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Devlins, Clingens & Reids

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  • ajb500
    I ve just startewd researching my girlfriend s family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 22 7:39 AM
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      I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
      Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
      Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
      Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
      1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
      2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
      3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
      4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
      5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
      6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
      7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
      8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

      I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
      Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.
    • Frank Craig
      Hi, I am a descendent of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clinning/Clingan/Clairemont (etc - dependent on the scripter of the relevant birth and death certificate).
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 22 12:32 PM
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        Hi,

        I am a descendent of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clinning/Clingan/Clairemont (etc - dependent on the scripter of the relevant birth and death certificate). I have the genealogy of Devlin/Clingan family going forward - as many of their descendents are now Scottish.

        They likely emigrated to Scotland as Saint Helena lost a lot of jobs/traffic due to the introduction of new ships that no longer had to stop off there to stock up on coal.

        I am happy to send over more information. There are a number of books on Saint Helena available on a Saint Helena website that could be useful

        Regards

        Frank F Craig

        --- On Tue, 22/3/11, ajb500 <ajb500@...> wrote:

        From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, 22 March, 2011, 14:39

         

        I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
        Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
        Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
        Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
        1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
        2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
        3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
        4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
        5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
        6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
        7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
        8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

        I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
        Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


      • Frank Craig
        Hi, I can comment on your records below. I obtained all of my data from original certificates but in some case had to extrapolate dates from censuses or later
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 22 1:02 PM
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          Hi,

          I can comment on your records below. I obtained all of my data from original certificates but in some case had to extrapolate dates from censuses or later records. In some cases, people lied about their ages when they were older so appear younger than what they perhaps were. Also, illiteracy was common in those days and people may have got dates out by a year or two?

          Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private. CORRECT.

          Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner. MY ESTIMATE WAS HE WAS BORN IN 1839 (GUESSED FROM CENSUS OR MARRIAGE RECORDS - AS NO BIRTH RECORDS).


          Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier. SHE WAS BORN IN 1833 FROM HER MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE (OBTAINED FROM SAINT HELENA RECORDS OFFICE). I RECKON THEIR REAL NAME WAS CLINGHAM AND ALL THE VARIATION WERE MIS-SPELLINGS DONE BY PEOPLE SPELLING THINGS PHONETICALLY AND LIKELY NONE OF THE DEVLINS WERE LITERATE SO DIDNT CORRECT THEM?

          Henry and Catherine had at least eight children

          1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.

          2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary. CORRECT. BORN ON 14TH MAY 1863 ON SAINT HELENA. I KNEW ABOUT CATHERINE BORN 26 JANUARY 1887.

          3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE. 

          4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942. I HAVE THAT SHE WAS BORN IN GLASGOW IN 1863. COULD BE A DIFFERENT ONE (MAYBE MY ONE DIED YOUNG?) OR ONE OF OUR RECORDS IS WRONG?

          5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875. I HAVE 6TH OF JUNE 1875.

          6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878. I HAVE 1877.

          7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883. YES, I HAVE 1881.

          8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.



          Regards

          Frank F Craig

          --- On Tue, 22/3/11, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:

          From: Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...>
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, 22 March, 2011, 19:32

           

          Hi,

          I am a descendent of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clinning/Clingan/Clairemont (etc - dependent on the scripter of the relevant birth and death certificate). I have the genealogy of Devlin/Clingan family going forward - as many of their descendents are now Scottish.

          They likely emigrated to Scotland as Saint Helena lost a lot of jobs/traffic due to the introduction of new ships that no longer had to stop off there to stock up on coal.

          I am happy to send over more information. There are a number of books on Saint Helena available on a Saint Helena website that could be useful

          Regards

          Frank F Craig

          --- On Tue, 22/3/11, ajb500 <ajb500@...> wrote:

          From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, 22 March, 2011, 14:39

           

          I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
          Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
          Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
          Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
          1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
          2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
          3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
          4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
          5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
          6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
          7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
          8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

          I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
          Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.



