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Fearful Symmetry

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  • Jacqueline Bundy
    Is it just me? Or is there very little info out about FEARFUL SYMMETRY, the next Deep Space Nine book. It s not yet listed at Amazon and I can t find the
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 30, 2007
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      Is it just me? Or is there very little info out about FEARFUL
      SYMMETRY, the next Deep Space Nine book.

      It's not yet listed at Amazon and I can't find the cover anywhere.

      Jackie
    • Allyn Gibson
      ... It was listed at Amazon for a while, but after the billiards game that was played with its release date--now, 2030, back to now--I think Pocket wisely
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 1, 2007
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        On Sunday, July 1, 2007, Jacqueline wrote:

        > Is it just me? Or is there very little info out about FEARFUL
        > SYMMETRY, the next Deep Space Nine book.

        > It's not yet listed at Amazon and I can't find the cover anywhere.

        It was listed at Amazon for a while, but after the billiards game that
        was played with its release date--now, 2030, back to now--I think
        Pocket wisely requested the listing be removed until they have a firm
        release date for the book.

        Perhaps at Shore Leave there will be an announcement when the book is
        back on the schedule. Back half of 2008, front half of 2009 would be
        my guess.

        Allyn http://www.allyngibson.net/

        To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or
        that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
        unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
        public.
        -- Theodore Roosevelt
      • whiteknightLA
        Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the cancellation of
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 6, 2007
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          Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
          there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
          cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
          book into the schedule to make up for it?

          Do the people at Pocket Books figure there's no harm in leaving us
          hanging for two years with no new material?
        • Keith R.A. DeCandido
          ... FEARFUL SYMMETRY hasn t been cancelled, it s been delayed, and it =is= the next book in the storyline, so another book couldn t just be plugged in, as FS
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 6, 2007
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            >Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
            >there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
            >cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
            >book into the schedule to make up for it?

            FEARFUL SYMMETRY hasn't been cancelled, it's been delayed, and it
            =is= the next book in the storyline, so another book couldn't just be
            "plugged in," as FS picks up right where WARPATH left off.





            Keith R.A. DeCandido
            keith@...
            www.DeCandido.net
            kradical.livejournal.com

            "Let's look death in the face and say, whatever, man."
            ---Hurley, LOST, 28 February 2007
          • whiteknightLA
            ... KRAD, I am a huge fan of your work, but not really looking to quibble over semantics. Books generally do not get delayed and suddenly have a new author
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 6, 2007
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              --- In startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com, "Keith R.A. DeCandido"
              <krad@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > >Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
              > >there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
              > >cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
              > >book into the schedule to make up for it?
              >
              > FEARFUL SYMMETRY hasn't been cancelled, it's been delayed, and it
              > =is= the next book in the storyline, so another book couldn't just be
              > "plugged in," as FS picks up right where WARPATH left off.

              KRAD, I am a huge fan of your work, but not really looking to quibble
              over semantics. Books generally do not get "delayed" and suddenly
              have a new author while being put off for an entire year. That's why
              I called it a cancellation -- it certainly was a cancellation of the
              previous author's work, apparently.

              But delayed, cancelled, whatever, the fact of the matter is, there's
              no furthering of the DS9 relaunch storyline for the entirety of 2007,
              and not since the release of "Warpath", nor will there be until this
              book comes out in the middle of '08, presuming it isn't yet again delayed.

              And really, given the fact that Fearful Symmetry was delayed twice
              (with no explanations) and then a third time with no explanations, how
              is it exactly that we are to believe this one won't also be "delayed" ?

              That's what I am complaining about, and as a fan who has bought every
              single one of the relaunch novels, some simple sort of explanation
              would be greatly appreciated. I have to say that I've had few reasons
              (none that I can think of presently!) to be upset with Pocket Books in
              the past, but this is an incredibly shoddy way to treat a group of
              fans, making them wait for a couple years while other series get
              multiple books within a year.
            • Ian McFarlane
              Oddly enough, this was probably the strongest protest against the delayed release of the WarPath follow up to date but quite honestly, I think that a lot of
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                Oddly enough, this was probably the strongest protest against the delayed
                release of the WarPath follow up to date but quite honestly, I think that a
                lot of people had exactly the same questions on their mind.

                Since the reasons were not being put forth willingly, my assumption was that
                it was soime type of creative conflict/dispute between writer and publishers
                that wasn't really too appropriate to air in a public forum. (In the absence
                of information, what else can one assume?)

                I was too afraid to push the issue but I think that most fans had a natural
                curiosity as it was a huge delay.

                Personally I think the 3rd book will come out but by then I think a lot of
                folks will have to whip out a copy of WarPath to refresh their memories. 8-)

                I should point out that DS9 certainly has been the last of the books to
                really catch up its timeline to the rest of the series for reasons that are
                not 100% clear but perhaps after 2008, that will change. Dunno.




                -----Original Message-----
                From: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of whiteknightLA
                Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 2:43 AM
                To: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry



                --- In startrekbooks@ <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com, "Keith R.A. DeCandido"
                <krad@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > >Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
                > >there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
                > >cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
                > >book into the schedule to make up for it?
                >
                > FEARFUL SYMMETRY hasn't been cancelled, it's been delayed, and it
                > =is= the next book in the storyline, so another book couldn't just be
                > "plugged in," as FS picks up right where WARPATH left off.

