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Re: Klingon heads

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  • Yehuda N. Falk
    ... Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or was it a mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly complicated the whole
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 30, 2006
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      Captjim wrote:

      > It had to be the second thing since Kor, Kang, and Koloth
      > showed up at DS9 and they had ridges there. They were originally
      > smooth-heads when they played in TOS.

      Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or was it a
      mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly complicated
      the whole ridges problem.)

      --
      Yehuda N. Falk
      Department of English, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
      Mt. Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel
      msyfalk@...
      Personal Web Site http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msyfalk/
      Departmental Web Site http://atar.mscc.huji.ac.il/~english/
    • Dennis Evans
      ... As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened, Phlox tells them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the future. I would
      Message 2 of 13 , May 1, 2006
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        Yehuda N. Falk wrote:

        >Captjim wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>It had to be the second thing since Kor, Kang, and Koloth
        >>showed up at DS9 and they had ridges there. They were originally
        >>smooth-heads when they played in TOS.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or was it a
        >mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly complicated
        >the whole ridges problem.)
        >
        >
        >
        As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened, Phlox tells
        them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the future. I
        would presume that tht is what happened.

        Dennis
      • Yehuda N. Falk
        ... Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I m wondering, when they put TNG makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do it thinking
        Message 3 of 13 , May 2, 2006
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          I wrote:

          > Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or was it a
          > mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly complicated
          > the whole ridges problem.)

          and Dennis Evans responded:

          > As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened, Phlox tells
          > them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the future. I
          > would presume that tht is what happened.

          Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I'm wondering, when they put TNG
          makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do it
          thinking "their ridges would have grown back by now" or "Hmm, Klingons.
          Let's put Klingon makeup on them" without thinking that these are TOS
          Klingons.
          --
          Yehuda N. Falk
          Department of English, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
          Mt. Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel
          msyfalk@...
          Personal Web Site http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msyfalk/
          Departmental Web Site http://atar.mscc.huji.ac.il/~english/

          "And because, in all the galaxy, they had found nothing more precious
          than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They became
          farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes they
          reaped."
          --Arthur C. Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey
        • captjim@pacbell.net
          There s just no way they could have been ignorant of the fact that these were TOS Klingons. They had to have done it deliberately.
          Message 4 of 13 , May 2, 2006
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            There's just no way they could have been ignorant of the fact that
            these were TOS Klingons. They had to have done it deliberately.

            "Yehuda N. Falk" wrote:
            >
            > I wrote:
            >
            > > Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or was it a
            > > mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly complicated
            > > the whole ridges problem.)
            >
            > and Dennis Evans responded:
            >
            > > As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened, Phlox tells
            > > them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the future. I
            > > would presume that tht is what happened.
            >
            > Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I'm wondering, when they put TNG
            > makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do it
            > thinking "their ridges would have grown back by now" or "Hmm, Klingons.
            > Let's put Klingon makeup on them" without thinking that these are TOS
            > Klingons.
            > --
            > Yehuda N. Falk
            > Department of English, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
            > Mt. Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel
            > msyfalk@...
            > Personal Web Site http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msyfalk/
            > Departmental Web Site http://atar.mscc.huji.ac.il/~english/
            >
            > "And because, in all the galaxy, they had found nothing more precious
            > than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They became
            > farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes they
            > reaped."
            > --Arthur C. Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey
            >
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          • The Sweetest
            ... [ATA]They did it knowinly. I recall an interview with Berman or Braga talking about the episode and the fact that they were bringing, not only the original
            Message 5 of 13 , May 3, 2006
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              >
              > Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I'm wondering, when they put TNG
              > makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do it
              > thinking "their ridges would have grown back by now" or "Hmm, Klingons.
              > Let's put Klingon makeup on them" without thinking that these are TOS
              > Klingons.
              > --
              > Yehuda N. Falk


              [ATA]They did it knowinly. I recall an interview with Berman or Braga
              talking about the episode and the fact that they were bringing, not
              only the original characters but more important the original actors.
              So it doesn't seem it was something done without thinking about TOS.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tim Stubbs
              Hi Startrekkers, I wrote a possible explanation here a few years ago. It involved a Romulan biogenic weapon which physically debilitated and weakened anyone
              Message 6 of 13 , May 4, 2006
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                Hi Startrekkers,

                I wrote a possible explanation here a few years ago. It involved a
                Romulan biogenic weapon which physically debilitated and weakened
                anyone exposed to it.

                The Klingons, who were in league with the Romulans at the time in a
                shared-technology partnership, were seen by the paranoid Romulans as
                a potential threat to their dominance. The Klingons were 'suckered'
                into a situation where Kronos was irradiated by the weapon ("Dohhh!")
                and this this event gave the Romulans the opportunity to ditch their
                initially debilitated and weakened 'partners' without much of a
                fight.