        • ajb500
          Hi Frank, Thank you for responding so promptly to my message. I would certainly like to see your Devlin family tree at some point and to find out about
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 23 3:08 AM
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            Hi Frank,
            Thank you for responding so promptly to my message. I would certainly like to see your Devlin family tree at some point and to find out about descendents living in Scotland - my girlfriend is Scottish though she's living in England at the moment.
            I'll make a few comments now on the children of Henry and Catherine.
            1. Mary Ann
            I first encountered her in the 1871 Census. Aged 11 and born in St. Helena. (OPR644/02 034/00 020). I guessed that the Mary Thomson living with the Devlins in 1881 was the same person. She was 21 and had been born on St. Helena. Then I found the marriage to James Thomson in 1879. I haven't had time yet to look for them in later censuses to find out if they had any children. Too many other lines of enquiry!
            2. Catherine
            Thank you for the birth dates of Catherine and her daughter Catherine. Could you let me know the details from the St. Helena registers at some point?
            3. Henry
            Henry was also in the 1871 Census with Mary Ann. Aged 4 and born in Agra. I have since found his birth thanks to the IGI and the Family Search website. I have a copy of his death certificate.
            4. Alice
            I have copies of her birth and death certificates and the certificate of her marriage to William Walker. (I haven't found her marriage to William McDermott yet. Indexed wrongly?) She was definitely born in 1872. At first sight it looks as if she is 18 on the 1881 Census but the 1 has been crossed out with a single stroke and the 8 has not been touched. To me this looks different from the other crossings out on the same page by the enumerator. The ages on this census are a muddle. Alice was 8, not 18. Catherine was 18 but is said to be 21. Mary Ann was 21 but is not shown directly after her mother. She is shown at the end after her husband James!
            5. Henrietta
            Yes, you are right. She was born on 6th June 1875. A transcription error on my part. Last night I found her marriage to Peter McDonagh, coal miner, in Blythswood, Glasgow, on 10th April 1896.
            6. Henry
            I have a copy of his birth certificate. He was born on 30th January 1878.
            7. Georgina
            I have copies of her birth and death certificates. Fortunately Georgina isn't a very common name in Scotland so they were quite easy to find.
            8. Georgina
            Ages for adults in 19th century records are often inaccurate but I've found that children's ages are usually correct. When I found a Georgina Devlin aged 6 in the 1891 Census (OPR644/14 05300 003) I realised that there must have been another child called Georgina and found her birth certificate. Last night I found her marriage to Joseph Moore, hammerman, in Milton, Glasgow, on 3rd January 1908.

            I don't know how well-educated the Devlins were but as far as I know Mary Ann was the only one who signed with her mark. Catherine Clingen seems to have been illiterate and her surname is spelt many different ways (Clingen, Clingan, Clinging, Cleland etc.) when she is the informant on certificates.
            Thank you for letting me know the date of Catherine Clingen's birth. Would she have been a minor when she married in 1856?
            I think that's everything for the moment. I look forward to hearing from you when you have time.
            Regards,
            Andrew Begernie