                KRAD, I am a huge fan of your work, but not really looking to quibble
                over semantics. Books generally do not get "delayed" and suddenly
                have a new author while being put off for an entire year. That's why
                I called it a cancellation -- it certainly was a cancellation of the
                previous author's work, apparently.

                But delayed, cancelled, whatever, the fact of the matter is, there's
                no furthering of the DS9 relaunch storyline for the entirety of 2007,
                and not since the release of "Warpath", nor will there be until this
                book comes out in the middle of '08, presuming it isn't yet again delayed.

                And really, given the fact that Fearful Symmetry was delayed twice
                (with no explanations) and then a third time with no explanations, how
                is it exactly that we are to believe this one won't also be "delayed" ?

                That's what I am complaining about, and as a fan who has bought every
                single one of the relaunch novels, some simple sort of explanation
                would be greatly appreciated. I have to say that I've had few reasons
                (none that I can think of presently!) to be upset with Pocket Books in
                the past, but this is an incredibly shoddy way to treat a group of
                fans, making them wait for a couple years while other series get
                multiple books within a year.







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Allyn Gibson
                ... Ian, the reasons for DS9 staying where it is chronologically and not moving arbitrarily to a post-Nemesis setting has been made -very- clear in the past.
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                  On Sunday, October 7, 2007, Ian wrote:

                  > I should point out that DS9 certainly has been the last of
                  > the books to really catch up its timeline to the rest of the
                  > series for reasons that are not 100% clear but perhaps after
                  > 2008, that will change. Dunno.

                  Ian, the reasons for DS9 staying where it is chronologically and not
                  moving arbitrarily to a post-Nemesis setting has been made -very-
                  clear in the past. The series is proceeding at its own pace, and not
                  being moved to a post-Nemesis setting just because it can. There's a
                  story that Marco wants to tell, and it's going to unfold at precisely
                  the pace it needs to.

                  COE is in its own timeframe, too, and I don't see anyone wanting to
                  move that to the post-Nemesis timeframe. :)

                  Allyn http://www.allyngibson.net/

                  In all the history of mankind, there will be only one generation
                  that will be first to explore the Solar System, one generation for
                  which, in childhood, the planets are distant and indistinct discs
                  moving through the night sky, and for which, in old age, the
                  planets are places, diverse new worlds in the course of
                  exploration.
                  -- Carl Sagan, The Cosmic Connection
                • menes@gothboy.com
                  We did get Jake & Nog in the Enterprise novel The Good That Men Do . It sounds like the new Destiny trilogy might feature some DS9 characters in the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                    We did get Jake & Nog in the Enterprise novel "The Good That Men Do". It
                    sounds like the new "Destiny" trilogy might feature some DS9 characters in
                    the post-Nemesis era, and I'm caustiously excited about that, but I'm
                    perfectly happy with DS9 going at it's own pace, and trailing behind the
                    others timeline wise. I mean, if they are constantly behind the others they
                    can reference everything that happens from the DS9 timeframe. Plus, I don't
                    want them to skip entire years of the series, just so they can catch up.
                    They aren't racing each other after all. The DS9 series is just filling in
                    gaps in the Trek puzzel in a slightly different section of Trek then Next
                    Gen or New Frontier.

                    Bald Jason
                    http://www.gothboy.com

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Ian McFarlane" <mackiedoo@...>
                    To: <startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:24 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry


                    > Oddly enough, this was probably the strongest protest against the delayed
                    > release of the WarPath follow up to date but quite honestly, I think that
                    > a
                    > lot of people had exactly the same questions on their mind.
                    >
                    > Since the reasons were not being put forth willingly, my assumption was
                    > that
                    > it was soime type of creative conflict/dispute between writer and
                    > publishers
                    > that wasn't really too appropriate to air in a public forum. (In the
                    > absence
                    > of information, what else can one assume?)
                    >
                    > I was too afraid to push the issue but I think that most fans had a
                    > natural
                    > curiosity as it was a huge delay.
                    >
                    > Personally I think the 3rd book will come out but by then I think a lot of
                    > folks will have to whip out a copy of WarPath to refresh their memories.
                    > 8-)
                    >
                    > I should point out that DS9 certainly has been the last of the books to
                    > really catch up its timeline to the rest of the series for reasons that
                    > are
                    > not 100% clear but perhaps after 2008, that will change. Dunno.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of whiteknightLA
                    > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 2:43 AM
                    > To: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In startrekbooks@ <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com, "Keith R.A. DeCandido"
                    > <krad@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> >Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
                    >> >there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
                    >> >cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
                    >> >book into the schedule to make up for it?
                    >>
                    >> FEARFUL SYMMETRY hasn't been cancelled, it's been delayed, and it
                    >> =is= the next book in the storyline, so another book couldn't just be
                    >> "plugged in," as FS picks up right where WARPATH left off.
                    >
                    > KRAD, I am a huge fan of your work, but not really looking to quibble
                    > over semantics. Books generally do not get "delayed" and suddenly
                    > have a new author while being put off for an entire year. That's why
                    > I called it a cancellation -- it certainly was a cancellation of the
                    > previous author's work, apparently.
                    >
                    > But delayed, cancelled, whatever, the fact of the matter is, there's
                    > no furthering of the DS9 relaunch storyline for the entirety of 2007,
                    > and not since the release of "Warpath", nor will there be until this
                    > book comes out in the middle of '08, presuming it isn't yet again delayed.
                    >
                    > And really, given the fact that Fearful Symmetry was delayed twice
                    > (with no explanations) and then a third time with no explanations, how
                    > is it exactly that we are to believe this one won't also be "delayed" ?
                    >
                    > That's what I am complaining about, and as a fan who has bought every
                    > single one of the relaunch novels, some simple sort of explanation
                    > would be greatly appreciated. I have to say that I've had few reasons
                    > (none that I can think of presently!) to be upset with Pocket Books in
                    > the past, but this is an incredibly shoddy way to treat a group of
                    > fans, making them wait for a couple years while other series get
                    > multiple books within a year.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • Ian McFarlane
                    I m not saying that they should skip entire years of the series to catch up. That wouldn t make any sense but it should be noted that DS9 puts out less books
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                      I'm not saying that they should skip entire years of the series to catch up.
                      That wouldn't make any sense but it should be noted that DS9 puts out less
                      books than the others so it definitely is taking a much longer time to catch
                      up.

