Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Young Family

Expand Messages
  • Ed Storey
    The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd. It
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 21, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
       
      It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
       
      There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
       
      Ed of Falcon
    • alfyoung1210
      Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 31, 2013
      • 0 Attachment

        Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

         

        My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

         

        Any clues as to where I should now look?

         

        Richard



        ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

        The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
         
        It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
         
        There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
         
        Ed of Falcon
      • Irene Dillon
        Hi Richard, Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days. I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 1, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          Hi Richard,

          Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

          Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

          There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

          There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

          There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

          However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

          Irene



          On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
           

          Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

           

          My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

           

          Any clues as to where I should now look?

           

          Richard



          ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

          The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
           
          It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
           
          There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
           
          Ed of Falcon




          This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


        • Harold Hayward
          By way of coincidence my great grandfather Thomas Gabriel Bagley, born on St. Helena in 1829, turned up on the goldfields of Victoria in 1852. He stayed in
          Message 4 of 28 , Nov 1, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            By way of coincidence my great grandfather Thomas Gabriel Bagley, born on St. Helena in 1829, turned up on the goldfields of Victoria in 1852.  He stayed in mining but blew himself in a mine accident in eastern Victoria in 1883 . He left a large family - most named after St. Helena relatives or identities.
             
            Thanks to previous research, confirmed by previous posts to this site, we have his genealogy sorted out. But I'd just love to know how he got off the island. May have gone originally to the goldfields in California. I too would welcome any clues.
             
            Harold Hayward 

            Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:16 AM
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

             

            Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

             

            My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

             

            Any clues as to where I should now look?

             

            Richard



            ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

            The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
             
            It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
             
            There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
             
            Ed of Falcon

          • Richard Vickery
            Thanks for this Irene, We have long pondered John Francis Young s method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have
            Message 5 of 28 , Nov 1, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks for this Irene,
               
              We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
               
              Hi Harold,
               
              Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
               
              I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
               
              I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


              On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
               


              Hi Richard,

              Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

              Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

              There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

              There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

              There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

              However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

              Irene




              On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
               

              Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

               

              My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

               

              Any clues as to where I should now look?

               

              Richard



              ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

              The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
               
              It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
               
              There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
               
              Ed of Falcon




              This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





              --
              Rgds//Richard
            • Ian Porteous
              Does anyone have records of police officers about 1870 on St Helena .I am looking for a William Dickinson and wife Margaret Kennedy . Margaret Kennedy has an
              Message 6 of 28 , Nov 1, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Does anyone have records of police officers about 1870 on St Helena .I am looking for a William Dickinson and wife  Margaret Kennedy . Margaret Kennedy has an Elizabeth Bagley and Nathaniel Kennedy in her tree . Anyone connected to this family ?
                EPORTEOUS 


                On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Richard Vickery <richard.a.vickery@...> wrote:
                 

                Thanks for this Irene,
                 
                We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                 
                Hi Harold,
                 
                Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                 
                I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                 
                I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                 


                Hi Richard,

                Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                Irene




                On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                 

                Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                 

                My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                 

                Any clues as to where I should now look?

                 

                Richard



                ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                 
                It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                 
                There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                 
                Ed of Falcon




                This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                --
                Rgds//Richard


              • Harold Hayward
                Thanks, Richard. I don t have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at
                Message 7 of 28 , Nov 1, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks, Richard.
                   
                  I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 
                   
                  Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 
                   
                  The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.
                   
                  At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.
                   
                  Too much information !!!
                   
                  Harold Hayward
                   
                   

                  Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                   

                  Thanks for this Irene,
                   
                  We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                   
                  Hi Harold,
                   
                  Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                   
                  I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                   
                  I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                  On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                   


                  Hi Richard,

                  Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                  Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                  There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                  There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                  There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                  However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                  Irene




                  On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                   

                  Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                   

                  My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                   

                  Any clues as to where I should now look?

                   

                  Richard



                  ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                  The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                   
                  It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                   
                  There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                   
                  Ed of Falcon




                  This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                  --
                  Rgds//Richard

                • Caroline Gaden
                  Don t forget they could have sailed with a ship of the East India Company... there was plenty of shipping movements to the Orient and from there easy to get
                  Message 8 of 28 , Nov 1, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Don't forget they could have sailed with a ship of the East India
                    Company... there was plenty of shipping movements to 'the Orient' and
                    from there easy to get to Australia as anyone could move to a ship
                    heading Down Under. ALso I seem to recall the California gold rush was
                    before the Australian one, in fact EH Hargraves who found gold in Aus
                    was first over in America.... so there was plenty of trade. Also don't
                    discount naval vessels, there were several which were exploring the
                    western coast of Canada/America and took in New Zealand and the Pacific
                    islands on their voyages..sadly unless he was an officer you are not
                    likely to find him on a ships list. If you have a vessel name and he was
                    an officer you may find him in Anthony Farrington's lists.
                    All the best
                    Caroline

                    On 01-Nov-13 8:31 PM, Irene Dillon wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Richard,
                    >
                    > Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days. I have family who
                    > came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two
                    > children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their
                    > birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania. The ship was an American
                    > whaler not a regular passenger ship.
                    >
                    > Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.
                    > There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through
                    > the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name. One
                    > was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'.
                    >
                    > There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia,
                    > St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad ....
                    > all with no records since they had their own ships.
                    >
                    > There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da
                    > Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it.
                    >
                    > There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed
                    > their crimes in Australia. It is more likely your ancestor signed on to
                    > a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.
                    >
                    > However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA.
                    >
                    > Irene
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart
                    >> from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict
                    >> transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and
                    >> Queensland?
                    >>
                    >> My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St
                    >> Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late
                    >> thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted
                    >> all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at
                    >> convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?
                    >>
                    >> Any clues as to where I should now look?
                    >>
                    >> Richard
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma
                    >> office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James
                    >> Youd and John Youd.
                    >> It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and
                    >> Geo, a carpenter. It is possible one of these is related to the
                    >> Youngs. Also the YON is close to the Youd. I have found many
                    >> instances of spelling changes in old records.
                    >> There are other years listed in Google. I have a copy of this page,
                    >> 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it
                    >> directly.
                    >> Ed of Falcon
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > <http://www.avast.com/>
                    >
                    > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
                    > <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    AUTHOR OF
                    "Pounding Along to Singapore, a history of the 2/20 Battalion AIF",
                    available from cagaden@...
                    WEB <http://secondtwentiethbattalionaif.wordpress.com/>
                    FACEBOOK
                    <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pounding-Along-to-Singapore-a-history-of-220th-Battalion-AIF/344892488956481>
                    BOOKS on NSW Colonial History:-
                    "From Baron to Battler, the story of Dr CUD Schrader of Walcha,
                    1860-1900" available from <www.smashwords.com/books/view/129058>
                    "The Schrader Letters, 1871-1896" available from
                    <www.smashword.com/books/view/109893>
                  • Richard Vickery
                    Harold, Certainly a lot of information but nonetheless interesting. Proof positive that this pursuit draws you in. I am resigned to the fact that my GGF is
                    Message 9 of 28 , Nov 2, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Harold,
                       
                      Certainly a lot of information but nonetheless interesting. Proof positive that this pursuit draws you in.
                       
