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RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • foxhome
    Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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      Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

       

      Colin

       

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value £

      Remarks

      65

      Capt Broadway

      Jacob George

      43

      Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

      65

       

      179

      Mr Darling

      James George

      9

      A house boy

      25

       

      180

      Mr Darling

      Peggy George

      22

      House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

      30

       

      181

      Mr Darling

      John George

      20

      A good cook and very useful servant

      90

       

      183

      Mr Darling

      Jacob George

      17

      A good waiting servant

      70

       

      208

      Mr Dring

      Sarah George

      22

      Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

       

      Not valued No 5

      246

      Mr Janisch

      Louisa George

      11

      Useful little girl

      20

       

      273

      Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

      May George

      33

      A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

      105

       

      277

      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

      John George

      37

      First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

      105

       

      279

      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

      Frances George

      10

      Useful farm boy

      30

       

      281

      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

      Nanny George

      36

      Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

      20

       

      378

      Mr Mulhall

      Lucy George

      28

      Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

      30

       

      379

      Mr Mulhall

      Mary George (dau of Lucy)

      13

      A very useful house girl

      30

       

      428

      Major D K Pritchard

      Charles George

      34

      A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

      105

       

      429

      Mr H T Seale

      Jane George

      43

      Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

      30

       

      433

      Dr Lorimer

      Martha George

      16

      Useful house servant good character

      30

       

      483

      Miss Mason

      Susan George

      24

      Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

      20

       

      498

      Mr B Solomon

      Benj George

      10

      Useful houseboy

      35

       

      501

      Mr S Solomon

      Dolly George

      17

      Needlewoman and nurse

      25

       

      519

      Mr William Seale jun.

      Nancy George

      26

      Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

      25

       

      525

      Major Seale

      Sally George

      22

      Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

      40

       

      534

      Major Seale

      Ruth George

      18

      A good house servant

      30

       

      535

      Major Seale

      Martha George

      13

      A good house servant

      25

       

      541

      Major Seale

      James George

      32

      Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

       

      Not valued No 11

      542

      Major Seale

      Benj George

      18

      Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

       

      Not valued no 12

      543

      Major Seale

      Harry George

      21

      A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

      110

       

      544

      Major Seale

      Cornelius George

      13

    • Shirley Morgan
      Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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        Hi All

        I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
        (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
        assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
        not anything else.

        He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
        writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
        he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
        Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

        I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
        so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

        Many thanks in advance

        Shirley Morgan



        Shirley





        Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
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          Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, Nancy-Jo.
           
          It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

          of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
          These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi John
          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
           
          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
           
          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
           
          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
           
          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
           
          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
           
          Very best regards,
           
          John 
           
          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

          Contents:
          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
           
          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
          [See also 52394 A above]

          Contents:
          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
              
           
           

          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

           

          Best wishes

           

          Colin

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          Colin,

           

          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

           

          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

           

          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

           

          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

           

          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

           

          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

           

          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

           

          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

           

          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

           

          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

           

          Very best regards,

           

          John      

           


          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          648

          Mrs M Barnes

          Finny Caesar

          60

          Infirm

          1/-

           

          649

          ditto

          Caroline Caesar

          24

          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

          25

           

          282

          Mrs Harper

          George Caesar

          68

          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

          10

           

          620

          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

          John Caesar

          25

          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

          80

           

          622

          ditto

          Flora Caesar

          32

          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

          20

           

          357

          Mr Greentree

          Margaret Caesar

          10

          Not yet employed

          15

           

          332

          Mrs Lester

          Mary Caesar

          30

          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

          35

           

          785

          Mr Lambe

          Massie Caesar

          (married to Wm Caesar)

          26

          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

          25

           

          351

          Mr Greentree

          Michael Caesar

          15

          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

          60

           

          355

          ditto

          Sarah Caesar

          16

          House servant and nurse lent out

          30

           

          780

          Mr Lambe

          William Caesar

          44

          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

           

          Not valued No 19

          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

          80

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Augustus Casar

          18

          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

          75

           

          108

          Mrs Broadway

          Benjamin Casar

          54

          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

          10

           

          76

          Sergt Carolans Estate

          Celia Casar

          40

          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

          40

           

          78

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Samuel Casar

          39

          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

          Granted]

          90

           

           

          Colin Fox

           

          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

           

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner

           





        • John Gardiner
          Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


            From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, Nancy-Jo.
             
