Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Young Family

Expand Messages
  • alfyoung1210
    Can anybody handhold this newbie through the process please? I am Richard Vickery, 61 years old and living with Parkinson s. I am descendant of St Helena
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 20, 2013
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment

      Can anybody handhold this newbie through the process please?

       

      I am Richard Vickery, 61 years old and living with Parkinson's. I am descendant of St Helena people. I am the Great Grandson of John Francis Young b 1835, son of Sarah Francis (we think) b 1814 & Joseph Young b?

       

      What is the process for getting more detail or perhaps more importantly verifying the journey so far? I am Australian. John Francis Young appeared in the goldfields of Victoria some time between 1835 when he was born and 1874 when he married (as you can see quite late). We are curious as to whether he left a family behind and to trace back his line. Did he have siblings? Was he married with children?

       

      We believe Sarah was a freed slave but she doesn't show on the register of slaves and owners and we also believe in the possibility that Joseph may have been a Malay or Chinese market gardener'

       

      If any of you old hands have tips for this greenhorn I would most definitely be grateful.

       

      rgds\\richard

    • alfyoung1210
      In scanning the other posts & threads I am seeing the family name YON mentioned. This name has been offered to me as a possibility for my searching. What is
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 20, 2013
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment

         In scanning the other posts & threads I am seeing the family name YON mentioned. This name has been offered to me as a possibility for my searching. What is the ethnicity of the family name YON. Is it caucasean or oriental in origin? 

         

        If my St Helena ancestors were in fact Yon was it customary to adopt the surname Young as a corruption of Yon?

         

        rgds//richard



        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <richard.a.vickery@...> wrote:

        Can anybody handhold this newbie through the process please?

         

        I am Richard Vickery, 61 years old and living with Parkinson's. I am descendant of St Helena people. I am the Great Grandson of John Francis Young b 1835, son of Sarah Francis (we think) b 1814 & Joseph Young b?

         

        What is the process for getting more detail or perhaps more importantly verifying the journey so far? I am Australian. John Francis Young appeared in the goldfields of Victoria some time between 1835 when he was born and 1874 when he married (as you can see quite late). We are curious as to whether he left a family behind and to trace back his line. Did he have siblings? Was he married with children?

         

        We believe Sarah was a freed slave but she doesn't show on the register of slaves and owners and we also believe in the possibility that Joseph may have been a Malay or Chinese market gardener'

         

        If any of you old hands have tips for this greenhorn I would most definitely be grateful.

         

        rgds\\richard

      • Ed Storey
        The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd. It
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 21, 2013
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
           
          It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
           
          There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
           
          Ed of Falcon
        • alfyoung1210
          Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 31, 2013
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment

            Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

             

            My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

             

            Any clues as to where I should now look?

             

            Richard



            ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

            The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
             
            It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
             
            There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
             
            Ed of Falcon
          • Irene Dillon
            Hi Richard, Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days. I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 1, 2013
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment

              Hi Richard,

              Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

              Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

              There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

              There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

              There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

              However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

              Irene



              On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
               

              Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

               

              My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

               

              Any clues as to where I should now look?

               

              Richard



              ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

              The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
               
              It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
               
              There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
               
              Ed of Falcon




              This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


            • Harold Hayward
              By way of coincidence my great grandfather Thomas Gabriel Bagley, born on St. Helena in 1829, turned up on the goldfields of Victoria in 1852. He stayed in
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 1, 2013
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                By way of coincidence my great grandfather Thomas Gabriel Bagley, born on St. Helena in 1829, turned up on the goldfields of Victoria in 1852.  He stayed in mining but blew himself in a mine accident in eastern Victoria in 1883 . He left a large family - most named after St. Helena relatives or identities.
                 
                Thanks to previous research, confirmed by previous posts to this site, we have his genealogy sorted out. But I'd just love to know how he got off the island. May have gone originally to the goldfields in California. I too would welcome any clues.
                 
                Harold Hayward 

                Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:16 AM
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                 

                Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                 

                My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                 

                Any clues as to where I should now look?

