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Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

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  • Mary King
    Hi I don t know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 25, 2011
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      Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
      Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
      Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
      I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


      From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

       

      I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
      Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
      Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
      Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
      1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
      2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
      3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
      4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
      5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
      6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
      7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
      8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

      I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
      Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.

    • Frank Craig
      Hi Mary, Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 26, 2011
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        Hi Mary,

        Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small population. 

        I checked a few things:

        a husbandman is an english term for a "free tenant farmer". It makes sense. I suspect the only jobs on the island were farming, being a soldier or being involved in trade or a sailor.

        Thanks for spotting this and passing it on.
         
        Regards

        Frank F Craig



        From: Mary King <mary25656@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, 25 March, 2011 20:59:56
        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

         

        Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
        Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
        Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
        I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


        From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

         

        I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
        Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
        Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
        Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
        1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
        2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
        3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
        4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
        5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
        6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
        7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
        8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

        I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
        Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


      • Mary King
        Hi Frank, I wondered what the term husbandman meant, anyway your welcome, good luck with your research. regards Mary. ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 27, 2011
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          Hi Frank, I wondered what the term husbandman meant, anyway your welcome, good luck with your research.
          regards Mary.


          From: Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, 26 March, 2011 17:57:24
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

           

          Hi Mary,

          Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small population. 

          I checked a few things:

          a husbandman is an english term for a "free tenant farmer". It makes sense. I suspect the only jobs on the island were farming, being a soldier or being involved in trade or a sailor.

          Thanks for spotting this and passing it on.
           
          Regards

          Frank F Craig



          From: Mary King <mary25656@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, 25 March, 2011 20:59:56
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

           

          Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
          Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
          Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
          I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


          From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

           

          I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
          Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
          Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
          Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
          1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
          2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
          3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
          4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
          5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
          6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
          7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
          8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

          I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
          Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


        • Leonard Meek
          Frank, there were other jobs on the island. My ancestors (Maggott/Magnett) apparently worked for the East India Company in public works as carpenters and stone
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 27, 2011
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            Frank, there were other jobs on the island. My ancestors (Maggott/Magnett) apparently worked for the East India Company in public works as carpenters and stone masons. Other people were employed as servants, etc. There must have been plenty of work or they wouldn't have had to import so many slaves and contract laborers.
             
            Leonard
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:57 AM
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

            Hi Mary,

            Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small population. 

            I checked a few things:

            a husbandman is an english term for a "free tenant farmer". It makes sense. I suspect the only jobs on the island were farming, being a soldier or being involved in trade or a sailor.

            Thanks for spotting this and passing it on.
             
            Regards

            Frank F Craig



            From: Mary King <mary25656@...>
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, 25 March, 2011 20:59:56
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

             

            Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
            Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
            Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
            I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


            From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

             

            I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
            Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
            Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
            Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
            1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
            2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
            3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
            4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
            5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
            6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
            7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
            8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

            I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
            Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


          • ajb500
            Hi Mary, Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I ve come across so far to Catherine Clingen s
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 28, 2011
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              Hi Mary,
              Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I've come across so far to Catherine Clingen's mother is on her death certificate in 1912. Catherine herself was illiterate and it's unlikely that she had any written records with reference to her mother so it's quite possible that her daughter Georgiana, who was the informant on the death certificate, made a mistake and confused Reid with Ridge. It seems improbable that there were two William Clingens on St. Helena at the same time, each married to an Elizabeth. Catherine Clingen was born about 1838 by my reckoning so may well be the younger sister of William (b1832) and James Isaac (b1833). Is there no record of Catherine's birth or baptism?
              I've looked at the India office Records family history search website and I see that an Elizabeth Ridge was baptised on St. Helena on 31st March 1816. She was the daughter of William Ridge and Fanny, slave of John Slater. William and Fanny had a son William in 1817. Fanny was then described as free. Louisa was born in 1819, daughter of William Ridge and Fanny Thomas. William and Fanny (Frances in the marriage entry) married in 1820 and there were at least two more children: Frances in 1821 and Caroline in 1822.
              Thank you again for your help. You've certainly opened up another line of enquiry for me.
              Regards,
              Andrew Begernie



              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Mary King <mary25656@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family
              > history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are
              > some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to
              > Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another
              > mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
              > Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June
              > 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
              > Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st
              > Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
              > I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I
              > let you know,good luck in your research.
            • Frank Craig
              Hi Andrew, Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 29, 2011
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                Hi Andrew,

                Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.

                I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off and post today.
                 