                      Allyn the reason of "proceeding at its own pace" is kind of a non-reason I
                      think.

                      Doesn't mean that I'm not buying any more DS9 books or start some kind of
                      revolution. Just positing an opinion. I'm still one of the biggest fans of
                      the series there is.

                      There are DS9 books coming out next year (such as the stories set during the
                      Cardassian Occupation). I think that that is a period that should provide
                      very interesting stories as this period was referenced several times during
                      the TV series and we received glimpses into Kira's and Gul Dukat's pasts.

                      The DESTINY series is definitely a teaser and I find it curious that the
                      release date is set so close to the STAR TEK XI movie date. I know enough
                      about this group already to expect a dozen different people to say that the
                      release date has nothing to do with the film whatsoever and that may be but
                      it's still just one of those nice curiosities that I noticed.

                      I mac


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of menes@...
                      Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:28 AM
                      To: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry



                      We did get Jake & Nog in the Enterprise novel "The Good That Men Do". It
                      sounds like the new "Destiny" trilogy might feature some DS9 characters in
                      the post-Nemesis era, and I'm caustiously excited about that, but I'm
                      perfectly happy with DS9 going at it's own pace, and trailing behind the
                      others timeline wise. I mean, if they are constantly behind the others they
                      can reference everything that happens from the DS9 timeframe. Plus, I don't
                      want them to skip entire years of the series, just so they can catch up.
                      They aren't racing each other after all. The DS9 series is just filling in
                      gaps in the Trek puzzel in a slightly different section of Trek then Next
                      Gen or New Frontier.

                      Bald Jason
                      http://www.gothboy <http://www.gothboy.com> com

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Ian McFarlane" <mackiedoo@optonline
                      <mailto:mackiedoo%40optonline.net> .net>
                      To: <startrekbooks@ <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:24 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry

                      > Oddly enough, this was probably the strongest protest against the delayed
                      > release of the WarPath follow up to date but quite honestly, I think that
                      > a
                      > lot of people had exactly the same questions on their mind.
                      >
                      > Since the reasons were not being put forth willingly, my assumption was
                      > that
                      > it was soime type of creative conflict/dispute between writer and
                      > publishers
                      > that wasn't really too appropriate to air in a public forum. (In the
                      > absence
                      > of information, what else can one assume?)
                      >
                      > I was too afraid to push the issue but I think that most fans had a
                      > natural
                      > curiosity as it was a huge delay.
                      >
                      > Personally I think the 3rd book will come out but by then I think a lot of
                      > folks will have to whip out a copy of WarPath to refresh their memories.
                      > 8-)
                      >
                      > I should point out that DS9 certainly has been the last of the books to
                      > really catch up its timeline to the rest of the series for reasons that
                      > are
                      > not 100% clear but perhaps after 2008, that will change. Dunno.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: startrekbooks@ <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com [mailto:startrekbooks@
                      <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                      > On Behalf Of whiteknightLA
                      > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 2:43 AM
                      > To: startrekbooks@ <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In startrekbooks@ <mailto:startrekbooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com, "Keith R.A. DeCandido"
                      > <krad@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> >Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
                      >> >there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
                      >> >cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
                      >> >book into the schedule to make up for it?
                      >>
                      >> FEARFUL SYMMETRY hasn't been cancelled, it's been delayed, and it
                      >> =is= the next book in the storyline, so another book couldn't just be
                      >> "plugged in," as FS picks up right where WARPATH left off.
                      >
                      > KRAD, I am a huge fan of your work, but not really looking to quibble
                      > over semantics. Books generally do not get "delayed" and suddenly
                      > have a new author while being put off for an entire year. That's why
                      > I called it a cancellation -- it certainly was a cancellation of the
                      > previous author's work, apparently.
                      >
                      > But delayed, cancelled, whatever, the fact of the matter is, there's
                      > no furthering of the DS9 relaunch storyline for the entirety of 2007,
                      > and not since the release of "Warpath", nor will there be until this
                      > book comes out in the middle of '08, presuming it isn't yet again delayed.
                      >
                      > And really, given the fact that Fearful Symmetry was delayed twice
                      > (with no explanations) and then a third time with no explanations, how
                      > is it exactly that we are to believe this one won't also be "delayed" ?
                      >
                      > That's what I am complaining about, and as a fan who has bought every
                      > single one of the relaunch novels, some simple sort of explanation
                      > would be greatly appreciated. I have to say that I've had few reasons
                      > (none that I can think of presently!) to be upset with Pocket Books in
                      > the past, but this is an incredibly shoddy way to treat a group of
                      > fans, making them wait for a couple years while other series get
                      > multiple books within a year.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Allyn Gibson
                      ... Ian, you re proceeding on the assumption that -anyone- on the creative side of the books wants DS9 to catch up. The frequency of books has nothing to do
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Sunday, October 7, 2007, Ian wrote:

                        > I'm not saying that they should skip entire years of the
                        > series to catch up. That wouldn't make any sense but it
                        > should be noted that DS9 puts out less books than the
                        > others so it definitely is taking a much longer time to
                        > catch up.

                        Ian, you're proceeding on the assumption that -anyone- on the creative
                        side of the books wants DS9 to "catch up." The frequency of books has
                        nothing to do with the creative decision to tell the story of Deep
                        Space Nine at the pace that seems most appropriate for the story. If
                        one book spans a single day, and then the following book spans six
                        months, it's entirely because that was what the -story- demanded.
                        Imposing an arbitrary "speeding up" of the story's pace just to bring
                        DS9 in line chronologically with the post-Nemesis fiction (which is,
                        itself, not entirely concurrent in time) doesn't serve the
                        storytelling needs of DS9.

                        That said, I don't think a DS9 book set post-Nemesis would be entirely
                        a bad thing. It would set out a goalpost, show a bit more of the map,
                        and get people wondering after that if the next books after FEARFUL
                        SYMMETRY is where we'll discover how the situation in the Bajor Sector
                        got -so- frelled up. Maybe DESTINY will do something like this --
                        show a new situation in Bajor that's -way- off from where the DS9
                        fiction is now -- and maybe it won't. I can see solid creative
                        reasons either way, though.

                        But again, this doesn't mean I'd be in favor of moving DS9 to a
                        post-Nemesis timeframe. It wouldn't serve the books. It wouldn't
                        serve the fans. Some time jumps in fiction work. Others don't.
                        Moving DS9 would, I think, be one that wouldn't work.

                        > The DESTINY series is definitely a teaser and I find it
                        > curious that the release date is set so close to the STAR
                        > TREK XI movie date. I know enough about this group already
                        > to expect a dozen different people to say that the release
                        > date has nothing to do with the film whatsoever and that
                        > may be but it's still just one of those nice curiosities
                        > that I noticed.

                        Given lead times and such, I'm confident that DESTINY's release date
                        in the run-up to the film is a coinkydink that has absolutely nada to
                        do with the film. :)

                        Allyn http://www.allyngibson.net/

                        Musicologists who have spent much of the last few decades assuming
                        that the music of ex-Beatle Yoko Ono was too advanced for a public
                        notoriously unwilling or incapable of appreciating cutting-edge
                        music were relieved to learn yesterday that Ms. Ono's music was not
                        actually ahead of its time -- it was merely bad. The results of a
                        study commissioned by the Berklee College of Music were released,
                        and should forever lay to rest the idea that Ms. Ono's compositions
                        were anything more than pure, unadulterated caterwauling.
                        -- "Now Official: Yoko Ono's Music Wasn't Ahead of Its Time"
                        The Daily Probe, March 19, 2001
                      • menes@gothboy.com
                        I m of too minds about your post. I think. lol. Maybe three. I feel your pain; I really do. But you make it sound like they owe us a book and I don t
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I'm of too minds about your post. I think. lol. Maybe three.

                          I feel your pain; I really do. But you make it sound like they owe us a
                          book and I don't believe that they do Each Trek book, no matter how
                          fantastic, or how dreary, is a gift to the fans. It's not something that's
                          required. It's not something 'they' have to give us. And yeah, we do have
                          to pay for them, but a lot of time and money is spent to get those stories
                          to us. And if they mess up once in awhile, that's actually quite rare, and
                          understandable. And disappointment is understandable. But I think we
                          should all be grateful that we even have new Star Trek stories published
                          every month of every year...because there could come a time when we don't.

                          DS9 is my favorite Trek. The DS9 Relaunch has been my favorite Trek book
                          series. I've been disappointed in recent years myself. First by the
                          reduction in the number of Trek novels released in a year, which has all
                          kinds of negative effects on my enjoyment of the books. But when that
                          happened, we had all kinds of official word on why it was happening, and
                          that helped soften the blow a bit. And I think you make an interesting
                          point, or at least scratched the surface of one that I hadn't considered.
                          While Pocket or any other Trek player doesn't owe us an apology or an
                          explanation or anything at all really - perhaps if there had been something
                          like that, it could have circumvented some of the confusion and disappointed
                          that some of the fans have felt in relation to this non appearance of
                          'Fearful Symmetry' or a replacement novel. Just an official word that
                          everything was ok, and their sorry for the delay, might have made us all
                          feel a bit better.

                          Speaking of which - I haven't seen Marco on here in ages! I hope he's ok.
                          Can anybody confirm he's alright? I mean...he used to post rather
                          frequently.