                The effects were not created at a DNA level, so the human-like
                outward appearance and the weakening effects wore off over time.

                This would explain -
                Why the TOS Klingons are 'more human-looking and physically weaker'
                Why the Klingons hate the 'treacherous' Romulans
                Why the Klingons are embarrased to speak about this event.

                I think Manny Coto's version of 'the ridges issue' is better. I think
                the link to the children of Khan was inspired.

                I think Manny's version covers all the questions: like why Kahless's
                clone in TNG had ridges, why Kang, Kor and Koloth had 'regained'
                their ridges in DS9, etc...

                I'm sure Manny would have had an equally stunning resolution to the
                question about why the Klingon/Romulan Alliance broke down... had he
                been given the chance to cover the Romulan War.


                eyes open for Manny Coto's name in the credits of ST Xl.

                tim



                --- In star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com, "captjim@..." <captjim@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > There's just no way they could have been ignorant of the fact that
                > these were TOS Klingons. They had to have done it deliberately.
                >
                > "Yehuda N. Falk" wrote:
                > >
                > > I wrote:
                > >
                > > > Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or
                was it a
                > > > mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly
                complicated
                > > > the whole ridges problem.)
                > >
                > > and Dennis Evans responded:
                > >
                > > > As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened,
                Phlox tells
                > > > them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the
                future. I
                > > > would presume that tht is what happened.
                > >
                > > Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I'm wondering, when they
                put TNG
                > > makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do
                it
                > > thinking "their ridges would have grown back by now" or "Hmm,
                Klingons.
                > > Let's put Klingon makeup on them" without thinking that these are
                TOS
                > > Klingons.
                > > --
                > > Yehuda N. Falk
                > > Department of English, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
                > > Mt. Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel
                > > msyfalk@...
                > > Personal Web Site http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msyfalk/
                > > Departmental Web Site
                http://atar.mscc.huji.ac.il/~english/
                > >
                > > "And because, in all the galaxy, they had found nothing more
                precious
                > > than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They
                became
                > > farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes
                they
                > > reaped."
                > > --Arthur C. Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey
              • Trelane
                ... DITTO! Trelane I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -- Douglas Adams ... From: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 13 , May 4, 2006
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                  Tim Stubbs said:

                  >>I think Manny Coto's version of 'the ridges issue' . . .
                  >>the link to the children of Khan was inspired.

                  DITTO!

                  Trelane

                  "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
                  -- Douglas Adams



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim Stubbs
                  Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:18 AM
                  To: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [ST1-LCN] Re: Klingon heads


                  Hi Startrekkers,

                  I wrote a possible explanation here a few years ago. It involved a
                  Romulan biogenic weapon which physically debilitated and weakened
                  anyone exposed to it.

                  The Klingons, who were in league with the Romulans at the time in a
                  shared-technology partnership, were seen by the paranoid Romulans as
                  a potential threat to their dominance. The Klingons were 'suckered'
                  into a situation where Kronos was irradiated by the weapon ("Dohhh!")
                  and this this event gave the Romulans the opportunity to ditch their
                  initially debilitated and weakened 'partners' without much of a
                  fight.

                  The effects were not created at a DNA level, so the human-like
                  outward appearance and the weakening effects wore off over time.

                  This would explain -
                  Why the TOS Klingons are 'more human-looking and physically weaker'
                  Why the Klingons hate the 'treacherous' Romulans
                  Why the Klingons are embarrased to speak about this event.

                  I think Manny Coto's version of 'the ridges issue' is better. I think
                  the link to the children of Khan was inspired.

                  I think Manny's version covers all the questions: like why Kahless's
                  clone in TNG had ridges, why Kang, Kor and Koloth had 'regained'
                  their ridges in DS9, etc...

                  I'm sure Manny would have had an equally stunning resolution to the
                  question about why the Klingon/Romulan Alliance broke down... had he
                  been given the chance to cover the Romulan War.


                  eyes open for Manny Coto's name in the credits of ST Xl.

                  tim



                  --- In star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com, "captjim@..." <captjim@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > There's just no way they could have been ignorant of the fact that
                  > these were TOS Klingons. They had to have done it deliberately.
                  >
                  > "Yehuda N. Falk" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or
                  was it a
                  > > > mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly
                  complicated
                  > > > the whole ridges problem.)
                  > >
                  > > and Dennis Evans responded:
                  > >
                  > > > As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened,
                  Phlox tells
                  > > > them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the
                  future. I
                  > > > would presume that tht is what happened.
                  > >
                  > > Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I'm wondering, when they
                  put TNG
                  > > makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do
                  it
                  > > thinking "their ridges would have grown back by now" or "Hmm,
                  Klingons.
                  > > Let's put Klingon makeup on them" without thinking that these are
                  TOS
                  > > Klingons.
                  > > --
                  > > Yehuda N. Falk
                  > > Department of English, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
                  > > Mt. Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel
                  > > msyfalk@...
                  > > Personal Web Site http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msyfalk/
                  > > Departmental Web Site
                  http://atar.mscc.huji.ac.il/~english/
                  > >
                  > > "And because, in all the galaxy, they had found nothing more
                  precious
                  > > than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They
                  became
                  > > farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes
                  they
                  > > reaped."
                  > > --Arthur C. Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey







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                • The Sweetest
                  ... [ATA]But then again, the Cotto s version as it happened with all the genetic explanations, seemed a little too complicated, too much elaborated and kind of
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 4, 2006
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                    >
                    > I wrote a possible explanation here a few years ago. It involved a
                    > Romulan biogenic weapon which physically debilitated and weakened
                    > anyone exposed to it.
                    > The effects were not created at a DNA level, so the human-like
                    > outward appearance and the weakening effects wore off over time.
                    >
                    > This would explain -
                    > Why the TOS Klingons are 'more human-looking and physically weaker'
                    > Why the Klingons hate the 'treacherous' Romulans
                    > Why the Klingons are embarrased to speak about this event.
                    >
                    > I think Manny Coto's version of 'the ridges issue' is better. I think
                    > the link to the children of Khan was inspired.
                    >

                    [ATA]But then again, the Cotto's version as it happened with all the genetic
                    explanations, seemed a little too complicated, too much elaborated and kind
                    of cumnbersome. Although the Khan connection was nicely done and don't
                    forget the Soong connection also.

                    The theory I've always liked was simple and covered everything without too
                    many strings attached and more credible in the end. And, until the ENT
                    apparent explanation, the only one that was sustained on actual episodes.
                    The Klingons at the forefornt of the defense of the empire became an elite,
                    and wanted to be so distinctive that they decide to mark themselves somehow.
                    Not different than today's special forces all around the world that have a
                    distinctive uniform or body marking, tattoo whatever. Of course we are
                    talking klingons, so a tattoo won't be enough. There go the ridges. You
                    wanted to be a klingon of the elite forces, go a get rid of the ridges. At
                    some point after the TOS era, that elite force did something really
                    embarrasing that the Klingons didn't like to dicuss it openly specially with
                    outsiders. In this case, the emabarrsing thing very well could have been the
                    Great Tribble Hunt, that certainly would've been a stain in the honor of the
                    empire. So embarrasing would've been the episode that every member of
                    the elite force would've got their ridge back. And since we know, as Darvin
                    demostrated, that the ridges could be manipulated without resorting to any
                    fancy dna or germ process, getting rid of the ridges and getting them back
                    wouldn't have been a problem.

                    take care lad
                    atanasio


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jeff kirk
                    How come no one ever mentions that the Romulans looked like Vulcans (they were offshoots of the same race) but never mentions in 80 some odd years how they get
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 13, 2006
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                      How come no one ever mentions that the Romulans looked like Vulcans (they were offshoots of the same race) but never mentions in 80 some odd years how they get brow ridges? And why does every Romulan have Spock hair? I mean there citys look kinda dingy and dim in next Gen, bet Really. Actually all the vulcans have Spock hair to, even the women. Anyone rememner T'Pau and T'Pring? Now THAT was hair!

                      Trelane <ltrelanel@...> wrote: Tim Stubbs said:

                      >>I think Manny Coto's version of 'the ridges issue' . . .
                      >>the link to the children of Khan was inspired.

                      DITTO!

                      Trelane

                      "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
                      -- Douglas Adams



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim Stubbs
                      Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:18 AM
                      To: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [ST1-LCN] Re: Klingon heads


                      Hi Startrekkers,

                      I wrote a possible explanation here a few years ago. It involved a
                      Romulan biogenic weapon which physically debilitated and weakened
                      anyone exposed to it.

                      The Klingons, who were in league with the Romulans at the time in a
                      shared-technology partnership, were seen by the paranoid Romulans as
                      a potential threat to their dominance. The Klingons were 'suckered'
                      into a situation where Kronos was irradiated by the weapon ("Dohhh!")
                      and this this event gave the Romulans the opportunity to ditch their
                      initially debilitated and weakened 'partners' without much of a
                      fight.

                      The effects were not created at a DNA level, so the human-like
                      outward appearance and the weakening effects wore off over time.

                      This would explain -
                      Why the TOS Klingons are 'more human-looking and physically weaker'
                      Why the Klingons hate the 'treacherous' Romulans
                      Why the Klingons are embarrased to speak about this event.

                      I think Manny Coto's version of 'the ridges issue' is better. I think
                      the link to the children of Khan was inspired.

