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Re: 26.2.12 PAYMENTS FROM INTERNEES

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  • Brian
    According to Geoff s account, two bankers from the HKSBC paid on behalf of all. I seem to remember another source claiming that those who paid were internees
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 28, 2012
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      According to Geoff's account, two bankers from the HKSBC paid on behalf of all. I seem to remember another source claiming that those who paid were internees with frozen accounts (everybody?) and if so the whole thing was perhaps a delaying tactic. But I can't remember who the source of the 'frozen accounts' version is.

      --- In stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Anslow" <barbara.anslow2@...> wrote:
      >
      > 28.2.12
      > BRIAN
      > I don't remember either my elder sister or myself (both adults then) or my
      > mother giving a cheque for our food
      > in camp. I feel that the cheque you mention must have come from moneyed
      > internees, not everyone of us.
      > I realise there may be a gap in my memory, so am trying to think of a
      > surviving internee who might remember.
      > Barbara----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Brian" <brianedgar20@...>
      > To: <stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:01 PM
      > Subject: [stanley_camp] Re: 26.2.12 PAYMENTS FROM INTERNEES
      >
      >
      > Hi, Barbara.
      > I think Lee's referring to the attempt by the Mr. Cheng, the Camp's first
      > supervisor, to extort money from the internees for 'extras' above the basic
      > allowance of rice and salt (part of the total demanded was for the
      > 'accommodation' in the hotel-brothels!). The internees eventually handed in
      > a cheque and a letter of protest, but soon after Mr. Cheng was replaced and
      > the cheque returned uncashed. (Deatils from pages 54-55 of Geoff's thesis).
      > The return of the cheque might suggest that Mr. Cheng had some of the
      > Japanese on board, but not all of them.
      > Of course, I doubt that Francis Lee's readers would have been able to
      > reconstruct those events from the wording of his report, as it does sound
      > like all the internees had to pay for their food.
      >
      > --- In stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Anslow" <barbara.anslow2@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Apart from the report from Francis Lee, Chungking, is there any other
      > > evidence that the internees had to pay the Japs for food? If payment was
      > > so made, I feel this must have been done by some philanthropic businessmen
      > > in Stanley, and not as a levy on all of us. Surely I would have
      > > remembered
      > > if we Redwoods had had to pay up then? In any case, my small bank balance
      > > wouldn't have helped!
      > > Barbara
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Brian" <brianedgar20@>
      > > To: <stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 1:37 PM
      > > Subject: [stanley_camp] Re: List of internees
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks for all this information, Tony. The same problem arises with regard
      > > to the source/s of this report in the London Daily Express on April 21,
      > > 1942:
      > >
      > > REMEMBER HONGKONG
      > > Starvation threat to prisoners
      > > Express Correspondent FRANCIS LEE
      > > CHUNGKING, Monday.
      > >
      > > COMPLAINTS by the British and Americans interned at Stanley Camp,
      > > Hongkong,
      > > against their meagre food allowances led to a demand by their Japanese
      > > jailers for £5,000 to cover the cost of extra rations, according to
      > > authoritative reports reaching Chungking.
      > >
      > > Although protests were made that the demand was illegal, the money had to
      > > be
      > > paid out of personal bank accounts, as the Japs threatened to starve out
      > > the
      > > Camp if it was not forthcoming.
      > >
      > > `EXTRAS'
      > >
      > > The internees now receive infinitesimal "extras," including an ounce of
      > > fish
      > > daily, with their tiny quota of rice. The original rations provided only
      > > 900
      > > calories daily instead of t h e 2,400 required.
      > >
      > > The internees are dreading the summer, as the Japanese have not given them
      > > any
      > > mosquito nets, and malaria is inevitable. They are unable to get clothes,
      > > shoes or soap they left behind in t h e city.
      > >
      > > They have no bedding beyond what was brought in when they were rounded up.
      > > They are herded in quarters in which six to eight men, women and children
      > > are given one room.
      > >
      > > The British internees total 2,500, but most of the able-bodied men are in
      > > a
      > > military camp. The others include older people and women and children.
      > >
      > > The internees, lacking outside news, console themselves with reports of
      > > the
      > > imminent arrival of food ships, or the release of American Red Cross wheat
      > > supplies, of which the Japs seized 2,000 tons.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com, Tony Banham <tony@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Brian,
      > > >
      > > > Good question. I'm sure I've seen an authoritative note somewhere -
      > > > maybe
      > > > in BAAG files. Epstein's biography notes, when they met Reeves in Macau,
      > > > that they 'knew who was and wasn't in Stanley', but doesn't explicitly
      > > > mention a list. (Epstein escaped with Fairfax and they were married
      > > > later).