            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > I can comment on your records below. I obtained all of my data from original
            > certificates but in some case had to extrapolate dates from censuses or later
            > records. In some cases, people lied about their ages when they were older so
            > appear younger than what they perhaps were. Also, illiteracy was common in those
            > days and people may have got dates out by a year or two?
            >
            > Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and
            > Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According
            > to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a
            > private. CORRECT.
            >
            > Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin
            > and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at
            > various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an
            > army pensioner. MY ESTIMATE WAS HE WAS BORN IN 1839 (GUESSED FROM CENSUS OR
            > MARRIAGE RECORDS - AS NO BIRTH RECORDS).
            >
            >
            > Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in
            > 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to
            > Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier. SHE WAS BORN IN 1833 FROM
            > HER MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE (OBTAINED FROM SAINT HELENA RECORDS OFFICE). I RECKON
            > THEIR REAL NAME WAS CLINGHAM AND ALL THE VARIATION WERE MIS-SPELLINGS DONE BY
            > PEOPLE SPELLING THINGS PHONETICALLY AND LIKELY NONE OF THE DEVLINS WERE LITERATE
            > SO DIDNT CORRECT THEM?
            >
            > Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
            >
            > 1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson
            > in Glasgow on 18th July 1879. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
            >
            > 2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan
            > in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and
            > Mary. CORRECT. BORN ON 14TH MAY 1863 ON SAINT HELENA. I KNEW ABOUT CATHERINE
            > BORN 26 JANUARY 1887.
            >
            > 3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow
            > on 15th April 1875. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
            >
            > 4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William
            > McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942. I
            > HAVE THAT SHE WAS BORN IN GLASGOW IN 1863. COULD BE A DIFFERENT ONE (MAYBE MY
            > ONE DIED YOUNG?) OR ONE OF OUR RECORDS IS WRONG?
            >
            > 5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875. I HAVE 6TH OF JUNE 1875.
            >
            > 6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878. I HAVE 1877.
            >
            > 7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
            > YES, I HAVE 1881.
            >
            > 8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
            >
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Frank F Craig
          • Frank Craig
            Hi Andrew, If you want I can mail you a print off of the Devlin/Clingham line that I know of? What is your address and I will post you a copy of name, birth,
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 25 10:12 AM
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              Hi Andrew,

              If you want I can mail you a print off of the Devlin/Clingham line that I know of? What is your address and I will post you a copy of name, birth, death, marriage, address? Catherine wasn't a minor when married, she was 23 and Devlin was older than she was. I have no evidence of any Clingham guarding Napoleon. However, there are Clinghams still on Saint Helena - likely from Catherine's family who did not emigrate.
               
              Regards

              Frank F Craig



              From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, 23 March, 2011 10:08:15
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

               


              Hi Frank,
              Thank you for responding so promptly to my message. I would certainly like to see your Devlin family tree at some point and to find out about descendents living in Scotland - my girlfriend is Scottish though she's living in England at the moment.
              I'll make a few comments now on the children of Henry and Catherine.
              1. Mary Ann
              I first encountered her in the 1871 Census. Aged 11 and born in St. Helena. (OPR644/02 034/00 020). I guessed that the Mary Thomson living with the Devlins in 1881 was the same person. She was 21 and had been born on St. Helena. Then I found the marriage to James Thomson in 1879. I haven't had time yet to look for them in later censuses to find out if they had any children. Too many other lines of enquiry!
              2. Catherine
              Thank you for the birth dates of Catherine and her daughter Catherine. Could you let me know the details from the St. Helena registers at some point?
              3. Henry
              Henry was also in the 1871 Census with Mary Ann. Aged 4 and born in Agra. I have since found his birth thanks to the IGI and the Family Search website. I have a copy of his death certificate.
              4. Alice
              I have copies of her birth and death certificates and the certificate of her marriage to William Walker. (I haven't found her marriage to William McDermott yet. Indexed wrongly?) She was definitely born in 1872. At first sight it looks as if she is 18 on the 1881 Census but the 1 has been crossed out with a single stroke and the 8 has not been touched. To me this looks different from the other crossings out on the same page by the enumerator. The ages on this census are a muddle. Alice was 8, not 18. Catherine was 18 but is said to be 21. Mary Ann was 21 but is not shown directly after her mother. She is shown at the end after her husband James!
              5. Henrietta
              Yes, you are right. She was born on 6th June 1875. A transcription error on my part. Last night I found her marriage to Peter McDonagh, coal miner, in Blythswood, Glasgow, on 10th April 1896.
              6. Henry
              I have a copy of his birth certificate. He was born on 30th January 1878.
              7. Georgina
              I have copies of her birth and death certificates. Fortunately Georgina isn't a very common name in Scotland so they were quite easy to find.
              8. Georgina
              Ages for adults in 19th century records are often inaccurate but I've found that children's ages are usually correct. When I found a Georgina Devlin aged 6 in the 1891 Census (OPR644/14 05300 003) I realised that there must have been another child called Georgina and found her birth certificate. Last night I found her marriage to Joseph Moore, hammerman, in Milton, Glasgow, on 3rd January 1908.