                 

                Richard



                ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                 
                It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                 
                There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                 
                Ed of Falcon

              • Richard Vickery
                Thanks for this Irene, We have long pondered John Francis Young s method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 1, 2013
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks for this Irene,
                   
                  We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                   
                  Hi Harold,
                   
                  Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                   
                  I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                   
                  I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                  On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                   


                  Hi Richard,

                  Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                  Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                  There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                  There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                  There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                  However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                  Irene




                  On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                   

                  Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                   

                  My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                   

                  Any clues as to where I should now look?

                   

                  Richard



                  ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                  The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                   
                  It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                   
                  There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                   
                  Ed of Falcon




                  This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                  --
                  Rgds//Richard
                • Ian Porteous
                  Does anyone have records of police officers about 1870 on St Helena .I am looking for a William Dickinson and wife Margaret Kennedy . Margaret Kennedy has an
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 1, 2013
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Does anyone have records of police officers about 1870 on St Helena .I am looking for a William Dickinson and wife  Margaret Kennedy . Margaret Kennedy has an Elizabeth Bagley and Nathaniel Kennedy in her tree . Anyone connected to this family ?
                    EPORTEOUS 


                    On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Richard Vickery <richard.a.vickery@...> wrote:
                     

                    Thanks for this Irene,
                     
                    We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                     
                    Hi Harold,
                     
                    Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                     
                    I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                     
                    I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                    On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                     


                    Hi Richard,

                    Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                    Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                    There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                    There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                    There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                    However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                    Irene




                    On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                     

                    Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                     

                    My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                     

                    Any clues as to where I should now look?

                     

                    Richard



                    ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                    The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                     
                    It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                     
                    There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                     
                    Ed of Falcon




                    This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                    --
                    Rgds//Richard


                  • Harold Hayward
                    Thanks, Richard. I don t have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 1, 2013
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks, Richard.
                       
                      I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 
                       
                      Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 
                       
                      The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.
                       
                      At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.
                       
                      Too much information !!!
                       
                      Harold Hayward
                       
                       

                      Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                       

                      Thanks for this Irene,
                       
                      We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                       
                      Hi Harold,
                       
                      Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                       
                      I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                       
                      I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                      On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                       


                      Hi Richard,

                      Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                      Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                      There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                      There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                      There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                      However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                      Irene




                      On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                       

                      Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                       

                      My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                       

                      Any clues as to where I should now look?

                       

                      Richard



                      ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                      The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                       
                      It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                       
                      There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                       
                      Ed of Falcon




                      This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                      --
                      Rgds//Richard

                    • Caroline Gaden
                      Don t forget they could have sailed with a ship of the East India Company... there was plenty of shipping movements to the Orient and from there easy to get
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 1, 2013
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Don't forget they could have sailed with a ship of the East India
                        Company... there was plenty of shipping movements to 'the Orient' and
                        from there easy to get to Australia as anyone could move to a ship
                        heading Down Under. ALso I seem to recall the California gold rush was
                        before the Australian one, in fact EH Hargraves who found gold in Aus
                        was first over in America.... so there was plenty of trade. Also don't
                        discount naval vessels, there were several which were exploring the
                        western coast of Canada/America and took in New Zealand and the Pacific
                        islands on their voyages..sadly unless he was an officer you are not
                        likely to find him on a ships list. If you have a vessel name and he was
                        an officer you may find him in Anthony Farrington's lists.
                        All the best
                        Caroline

