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Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

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  • Frank Craig
    Hi Andrew, Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 29 3:08 AM
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      Hi Andrew,

      Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.

      I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off and post today.
       
      Regards

      Frank F Craig



      From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 21:36:16
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

       

      Hi Mary,
      Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I've come across so far to Catherine Clingen's mother is on her death certificate in 1912. Catherine herself was illiterate and it's unlikely that she had any written records with reference to her mother so it's quite possible that her daughter Georgiana, who was the informant on the death certificate, made a mistake and confused Reid with Ridge. It seems improbable that there were two William Clingens on St. Helena at the same time, each married to an Elizabeth. Catherine Clingen was born about 1838 by my reckoning so may well be the younger sister of William (b1832) and James Isaac (b1833). Is there no record of Catherine's birth or baptism?
      I've looked at the India office Records family history search website and I see that an Elizabeth Ridge was baptised on St. Helena on 31st March 1816. She was the daughter of William Ridge and Fanny, slave of John Slater. William and Fanny had a son William in 1817. Fanny was then described as free. Louisa was born in 1819, daughter of William Ridge and Fanny Thomas. William and Fanny (Frances in the marriage entry) married in 1820 and there were at least two more children: Frances in 1821 and Caroline in 1822.
      Thank you again for your help. You've certainly opened up another line of enquiry for me.
      Regards,
      Andrew Begernie

      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Mary King <mary25656@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family
      > history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are
      > some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to
      > Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another
      > mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
      > Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June
      > 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
      > Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st
      > Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
      > I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I
      > let you know,good luck in your research.


    • ajb500
      Hi Frank, That s another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 29 7:21 AM
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        Hi Frank,
        That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
        Regards,
        Andrew

        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Andrew,
        >
        > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
        > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
        > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
        > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
        > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
        >
        > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
        > and post today.
        > Regards
        >
        >
        > Frank F Craig
      • Marian Press
        Andrew: To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 29 8:21 AM
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          Andrew:

           

          To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

           

          Marian Press

          Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
          Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

           

           

          Hi Frank,
          That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
          Regards,
          Andrew

          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Andrew,
          >
          > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
          > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
          > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
          > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
          > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
          >
          > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
          > and post today.
          > Regards
          >
          >
          > Frank F Craig

        • John Gardiner
          Hi, Marian. Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 30 10:02 AM
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            Hi, Marian.
             
            Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his slave possibly from birth but certainly up until 1823-24 when she was sold to Captain Seale.  By this time, Margaret was also on the verge of marrying my greatx4 grandfather, Samuel Caesar, but it's possible she had already had a number of illegitimate children with Samuel stretching back as far as 1813, plus Thomas Greentree continued to own three slave children - Michael, Sophia and Margaret (Jnr?) - even after Margaret has been sold to Seale.
             
            Just wondered if you had any information you could share on Thomas Greentree and his life.
             
            Many thanks.
             
            John Gardiner 


            From: Marian Press <marian.press@...>
            To: "st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com" <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:21:56
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

             

            Andrew:

             

            To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

             

            Marian Press

            Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

             

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
            Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

             

             

            Hi Frank,
            That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
            Regards,
            Andrew

            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Andrew,
            >
            > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
            > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
            > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
            > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
            > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
            >
            > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
            > and post today.
            > Regards
            >
            >
            > Frank F Craig

          • Marian Press
            John: Oh dear! This is quite a posting – to hear concrete news about one’s ancestors owning slaves, although I know they did on Saint Helena. I can
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
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              John: Oh dear! This is quite a posting – to hear concrete news about one’s ancestors owning slaves, although I know they did on Saint Helena.

               

              I can certainly give you information on Thomas Greentree (although there was more than one and we will need to work out which one we are talking about exactly). None of the Thomases were my direct ancestor, but whichever he was he was a close relative of my ancestor, Margaret Greentree.

               

              Can you email me off list at marian.press@... and I can send you information.

               

              Marian

               

              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
              Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:02 PM
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

               

               

              Hi, Marian.

               

              Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his slave possibly from birth but certainly up until 1823-24 when she was sold to Captain Seale.  By this time, Margaret was also on the verge of marrying my greatx4 grandfather, Samuel Caesar, but it's possible she had already had a number of illegitimate children with Samuel stretching back as far as 1813, plus Thomas Greentree continued to own three slave children - Michael, Sophia and Margaret (Jnr?) - even after Margaret has been sold to Seale.