              I don't know how well-educated the Devlins were but as far as I know Mary Ann was the only one who signed with her mark. Catherine Clingen seems to have been illiterate and her surname is spelt many different ways (Clingen, Clingan, Clinging, Cleland etc.) when she is the informant on certificates.
              Thank you for letting me know the date of Catherine Clingen's birth. Would she have been a minor when she married in 1856?
              I think that's everything for the moment. I look forward to hearing from you when you have time.
              Regards,
              Andrew Begernie

              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > I can comment on your records below. I obtained all of my data from original
              > certificates but in some case had to extrapolate dates from censuses or later
              > records. In some cases, people lied about their ages when they were older so
              > appear younger than what they perhaps were. Also, illiteracy was common in those
              > days and people may have got dates out by a year or two?
              >
              > Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and
              > Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According
              > to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a
              > private. CORRECT.
              >
              > Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin
              > and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at
              > various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an
              > army pensioner. MY ESTIMATE WAS HE WAS BORN IN 1839 (GUESSED FROM CENSUS OR
              > MARRIAGE RECORDS - AS NO BIRTH RECORDS).
              >
              >
              > Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in
              > 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to
              > Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier. SHE WAS BORN IN 1833 FROM
              > HER MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE (OBTAINED FROM SAINT HELENA RECORDS OFFICE). I RECKON
              > THEIR REAL NAME WAS CLINGHAM AND ALL THE VARIATION WERE MIS-SPELLINGS DONE BY
              > PEOPLE SPELLING THINGS PHONETICALLY AND LIKELY NONE OF THE DEVLINS WERE LITERATE
              > SO DIDNT CORRECT THEM?
              >
              > Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
              >
              > 1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson
              > in Glasgow on 18th July 1879. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
              >
              > 2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan
              > in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and
              > Mary. CORRECT. BORN ON 14TH MAY 1863 ON SAINT HELENA. I KNEW ABOUT CATHERINE
              > BORN 26 JANUARY 1887.
              >
              > 3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow
              > on 15th April 1875. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
              >
              > 4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William
              > McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942. I
              > HAVE THAT SHE WAS BORN IN GLASGOW IN 1863. COULD BE A DIFFERENT ONE (MAYBE MY
              > ONE DIED YOUNG?) OR ONE OF OUR RECORDS IS WRONG?
              >
              > 5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875. I HAVE 6TH OF JUNE 1875.
              >
              > 6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878. I HAVE 1877.
              >
              > 7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
              > YES, I HAVE 1881.
              >
              > 8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
              >
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Frank F Craig


            • Mary King
              Hi I don t know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 25 1:59 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


                From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                 

                I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
                Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
                Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
                Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
                1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
                2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
                3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
                4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
                5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
                6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
                7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
                8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

                I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
                Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.

              • Frank Craig
                Hi Mary, Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 26 10:57 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Mary,

                  Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small population. 

                  I checked a few things:

                  a husbandman is an english term for a "free tenant farmer". It makes sense. I suspect the only jobs on the island were farming, being a soldier or being involved in trade or a sailor.

                  Thanks for spotting this and passing it on.
                   
                  Regards

                  Frank F Craig



                  From: Mary King <mary25656@...>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, 25 March, 2011 20:59:56
                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                   

                  Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                  Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                  Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                  I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


                  From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                   

                  I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
                  Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
                  Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
                  Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
                  1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
                  2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
                  3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
                  4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
                  5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
                  6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
                  7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
                  8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

                  I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
                  Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


                • Mary King
                  Hi Frank, I wondered what the term husbandman meant, anyway your welcome, good luck with your research. regards Mary. ________________________________ From:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 27 11:43 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Frank, I wondered what the term husbandman meant, anyway your welcome, good luck with your research.
                    regards Mary.


                    From: Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, 26 March, 2011 17:57:24
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                     

                    Hi Mary,

                    Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small population. 