                        On 01-Nov-13 8:31 PM, Irene Dillon wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Richard,
                        >
                        > Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days. I have family who
                        > came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two
                        > children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their
                        > birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania. The ship was an American
                        > whaler not a regular passenger ship.
                        >
                        > Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.
                        > There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through
                        > the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name. One
                        > was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'.
                        >
                        > There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia,
                        > St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad ....
                        > all with no records since they had their own ships.
                        >
                        > There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da
                        > Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it.
                        >
                        > There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed
                        > their crimes in Australia. It is more likely your ancestor signed on to
                        > a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.
                        >
                        > However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA.
                        >
                        > Irene
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart
                        >> from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict
                        >> transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and
                        >> Queensland?
                        >>
                        >> My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St
                        >> Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late
                        >> thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted
                        >> all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at
                        >> convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?
                        >>
                        >> Any clues as to where I should now look?
                        >>
                        >> Richard
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma
                        >> office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James
                        >> Youd and John Youd.
                        >> It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and
                        >> Geo, a carpenter. It is possible one of these is related to the
                        >> Youngs. Also the YON is close to the Youd. I have found many
                        >> instances of spelling changes in old records.
                        >> There are other years listed in Google. I have a copy of this page,
                        >> 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it
                        >> directly.
                        >> Ed of Falcon
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > <http://www.avast.com/>
                        >
                        > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
                        > <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        AUTHOR OF
                        "Pounding Along to Singapore, a history of the 2/20 Battalion AIF",
                        available from cagaden@...
                        WEB <http://secondtwentiethbattalionaif.wordpress.com/>
                        FACEBOOK
                        <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pounding-Along-to-Singapore-a-history-of-220th-Battalion-AIF/344892488956481>
                        BOOKS on NSW Colonial History:-
                        "From Baron to Battler, the story of Dr CUD Schrader of Walcha,
                        1860-1900" available from <www.smashwords.com/books/view/129058>
                        "The Schrader Letters, 1871-1896" available from
                        <www.smashword.com/books/view/109893>
                      • Richard Vickery
                        Harold, Certainly a lot of information but nonetheless interesting. Proof positive that this pursuit draws you in. I am resigned to the fact that my GGF is
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 2, 2013
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Harold,
                           
                          Certainly a lot of information but nonetheless interesting. Proof positive that this pursuit draws you in.
                           
                          I am resigned to the fact that my GGF is going to be very difficult to trace but that's what draws you to the pursuit in the first place.
                           
                          Cheers!!


                          On 2 November 2013 08:16, Harold Hayward <heh002@...> wrote:
                           

                          Thanks, Richard.
                           
                          I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 
                           
                          Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 
                           
                          The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.
                           
                          At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.
                           
                          Too much information !!!
                           
                          Harold Hayward
                           
                           

                          Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                           

                          Thanks for this Irene,
                           
                          We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can
                           
                          Hi Harold,
                           
                          Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?
                           
                          I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.
                           
                          I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.


                          On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:
                           


                          Hi Richard,

                          Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                          Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                          There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                          There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                          There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                          However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                          Irene




                          On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:
                           

                          Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                           

                          My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                           

                          Any clues as to where I should now look?

                           

                          Richard



                          ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                          The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.
                           
                          It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 
                           
                          There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.
                           
                          Ed of Falcon




                          This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





                          --
                          Rgds//Richard




                          --
                          Rgds//Richard
                        • Clive Alexander
                          Hi Harold Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough. To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 2, 2013
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Hi Harold

                            Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                            To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                            I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                            We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                             

                            Cheers

                            Clive Alexander

                            South Africa

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                            Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                             

                             

                            Thanks, Richard.

                             

                            I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                             

                            Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                             

                            The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                             

                            At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                             

                            Too much information !!!

                             

                            Harold Hayward

                             

                             

                             

                            Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                             

                             

                            Thanks for this Irene,

                             

                            We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                             

                            Hi Harold,

                             

                            Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                             

                            I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                             

                            I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                             

                            On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                             


                            Hi Richard,

                            Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                            Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                            There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                            There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                            There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                            However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                            Irene





                            On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                             

                            Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                             

                            My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                             

                            Any clues as to where I should now look?

                             

                            Richard



                            ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                            The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                             

                            It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                             

                            There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                             

                            Ed of Falcon




                            Error! Filename not specified.

                            This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

                             




                            --
                            Rgds//Richard

                          • Harold Hayward
                            From: Clive Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family Hi
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 2, 2013
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                               

                              Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                               

                              Hi Harold

                              Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                              To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                              I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                              We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                              Cheers

                              Clive Alexander

                              South Africa

                              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                              Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                               

                              Thanks, Richard.