                Regards

                Frank F Craig



                From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 21:36:16
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                 

                Hi Mary,
                Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I've come across so far to Catherine Clingen's mother is on her death certificate in 1912. Catherine herself was illiterate and it's unlikely that she had any written records with reference to her mother so it's quite possible that her daughter Georgiana, who was the informant on the death certificate, made a mistake and confused Reid with Ridge. It seems improbable that there were two William Clingens on St. Helena at the same time, each married to an Elizabeth. Catherine Clingen was born about 1838 by my reckoning so may well be the younger sister of William (b1832) and James Isaac (b1833). Is there no record of Catherine's birth or baptism?
                I've looked at the India office Records family history search website and I see that an Elizabeth Ridge was baptised on St. Helena on 31st March 1816. She was the daughter of William Ridge and Fanny, slave of John Slater. William and Fanny had a son William in 1817. Fanny was then described as free. Louisa was born in 1819, daughter of William Ridge and Fanny Thomas. William and Fanny (Frances in the marriage entry) married in 1820 and there were at least two more children: Frances in 1821 and Caroline in 1822.
                Thank you again for your help. You've certainly opened up another line of enquiry for me.
                Regards,
                Andrew Begernie

                --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Mary King <mary25656@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family
                > history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are
                > some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to
                > Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another
                > mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                > Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June
                > 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                > Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st
                > Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                > I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I
                > let you know,good luck in your research.


              • ajb500
                Hi Frank, That s another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 29, 2011
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                  Hi Frank,
                  That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                  Regards,
                  Andrew

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Andrew,
                  >
                  > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                  > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                  > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                  > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                  > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                  >
                  > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                  > and post today.
                  > Regards
                  >
                  >
                  > Frank F Craig
                • Marian Press
                  Andrew: To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 29, 2011
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                    Andrew:

                     

                    To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

                     

                    Marian Press

                    Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

                     

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                    Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                     

                     

                    Hi Frank,
                    That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                    Regards,
                    Andrew

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Andrew,
                    >
                    > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                    > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                    > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                    > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                    > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                    >
                    > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                    > and post today.
                    > Regards
                    >
                    >
                    > Frank F Craig

                  • John Gardiner
                    Hi, Marian. Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 30, 2011
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                      Hi, Marian.
                       
                      Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his slave possibly from birth but certainly up until 1823-24 when she was sold to Captain Seale.  By this time, Margaret was also on the verge of marrying my greatx4 grandfather, Samuel Caesar, but it's possible she had already had a number of illegitimate children with Samuel stretching back as far as 1813, plus Thomas Greentree continued to own three slave children - Michael, Sophia and Margaret (Jnr?) - even after Margaret has been sold to Seale.
                       
                      Just wondered if you had any information you could share on Thomas Greentree and his life.
                       
                      Many thanks.
                       
                      John Gardiner 


                      From: Marian Press <marian.press@...>
                      To: "st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com" <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:21:56
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                       

                      Andrew:

                       

                      To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

                       

                      Marian Press

                      Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

                       

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                      Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                       

                       

                      Hi Frank,
                      That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                      Regards,
                      Andrew

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Andrew,
                      >
                      > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                      > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                      > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                      > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                      > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                      >
                      > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                      > and post today.
                      > Regards
                      >
                      >
                      > Frank F Craig

                    • Marian Press
                      John: Oh dear! This is quite a posting – to hear concrete news about one’s ancestors owning slaves, although I know they did on Saint Helena. I can
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 1 5:12 AM
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                        John: Oh dear! This is quite a posting – to hear concrete news about one’s ancestors owning slaves, although I know they did on Saint Helena.

                         

                        I can certainly give you information on Thomas Greentree (although there was more than one and we will need to work out which one we are talking about exactly). None of the Thomases were my direct ancestor, but whichever he was he was a close relative of my ancestor, Margaret Greentree.

                         

                        Can you email me off list at marian.press@... and I can send you information.

                         

                        Marian

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:02 PM
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                         

                         

                        Hi, Marian.

                         

                        Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his slave possibly from birth but certainly up until 1823-24 when she was sold to Captain Seale.  By this time, Margaret was also on the verge of marrying my greatx4 grandfather, Samuel Caesar, but it's possible she had already had a number of illegitimate children with Samuel stretching back as far as 1813, plus Thomas Greentree continued to own three slave children - Michael, Sophia and Margaret (Jnr?) - even after Margaret has been sold to Seale.

                         

                        Just wondered if you had any information you could share on Thomas Greentree and his life.