                    I checked a few things:

                    a husbandman is an english term for a "free tenant farmer". It makes sense. I suspect the only jobs on the island were farming, being a soldier or being involved in trade or a sailor.

                    Thanks for spotting this and passing it on.
                     
                    Regards

                    Frank F Craig



                    From: Mary King <mary25656@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, 25 March, 2011 20:59:56
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                     

                    Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                    Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                    Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                    I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


                    From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                     

                    I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
                    Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
                    Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
                    Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
                    1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
                    2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
                    3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
                    4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
                    5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
                    6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
                    7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
                    8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

                    I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
                    Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


                  • Leonard Meek
                    Frank, there were other jobs on the island. My ancestors (Maggott/Magnett) apparently worked for the East India Company in public works as carpenters and stone
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 27 3:14 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      
                      Frank, there were other jobs on the island. My ancestors (Maggott/Magnett) apparently worked for the East India Company in public works as carpenters and stone masons. Other people were employed as servants, etc. There must have been plenty of work or they wouldn't have had to import so many slaves and contract laborers.
                       
                      Leonard
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:57 AM
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                      Hi Mary,

                      Yes, you are right. Its the same family, roughly within the same decade and a couple is unlikely to have the same names in an island with such a small population. 

                      I checked a few things:

                      a husbandman is an english term for a "free tenant farmer". It makes sense. I suspect the only jobs on the island were farming, being a soldier or being involved in trade or a sailor.

                      Thanks for spotting this and passing it on.
                       
                      Regards

                      Frank F Craig



                      From: Mary King <mary25656@...>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, 25 March, 2011 20:59:56
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                       

                      Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                      Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                      Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                      I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I let you know,good luck in your research.


                      From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 14:39:40
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

                       

                      I've just startewd researching my girlfriend's family history. According to family tradition one of her ancestors guarded Napoleon on St. Helena. This may just be a story but I have found a connection to St. Helena. Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a private.
                      Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an army pensioner.
                      Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier.
                      Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
                      1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson in Glasgow on 18th July 1879.
                      2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and Mary.
                      3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow on 15th April 1875.
                      4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942.
                      5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875.
                      6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878.
                      7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
                      8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884.

                      I'd be happy to supply more details if requested.
                      Does anybody have more information about these families, particularly with regard to St. Helena? Did Catherine Clingen (the name is spelt in several different ways) have any siblings? Were her parents married on St. Helena? Does anybody have any information about Henry Devlin's army career? Can anybody recommend any books on the history of St. Helena, particularly with regard to the army in the first half of the nineteenth century? I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching the same families or is able to let me know what resources are available to help me pursue my enquiries.


                    • ajb500
                      Hi Mary, Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I ve come across so far to Catherine Clingen s
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 28 1:36 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Mary,
                        Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I've come across so far to Catherine Clingen's mother is on her death certificate in 1912. Catherine herself was illiterate and it's unlikely that she had any written records with reference to her mother so it's quite possible that her daughter Georgiana, who was the informant on the death certificate, made a mistake and confused Reid with Ridge. It seems improbable that there were two William Clingens on St. Helena at the same time, each married to an Elizabeth. Catherine Clingen was born about 1838 by my reckoning so may well be the younger sister of William (b1832) and James Isaac (b1833). Is there no record of Catherine's birth or baptism?
                        I've looked at the India office Records family history search website and I see that an Elizabeth Ridge was baptised on St. Helena on 31st March 1816. She was the daughter of William Ridge and Fanny, slave of John Slater. William and Fanny had a son William in 1817. Fanny was then described as free. Louisa was born in 1819, daughter of William Ridge and Fanny Thomas. William and Fanny (Frances in the marriage entry) married in 1820 and there were at least two more children: Frances in 1821 and Caroline in 1822.
                        Thank you again for your help. You've certainly opened up another line of enquiry for me.
                        Regards,
                        Andrew Begernie



                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Mary King <mary25656@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family
                        > history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are
                        > some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to
                        > Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another
                        > mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                        > Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June
                        > 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                        > Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st
                        > Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                        > I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I
                        > let you know,good luck in your research.
                      • Frank Craig
                        Hi Andrew, Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 29 3:08 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Andrew,

                          Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.