                              I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                              Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                              The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                              At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                              Too much information !!!

                              Harold Hayward

                              Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                               

                              Thanks for this Irene,

                              We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                              Hi Harold,

                              Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                              I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                              I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                              On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                               


                              Hi Richard,

                              Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                              Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                              There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                              There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                              There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                              However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                              Irene





                              On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                               

                              Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                              My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                              Any clues as to where I should now look?

                              Richard



                              ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                              The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                              It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                              There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                              Ed of Falcon




                              Error! Filename not specified.

                              This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                              --
                              Rgds//Richard

                            • Harold Hayward
                              Thanks, Clive. To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 2, 2013
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks, Clive.
                                 
                                To make it worse my grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley had older brothers Edward and George Carol. I only have summary information with me but "my" Edward was born on 17/7/1864 and "my" George was born on 11/3/1866.  My grandfather Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley was born on 22/12/1870 at Daylesford in Victoria. He had younger sisters Mary Ann Amelia ( which picks up a St. Helenan grandmother's name, I think) born on 22/10/1870 and another other younger sister Matilda Amanda ( which I also suspect reprises the name of a St. Helena forebear) was born on 31/5/1859. Frederick Doveton,  the baby of the family, was born on 15/1/1882.
                                 
                                Seems to me that this "mob" was related to your "mob" ( if you'll excuse an Aussie expression). Alternatively the gene pool, or the name pool,  was limited.  Have written a draft of a chapter in a book about my "mob" -  some interesting characters. Finding out how Thomas Gabriel Bagley go off the island would fill  a gap in the story.
                                 
                                Am about to leave for Tasmania. Only have summary notes with me - have a bit more information in the "archives" (i.e. the garage - where else) but it will be some weeks before I can get to it.
                                 
                                Harold Hayward
                                PS It's a shocking thought, but I think my paternal great grandfather may have come to Australia via South Africa - but that's another mystery.

                                Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:01 PM
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                 

                                Hi Harold

                                Too much information indeed. But sometimes not enough.

                                To my knowledge, two Bagleys married Alexanders on the Island. My 4th Great Grandfather, George Alexander, married Margaret Bagley in 1751 and Edward Bagley married Elizabeth Alexander in 1732. This is most likely where the Alexander in TGA’s name came from.

                                I need more info on these Bagleys. I have birth and death dates for Margaret and birth Date for Edward, but nothing else. How were they related, who were their parents? And so on. Can you help?

                                We also have Dovetons in our tree. I find I am a fourth cousin 3 x removed to Dr Louis Leaky, the archaeologist, with Sarah Doveton and John Bazett a common ancestors.

                                Cheers

                                Clive Alexander

                                South Africa

                                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harold Hayward
                                Sent: 01 November 2013 11:16 PM
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                 

                                Thanks, Richard.

                                I don't have my full Bagley file handy, but my notes indicate that Thomas Gabriel Bagley was married in 1862 ( to Elizabeth Boff) at Castlemaine, not far from Bendigo,Vic.  These are goldfields sites, of course. 

                                Thomas Gabriel Bagley was not Irish but English, a descendant of an early (original?) settler Orlando Bagley who arrived on the Island in the 17th century. Thomas Bagley's eldest son was called William Orlando, reprising the Orlando name. His youngest son, Frederick Doveton, possibly reprised the name of Sir William Doveton. Sir William Doveton had a brother called Frederick . And also there was another relative, Gabriel Doveton, which is maybe where the "Gabriel" in Thomas Bagley's name came from. And to make matters worse, he named his middle son Thomas Gabriel Alexander Bagley . TGA Bagley was my grandfather. It would be a guess, but I imagine that the St.Helena Dovetons were patrons of this branch of the Bagley family ( several Bagley families living on the isalnd). 

                                The Doveton name is connected with the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat in 1854. Ballarat was of course another gold mining town. Captain Francis Doveton was a goldfields commissioner with the responsibility of putting down the Eureka rebellion. Being a miner and lving in that partof Vicotria it would be surprising that Thomas Gabriel Bagley did not know of Francis Doveton.