                      I am resigned to the fact that my GGF is going to be very difficult to trace but that's what draws you to the pursuit in the first place.
                       
                      Cheers!!


                      On 2 November 2013 08:16, Harold Hayward <heh002@...> wrote:
                       

                      Thanks, Richard.
                       
                      I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 
                       
                      Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 
                       
                      The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.
                       
                      At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.
                       
                      Too much information !!!
                       
                      Harold Hayward
                       
                       

                      Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                       

                      Thanks for this Irene,
                       
                      We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                       
                      Hi Harold,
                       
                      Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                       
                      I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                       
                      I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                      On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                       


                      Hi Richard,

                      Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                      Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                      There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                      There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                      There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                      However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                      Irene




                      On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                       

                      Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                       

                      My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                       

                      Any clues as to where I should now look?

                       

                      Richard



                      ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                      The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                       
                      It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                       
                      There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                       
                      Ed of Falcon




                      This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                      --
                      Rgds//Richard




                      --
                      Rgds//Richard
                    • Clive Alexander
                      Hi Harold Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough. To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather,
                      Message 10 of 28 , Nov 2, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Hi Harold

                        Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                        To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                        I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                        We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                         

                        Cheers

                        Clive Alexander

                        South Africa

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                        Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                         

                         

                        Thanks, Richard.

                         

                        I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                         

                        Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                         

                        The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                         

                        At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                         

                        Too much information !!!

                         

                        Harold Hayward

                         

                         

                         

                        Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                         

                         

                        Thanks for this Irene,

                         

                        We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                         

                        Hi Harold,

                         

                        Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                         

                        I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                         

                        I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                         

                        On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                         


                        Hi Richard,

                        Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                        Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                        There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                        There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                        There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                        However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                        Irene





                        On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                         

                        Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                         

                        My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                         

                        Any clues as to where I should now look?

                         

                        Richard



                        ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                        The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                         

                        It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                         

                        There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                         

                        Ed of Falcon




                        Error! Filename not specified.

                        This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

                         




                        --
                        Rgds//Richard

                      • Harold Hayward
                        From: Clive Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family Hi
                        Message 11 of 28 , Nov 2, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                           

                          Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                           

                          Hi Harold

                          Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                          To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                          I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                          We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                          Cheers

                          Clive Alexander

                          South Africa

                          From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                          Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                           

                          Thanks, Richard.

                          I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                          Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                          The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                          At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                          Too much information !!!

                          Harold Hayward

                          Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                           

                          Thanks for this Irene,

                          We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                          Hi Harold,

                          Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                          I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                          I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                          On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                           


                          Hi Richard,

                          Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                          Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                          There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                          There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                          There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                          However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                          Irene





                          On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                           

                          Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                          My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                          Any clues as to where I should now look?

                          Richard



                          ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                          The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                          It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                          There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                          Ed of Falcon




                          Error! Filename not specified.

                          This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                          --
                          Rgds//Richard

                        • Harold Hayward
                          Thanks, Clive. To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with
                          Message 12 of 28 , Nov 2, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks, Clive.
                             
                            To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with me but "my" Edward was born on 17/7/1864 and "my" George was born on 11/3/1866.  My grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley was born on 22/12/1870 at Daylesford in Victoria. He had younger sisters Mary Ann Amelia ( which picks up a St. Helenan grandmother's name, I think) born on 22/10/1870 and another other younger sister Matilda Amanda ( which I also suspect reprises the name of a St. Helena forebear) was born on 31/5/1859. Frederick Doveton,  the baby of the family, was born on 15/1/1882.
                             
                            Seems to me that this "mob" was related to your "mob" ( if you'll excuse an Aussie expression). Alternatively the gene pool, or the name pool,  was limited.  Have written a draft of a chapter in a book about my "mob" -  some interesting characters. Finding out how Thomas Gabriel Bagley go off the island would fill  a gap in the story.
                             
                            Am about to leave for Tasmania. Only have summary notes with me - have a bit more information in the "archives" (i.e. the garage - where else) but it will be some weeks before I can get to it.
                             
                            Harold Hayward
                            PS It's a shocking thought, but I think my paternal great grandfather may have come to Australia via South Africa - but that's another mystery.

                            Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                             

                            Hi Harold

                            Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                            To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                            I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                            We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                            Cheers

                            Clive Alexander

                            South Africa

                            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                            Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                             

                            Thanks, Richard.

                            I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                            Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                            The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                            At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                            Too much information !!!

                            Harold Hayward

                            Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                             

                            Thanks for this Irene,

                            We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                            Hi Harold,

                            Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                            I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                            I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                            On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                             


                            Hi Richard,

                            Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                            Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                            There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                            There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                            There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                            However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                            Irene





                            On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                             

                            Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                            My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                            Any clues as to where I should now look?

                            Richard



                            ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                            The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                            It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                            There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                            Ed of Falcon




                            Error! Filename not specified.

                            This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                            --
                            Rgds//Richard

                          • gina stevens
                            hi Iam the great great grand daughter of John Young the son of Joseph Young and Sarah Francis from Jackass flats they came from St Helena in 1853 , this photo
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 29, 2014
                            • 1 Attachment
                            • 1.2 MB
                            hi Iam the great great grand daughter of John Young the son of Joseph Young and Sarah Francis from Jackass flats they came from St Helena in 1853 , this photo is believed to be one Johns five children born to Kathleen Nolan in 1877, the photo was handed down from my grandfather,Helena's son
                          • alfyoung1210
                            Hi All, I am updating this post as I think I have had a breakthrough. In 1855 three St Helenans were working the gold fields of Bendigo (Sandhurst) in Victoria
                            Message 14 of 28 , Apr 29, 2014
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi All,

                              I am updating this post as I think I have had a breakthrough. In 1855 three St Helenans were working the gold fields of Bendigo (Sandhurst) in Victoria Australia;

                              Hugh Darke Northam born 04 Jul 1825 to Thomas Northam St Helena Artillery and Catherine McCarrol
                              India Office record N/6/3 f. 15

                              James Lawrence reference unknown but a choice of 
                              James Jacob Lawrence born 8 Jul 1823 to William & Sarah  Ref N/6/2 f.226 OR 
                              James Samuel Lawrence born 13 Jul 1831 to William & Sarah Ref N/6/3 f.149

                              My great grandfather (I believe to be there) 
                              John Francis Young born 1835 approx to Joseph Young & Sarah Francis

                              In the gold fields the diggers lived  in tents on the field next to their lease. Some people worked as teams and that partner was referred to as their mate. Modern Australian usage refers to a mate as a friend. In this case Northam and Lawrence appeared to work the same claim so they were claim mates. Lawrence & Young shared a tent but not a claim so they were mates as in friends. Northam and Lawrence were supposed to have arrived in Melbourne together though the records show otherwise. Northam boarded at Capetown.