      > > >
      > > > However, many relatives of those in Stanley received notice of their
      > > > internment in June 42. This included the text:
      > > >
      > > > "I am to explain that this list was brought out of Hong Kong by a
      > > > European
      > > > who escaped on the 19th March and who reached Chungking on the 13th
      > > > April."
      > > >
      > > > However, there were earlier letters, in May, that stated: "The
      > > > information
      > > > in the list is based on information given by various persons who have
      > > > escaped from Hong Kong and arrived at Chungking. The latest information
      > > > included is from a person who escaped on the 8th of February and the
      > > > list
      > > > may be regarded as containing all information at Chungking from Hong
      > > > Kong
      > > > for the period up to and including the 5th of February."
      > > >
      > > > This implies that the initial lists were being compiled from
      > > > interrogations of multiple escapers, and may have been replaced by a
      > > > more
      > > > formal list brought out by the 19th March escape. As you know, both the
      > > > Priestwood and Fairfax parties escaped that night! All we have to do is
      > > > see which arrived at Chungking on the 13th...
      > > >
      > > > Regards
      > > >
      > > > Tony
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On 19 Feb 2012, at 1:10 AM, Brian wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Is it certain that the CWGC list was supplied by Lucy
      > > > > Fairfax-Cholmondeley not Gwen Priestwood?
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com, Tony Banham <tony@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Don,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > There are four lists I am aware of, none of which are perfect.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The 'best' is the Greg leck / Ron bridges version. This is almost
      > > > > > complete, with a handful of errors. The full version has a number of
      > > > > > errors in the relationships between those listed.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The hong kong pro has the Japanese census. That's where my
      > > > > > information
      > > > > > about which person was in which hotel comes from. This list is
      > > > > > perhaps
      > > > > > 85% complete, but with spelling errors, missing Christian names,
      > > > > > etc.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Then there's a list published in hk not long after the war. As far
      > > > > > as
      > > > > > I recall (too lazy to get up and look!) it doesn't include the
      > > > > > repatriates.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Lastly there's the cwgc list, which I have to admit I haven't looked
      > > > > > at. I imagine the basis of this is the list smuggled back by fairfax
      > > > > > cholmondely, but I'd be interested if anyone could confirm that.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I've always wanted to merge all these properly, but reconciling four
      > > > > > lists of 3,500 people is not a small task.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Regards
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Tony
      > > > > >
      > > > > > On 18 Feb, 2012, at 5:01, Diana Fortescue <defortescue@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > I am pretty sure the Imperial War Museum has a complete list - at
      > > > > > > least they were able to make a copy of my parents' and brother,
      > > > > > > Adrian's, entry.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Michael Martin <mmarti4@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks!
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On 18/02/2012 3:19 AM, Don Ady wrote:
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> We do have on the website FILES section an alphabeized "GWCG"
      > > > > > >> list,
      > > > > > >> split on two files, with
      > > > > > >> just a few details. That is not far from the top of the FILES
      > > > > > >> list,
      > > > > > >> and is aphabetized.
      > > > > > >> If my memory is not wrong here, John Black compiled it and John
      > > > > > >> is
      > > > > > >> now deceased.
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> CWGC list of internees A to L.doc 4071 KB johnhk31 Feb 18, 2008
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> CWGC list of internees M to Z.doc 2533 KB johnhk31 Feb 18, 2008
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> Some of us have Greg Leck's book - lists again with a few
      > > > > > >> details.
      > > > > > >> I would
      > > > > > >> suppose there are archives in Hong Kong with other specialized
      > > > > > >> lists where some may include internees. If anyone in the group
      > > > > > >> knows the most, it would most likely be Tony or Geoff.
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> Don Ady
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> --- In stanley_camp@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mmarti4@> wrote:
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> > Hi Everyone,
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> > Has anyone compiled a detailed list of Stanley Camp internees
      > > > > > >> > by
      > > > > > >> > any
      > > > > > >> > chance?
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> > I think a list would be very handy for researchers.
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> > Regards,
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> > Michael
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --
      > > > > > > Please note this new e mail address!
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Diana Fortescue
      > > > > > > 2 Rochester Terrace, London, NW1 9JN
      > > > > > > T: 020 7485 9903
      > > > > > > M: 07765 885 047
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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