                          I don't believe for a minute that the folks at Pocket planned to not give
                          us a new chapter this year, or that they didn't try to bring us more.
                          Something obviously went wrong, and the original author for Fearful Symmetry
                          was dropped for a new one. I don't think they can release the details on
                          why that happened, and I'm kind of glad about that because to do so would
                          seem kind of tacky. Also, the DS9 series is complex, and I'd rather they
                          take their time with it, and keep us waiting, than rush something out and
                          screw it up. I do hope that when Fearful Symmetry finally arrives it's
                          worth all the fuss, and that new novels in the series have been planned and
                          are on their way, with maybe a slightly increased time table? That would be
                          great!

                          And of course it's not all gloom & doom guys. We did have the Mirror
                          Universe books this year, which are tied into the Relaunch, + Jake & Nog
                          were in the latest Enterprise novel. And next year we have Fearful Symmetry
                          (hopefully), along with the 3 Occupation books, a "Blood Oath" prequel in
                          the new Sulu novel, a Dominion War era Next Gen/DS9 story in the Slings &
                          Arrows e-book series, a Mirror Universe anthology, and what sounds like some
                          interesting parts to play in the 'Destiny' trilogy. That's quite a bit of
                          DS9 coming up, with what sounds like at least 2 post Warpath stories. Yay!
                          ;-0)

                          Bald Jason

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "whiteknightLA" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                          To: <startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 2:09 AM
                          Subject: [Star Trek Books] Fearful Symmetry



                          Has there really been absolutely no attempt at an explanation for why
                          there are going to be 0 new DS9 relaunch novels this year, after the
                          cancellation of Fearful Symmetry and the failure to plug in a new DS9
                          book into the schedule to make up for it?

                          Do the people at Pocket Books figure there's no harm in leaving us
                          hanging for two years with no new material?
                        • Ian McFarlane
                          Allyn, The reason why posts like this happen is when information on delays is sparse or incomplete. (I can hear about 50 more people prepare to yell at me
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                            Allyn,

                            The reason why posts like this happen is when information on delays is
                            sparse or incomplete. (I can hear about 50 more people prepare to yell at me
                            now).
                            I had definitely adjusted to the 1 book per year but the lack of 1 DS9 book
                            next year was disappointing not just to me but to other fans.

                            On the plus side there'll be 5 next year so I guess every cloud has a silver
                            lining. ;-> Also, such e-mails are starting to stir up more life in this
                            group again.

                            All Good things... I guess. All Good Things...

                            Query: "You said something about things in the Bajor Sector getting frelled
                            up. Was there something in Articles Of The Federation about such a
                            situation?"




                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Allyn Gibson
                            Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:57 AM
                            To: startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Star Trek Books] Re: Fearful Symmetry



                            On Sunday, October 7, 2007, Ian wrote:

                            > I'm not saying that they should skip entire years of the
                            > series to catch up. That wouldn't make any sense but it
                            > should be noted that DS9 puts out less books than the
                            > others so it definitely is taking a much longer time to
                            > catch up.

                            Ian, you're proceeding on the assumption that -anyone- on the creative
                            side of the books wants DS9 to "catch up." The frequency of books has
                            nothing to do with the creative decision to tell the story of Deep
                            Space Nine at the pace that seems most appropriate for the story. If
                            one book spans a single day, and then the following book spans six
                            months, it's entirely because that was what the -story- demanded.
                            Imposing an arbitrary "speeding up" of the story's pace just to bring
                            DS9 in line chronologically with the post-Nemesis fiction (which is,
                            itself, not entirely concurrent in time) doesn't serve the
                            storytelling needs of DS9.

                            That said, I don't think a DS9 book set post-Nemesis would be entirely
                            a bad thing. It would set out a goalpost, show a bit more of the map,
                            and get people wondering after that if the next books after FEARFUL
                            SYMMETRY is where we'll discover how the situation in the Bajor Sector
                            got -so- frelled up. Maybe DESTINY will do something like this --
                            show a new situation in Bajor that's -way- off from where the DS9
                            fiction is now -- and maybe it won't. I can see solid creative
                            reasons either way, though.

                            But again, this doesn't mean I'd be in favor of moving DS9 to a
                            post-Nemesis timeframe. It wouldn't serve the books. It wouldn't
                            serve the fans. Some time jumps in fiction work. Others don't.
                            Moving DS9 would, I think, be one that wouldn't work.

                            > The DESTINY series is definitely a teaser and I find it
                            > curious that the release date is set so close to the STAR
                            > TREK XI movie date. I know enough about this group already
                            > to expect a dozen different people to say that the release
                            > date has nothing to do with the film whatsoever and that
                            > may be but it's still just one of those nice curiosities
                            > that I noticed.

                            Given lead times and such, I'm confident that DESTINY's release date
                            in the run-up to the film is a coinkydink that has absolutely nada to
                            do with the film. :)

                            Allyn http://www.allyngib <http://www.allyngibson.net/> son.net/

                            Musicologists who have spent much of the last few decades assuming
                            that the music of ex-Beatle Yoko Ono was too advanced for a public
                            notoriously unwilling or incapable of appreciating cutting-edge
                            music were relieved to learn yesterday that Ms. Ono's music was not
                            actually ahead of its time -- it was merely bad. The results of a
                            study commissioned by the Berklee College of Music were released,
                            and should forever lay to rest the idea that Ms. Ono's compositions
                            were anything more than pure, unadulterated caterwauling.
                            -- "Now Official: Yoko Ono's Music Wasn't Ahead of Its Time"
                            The Daily Probe, March 19, 2001







                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Allyn Gibson
                            Ian, two things... ... No, that s fine. I understand the impulse myself. I work in publishing, and more information is always better. :) However, publishers
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                              Ian, two things...