                              What transpired is that in late September 1855 Hugh Northam and James Lawrence had a falling out which resulted in Northam shooting Lawrence in the throat with a muzzle loaded pistol.as he lay in his camp stretcher. John Young was in his stretcher in the same tent. The ball went through James's trachea and oesophagus and lodged in his dorsal vertebrae. He did not die but it was impossible for him to receive food or water as it would leak out of the wound. I am unsure of the time that transpired but it appears that it was at least a week before Lawrence, in terrible pain, succumbed to internal and lung infections.

                              Hugh Northam avoided the death penalty because the incompetence of the doctor treating Lawrence was deemed to have contributed to his death. Northam was sentence to 7 years hard labour on the charge of manslaughter. What happened to him after that is unclear but one newspaper report said that at the time of the shooting he had already invested in UK canals and railways.

                              Is anybody chasing down James Lawrence or Hugh Darke Northam? I have some interesting articles about the inquest and trial.

                              Interestingly Northam reportedly converted 3lbs of gold just days before the shooting. When arrested trying to cash the cheque in Melbourne the authorities seized the money.  At today's price it would be the equivalent of USD$2,000,000

                              Rgds 

                              Richard Vickery

                              ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <heh002@...> wrote :

                              Thanks, Clive.
                               
                              To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with me but "my" Edward was born on 17/7/1864 and "my" George was born on 11/3/1866.  My grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley was born on 22/12/1870 at Daylesford in Victoria. He had younger sisters Mary Ann Amelia ( which picks up a St. Helenan grandmother's name, I think) born on 22/10/1870 and another other younger sister Matilda Amanda ( which I also suspect reprises the name of a St. Helena forebear) was born on 31/5/1859. Frederick Doveton,  the baby of the family, was born on 15/1/1882.
                               
                              Seems to me that this "mob" was related to your "mob" ( if you'll excuse an Aussie expression). Alternatively the gene pool, or the name pool,  was limited.  Have written a draft of a chapter in a book about my "mob" -  some interesting characters. Finding out how Thomas Gabriel Bagley go off the island would fill  a gap in the story.
                               
                              Am about to leave for Tasmania. Only have summary notes with me - have a bit more information in the "archives" (i.e. the garage - where else) but it will be some weeks before I can get to it.
                               
                              Harold Hayward
                              PS It's a shocking thought, but I think my paternal great grandfather may have come to Australia via South Africa - but that's another mystery.

                              Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                               

                              Hi Harold

                              Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                              To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                              I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                              We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                              Cheers

                              Clive Alexander

                              South Africa

                              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                              Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                               

                              Thanks, Richard.

                              I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                              Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                              The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                              At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                              Too much information !!!

                              Harold Hayward

                              Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                               

                              Thanks for this Irene,

                              We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                              Hi Harold,

                              Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                              I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                              I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                              On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                               


                              Hi Richard,

                              Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                              Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                              There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                              There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                              There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                              However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                              Irene





                              On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                               

                              Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                              My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                              Any clues as to where I should now look?

                              Richard



                              ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                              The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                              It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                              There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                              Ed of Falcon




                              Error! Filename not specified.

                              This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                              --
                              Rgds//Richard

                            • alfyoung1210
                              Hi everyone, I think my recent post crashed and flew off into the ether. I am tracking down my GGF John Francis YOUNG to the gold fields of Victoria Australia
                              Message 15 of 28 , Apr 30, 2014
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi everyone,

                                I think my recent post crashed and flew off into the ether.

                                I am tracking down my GGF John Francis YOUNG to the gold fields of Victoria Australia I might have had a breakthrough.

                                There were three friends from St Helena working the digs in Jackass Flat, Sandhurst (Bendigo). In gold digging parlance the person you team up with to work a claim was historically called a mate. In modern parlance the person you socialise with is called a mate.

                                Of the three, James Lawrence and Hugh Northam were mates; they may have worked a claim together. John Young (my GGF I think) was a friend of James Lawrence and they shared a tent. Miners usually pitched a tent on or very near to their claim to prevent theft.

                                After an altercation and in the early hours of after midnight Hugh Northam shot James Lawrence with a pistol in the very tent Lawrence & Young shared while they both lay on their stretchers. Lawrence didn't die straight away but suffered for more than a week with an open wound in his throat through his oesophagus and trachea before succumbing to lung and internal infections. He was unable to ingest food or fluids. You had to pay to be treated in the early days of the colony so Lawrence refused to be taken to hospital.

                                Northam escaped the death penalty because the incompetence of the attending physicians was deemed to contribute to Lawrence's death. He did 7 year's hard labour for manslaughter. Interestingly Northam had converted 3 lbs of gold just days before the attempted murder and was arrested in Melbourne trying to cash in his cheque. The authorities seized his money. It may have been unrefined gold and undervalued but if it was refined gold then 3lbs in today's money is USD$2,000,000. It is not clear where he ended up as a pardon or a release usually excluded freedom to travel to their home place or the UK. There was one report that prior to his arrest he had investments in UK canals and railways.

                                Northam arrived into Port Phillip Bay (Melbourne) possibly in 
                                July 1852 upon the Australasian Packet from Cape Town under Capt HHP Pryce  OR
                                Aug 1854 upon the "Helena" from Cape Town

                                He was born 04 July 1825 - India Office ref n/6/3 f. 15
                                Father    -  Thomas Northam (St Helena Artillery) 
                                Mother   -  Catherine McCarrol Baptised 30 May 1802 - F=James; M=Kitty Nairns  N/6/2 f.1
                                Siblings  -  Amelia     06 May 1821
                                              -  Catherine 24 Jul 1822 

                                James Lawrence could be;
                                James Jacob Lawrence        Born 13 Jul 1823    to William & Sarah = N/6/2 F.226   OR
                                James Samuel Lawrence      Born 31 Jan 1831   to William & Sarah = N/6/3 f.149

                                I am running with J Samuel L as it is closer to 
                                John Francis Young               Born 1835 to Joseph Young & Sophia Francis (No records)
                                 
                                Point of interest; if Northam arrived in 1852 then he travelled with an Edward Baguley

                                If any one cane verify the connection between Lawrence and Young I'd be eternally grateful

                                rgds 

                                Richard
                                Sydney 



                                ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <heh002@...> wrote :

                                Thanks, Clive.
                                 
                                To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with me but "my" Edward was born on 17/7/1864 and "my" George was born on 11/3/1866.  My grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley was born on 22/12/1870 at Daylesford in Victoria. He had younger sisters Mary Ann Amelia ( which picks up a St. Helenan grandmother's name, I think) born on 22/10/1870 and another other younger sister Matilda Amanda ( which I also suspect reprises the name of a St. Helena forebear) was born on 31/5/1859. Frederick Doveton,  the baby of the family, was born on 15/1/1882.
                                 
                                Seems to me that this "mob" was related to your "mob" ( if you'll excuse an Aussie expression). Alternatively the gene pool, or the name pool,  was limited.  Have written a draft of a chapter in a book about my "mob" -  some interesting characters. Finding out how Thomas Gabriel Bagley go off the island would fill  a gap in the story.
                                 
                                Am about to leave for Tasmania. Only have summary notes with me - have a bit more information in the "archives" (i.e. the garage - where else) but it will be some weeks before I can get to it.
                                 