                         

                        Many thanks.

                         

                        John Gardiner 

                         


                        From: Marian Press <marian.press@...>
                        To: "st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com" <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:21:56
                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                         

                        Andrew:

                         

                        To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

                         

                        Marian Press

                        Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

                         

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                        Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                         

                         

                        Hi Frank,
                        That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                        Regards,
                        Andrew

                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Andrew,
                        >
                        > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                        > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                        > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                        > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                        > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                        >
                        > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                        > and post today.
                        > Regards
                        >
                        >
                        > Frank F Craig

                      • ajb500
                        Hi Frank, Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all. If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 1 1:51 PM
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                          Hi Frank,
                          Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                          If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                          I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                          Regards,
                          Andrew

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Andrew,
                          >
                          > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                          > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                          > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                          > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                          > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                          >
                          > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                          > and post today.
                          > Regards
                          >
                          >
                          > Frank F Craig
                        • frankfcraig@yahoo.co.uk
                          Hi Andrew, I don t know about the military records but you are right - there is likely material in there to analyse. Good luck with your study! Sent using
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 1 2:09 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Andrew,

                            I don't know about the military records but you are right - there is likely material in there to analyse.

                            Good luck with your study!

                            Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange


                            From: "ajb500" <ajb500@...>
                            Sender: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 20:51:35 -0000
                            To: <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                            ReplyTo: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] William Ridge and William Clingen in the St. Helena Artillery

                             

                            Hi Frank,
                            Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                            If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                            I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                            Regards,
                            Andrew

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Andrew,
                            >
                            > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                            > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                            > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                            > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                            > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                            >
                            > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                            > and post today.
                            > Regards
                            >
                            >
                            > Frank F Craig

                          • foxhome
                            Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and artillery in the British Library Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd floor) The
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 2 9:41 AM
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                              Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and artillery in the British Library  Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd floor)

                              The indexes are on line at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1&cid=1-1-1#1-1-1

                              Or search on ‘St Helena muster rolls’  on the National Archives web site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ and click on

                              St Helena Records IOR/L/MIL/13

                               

                              The volumes handwritten are about 3 ins thick. There is a return for each battalion every quarter year 1789 to 1859

                              You can track the career of your ancestor from when he arrived at the island until his discharge. If he received a pension he may be appear in other volumes. The staff at the library are very helpful and will give you lots of help if you ask. If you phone before hand you may be able to order volumes to be ready when you arrive (first time readers will need to get a pass – a quick and easy process). If you order them when you get there it will take 70mins for the items to arrive.

                              Try and avoid busy times – Sat mornings, bank hols etc.

                               

                              Hope this helps

                               

                              Colin

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                              Sent: 01 April 2011 21:52
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] William Ridge and William Clingen in the St. Helena Artillery

                               

                               

                              Hi Frank,
                              Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                              If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                              I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                              Regards,
                              Andrew

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Andrew,
                              >
                              > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                              > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                              > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                              > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                              > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                              >
                              > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                              > and post today.
                              > Regards
                              >
                              >
                              > Frank F Craig

                            • ajb500
                              Colin, Thank you for the information about the Muster Rolls. I will have to visit the British Library one day to search for William Ridge s and William
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 4 1:11 PM
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                                Colin,
                                Thank you for the information about the Muster Rolls. I will have to visit the British Library one day to search for William Ridge's and William Clingen's military records.
                                Andrew

                                --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and
                                > artillery in the British Library Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd
                                > floor)
                                >
                                > The indexes are on line at
                                > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1
                                > <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1&cid
                                > =1-1-1#1-1-1> &cid=1-1-1#1-1-1
                                >
                                > Or search on 'St Helena muster rolls' on the National Archives web site
                                > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ and click on
                                >
                                > St Helena Records IOR/L/MIL/13
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The volumes handwritten are about 3 ins thick. There is a return for each
                                > battalion every quarter year 1789 to 1859
                                >
                                > You can track the career of your ancestor from when he arrived at the island
                                > until his discharge. If he received a pension he may be appear in other
                                > volumes. The staff at the library are very helpful and will give you lots of
                                > help if you ask. If you phone before hand you may be able to order volumes
                                > to be ready when you arrive (first time readers will need to get a pass - a
                                > quick and easy process). If you order them when you get there it will take
                                > 70mins for the items to arrive.
                                >
                                > Try and avoid busy times - Sat mornings, bank hols etc.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hope this helps
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Colin
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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