                              > The reason why posts like this happen is when information on
                              > delays is sparse or incomplete.

                              No, that's fine. I understand the impulse myself. I work in
                              publishing, and more information is always better. :)

                              However, publishers aren't under -any- obligation to give their
                              readers information on things like delays and cancellations.

                              Sometimes we know the story on a cancellation or a rewrite, because
                              the writer has said something publicly about the situation. More
                              often than not, we don't know. Some projects just fall through,
                              through no fault of their own. And there's really nothing more that
                              needs to be said.

                              So, yes, maybe it's not ideal that the information on the FEARFUL
                              SYMMETRY delay is what it is from the fan's perspective, but it
                              doesn't -need- to me any more thorough than it has been. It's what it
                              is.

                              The other thing:

                              > Query: "You said something about things in the Bajor Sector
                              > getting frelled up. Was there something in Articles Of The
                              > Federation about such a situation?"

                              No, I was making up an extreme example. I actually don't recall a
                              reference to Bajor or the station in ARTICLES. I'm not saying there
                              wasn't one; it's just been too long since I've read it. :)

                              Allyn http://www.allyngibson.net/

                              The idea of a politician being able to tell the difference between
                              history and fiction is grotesque in the extreme, they cannot tell a
                              drama from a jar of pickled walnuts or a work of art from a moist
                              lemon-scented cleansing square; the thought that they can be
                              trusted to do so is absurd, preposterous and hideous.
                              -- Stephen Fry, "Paperweight"
                            • whiteknightLA
                              Obligation? No. But not wanting to tick off your stranded readers is usually a VERY good idea. You don t have to work in publishing to know that. I d say,
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 7, 2007
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                                Obligation? No.

                                But not wanting to tick off your stranded readers is usually a VERY
                                good idea. You don't have to work in publishing to know that.

                                I'd say, given market conditions, there is definitely a need to do
                                what you can to keep your user base. A lot of authors have a 2-3 year
                                gap between books, but that's because only 1 author has written the
                                entire series. When you have multiple authors in a series, a 2-3 year
                                gap makes no sense.

                                The fact that not even a token attempt was made to address the
                                situation leads me to believe that the editors at Pocket have become
                                convinced that we will simply wait around for as long as they desire,
                                be happy with as few books as they choose to put out, and that is
                                that. Easy money.

                                I don't know about you, but to me that seems like the way you'd treat
                                mindless sheep, not loyal and devoted fans.

                                So, obligation? Nope, not at all. But if you want to retain any fans,
                                you need to treat them better than zeroes.


                                --- In startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com, Allyn Gibson <allyn@...> wrote:

                                However, publishers aren't under -any- obligation to give their
                                readers information on things like delays and cancellations.

                                So, yes, maybe it's not ideal that the information on the FEARFUL
                                SYMMETRY delay is what it is from the fan's perspective, but it
                                doesn't -need- to me any more thorough than it has been.
                              • Allyn Gibson
                                ... Two things. One. There was a token attempt. The announcements that FEARFUL SYMMETRY was being moved, first to August 07, then to next year with a
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                  On Sunday, October 7, 2007, whiteknightLA wrote:

                                  > The fact that not even a token attempt was made to address the
                                  > situation leads me to believe that the editors at Pocket have
                                  > become convinced that we will simply wait around for as long as
                                  > they desire, be happy with as few books as they choose to put out,
                                  > and that is that. Easy money.

                                  Two things.

                                  One. There was a "token attempt." The announcements that FEARFUL
                                  SYMMETRY was being moved, first to August '07, then to next year with
                                  a different author, is a "token attempt." Why do I say that? Because
                                  it's -all that needs to be said-.

                                  Two. The only readers who are aware that there's -even- a delay in
                                  the book are the ones clued into Trek online fandom, which is a -very-
                                  small percentage of the number of people who actually read the books.

                                  Yes, White Knight, to you it may look like a mountain, but that's only
                                  because you're closer to it. In reality, it's a molehill and the vast
                                  majority of readers aren't even aware that it's there.

                                  Allyn http://www.allyngibson.net/

                                  Defeating alien menaces is what Tiggers do best.
                                  -- Peter David, The TARDIS at Pooh Corner
                                • whiteknightLA
                                  You seem to share the same general low opinion of readers that I have been describing. Perhaps you should inquire about job openings at Pocket Books. You
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                    You seem to share the same general low opinion of readers that I have
                                    been describing. Perhaps you should inquire about job openings at
                                    Pocket Books. You might fit right in.

                                    Thankfully, your stating that there's not an issue here doesn't make
                                    it so. Your attempts to negate other peoples' feelings,
                                    unfortunately, are also fruitless.

                                    People feel gypped out of a book, because they have been, and we don't
                                    know why. Now we're going to have to wait for a very long time for
                                    the next one -- no one can say exactly how long -- and that's the
                                    heart of the matter.

