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RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • Jake
    Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
    • 0 Attachment

      Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

      http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

       

      Jake

       

       

      From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
      Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

       

      Hi John (or anyone out their)

      I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

      All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

      I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

      It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

      Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

      Judith Armstrong
      Elwood Australia

      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

      >
      > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
      by
      > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
      > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
      be
      > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
      future
      > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
      > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
      > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
      Connections magazine)
      >
      > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
      society
      > to be a member of.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > No
      >
      > Name of Proprietior
      >
      > Name of Slave
      >
      > Age
      >
      > Description
      >
      > Value
      >
      > Remarks
      >
      >
      > 648
      >
      > Mrs M Barnes
      >
      > Finny Caesar
      >
      > 60
      >
      > Infirm
      >
      > 1/-
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 649
      >
      > ditto
      >
      > Caroline Caesar
      >
      > 24
      >
      > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
      >
      > 25
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 282
      >
      > Mrs Harper
      >
      > George Caesar
      >
      > 68
      >
      > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
      >
      > 10
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 620
      >
      > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
      >
      > John Caesar
      >
      > 25
      >
      > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
      >
      > 80
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 622
      >
      > ditto
      >
      > Flora Caesar
      >
      > 32
      >
      > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
      > servant unmarried
      >
      > 20
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 357
      >
      > Mr Greentree
      >
      > Margaret Caesar
      >
      > 10
      >
      > Not yet employed
      >
      > 15
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 332
      >
      > Mrs Lester
      >
      > Mary Caesar
      >
      > 30
      >
      > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
      >
      > 35
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 785
      >
      > Mr Lambe
      >
      > Massie Caesar
      >
      > (married to Wm Caesar)
      >
      > 26
      >
      > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
      >
      > 25
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 351
      >
      > Mr Greentree
      >
      > Michael Caesar
      >
      > 15
      >
      > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
      >
      > 60
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 355
      >
      > ditto
      >
      > Sarah Caesar
      >
      > 16
      >
      > House servant and nurse lent out
      >
      > 30
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 780
      >
      > Mr Lambe
      >
      > William Caesar
      >
      > 44
      >
      > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
      > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
      > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
      >
      > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
      years
      > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
      this
      > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
      > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
      > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
      > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
      > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
      to
      > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
      10
      > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
      > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
      > has been laid to his charge
      >
      >
      >
      > Not valued No 19
      >
      > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
      > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
      > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
      > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
      > inestimable blessing to St Helena
      >
      >
      > 80
      >
      > Mr G and H Alexander
      >
      > Augustus Casar
      >
      > 18
      >
      > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
      >
      > 75
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 108
      >
      > Mrs Broadway
      >
      > Benjamin Casar
      >
      > 54
      >
      > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
      >
      > 10
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 76
      >
      > Sergt Carolans Estate
      >
      > Celia Casar
      >
      > 40
      >
      > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
      £12/annum
      >
      > 40
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 78
      >
      > Mr G and H Alexander
      >
      > Samuel Casar
      >
      > 39
      >
      > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
      class
      > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
      >
      > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
      >
      > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
      > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
      > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
      to
      > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
      > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
      > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
      family.
      > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
      character
      > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
      > respectful he is not mortgaged.
      >
      > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
      >
      > Granted]
      >
      > 90
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Colin Fox
      >
      >
      >
      > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of
      > gardiner.john@...
      > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
      > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
      <pd91223@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
      Helena
      > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
      cert
      > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
      maiden
      > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
      > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
      > >
      > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
      > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
      origins.
      > >
      >
      > Paul,
      >
      > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
      on
      > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
      > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
      > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
      in
      > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
      >
      > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
      > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
      > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
      > was Louisa's father.
      >
      > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
      > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
      > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
      > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
      to
      > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
      >
      > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
      siblings,
      > too.
      >
      > Very best regards,
      >
      > John Gardiner
      >

    • Nancy-Jo Nunez
      Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


        From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        Hi John (or anyone out their)