                                At one stage I found a ( possibly unreliable) genealogy on the web that traced Orlando Bagley's descent back to the Plantagenet royal family of  Norman England. And certainly there were Bagleys, or Baguleys (variant) or De Baguleys (pseudo Norman French)) living in Manchester where a Baguley Hall still exists.

                                Too much information !!!

                                Harold Hayward

                                Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:24 PM

                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] RE: Young Family

                                 

                                Thanks for this Irene,

                                We have long pondered John Francis Young's method of entry into Australia and your suggestions are probably the most plausible I have heard. I'll pursue it as far as I can

                                Hi Harold,

                                Nice to hear from you. Bagely is Irish right? Have made that branch connection yet?

                                I hadn't considered the US, I am a little wary of the timing but I did consider NSW as the first point of entry into the mining industry. My GGF ended up in Jackass Flats, White Hills, Sandhurst (Bendigo).... seriously.. working as a Pyrites burner and miraculously in spite of sniffing toxic fumes at work lasted to 65. Unfortunately his teenage bride didn't live very long so he was a widower with a tribe of kids. He was described in Bendigo papers as a Malay and we think he was the son or grandson of a freed slave. As far as we can calculate the mix may have been Asian, possibly Madagascan, probably English or local and possibly West African. Fascinating stuff but frustrating given that records prior to 1835 are a little scarce and somewhat sketchy.

                                I'll try the US thanks to your suggestion and see where I get.

                                On 1 November 2013 20:31, Irene Dillon <larzus@...> wrote:

                                 


                                Hi Richard,

                                Passenger lists were very haphazard in those days.  I have family who came from Tristan Da Cunha and the only way I found it was that two children were placed in an orphanage in Hobart, which listed their birthplace and ship of arrival in Tasmania.  The ship was an American whaler not a regular passenger ship.

                                Also, sailors and seamen (unskilled sea labourers) were not recorded.  There were a few seamen who died in wharf accidents in Hobart through the mid 1850s and even the ship's captain didn't know their name.  One was recorded, I remember, as 'Sharkey' and another was 'Jemmy'. 

                                There was also a lot of seaport hopping by merchants between Australia, St Helena, New Zealand and Cape Town, also Nevis, Bermuda, Trinidad .... all with no records since they had their own ships.

                                There was talk at one point (circa 1795 I think) of making Tristan Da Cunha a convict settlement but England decided against it. 

                                There were convicts from the Islands in Tas but I think they committed their crimes in Australia.  It is more likely your ancestor signed on to a ship as crew in order to achieve a free passage to Australia.  

                                However, I don't really know NSW convicts so well, nor WA. 

                                Irene





                                On 1/11/2013 10:46 AM, richard.a.vickery@... wrote:

                                 

                                Does anybody know if St Helena has police records available? Apart from being a stop over point, was St Helena a party to convict transportation to the colonies of Tasmania, New South Wales and Queensland?

                                My ancestor John Francis Young b 1835 seems to have vanished from St Helena as a young person and popped up as a man in his late thirties in the Australian Goldfields of Victoria. We have exhausted all standard avenues like passenger lists etc. I have even looked at convict registers. He may have been a stowaway or a steerage passenger?

                                Any clues as to where I should now look?

                                Richard



                                ---In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, <ecstorey@...> wrote:

                                The East India Register & Directory for 1829 (Inadia Office & Burma office list) as found on Google Books for 1829, page 361 lists James Youd and John Youd.

                                It also lists 3 youngs: Stephen, a farmer; Amoret, a carpenter; and Geo, a carpenter.  It is possible one of these is related to the Youngs.  Also the YON is close to the Youd.  I have found many instances of spelling changes in old records. 

                                There are other years listed in Google.  I have a copy of this page, 361 and can scan & share it if there is a problem getting to see it directly.

                                Ed of Falcon




                                Error! Filename not specified.

                                This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




                                --
                                Rgds//Richard

                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.