                                Harold Hayward
                                PS It's a shocking thought, but I think my paternal great grandfather may have come to Australia via South Africa - but that's another mystery.

                                Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                 

                                Hi Harold

                                Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                                To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                                I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                                We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                                Cheers

                                Clive Alexander

                                South Africa

                                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                                Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                 

                                Thanks, Richard.

                                I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                                Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                                The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                                At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                                Too much information !!!

                                Harold Hayward

                                Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                 

                                Thanks for this Irene,

                                We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                                Hi Harold,

                                Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                                I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                                I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                                On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                                 


                                Hi Richard,

                                Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                                Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                                There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                                There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                                There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                                However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                                Irene





                                On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                                 

                                Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                                My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                                Any clues as to where I should now look?

                                Richard



                                ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                                The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                                It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                                There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                                Ed of Falcon




                                Error! Filename not specified.

                                This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                                --
                                Rgds//Richard

                              • Harold Hayward
                                Thanks, Richard. A grim story! Congratulations on your breakthrough . The goldfields connection is of interest to me (and others) since it appears that my ggf
                                Message 16 of 28 , May 2, 2014
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks, Richard.
                                   
                                  A grim story! Congratulations on your "breakthrough".
                                  The goldfields connection is of interest to me (and others) since it appears that my ggf Thomas Bagley came to Australia around the same time and became a gold miner in the same area ( Castlemaine, Hepburn). We have a comprehensive genealogy for  Bagley ( see earlier posts attached to yours)  but never discovered how he came to Australia. Bagley ( born 1829) died in a mine disaster in Gippsland in 1883. His death certificate showed that he arrived in Australia in 1852 . Will see if I can obtain a passenger list for the Australasian Packet 
                                   
                                  Harold Hayward

                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 3:02 PM
                                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Young Family

                                   

                                  Hi All,


                                  I am updating this post as I think I have had a breakthrough. In 1855 three St Helenans were working the gold fields of Bendigo (Sandhurst) in Victoria Australia;

                                  Hugh Darke Northam born 04 Jul 1825 to Thomas Northam St Helena Artillery and Catherine McCarrol
                                  India Office record N/6/3 f. 15

                                  James Lawrence reference unknown but a choice of 
                                  James Jacob Lawrence born 8 Jul 1823 to William & Sarah  Ref N/6/2 f.226 OR 
                                  James Samuel Lawrence born 13 Jul 1831 to William & Sarah Ref N/6/3 f.149

                                  My great grandfather (I believe to be there) 
                                  John Francis Young born 1835 approx to Joseph Young & Sarah Francis

                                  In the gold fields the diggers lived  in tents on the field next to their lease. Some people worked as teams and that partner was referred to as their mate. Modern Australian usage refers to a mate as a friend. In this case Northam and Lawrence appeared to work the same claim so they were claim mates. Lawrence & Young shared a tent but not a claim so they were mates as in friends. Northam and Lawrence were supposed to have arrived in Melbourne together though the records show otherwise. Northam boarded at Capetown.

                                  What transpired is that in late September 1855 Hugh Northam and James Lawrence had a falling out which resulted in Northam shooting Lawrence in the throat with a muzzle loaded pistol.as he lay in his camp stretcher. John Young was in his stretcher in the same tent. The ball went through James's trachea and oesophagus and lodged in his dorsal vertebrae. He did not die but it was impossible for him to receive food or water as it would leak out of the wound. I am unsure of the time that transpired but it appears that it was at least a week before Lawrence, in terrible pain, succumbed to internal and lung infections.

                                  Hugh Northam avoided the death penalty because the incompetence of the doctor treating Lawrence was deemed to have contributed to his death. Northam was sentence to 7 years hard labour on the charge of manslaughter. What happened to him after that is unclear but one newspaper report said that at the time of the shooting he had already invested in UK canals and railways.

                                  Is anybody chasing down James Lawrence or Hugh Darke Northam? I have some interesting articles about the inquest and trial.

                                  Interestingly Northam reportedly converted 3lbs of gold just days before the shooting. When arrested trying to cash the cheque in Melbourne the authorities seized the money.  At today's price it would be the equivalent of USD$2,000,000

                                  Rgds 

                                  Richard Vickery

                                  ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <heh002@...> wrote :

                                  Thanks, Clive.
                                   
                                  To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with me but "my" Edward was born on 17/7/1864 and "my" George was born on 11/3/1866.  My grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley was born on 22/12/1870 at Daylesford in Victoria. He had younger sisters Mary Ann Amelia ( which picks up a St. Helenan grandmother's name, I think) born on 22/10/1870 and another other younger sister Matilda Amanda ( which I also suspect reprises the name of a St. Helena forebear) was born on 31/5/1859. Frederick Doveton,  the baby of the family, was born on 15/1/1882.
                                   
                                  Seems to me that this "mob" was related to your "mob" ( if you'll excuse an Aussie expression). Alternatively the gene pool, or the name pool,  was limited.  Have written a draft of a chapter in a book about my "mob" -  some interesting characters. Finding out how Thomas Gabriel Bagley go off the island would fill  a gap in the story.
                                   
                                  Am about to leave for Tasmania. Only have summary notes with me - have a bit more information in the "archives" (i.e. the garage - where else) but it will be some weeks before I can get to it.
                                   
                                  Harold Hayward
                                  PS It's a shocking thought, but I think my paternal great grandfather may have come to Australia via South Africa - but that's another mystery.

                                  Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                   

                                  Hi Harold

                                  Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                                  To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                                  I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                                  We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                                  Cheers

                                  Clive Alexander

                                  South Africa

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                                  Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                   

                                  Thanks, Richard.

                                  I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                                  Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                                  The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                                  At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                                  Too much information !!!

                                  Harold Hayward

                                  Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                   

                                  Thanks for this Irene,

                                  We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                                  Hi Harold,

                                  Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                                  I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                                  I'll try the US thanks to your suggestionand see where I get.

                                  On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                                   


                                  Hi Richard,

                                  Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                                  Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                                  There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                                  There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                                  There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                                  However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                                  Irene





                                  On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                                   

                                  Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                                  My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                                  Any clues as to where I should now look?

                                  Richard



                                  ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                                  The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                                  It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                                  There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                                  Ed of Falcon




                                  Error! Filename not specified.

                                  This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                                  --
                                  Rgds//Richard

                                • gina stevens
                                  Hi Richard, sorry I haven't responded to your information, I had read the article in theBendigo paper about the two girls,Helena and Kathleen, I wasn't
                                  Message 17 of 28 , May 23, 2014
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Richard, sorry I haven't responded to your information, I had read the article in theBendigo paper about the two girls,Helena and Kathleen, I wasn't able to find the article about John Young being Malay, I would be interested in reading it if you could tell me where to find it. If there is anything you would like to know on the Stevens family I'll be happy to let you know, I have recently joined The Friends Of St Helena but still haven't found anything new, there was information on a Sophia Young who had bought her freedom before Her daughter Sarah was born on St Helena.

                                    Regards
                                    Margaret Stevens
                                  • Richard Vickery
                                    Margaret, Welcome to the group. I ll hook you up to my threads so you can follow the past conversations. I found the Sophia/Sarah info but I haven t been able
                                    Message 18 of 28 , May 23, 2014
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Margaret,

                                      Welcome to the group. I'll hook you up to my threads so you can follow the past conversations.