                          I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off and post today.
                           
                          Regards

                          Frank F Craig



                          From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 21:36:16
                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                           

                          Hi Mary,
                          Thank you very much for your message and the information about Elizabeth Ridge. The only reference I've come across so far to Catherine Clingen's mother is on her death certificate in 1912. Catherine herself was illiterate and it's unlikely that she had any written records with reference to her mother so it's quite possible that her daughter Georgiana, who was the informant on the death certificate, made a mistake and confused Reid with Ridge. It seems improbable that there were two William Clingens on St. Helena at the same time, each married to an Elizabeth. Catherine Clingen was born about 1838 by my reckoning so may well be the younger sister of William (b1832) and James Isaac (b1833). Is there no record of Catherine's birth or baptism?
                          I've looked at the India office Records family history search website and I see that an Elizabeth Ridge was baptised on St. Helena on 31st March 1816. She was the daughter of William Ridge and Fanny, slave of John Slater. William and Fanny had a son William in 1817. Fanny was then described as free. Louisa was born in 1819, daughter of William Ridge and Fanny Thomas. William and Fanny (Frances in the marriage entry) married in 1820 and there were at least two more children: Frances in 1821 and Caroline in 1822.
                          Thank you again for your help. You've certainly opened up another line of enquiry for me.
                          Regards,
                          Andrew Begernie

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Mary King <mary25656@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi I don't know if this is of any interest to you in your search for your family
                          > history,but on the India Office Records family history search website,there are
                          > some entries for Clingens,one showing a marriage between a William Clingen to
                          > Elizabeth Ridge (I know you said the name was Reid),but maybe another
                          > mis-spelling.date 29 March 1831.Williams status is listed as St.Helena Art.
                          > Then an entry for a William Clingen birth 4th May 1832. baptism 10th June
                          > 1832.then sadly burial 24th July 1832.parents William husbandman and Elizabeth.
                          > Also an enrty for James Issac Clingen.birth 2nd Oct. 1833. baptism 31st
                          > Oct.1833.same parents as above,and the same occupation for the Father.
                          > I have no idea if these are any connection to your Clingens,but just thought I
                          > let you know,good luck in your research.


                        • ajb500
                          Hi Frank, That s another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 29 7:21 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Frank,
                            That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                            Regards,
                            Andrew

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Andrew,
                            >
                            > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                            > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                            > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                            > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                            > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                            >
                            > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                            > and post today.
                            > Regards
                            >
                            >
                            > Frank F Craig
                          • Marian Press
                            Andrew: To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 29 8:21 AM
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Andrew:

                               

                              To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

                               

                              Marian Press

                              Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

                               

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                              Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                               

                               

                              Hi Frank,
                              That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                              Regards,
                              Andrew

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Andrew,
                              >
                              > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                              > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                              > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                              > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                              > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                              >
                              > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                              > and post today.
                              > Regards
                              >
                              >
                              > Frank F Craig

                            • John Gardiner
                              Hi, Marian. Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 30 10:02 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi, Marian.
                                 
                                Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his slave possibly from birth but certainly up until 1823-24 when she was sold to Captain Seale.  By this time, Margaret was also on the verge of marrying my greatx4 grandfather, Samuel Caesar, but it's possible she had already had a number of illegitimate children with Samuel stretching back as far as 1813, plus Thomas Greentree continued to own three slave children - Michael, Sophia and Margaret (Jnr?) - even after Margaret has been sold to Seale.
                                 
                                Just wondered if you had any information you could share on Thomas Greentree and his life.
                                 
                                Many thanks.
                                 