                      I think Manny's version covers all the questions: like why Kahless's
                      clone in TNG had ridges, why Kang, Kor and Koloth had 'regained'
                      their ridges in DS9, etc...

                      I'm sure Manny would have had an equally stunning resolution to the
                      question about why the Klingon/Romulan Alliance broke down... had he
                      been given the chance to cover the Romulan War.


                      eyes open for Manny Coto's name in the credits of ST Xl.

                      tim



                      --- In star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com, "captjim@..." <captjim@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > There's just no way they could have been ignorant of the fact that
                      > these were TOS Klingons. They had to have done it deliberately.
                      >
                      > "Yehuda N. Falk" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Did they give Kor, Kang, and Koloth ridges intentionally, or
                      was it a
                      > > > mistake? (I would guess that it was a mistake. It certainly
                      complicated
                      > > > the whole ridges problem.)
                      > >
                      > > and Dennis Evans responded:
                      > >
                      > > > As I recall in Enterprise when they explained what happened,
                      Phlox tells
                      > > > them that it might be possible to reverse the effect in the
                      future. I
                      > > > would presume that tht is what happened.
                      > >
                      > > Within the Star Trek universe, yes. But I'm wondering, when they
                      put TNG
                      > > makeup on the actors playing the three TOS Klingons, did they do
                      it
                      > > thinking "their ridges would have grown back by now" or "Hmm,
                      Klingons.
                      > > Let's put Klingon makeup on them" without thinking that these are
                      TOS
                      > > Klingons.
                      > > --
                      > > Yehuda N. Falk
                      > > Department of English, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
                      > > Mt. Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel
                      > > msyfalk@...
                      > > Personal Web Site http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msyfalk/
                      > > Departmental Web Site
                      http://atar.mscc.huji.ac.il/~english/
                      > >
                      > > "And because, in all the galaxy, they had found nothing more
                      precious
                      > > than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They
                      became
                      > > farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes
                      they
                      > > reaped."
                      > > --Arthur C. Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey







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                    • Tracy
                      And the Vulcan women in the background of ST-III at the end, when Spock was getting his Katra back from McCoy. They were... Umm... NICE!!! =-] Tracy (The 5th
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 13, 2006
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                        And the Vulcan women in the background of ST-III at the end, when Spock
                        was getting his Katra back from McCoy. They were... Umm... NICE!!! =-]


                        Tracy
                        (The 5th Horseman)

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com [mailto:star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Jeff kirk

                        How come no one ever mentions that the Romulans looked like Vulcans (they
                        were offshoots of the same race) but never mentions in 80 some odd years how
                        they get brow ridges? And why does every Romulan have Spock hair? I mean
                        there citys look kinda dingy and dim in next Gen, bet Really. Actually all
                        the vulcans have Spock hair to, even the women. Anyone rememner T'Pau and
                        T'Pring? Now THAT was hair!
                      • Jeff kirk
                        Agreed Tracy wrote: And the Vulcan women in the background of ST-III at the end, when Spock was getting his Katra back from McCoy.
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 13, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Agreed

                          Tracy <NoLetup@...> wrote: And the Vulcan women in the background of ST-III at the end, when Spock
                          was getting his Katra back from McCoy. They were... Umm... NICE!!! =-]


                          Tracy
                          (The 5th Horseman)

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com [mailto:star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Jeff kirk

                          How come no one ever mentions that the Romulans looked like Vulcans (they
                          were offshoots of the same race) but never mentions in 80 some odd years how
                          they get brow ridges? And why does every Romulan have Spock hair? I mean
                          there citys look kinda dingy and dim in next Gen, bet Really. Actually all
                          the vulcans have Spock hair to, even the women. Anyone rememner T'Pau and
                          T'Pring? Now THAT was hair!





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                        • Mel Schmidt
                          Yeah I noticed that too, they might as well be wearing nothing. Mel Tracy wrote: And the Vulcan women in the background of ST-III at the
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 13, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yeah I noticed that too, they might as well be wearing nothing.
                            Mel

                            Tracy <NoLetup@...> wrote:
                            And the Vulcan women in the background of ST-III at the end, when Spock
                            was getting his Katra back from McCoy. They were... Umm... NICE!!! =-]


                            Tracy
                            (The 5th Horseman)

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com [mailto:star-trek-one@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Jeff kirk

                            How come no one ever mentions that the Romulans looked like Vulcans (they
                            were offshoots of the same race) but never mentions in 80 some odd years how
                            they get brow ridges? And why does every Romulan have Spock hair? I mean
                            there citys look kinda dingy and dim in next Gen, bet Really. Actually all
                            the vulcans have Spock hair to, even the women. Anyone rememner T'Pau and
                            T'Pring? Now THAT was hair!





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