                                      I found the Sophia/Sarah info but I haven't been able establish the link time wise to confirm they are our mob.

                                      rgds//richard


                                      On 23 May 2014 18:52, gina stevens ginastevens659@... [st-helena-genealogy] <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                       

                                      Hi Richard, sorry I haven't responded to your information, I had read the article in theBendigo paper about the two girls,Helena and Kathleen, I wasn't able to find the article about John Young being Malay, I would be interested in reading it if you could tell me where to find it. If there is anything you would like to know on the Stevens family I'll be happy to let you know, I have recently joined The Friends Of St Helena but still haven't found anything new, there was information on a Sophia Young who had bought her freedom before Her daughter Sarah was born on St Helena.

                                      Regards
                                      Margaret Stevens




                                      --
                                      Rgds//Richard
                                    • alfyoung1210
                                      Hi everyone on this thread, Just want to introduce Margaret Stevens to the Group who also descends for John Francis Young through Helena Young, daughter of JFY
                                      Message 19 of 28 , May 23, 2014
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi everyone on this thread,

                                        Just want to introduce Margaret Stevens to the Group who also descends for John Francis Young through Helena Young, daughter of JFY and sister to my grandfather Alfred, youngest child of JFY. ginastevens659@...

                                        The more heads on this the merrier. 

                                        I believe that around the 1850's to 1860's there was a massive influx of St Helenans to the Australian goldfields, most of them as stowaways, or crew who jumped ship which makes tracing them extremely difficult. They could have arrived in Australia vis Fremantle WA, Adelaide SA, Sydney NSW, Hobsons Bay VIC even Moreton Bay QLD.

                                        I believe though am still unable to prove that John Francis Young arrived around 1853 either with or about the same time as;
                                        Hugh Darke Northam born 04 Jul 1825 and
                                        James Lawrence details unknown and possibly a Mr Plunkett

                                        If anyone knows of any other groups of St Helena men arriving in the Victorian Goldfields between 1850 & 1860. I'd be extremely grateful to know their details.

                                        regards
                                        Richard


                                        ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ginastevens659@...> wrote :

                                        Hi Richard, sorry I haven't responded to your information, I had read the article in theBendigo paper about the two girls,Helena and Kathleen, I wasn't able to find the article about John Young being Malay, I would be interested in reading it if you could tell me where to find it. If there is anything you would like to know on the Stevens family I'll be happy to let you know, I have recently joined The Friends Of St Helena but still haven't found anything new, there was information on a Sophia Young who had bought her freedom before Her daughter Sarah was born on St Helena.

                                        Regards
                                        Margaret Stevens
                                      • alfyoung1210
                                        Hello again, I would just like to apologetically correct my last post. I deemed Margaret as descendent of John Francis Young when in fact it is Gina her
                                        Message 20 of 28 , May 23, 2014
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hello again,

                                          I would just like to apologetically correct my last post. I deemed Margaret as descendent of John Francis Young when in fact it is Gina her daughter. Margaret married a descendent of JFY.

                                          My humblest apologies.

                                          Richard
                                        • Ian Godfrey
                                          Hello to those on the Young family thread, I m not sure how relevant this is to your current discussion but it appears that John Francis Young left St Helena
                                          Message 21 of 28 , May 24, 2014
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hello to those on the Young family thread,

                                            I'm not sure how relevant this is to your current discussion but it appears that John Francis Young left St Helena for the Victorian goldfields with - it seems probable - his cousin Stephen John Young. Apologies if you've already covered this.

                                            My distant cousin Stephen John Young 2 (I'm using the number 2 for this Stephen John Young as he had the same name as his father and also one of his children, so this can get confusing) was born on St Helena on 16 Sep 1832 and arrived in Victoria around 1853. He married Sarah Elizabeth Veal on the goldfields at Sandhurst (now Bendigo) on 26 April 1858. Stephen died in a road accident at Peg Leg Gully, Eaglehawk (now a suburb of Bendigo) aged 27, on 9 Jun 1860, and was buried on 12 Jun 1860 in the Back Creek Cemetery. His cause of death certified by the Jury at the Coroner’s Inquest was:
                                            “Severe injuries received by the upsetting of a cart, the wheel of which passed over his neck”. At the time of his death he was a storekeeper.

                                            Stephen John Young 2 and Sarah had two sons:
                                            • William John Spencer Young, b 13 Aug 1856, d 13 Apr 1927, and
                                            • Stephen John Young 3, b Mar 1859, d 1912.
                                            From Stephen's death certificate he also appears to have had an illegitimate further son:
                                            • William J(?) Young, b Mar 1858.

                                            I have assumed, but with no current evidence, that as Stephen John Young 2:
                                            • had the same family name as John Francis Young,
                                            • was born on St Helena and was just three years older than John Francis Young, and
                                            • migrated to the Bendigo goldfields at very much the same time as John Francis Young,
                                            that they were cousins.
                                            John Francis Young died 24 Feb 1896 at Jackass Flat, Bendigo, nearby to Eaglehawk where Stephen John Young had died earlier. He was buried at White Hills Cemetery close by.

                                            I have John Francis Young b St Helena 7 Sep 1835.
                                            He married Kathleen Nolan on 21 Sep 1880 at St Paul's Church of England, Sandhurst.
                                            I have no children recorded.

                                            John Francis's Father was Joseph Young and his mother Sarah Francis, both of St Helena.

                                            I have assumed that Joseph Young may have been a son of Amoret Young b abt 1781, buried St Helena 25 Mar 1844, and Mary Broadway, baptised 6 Mar 1785 and d 10 Jun 1819, both on St Helena. This is because Stephen John Young 1 (father of Stephen John Young 2 above) was also a son of Amoret and Mary's.

                                            Stephen John Young 1 was born 17 Mar 1810, baptised 15 Apr 1810 and died 9 Dec 1890 on St Helena. But just perhaps interestingly for the current thread's discussion about how all these Saints got to Australia, his son Stephen John Young 2's death certificate shows Stephen John Young 1 to have been a purser.

                                            On 8 Jul 1830 at the Country Church St Helena, Stephen John Young 1 married Eleanor Mary Adams, who was born and baptised on 20 Jan 1814, died 1891 and was buried in Knollcombe Cemetery, all on St Helena. They had six sons and six daughters.

                                            My connection to all this is that Eleanor Mary Adams's father, Sergeant Major Thomas Adams (1771-1828) and his second wife Elizabeth Pridemore Thompson were my GGGG Grandparents.

                                            I hope some of this might be of assistance.

                                            Ian.
                                            Melbourne, Australia.