                                John Gardiner 


                                From: Marian Press <marian.press@...>
                                To: "st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com" <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:21:56
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                                 

                                Andrew:

                                 

                                To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

                                 

                                Marian Press

                                Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

                                 

                                 

                                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                                Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                                 

                                 

                                Hi Frank,
                                That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                                Regards,
                                Andrew

                                --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Andrew,
                                >
                                > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                                > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                                > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                                > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                                > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                                >
                                > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                                > and post today.
                                > Regards
                                >
                                >
                                > Frank F Craig

                              • Marian Press
                                John: Oh dear! This is quite a posting – to hear concrete news about one’s ancestors owning slaves, although I know they did on Saint Helena. I can
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  John: Oh dear! This is quite a posting – to hear concrete news about one’s ancestors owning slaves, although I know they did on Saint Helena.

                                   

                                  I can certainly give you information on Thomas Greentree (although there was more than one and we will need to work out which one we are talking about exactly). None of the Thomases were my direct ancestor, but whichever he was he was a close relative of my ancestor, Margaret Greentree.

                                   

                                  Can you email me off list at marian.press@... and I can send you information.

                                   

                                  Marian

                                   

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:02 PM
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi, Marian.

                                   

                                  Interested to see you are researching the Greentree family.  Thomas Greentree appears to have owned my greatx4 grandmother, Margaret, who was his slave possibly from birth but certainly up until 1823-24 when she was sold to Captain Seale.  By this time, Margaret was also on the verge of marrying my greatx4 grandfather, Samuel Caesar, but it's possible she had already had a number of illegitimate children with Samuel stretching back as far as 1813, plus Thomas Greentree continued to own three slave children - Michael, Sophia and Margaret (Jnr?) - even after Margaret has been sold to Seale.

                                   

                                  Just wondered if you had any information you could share on Thomas Greentree and his life.

                                   

                                  Many thanks.

                                   

                                  John Gardiner 

                                   


                                  From: Marian Press <marian.press@...>
                                  To: "st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com" <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:21:56
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                                   

                                  Andrew:

                                   

                                  To get some good (early) histories of St. Helena, try the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) and choose the link to Texts. If you put St Helena in the search box you will be able to read and download full-text, out-of-copyright books.

                                   

                                  Marian Press

                                  Researching GREENTREE, SKOTTOWE on St. Helena

                                   

                                   

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                                  Sent: March 29, 2011 10:22 AM
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Catherine Clingen, William Ridge and Fanny Thomas

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Frank,
                                  That's another interesting message. I look forward to receiving your Family Tree Maker chart. I must try to obtain a good book on the history of St. Helena so that I can learn more about life on the island in the first half of the nineteenth century.
                                  Regards,
                                  Andrew

                                  --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Andrew,
                                  >
                                  > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                                  > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                                  > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                                  > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                                  > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                                  >
                                  > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                                  > and post today.
                                  > Regards
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Frank F Craig

                                • ajb500
                                  Hi Frank, Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all. If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St.
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                    Hi Frank,
                                    Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                                    If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                                    I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                                    Regards,
                                    Andrew

                                    --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi Andrew,
                                    >
                                    > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                                    > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                                    > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                                    > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                                    > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                                    >
                                    > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                                    > and post today.
                                    > Regards
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Frank F Craig
                                  • frankfcraig@yahoo.co.uk
                                    Hi Andrew, I don t know about the military records but you are right - there is likely material in there to analyse. Good luck with your study! Sent using
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                      Hi Andrew,

                                      I don't know about the military records but you are right - there is likely material in there to analyse.

                                      Good luck with your study!

                                      Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange


                                      From: "ajb500" <ajb500@...>
                                      Sender: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 20:51:35 -0000
                                      To: <st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                                      ReplyTo: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] William Ridge and William Clingen in the St. Helena Artillery

                                       

                                      Hi Frank,
                                      Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                                      If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                                      I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                                      Regards,
                                      Andrew

                                      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Andrew,
                                      >
                                      > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                                      > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                                      > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                                      > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                                      > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                                      >
                                      > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                                      > and post today.
                                      > Regards
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Frank F Craig

                                    • foxhome
                                      Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and artillery in the British Library Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd floor) The
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 2, 2011
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                                        Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and artillery in the British Library  Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd floor)