               

              Just wondered if you had any information you could share on Thomas Greentree and his life.

               

              Many thanks.

               

              John Gardiner 

               


              From: Marian Press <marian.press@...>
              To: "st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com" <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:21:56
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

               

              Andrew:

               

              To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

               

              Marian Press

              Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

               

               

              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
              Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

               

               

              Hi Frank,
              That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
              Regards,
              Andrew

              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Andrew,
              >
              > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
              > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
              > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
              > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
              > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
              >
              > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
              > and post today.
              > Regards
              >
              >
              > Frank F Craig

            • ajb500
              Hi Frank, Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all. If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St.
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
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                Hi Frank,
                Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                Regards,
                Andrew

                --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Andrew,
                >
                > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                >
                > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                > and post today.
                > Regards
                >
                >
                > Frank F Craig
              • frankfcraig@yahoo.co.uk
                Hi Andrew, I don t know about the military records but you are right - there is likely material in there to analyse. Good luck with your study! Sent using
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
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                  Hi Andrew,

                  I don't know about the military records but you are right - there is likely material in there to analyse.

                  Good luck with your study!

                  Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange


                  From: "ajb500" <ajb500@...>
                  Sender: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 20:51:35 -0000
                  To: <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] William Ridge and William Clingen in the St. Helena Artillery

                   

                  Hi Frank,
                  Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                  If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                  I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                  Regards,
                  Andrew

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Andrew,
                  >
                  > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                  > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                  > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                  > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                  > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                  >
                  > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                  > and post today.
                  > Regards
                  >
                  >
                  > Frank F Craig

                • foxhome
                  Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and artillery in the British Library Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd floor) The
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 2, 2011
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                    Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and artillery in the British Library  Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd floor)

                    The indexes are on line at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1&cid=1-1-1#1-1-1

                    Or search on ‘St Helena muster rolls’  on the National Archives web site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ and click on

                    St Helena Records IOR/L/MIL/13

                     

                    The volumes handwritten are about 3 ins thick. There is a return for each battalion every quarter year 1789 to 1859

                    You can track the career of your ancestor from when he arrived at the island until his discharge. If he received a pension he may be appear in other volumes. The staff at the library are very helpful and will give you lots of help if you ask. If you phone before hand you may be able to order volumes to be ready when you arrive (first time readers will need to get a pass – a quick and easy process). If you order them when you get there it will take 70mins for the items to arrive.

                    Try and avoid busy times – Sat mornings, bank hols etc.

                     

                    Hope this helps

                     

                    Colin

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                    Sent: 01 April 2011 21:52
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] William Ridge and William Clingen in the St. Helena Artillery

                     

                     

                    Hi Frank,
                    Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                    If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                    I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                    Regards,
                    Andrew

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Andrew,
                    >
                    > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                    > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                    > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                    > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                    > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                    >
                    > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                    > and post today.
                    > Regards
                    >
                    >
                    > Frank F Craig

                  • ajb500
                    Colin, Thank you for the information about the Muster Rolls. I will have to visit the British Library one day to search for William Ridge s and William
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 4, 2011
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                      Colin,
                      Thank you for the information about the Muster Rolls. I will have to visit the British Library one day to search for William Ridge's and William Clingen's military records.
                      Andrew

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and
                      > artillery in the British Library Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd
                      > floor)
                      >
                      > The indexes are on line at
                      > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1
                      > <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1&cid
                      > =1-1-1#1-1-1> &cid=1-1-1#1-1-1
                      >
                      > Or search on 'St Helena muster rolls' on the National Archives web site
                      > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ and click on
                      >
                      > St Helena Records IOR/L/MIL/13
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The volumes handwritten are about 3 ins thick. There is a return for each
                      > battalion every quarter year 1789 to 1859
                      >
                      > You can track the career of your ancestor from when he arrived at the island
                      > until his discharge. If he received a pension he may be appear in other
                      > volumes. The staff at the library are very helpful and will give you lots of
                      > help if you ask. If you phone before hand you may be able to order volumes
                      > to be ready when you arrive (first time readers will need to get a pass - a
                      > quick and easy process). If you order them when you get there it will take
                      > 70mins for the items to arrive.
                      >
                      > Try and avoid busy times - Sat mornings, bank hols etc.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hope this helps
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Colin
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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