                                            On 30 Apr 2014, at 6:48 pm, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                                            > Hi everyone,
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I think my recent post crashed and flew off into the ether.
                                            >
                                            > I am tracking down my GGF John Francis YOUNG to the gold fields of Victoria Australia I might have had a breakthrough.
                                            >
                                            > There were three friends from St Helena working the digs in Jackass Flat, Sandhurst (Bendigo). In gold digging parlance the person you team up with to work a claim was historically called a mate. In modern parlance the person you socialise with is called a mate.
                                            >
                                            > Of the three, James Lawrence and Hugh Northam were mates; they may have worked a claim together. John Young (my GGF I think) was a friend of James Lawrence and they shared a tent. Miners usually pitched a tent on or very near to their claim to prevent theft.
                                            >
                                            > After an altercation and in the early hours of after midnight Hugh Northam shot James Lawrence with a pistol in the very tent Lawrence & Young shared while they both lay on their stretchers. Lawrence didn't die straight away but suffered for more than a week with an open wound in his throat through his oesophagus and trachea before succumbing to lung and internal infections. He was unable to ingest food or fluids. You had to pay to be treated in the early days of the colony so Lawrence refused to be taken to hospital.
                                            >
                                            > Northam escaped the death penalty because the incompetence of the attending physicians was deemed to contribute to Lawrence's death. He did 7 year's hard labour for manslaughter. Interestingly Northam had converted 3 lbs of gold just days before the attempted murder and was arrested in Melbourne trying to cash in his cheque. The authorities seized his money. It may have been unrefined gold and undervalued but if it was refined gold then 3lbs in today's money is USD$2,000,000. It is not clear where he ended up as a pardon or a release usually excluded freedom to travel to their home place or the UK. There was one report that prior to his arrest he had investments in UK canals and railways.
                                            >
                                            > Northam arrived into Port Phillip Bay (Melbourne) possibly in
                                            > July 1852 upon the Australasian Packet from Cape Town under Capt HHP Pryce OR
                                            > Aug 1854 upon the "Helena" from Cape Town
                                            >
                                            > He was born 04 July 1825 - India Office ref n/6/3 f. 15
                                            > Father - Thomas Northam (St Helena Artillery)
                                            > Mother - Catherine McCarrol Baptised 30 May 1802 - F=James; M=Kitty Nairns N/6/2 f.1
                                            > Siblings - Amelia 06 May 1821
                                            > - Catherine 24 Jul 1822
                                            >
                                            > James Lawrence could be;
                                            > James Jacob Lawrence Born 13 Jul 1823 to William & Sarah = N/6/2 F.226 OR
                                            > James Samuel Lawrence Born 31 Jan 1831 to William & Sarah = N/6/3 f.149
                                            >
                                            > I am running with J Samuel L as it is closer to
                                            > John Francis Young Born 1835 to Joseph Young & Sophia Francis (No records)
                                            >
                                            > Point of interest; if Northam arrived in 1852 then he travelled with an Edward Baguley
                                            >
                                            > If any one cane verify the connection between Lawrence and Young I'd be eternally grateful
                                            >
                                            > rgds
                                            >
                                            > Richard
                                            > Sydney
                                          • harold.hayward@ymail.com
                                            Thanks, Ian. Way back in this thread I raised the possibility that my gg Thomas Bagley may have migrated to Victoria to work on the goldfields. He was born in
                                            Message 22 of 28 , May 27, 2014
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thanks, Ian.

                                              Way back in this thread I raised the possibility that my gg Thomas Bagley
                                              may have migrated to Victoria to work on the goldfields. He was born in 1829
                                              and his death certificate indicates he arrived in the colony in 1852.
                                              Interestingly Bagley's mother was a Mary Broadway ( full name Mary Ann
                                              Emilia Broadway, born 1799 ) the same name as the presumed mother of Joseph
                                              Young.
                                              In the fashion of the Island, these women may have been cousins

                                              The foregoing does not help us very much but points to the possibility of a
                                              group of St. Helenan young men, probably known to each other and some
                                              related,
                                              that moved to Australia around the same time

                                              Harold Hayward



                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Ian Godfrey ian.godfrey_@... [st-helena-genealogy]
                                              Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 11:40 AM
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Young Family

                                              Hello to those on the Young family thread,

                                              I'm not sure how relevant this is to your current discussion but it appears
                                              that John Francis Young left St Helena for the Victorian goldfields with -
                                              it seems probable - his cousin Stephen John Young. Apologies if you've
                                              already covered this.

                                              My distant cousin Stephen John Young 2 (I'm using the number 2 for this
                                              Stephen John Young as he had the same name as his father and also one of his
                                              children, so this can get confusing) was born on St Helena on 16 Sep 1832
                                              and arrived in Victoria around 1853. He married Sarah Elizabeth Veal on the
                                              goldfields at Sandhurst (now Bendigo) on 26 April 1858. Stephen died in a
                                              road accident at Peg Leg Gully, Eaglehawk (now a suburb of Bendigo) aged 27,
                                              on 9 Jun 1860, and was buried on 12 Jun 1860 in the Back Creek Cemetery.
                                              His cause of death certified by the Jury at the Coroner’s Inquest was:
                                              “Severe injuries received by the upsetting of a cart, the wheel of which
                                              passed over his neck”. At the time of his death he was a storekeeper.

                                              Stephen John Young 2 and Sarah had two sons:
                                              • William John Spencer Young, b 13 Aug 1856, d 13 Apr 1927, and
                                              • Stephen John Young 3, b Mar 1859, d 1912.
                                              From Stephen's death certificate he also appears to have had an illegitimate
                                              further son:
                                              • William J(?) Young, b Mar 1858.

                                              I have assumed, but with no current evidence, that as Stephen John Young 2:
                                              • had the same family name as John Francis Young,
                                              • was born on St Helena and was just three years older than John Francis
                                              Young, and
                                              • migrated to the Bendigo goldfields at very much the same time as John
                                              Francis Young,
                                              that they were cousins.
                                              John Francis Young died 24 Feb 1896 at Jackass Flat, Bendigo, nearby to
                                              Eaglehawk where Stephen John Young had died earlier. He was buried at White
                                              Hills Cemetery close by.

                                              I have John Francis Young b St Helena 7 Sep 1835.
                                              He married Kathleen Nolan on 21 Sep 1880 at St Paul's Church of England,
                                              Sandhurst.
                                              I have no children recorded.

                                              John Francis's Father was Joseph Young and his mother Sarah Francis, both of
                                              St Helena.

                                              I have assumed that Joseph Young may have been a son of Amoret Young b abt
                                              1781, buried St Helena 25 Mar 1844, and Mary Broadway, baptised 6 Mar 1785
                                              and d 10 Jun 1819, both on St Helena. This is because Stephen John Young 1
                                              (father of Stephen John Young 2 above) was also a son of Amoret and Mary's.

                                              Stephen John Young 1 was born 17 Mar 1810, baptised 15 Apr 1810 and died 9
                                              Dec 1890 on St Helena. But just perhaps interestingly for the current
                                              thread's discussion about how all these Saints got to Australia, his son
                                              Stephen John Young 2's death certificate shows Stephen John Young 1 to have
                                              been a purser.

                                              On 8 Jul 1830 at the Country Church St Helena, Stephen John Young 1 married
                                              Eleanor Mary Adams, who was born and baptised on 20 Jan 1814, died 1891 and
                                              was buried in Knollcombe Cemetery, all on St Helena. They had six sons and
                                              six daughters.