            It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

            of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
            These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



            From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi John
            Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
             
            Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
             
            I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
             
            You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
             
            Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
             
            I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
             
            Very best regards,
             
            John 
             
            Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
            [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

            Contents:
            Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
             
            [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



            Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
            [See also 52394 A above]

            Contents:
            Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                
             
             

            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

            There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

            There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

             

            Best wishes

             

            Colin

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
            Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            Colin,

             

            Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

             

            I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

             

            1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

             

            2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

             

            Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

             

            3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

             

            4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

             

            We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

             

            I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

             

            Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

             

            Very best regards,

             

            John      

             


            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

             

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            648

            Mrs M Barnes

            Finny Caesar

            60

            Infirm

            1/-

             

            649

            ditto

            Caroline Caesar

            24

            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

            25

             

            282

            Mrs Harper

            George Caesar

            68

            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

            10

             

            620

            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

            John Caesar

            25

            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

            80

             

            622

            ditto

            Flora Caesar

            32

            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

            20

             

            357

            Mr Greentree

            Margaret Caesar

            10

            Not yet employed

            15

             

            332

            Mrs Lester

            Mary Caesar

            30

            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

            35

             

            785

            Mr Lambe

            Massie Caesar

            (married to Wm Caesar)

            26

            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

            25

             

            351

            Mr Greentree

            Michael Caesar

            15

            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

            60

             

            355

            ditto

            Sarah Caesar

            16

            House servant and nurse lent out

            30

             

            780

            Mr Lambe

            William Caesar

            44

            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

             

            Not valued No 19

            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

            80

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Augustus Casar

            18

            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

            75

             

            108

            Mrs Broadway

            Benjamin Casar

            54

            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

            10

             

            76

            Sergt Carolans Estate

            Celia Casar

            40

            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

            40

             

            78

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Samuel Casar

            39

            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

            Granted]

            90

             

             

            Colin Fox

             

            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

             

             

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
            >
            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            >
            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            >

            Paul,

            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

            Very best regards,

            John Gardiner

             






          • Arabella George
            Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Nancy-Jo
              I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

              Regards 

              Bella George

              Sent from my iPhone

              On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

               

              Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, Nancy-Jo.
               
              It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

              of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
              These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi John
              Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
               
              Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
               
              I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
               
              You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
               
              Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
               
              I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
               
              Very best regards,
               
              John 
               
              Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
              [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

              Contents:
              Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
               
              [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



              Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
              [See also 52394 A above]

              Contents:
              Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                  
               
               

              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

               

              Best wishes

               

              Colin

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              Colin,

               

              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

               

              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

               

              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

               

              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

               

              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

               

              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

               

              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

               

              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

               

              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

               

              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

               

              Very best regards,

               

              John      

               


              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

               

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              648

              Mrs M Barnes

              Finny Caesar

              60

              Infirm

              1/-

               

              649

              ditto

              Caroline Caesar

              24

              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

              25

               

              282

              Mrs Harper

              George Caesar

              68

              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

              10

               

              620

              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

              John Caesar

              25

              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

              80

               

              622

              ditto

              Flora Caesar

              32

              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

              20

               

              357

              Mr Greentree

              Margaret Caesar

              10

              Not yet employed

              15

               

              332

              Mrs Lester

              Mary Caesar

              30

              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

              35

               

              785

              Mr Lambe

              Massie Caesar

              (married to Wm Caesar)

              26

              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

              25

               

              351

              Mr Greentree

              Michael Caesar

              15

              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

              60

               

              355

              ditto

              Sarah Caesar

              16

              House servant and nurse lent out

              30

               

              780

              Mr Lambe

              William Caesar

              44

              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

               

              Not valued No 19

              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

              80

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Augustus Casar

              18

              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

              75

               

              108

              Mrs Broadway

              Benjamin Casar

              54

              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

              10

               

              76

              Sergt Carolans Estate

              Celia Casar

              40

              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

              40

               

              78

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Samuel Casar

              39

              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

              Granted]

              90

               

               

              Colin Fox

               

              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

               

               

               

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
              >
              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              >
              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              >

              Paul,

              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

              Very best regards,

              John Gardiner

               






            • Shirley Morgan
              I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                 
                Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                Shirley


                 

                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                From: shirleymorgan967@...
                Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                 

                 
                Hi All

                I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                not anything else.

                He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                Many thanks in advance

                Shirley Morgan



                Shirley





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