                                    -- WK


                                    --- In startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com, Allyn Gibson <allyn@...> wrote:

                                    Why do I say that? Because it's -all that needs to be said-.
                                  • Geoff Trowbridge
                                    ... have ... Well, from the start, you came in here expressing a general low opinion of the Pocket Books editorial staff, without having any justification for
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                      --- In startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com, whiteknightLA <no_reply@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > You seem to share the same general low opinion of readers that I
                                      have
                                      > been describing. Perhaps you should inquire about job openings at
                                      > Pocket Books. You might fit right in.


                                      Well, from the start, you came in here expressing a general low
                                      opinion of the Pocket Books editorial staff, without having any
                                      justification for that opinion, except for the fact that they hadn't
                                      explained the delay of FEARFUL SYMMETRY to your personal
                                      satisfaction. When you begin a conversation that way, the natural
                                      tendency is for people to respond in kind.


                                      > Thankfully, your stating that there's not an issue here doesn't make
                                      > it so. Your attempts to negate other peoples' feelings,
                                      > unfortunately, are also fruitless.


                                      Nobody is trivializing your feelings, which are obviously very
                                      strong. All we're saying is that, despite all of your insistence to
                                      the contrary, THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO BE SAID. For whatever reason,
                                      the previous author wasn't able to produce the manuscript they'd
                                      contracted for. The reasons are obviously private. I'm a writer
                                      under contract with Pocket, and I don't know the reason. Am I
                                      curious? Sure. But I'm not going to demand access to information
                                      that, frankly, is none of my business.

                                      The Pocket staff did the only thing that they could do, which was to
                                      bring in another author to write the story. And the story will be
                                      written. What more would you have them do? This wasn't some grand
                                      conspiracy against the readers. Stuff happens. Be glad that they're
                                      taking the time to get this right.


                                      > People feel gypped out of a book, because they have been, and we
                                      don't
                                      > know why. Now we're going to have to wait for a very long time for
                                      > the next one -- no one can say exactly how long -- and that's the
                                      > heart of the matter.


                                      Er... I can tell you exactly how long. After all, the book DOES have
                                      a new release date. It's June 24, 2008:

                                      http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&pid=619060

                                      If you had simply asked that, rather than storming in with guns a-
                                      blazing demanding information, and treating the lack of such
                                      information as a personal affront, we might have had a much more
                                      productive conversation going here.

                                      Cheers,
                                      Geoff
                                    • Steve Roby
                                      ... Well, we can guess how high your opinion of Pocket Books employees is, can t we? After all, they ve been producing a series you like so much you can t wait
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                        On 10/8/07, whiteknightLA <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > You seem to share the same general low opinion of readers that I have
                                        > been describing. Perhaps you should inquire about job openings at
                                        > Pocket Books. You might fit right in.

                                        Well, we can guess how high your opinion of Pocket Books employees is,
                                        can't we? After all, they've been producing a series you like so much
                                        you can't wait for the next book. Those *bastards.*

                                        > People feel gypped out of a book, because they have been,

                                        Gypped? Had you already paid for yours? There is a Star Trek book I
                                        paid for two years ago that I'm still waiting for, but it's not a
                                        Pocket book (it's Writing Sarek by Peter Beagle, to be published by
                                        Conlan Press). I haven't yet ruled out the possibility that I'll
                                        actually get something for my money in that case, so I may not have
                                        been ripped off there, either.

                                        > and we don't
                                        > know why. Now we're going to have to wait for a very long time for
                                        > the next one -- no one can say exactly how long -- and that's the
                                        > heart of the matter.

                                        We know one writer was hired to write the book. We know it was
                                        delayed. We know another writer was hired to write the book in place
                                        of the first writer, which suggests they have to start from scratch.
                                        We know the book's been rescheduled. What more, exactly, do you want
                                        to know? Given that this involves business contracts to which we are
                                        not privy, how much do you think you should know?

                                        I mean, hell, I'm just another fanboy, and I want a lot more DS9 than
                                        we've been getting, and I'm not happy about this either. But this
                                        isn't exactly The Last Dangerous Visions we're talking about. Fearful
                                        Symmetry will come out and it won't take decades.

                                        On the other hand, maybe I can face this with such equanimity because
                                        I know no one did this with the intent of pissing me off. I know this
                                        isn't about me. I'm inclined to think it isn't about you, either. Not
                                        this time, anyway.

                                        Steve
                                      • cptchadwick
                                        Okay..so this is the next DS9 book after Warpath?.. or exactly when does this book take place... just bought it today and gonna read it after I finish
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 27, 2008
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                                          Okay..so this is the next DS9 book after Warpath?.. or exactly when
                                          does this book take place... just bought it today and gonna read it
                                          after I finish rereading books 1 and 2 of the Left Hand of
                                          Destiny....after I finished rereading In the Name of Honor.....all
                                          three excellent books....kinda on a klingon kick right now lol...gonna
                                          reread all the I.K.S. Gorkon's(which were also excellent books..) after
                                          Fearful Symmetry....
                                        • Keith R.A. DeCandido
                                          ... Yes. It picks up where WARPATH left off. ... Excellent choice... ;) Keith R.A. DeCandido keith@decandido.net www.DeCandido.net kradical.livejournal.com
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 27, 2008
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                                            >Okay..so this is the next DS9 book after Warpath?..