                                              My connection to all this is that Eleanor Mary Adams's father, Sergeant
                                              Major Thomas Adams (1771-1828) and his second wife Elizabeth Pridemore
                                              Thompson were my GGGG Grandparents.

                                              I hope some of this might be of assistance.

                                              Ian.
                                              Melbourne, Australia.


                                              On 30 Apr 2014, at 6:48 pm, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                                              > Hi everyone,
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I think my recent post crashed and flew off into the ether.
                                              >
                                              > I am tracking down my GGF John Francis YOUNG to the gold fields of
                                              > Victoria Australia I might have had a breakthrough.
                                              >
                                              > There were three friends from St Helena working the digs in Jackass Flat,
                                              > Sandhurst (Bendigo). In gold digging parlance the person you team up with
                                              > to work a claim was historically called a mate. In modern parlance the
                                              > person you socialise with is called a mate.
                                              >
                                              > Of the three, James Lawrence and Hugh Northam were mates; they may have
                                              > worked a claim together. John Young (my GGF I think) was a friend of James
                                              > Lawrence and they shared a tent. Miners usually pitched a tent on or very
                                              > near to their claim to prevent theft.
                                              >
                                              > After an altercation and in the early hours of after midnight Hugh Northam
                                              > shot James Lawrence with a pistol in the very tent Lawrence & Young shared
                                              > while they both lay on their stretchers. Lawrence didn't die straight away
                                              > but suffered for more than a week with an open wound in his throat through
                                              > his oesophagus and trachea before succumbing to lung and internal
                                              > infections. He was unable to ingest food or fluids. You had to pay to be
                                              > treated in the early days of the colony so Lawrence refused to be taken to
                                              > hospital.
                                              >
                                              > Northam escaped the death penalty because the incompetence of the
                                              > attending physicians was deemed to contribute to Lawrence's death. He did
                                              > 7 year's hard labour for manslaughter. Interestingly Northam had converted
                                              > 3 lbs of gold just days before the attempted murder and was arrested in
                                              > Melbourne trying to cash in his cheque. The authorities seized his money.
                                              > It may have been unrefined gold and undervalued but if it was refined gold
                                              > then 3lbs in today's money is USD$2,000,000. It is not clear where he
                                              > ended up as a pardon or a release usually excluded freedom to travel to
                                              > their home place or the UK. There was one report that prior to his arrest
                                              > he had investments in UK canals and railways.
                                              >
                                              > Northam arrived into Port Phillip Bay (Melbourne) possibly in
                                              > July 1852 upon the Australasian Packet from Cape Town under Capt HHP Pryce
                                              > OR
                                              > Aug 1854 upon the "Helena" from Cape Town
                                              >
                                              > He was born 04 July 1825 - India Office ref n/6/3 f. 15
                                              > Father - Thomas Northam (St Helena Artillery)
                                              > Mother - Catherine McCarrol Baptised 30 May 1802 - F=James; M=Kitty
                                              > Nairns N/6/2 f.1
                                              > Siblings - Amelia 06 May 1821
                                              > - Catherine 24 Jul 1822
                                              >
                                              > James Lawrence could be;
                                              > James Jacob Lawrence Born 13 Jul 1823 to William & Sarah = N/6/2
                                              > F.226 OR
                                              > James Samuel Lawrence Born 31 Jan 1831 to William & Sarah = N/6/3
                                              > f.149
                                              >
                                              > I am running with J Samuel L as it is closer to
                                              > John Francis Young Born 1835 to Joseph Young & Sophia
                                              > Francis (No records)
                                              >
                                              > Point of interest; if Northam arrived in 1852 then he travelled with an
                                              > Edward Baguley
                                              >
                                              > If any one cane verify the connection between Lawrence and Young I'd be
                                              > eternally grateful
                                              >
                                              > rgds
                                              >
                                              > Richard
                                              > Sydney


                                              ------------------------------------

                                              ------------------------------------

                                              This is the St Helena Institute's 'Forum for Family History'.

                                              For information on St Helena family history see the St Helena Institute's
                                              homepage at http://www.st-helena.org

                                              Yahoo Groups Links
                                            • Richard Vickery
                                              Hello Ian, Thanks for the great post. I had come across Stephen Young whilst drag netting Trove for Youngs in Sandhurst (Bendigo). I found him (perhaps S1
                                              Message 23 of 28 , May 27, 2014
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hello Ian,

                                                Thanks for the great post.

                                                I had come across Stephen Young whilst drag netting Trove for Youngs in Sandhurst (Bendigo). I found him (perhaps S1 rather than S2) again and the Adams' when doing the East India Office search. I hadn't explored that avenue fully because I haven't been able to prove or disprove the Amoret link to JFY yet. I personally am grateful for your post as it is wonderfully detailed and will be of great assistance. I'd like to be able to establish a relationship between S2 & JFY but it is going to be difficult. The one thing about JFY that I found puzzling was the lack of siblings in his oral history. In fact there is very little oral history if any on JFY let alone a knowledge of S2. 

                                                I'll let you know how I get on.

                                                Cheers from Sydney to you in sunny Melbourne.

                                                regards//richard

                                                On 25 May 2014 11:40, Ian Godfrey ian.godfrey_@... [st-helena-genealogy] <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                                Hello to those on the Young family thread,

                                                I'm not sure how relevant this is to your current discussion but it appears that John Francis Young left St Helena for the Victorian goldfields with - it seems probable  - his cousin Stephen John Young.  Apologies if you've already covered this.

                                                My distant cousin Stephen John Young 2 (I'm using the number 2 for this Stephen John Young as he had the same name as his father and also one of his children, so this can get confusing) was born on St Helena on 16 Sep 1832 and arrived in Victoria around 1853.  He married Sarah Elizabeth Veal on the goldfields at Sandhurst (now Bendigo) on 26 April 1858.  Stephen died in a road accident at Peg Leg Gully, Eaglehawk (now a suburb of Bendigo) aged 27, on 9 Jun 1860, and was buried on 12 Jun 1860 in the Back Creek Cemetery.  His cause of death certified by the Jury at the Coroner’s Inquest was:
                                                “Severe injuries received by the upsetting of a cart, the wheel of which passed over his neck”.  At the time of his death he was a storekeeper.

                                                Stephen John Young 2 and Sarah had two sons:
                                                •  William John Spencer Young, b 13 Aug 1856, d 13 Apr 1927, and
                                                •  Stephen John Young 3, b Mar 1859, d 1912.
                                                From Stephen's death certificate he also appears to have had an illegitimate further son:
                                                •  William J(?) Young, b Mar 1858.

                                                I have assumed, but with no current evidence, that as Stephen John Young 2:
                                                •  had the same family name as John Francis Young,
                                                •  was born on St Helena and was just three years older than John Francis Young, and
                                                •  migrated to the Bendigo goldfields at very much the same time as John Francis Young,
                                                that they were cousins.
                                                John Francis Young died 24 Feb 1896 at Jackass Flat, Bendigo, nearby to Eaglehawk where Stephen John Young had died earlier.  He was buried at White Hills Cemetery close by.