                                        The indexes are on line at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1&cid=1-1-1#1-1-1

                                        Or search on ‘St Helena muster rolls’  on the National Archives web site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ and click on

                                        St Helena Records IOR/L/MIL/13

                                         

                                        The volumes handwritten are about 3 ins thick. There is a return for each battalion every quarter year 1789 to 1859

                                        You can track the career of your ancestor from when he arrived at the island until his discharge. If he received a pension he may be appear in other volumes. The staff at the library are very helpful and will give you lots of help if you ask. If you phone before hand you may be able to order volumes to be ready when you arrive (first time readers will need to get a pass – a quick and easy process). If you order them when you get there it will take 70mins for the items to arrive.

                                        Try and avoid busy times – Sat mornings, bank hols etc.

                                         

                                        Hope this helps

                                         

                                        Colin

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb500
                                        Sent: 01 April 2011 21:52
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] William Ridge and William Clingen in the St. Helena Artillery

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi Frank,
                                        Thank you very much for the charts which arrived today. It will take me a while to study them all.
                                        If William Ridge served as a sergeant in the St. Helena Artillery (as evidenced by the record of his marriage to Frances Thomas) there are presumably records somewhere of his enlistment and his career. Similarly there should be records of William Clingen's service in the St. Helena regiment. Would these be in the East India Company archives? Have they been indexed? Are any of them searchable online? (I expect not, otherwise you would probably have looked already.)
                                        I was interested to see that your grandparents were Robert Gregory, son of Henrietta Devlin, and Ellen Connor, daughter of Richard Connor. Janet's grandmother was Mary Ann Elizabeth McDermott, daughter of Alice Devlin and hence Robert Gregory's cousin, and her grandfather was Richard Connor, brother of Ellen.
                                        Regards,
                                        Andrew

                                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi Andrew,
                                        >
                                        > Yes, I have dug into that area. Fanny was likely of Asian origin. The slaves on
                                        > the island were either African, Indian or from Madagascar ( a hotch-potch of
                                        > Africans, Asians and Indians, sailors and traders. I can say that she is likely
                                        > Indian/East Asian (and not African) as I had a DNA genealogy blood test done and
                                        > I was 85% European and 15% East Asian with 0% African.
                                        >
                                        > I have included all of this in the FamilyTreeMaker chart which I will print off
                                        > and post today.
                                        > Regards
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Frank F Craig

                                      • ajb500
                                        Colin, Thank you for the information about the Muster Rolls. I will have to visit the British Library one day to search for William Ridge s and William
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Apr 4, 2011
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                                          Colin,
                                          Thank you for the information about the Muster Rolls. I will have to visit the British Library one day to search for William Ridge's and William Clingen's military records.
                                          Andrew

                                          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Andrew, You can find the muster rolls for the St Helena infantry and
                                          > artillery in the British Library Asia, Pacific and African collection (3rd
                                          > floor)
                                          >
                                          > The indexes are on line at
                                          > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1
                                          > <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=059-iorlmil_8-1&cid
                                          > =1-1-1#1-1-1> &cid=1-1-1#1-1-1
                                          >
                                          > Or search on 'St Helena muster rolls' on the National Archives web site
                                          > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ and click on
                                          >
                                          > St Helena Records IOR/L/MIL/13
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > The volumes handwritten are about 3 ins thick. There is a return for each
                                          > battalion every quarter year 1789 to 1859
                                          >
                                          > You can track the career of your ancestor from when he arrived at the island
                                          > until his discharge. If he received a pension he may be appear in other
                                          > volumes. The staff at the library are very helpful and will give you lots of
                                          > help if you ask. If you phone before hand you may be able to order volumes
                                          > to be ready when you arrive (first time readers will need to get a pass - a
                                          > quick and easy process). If you order them when you get there it will take
                                          > 70mins for the items to arrive.
                                          >
                                          > Try and avoid busy times - Sat mornings, bank hols etc.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Hope this helps
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Colin
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
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