                                            Yes. It picks up where WARPATH left off.


                                            >just bought it today and gonna read it
                                            >after I finish rereading books 1 and 2 of the Left Hand of
                                            >Destiny....after I finished rereading In the Name of Honor.....all
                                            >three excellent books....kinda on a klingon kick right now lol...gonna
                                            >reread all the I.K.S. Gorkon's(which were also excellent books..) after
                                            >Fearful Symmetry....

                                            Excellent choice... ;)



                                            Keith R.A. DeCandido
                                            keith@...
                                            www.DeCandido.net
                                            kradical.livejournal.com

                                            "Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just God when he's drunk"
                                            ---Tom Waits, "Heartattack and Vine"
                                          • cptchadwick
                                            Thanks krad.... nice to have someone on the inside...lol.... ... lol...gonna ... after ... drunk
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                                              Thanks krad.... nice to have someone on the inside...lol....


                                              --- In startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com, "Keith R.A. DeCandido"
                                              <krad@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >Okay..so this is the next DS9 book after Warpath?..
                                              >
                                              > Yes. It picks up where WARPATH left off.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >just bought it today and gonna read it
                                              > >after I finish rereading books 1 and 2 of the Left Hand of
                                              > >Destiny....after I finished rereading In the Name of Honor.....all
                                              > >three excellent books....kinda on a klingon kick right now
                                              lol...gonna
                                              > >reread all the I.K.S. Gorkon's(which were also excellent books..)
                                              after
                                              > >Fearful Symmetry....
                                              >
                                              > Excellent choice... ;)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Keith R.A. DeCandido
                                              > keith@...
                                              > www.DeCandido.net
                                              > kradical.livejournal.com
                                              >
                                              > "Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just God when he's
                                              drunk"
                                              > ---Tom Waits, "Heartattack and Vine"
                                              >
                                            • Michelle Gagner
                                              I m currently reading and enjoying Q and A after having finished the Terok Nor series. Just picked up Warpath and Fearful Symmetry and am planning to get
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                                                I'm currently reading and enjoying "Q and A" after having finished
                                                the Terok Nor series. Just picked up Warpath and Fearful Symmetry
                                                and am planning to get Unity. I never realized how good the DS9
                                                books are! Looking forward to reading more in the future.

                                                Michelle Gagner


                                                --- In startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com, "Keith R.A. DeCandido"
                                                <krad@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >Okay..so this is the next DS9 book after Warpath?..
                                                >
                                                > Yes. It picks up where WARPATH left off.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > >just bought it today and gonna read it
                                                > >after I finish rereading books 1 and 2 of the Left Hand of
                                                > >Destiny....after I finished rereading In the Name of Honor.....all
                                                > >three excellent books....kinda on a klingon kick right now
                                                lol...gonna
                                                > >reread all the I.K.S. Gorkon's(which were also excellent books..)
                                                after
                                                > >Fearful Symmetry....
                                                >
                                                > Excellent choice... ;)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Keith R.A. DeCandido
                                                > keith@...
                                                > www.DeCandido.net
                                                > kradical.livejournal.com
                                                >
                                                > "Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just God when he's
                                                drunk"
                                                > ---Tom Waits, "Heartattack and Vine"
                                                >
                                              • trevor thurlow
                                                Fearful Symmetry takes place after the Deep Space Nine novel Warpath . Symmetry was written in the old 1960 s Ace Double book printing where half way through
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Oct 5, 2008
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                                                  Fearful Symmetry takes place after the Deep Space Nine novel "Warpath". Symmetry was written in the old 1960's Ace Double book printing where half way through the book you had to "flip" the book over to read the rest of the story. The first part of Symmetry picks up where "Warpath" left off, while the other part is a Mirror Universe story about a Cardassian agent that was mentioned in a Season 2 episode but not seen (in the episode Kira was kidnapped by the Cardassians inorder to see if a High-Ranking Cardassian was still loyal to the Union, and she was surgically altered to resemble a Cardassian). Anyway, that unseen agent is alive in the Mirror Universe.

                                                  Trevor
                                                  1. fearfull symmerty> Posted by: "edward c aselman 3" casele33@... casele33> Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 8:11 am ((PDT))> > i have 2 questions about this book. what is the plot. theree is no > summary of the plot oin the back of the book. 2 is the next book in the > story out or not. what is the nmre, author of it. thank you
                                                  _________________________________________________________________



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • menes@gothboy.com
                                                  ... From: trevor thurlow To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:59 PM Subject: [Star Trek Books] RE:
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Oct 5, 2008
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                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "trevor thurlow" <tomswift2002@...>
                                                    To: <startrekbooks@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:59 PM
                                                    Subject: [Star Trek Books] RE: Fearful Symmetry


                                                    >
                                                    > the other part is a Mirror Universe story about a Cardassian agent that
                                                    > was mentioned in a Season 2 episode but not seen (in the episode Kira was
                                                    > kidnapped by >the Cardassians inorder to see if a High-Ranking Cardassian
                                                    > was still loyal to the Union, and she was surgically altered to resemble a
                                                    > Cardassian). Anyway, that >unseen agent is alive in the Mirror Universe.

                                                    It was actually a 3rd Season DS9 episode, called "Second Skin", which was
                                                    followed up on in Season 5's "Ties of Blood and Water". ;-0)
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