                                                I have John Francis Young b St Helena 7 Sep 1835.
                                                He married Kathleen Nolan on 21 Sep 1880 at St Paul's Church of England, Sandhurst.
                                                I have no children recorded.

                                                John Francis's Father was Joseph Young and his mother Sarah Francis, both of St Helena.

                                                I have assumed that Joseph Young may have been a son of Amoret Young b abt 1781, buried St Helena 25 Mar 1844, and Mary Broadway, baptised 6 Mar 1785 and d 10 Jun 1819, both on St Helena.  This is because Stephen John Young 1 (father of Stephen John Young 2 above) was also a son of Amoret and Mary's.

                                                Stephen John Young 1 was born 17 Mar 1810, baptised 15 Apr 1810 and died 9 Dec 1890 on St Helena.  But just perhaps interestingly for the current thread's discussion about how all these Saints got to Australia, his son Stephen John Young 2's death certificate shows Stephen John Young 1 to have been a purser.

                                                On 8 Jul 1830 at the Country Church St Helena, Stephen John Young 1 married Eleanor Mary Adams, who was born and baptised on 20 Jan 1814, died 1891 and was buried in Knollcombe Cemetery, all on St Helena.  They had six sons and six daughters.

                                                My connection to all this is that Eleanor Mary Adams's father, Sergeant Major Thomas Adams (1771-1828) and his second wife Elizabeth Pridemore Thompson were my GGGG Grandparents.

                                                I hope some of this might be of assistance.

                                                Ian.
                                                Melbourne, Australia.


                                                On 30 Apr 2014, at 6:48 pm, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                                                > Hi everyone,
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I think my recent post crashed and flew off into the ether.
                                                >
                                                > I am tracking down my GGF John Francis YOUNG to the gold fields of Victoria Australia I might have had a breakthrough.
                                                >
                                                > There were three friends from St Helena working the digs in Jackass Flat, Sandhurst (Bendigo). In gold digging parlance the person you team up with to work a claim was historically called a mate. In modern parlance the person you socialise with is called a mate.
                                                >
                                                > Of the three, James Lawrence and Hugh Northam were mates; they may have worked a claim together. John Young (my GGF I think) was a friend of James Lawrence and they shared a tent. Miners usually pitched a tent on or very near to their claim to prevent theft.
                                                >
                                                > After an altercation and in the early hours of after midnight Hugh Northam shot James Lawrence with a pistol in the very tent Lawrence & Young shared while they both lay on their stretchers. Lawrence didn't die straight away but suffered for more than a week with an open wound in his throat through his oesophagus and trachea before succumbing to lung and internal infections. He was unable to ingest food or fluids. You had to pay to be treated in the early days of the colony so Lawrence refused to be taken to hospital.
                                                >
                                                > Northam escaped the death penalty because the incompetence of the attending physicians was deemed to contribute to Lawrence's death. He did 7 year's hard labour for manslaughter. Interestingly Northam had converted 3 lbs of gold just days before the attempted murder and was arrested in Melbourne trying to cash in his cheque. The authorities seized his money. It may have been unrefined gold and undervalued but if it was refined gold then 3lbs in today's money is USD$2,000,000. It is not clear where he ended up as a pardon or a release usually excluded freedom to travel to their home place or the UK. There was one report that prior to his arrest he had investments in UK canals and railways.
                                                >
                                                > Northam arrived into Port Phillip Bay (Melbourne) possibly in
                                                > July 1852 upon the Australasian Packet from Cape Town under Capt HHP Pryce  OR
                                                > Aug 1854 upon the "Helena" from Cape Town
                                                >
                                                > He was born 04 July 1825 - India Office ref n/6/3 f. 15
                                                > Father    -  Thomas Northam (St Helena Artillery)
                                                > Mother   -  Catherine McCarrol Baptised 30 May 1802 - F=James; M=Kitty Nairns  N/6/2 f.1
                                                > Siblings  -  Amelia     06 May 1821
                                                >              -  Catherine 24 Jul 1822
                                                >
                                                > James Lawrence could be;
                                                > James Jacob Lawrence        Born 13 Jul 1823    to William & Sarah = N/6/2 F.226   OR
                                                > James Samuel Lawrence      Born 31 Jan 1831   to William & Sarah = N/6/3 f.149
                                                >
                                                > I am running with J Samuel L as it is closer to
                                                > John Francis Young               Born 1835 to Joseph Young & Sophia Francis (No records)
                                                >
                                                > Point of interest; if Northam arrived in 1852 then he travelled with an Edward Baguley
                                                >
                                                > If any one cane verify the connection between Lawrence and Young I'd be eternally grateful
                                                >
                                                > rgds
                                                >
                                                > Richard
                                                > Sydney


                                                ------------------------------------

                                                ------------------------------------

                                                This is the St Helena Institute's 'Forum for Family History'.

                                                For information on St Helena family history see the St Helena Institute's homepage at http://www.st-helena.org

                                                Yahoo Groups Links

                                                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/st-helena-genealogy/

                                                <*> Your email settings:
                                                    Individual Email | Traditional

                                                <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/st-helena-genealogy/join
                                                    (Yahoo! ID required)

                                                <*> To change settings via email:
                                                    st-helena-genealogy-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                                    st-helena-genealogy-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    st-helena-genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
                                                    https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/




                                                --
                                                Rgds//Richard
                                              • alfyoung1210
                                                Hi all, I was skimming South African newspapers and come across the following notices. I thought they might be useful to somebody other than me. DEATHS 1851
                                                Message 24 of 28 , Jun 13 4:10 PM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hi all,

                                                  I was skimming South African newspapers and come across the following notices. I thought they might be useful to somebody other than me. 

                                                  DEATHS 1851 April 30: Catherine WHITE, Native of St Helena, aged 38 years. 
                                                  BIRTHS April 1862 TAYLER – On the 11th inst., at St. Leonard's-On-Sea, the wife of Captain Harry TAYLER, H.M.S St Helena Regiment of a son 

                                                  rgds richard
                                                • ecs7fg
                                                  I am responding to the series of notes about Bagleys The 1825 List of Inhabitants for St Helena lists John, Orlando and Richard Bagley; all farmers. Ed Storey
                                                  Message 25 of 28 , Jun 14 4:04 PM
                                                  • 0 Attachment

                                                    I am responding to the series of notes about Bagleys


                                                    The 1825 List of Inhabitants for St Helena lists


                                                    John, Orlando and Richard Bagley; all farmers.


                                                    Ed Storey

                                                  • sigridmcmahon
                                                    The birth notice refers to Thomas Louis Tayler, born 11 April 1862, son of Capt. Henry Tayler and Sibella Rose Gideon. Thomas died before end September 1862.
                                                    Message 26 of 28 , Jun 17 3:56 PM
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      The birth notice refers to Thomas Louis Tayler, born 11 April 1862, son of Capt. Henry Tayler and Sibella Rose Gideon. Thomas died before end September 1862. Capt. Henry Tayler changed his family name to Porter sometime between 1871 and 1879.
                                                      Sigi
                                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.