        I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

        All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

        I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

        It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

        Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

        Judith Armstrong
        Elwood Australia

        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
        > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
        > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
        > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
        > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
        > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
        > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
        >
        > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
        > to be a member of.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > No
        >
        > Name of Proprietior
        >
        > Name of Slave
        >
        > Age
        >
        > Description
        >
        > Value
        >
        > Remarks
        >
        >
        > 648
        >
        > Mrs M Barnes
        >
        > Finny Caesar
        >
        > 60
        >
        > Infirm
        >
        > 1/-
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 649
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > Caroline Caesar
        >
        > 24
        >
        > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
        >
        > 25
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 282
        >
        > Mrs Harper
        >
        > George Caesar
        >
        > 68
        >
        > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
        >
        > 10
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 620
        >
        > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
        >
        > John Caesar
        >
        > 25
        >
        > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
        good
        >
        > 80
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 622
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > Flora Caesar
        >
        > 32
        >
        > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
        > servant unmarried
        >
        > 20
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 357
        >
        > Mr Greentree
        >
        > Margaret Caesar
        >
        > 10
        >
        > Not yet employed
        >
        > 15
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 332
        >
        > Mrs Lester
        >
        > Mary Caesar
        >
        > 30
        >
        > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
        >
        > 35
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 785
        >
        > Mr Lambe
        >
        > Massie Caesar
        >
        > (married to Wm Caesar)
        >
        > 26
        >
        > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
        >
        > 25
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 351
        >
        > Mr Greentree
        >
        > Michael Caesar
        >
        > 15
        >
        > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
        >
        > 60
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 355
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > Sarah Caesar
        >
        > 16
        >
        > House servant and nurse lent out
        >
        > 30
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 780
        >
        > Mr Lambe
        >
        > William Caesar
        >
        > 44
        >
        > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
        > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
        > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
        >
        > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
        > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
        > island is an excellent mower
        ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
        > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
        > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
        > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
        > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
        > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
        > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
        > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
        > has been laid to his charge
        >
        >
        >
        > Not valued No 19
        >
        > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
        > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
        > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
        the
        > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
        > inestimable blessing to St Helena
        >
        >
        > 80
        >
        > Mr G and H Alexander
        >
        > Augustus Casar
        >
        > 18
        >
        > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
        >
        > 75
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 108
        >
        > Mrs Broadway
        >
        > Benjamin Casar
        >
        > 54
        >
        > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
        >
        > 10
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 76
        >
        > Sergt Carolans Estate
        >
        > Celia Casar
        >
        > 40
        >
        > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
        >
        > 40
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 78
        >
        > Mr G and H Alexander
        >
        > Samuel Casar
        >
        > 39
        >
        > Good
        mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
        > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
        >
        > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
        >
        > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
        > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
        > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
        > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
        > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
        > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
        > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
        > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
        > respectful he is not mortgaged.
        >
        > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
        >
        > Granted]
        >
        > 90
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Colin Fox
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > gardiner.john@...
        > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
        > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
        > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
        > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
        > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
        > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        > >
        > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
        > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        > >
        >
        > Paul,
        >
        > Just saw your
        post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
        > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
        > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
        > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
        > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
        >
        > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
        > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
        > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
        > was Louisa's father.
        >
        > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
        > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
        > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
        > information is in a Word document and is difficult
        to post here but happy to
        > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
        >
        > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
        > too.
        >
        > Very best regards,
        >
        > John Gardiner
        >


      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
        Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi John
          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
           
          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
           
          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
           
          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
           
          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
           
          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
           
          Very best regards,
           
          John 
           
          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

          Contents:
          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
           
          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
          [See also 52394 A above]

          Contents:
          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
              
           
           

          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

           

          Best wishes

           

          Colin

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          Colin,

           

          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

           

          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

           

          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

           

          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

           

          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

           

          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

           

          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

           

          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

           

          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

           

          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

           

          Very best regards,

           

          John      

           


          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          648

          Mrs M Barnes

          Finny Caesar

          60

          Infirm

          1/-

           

          649

          ditto

          Caroline Caesar

          24

          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

          25

           

          282

          Mrs Harper

          George Caesar

          68

          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

          10

           

          620

          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

          John Caesar

          25

          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

          80

           

          622

          ditto

          Flora Caesar

          32

          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

          20

           

          357

          Mr Greentree

          Margaret Caesar

          10

          Not yet employed

          15

           

          332

          Mrs Lester

          Mary Caesar

          30

          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

          35

           

          785

          Mr Lambe

          Massie Caesar

          (married to Wm Caesar)

          26

          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

          25

           

          351

          Mr Greentree

          Michael Caesar

          15

          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

          60

           

          355

          ditto

          Sarah Caesar

          16

          House servant and nurse lent out

          30

           

          780

          Mr Lambe

          William Caesar

          44

          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

           

          Not valued No 19

          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

          80

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Augustus Casar

          18

          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

          75

           

          108

          Mrs Broadway

          Benjamin Casar

          54

          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

          10

           

          76

          Sergt Carolans Estate

          Celia Casar

          40

          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

          40

           

          78

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Samuel Casar

          39

          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

          Granted]

          90

           

           

          Colin Fox

           

          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

           

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner

           



        • Nancy-Jo Nunez
          Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


            From: foxhome <colin@...>
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

            Regards

             

            Colin

             

             

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            333

             

            Mrs Lester

            Elizabeth Scott

            12

            Useful handy girl

            20

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
            Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            

            Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

            Regards,

            Alan

             

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

             


            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

             

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            648

            Mrs M Barnes

            Finny Caesar

            60

            Infirm

            1/-

             

            649

            ditto

            Caroline Caesar

            24

            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

            25

             

            282

            Mrs Harper

            George Caesar

            68

            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

            10

             

            620

            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

            John Caesar

            25

            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

            80

             

            622

            ditto

            Flora Caesar

            32

            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

            20

             

            357

            Mr Greentree

            Margaret Caesar

            10

            Not yet employed

            15

             

            332

            Mrs Lester

            Mary Caesar

            30

            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

            35

             

            785

            Mr Lambe

            Massie Caesar

            (married to Wm Caesar)

            26

            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

            25

             

            351

            Mr Greentree

            Michael Caesar

            15

            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

            60

             

            355

            ditto

            Sarah Caesar

            16

            House servant and nurse lent out

            30

             

            780

            Mr Lambe

            William Caesar

            44

            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

             

            Not valued No 19

            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

            80

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Augustus Casar

            18

            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

            75

             

            108

            Mrs Broadway

            Benjamin Casar

            54

            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

            10

             

            76

            Sergt Carolans Estate

            Celia Casar

            40

            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

            40

             

            78

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Samuel Casar

            39

            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

            Granted]

            90

             

             

            Colin Fox

             

            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

             

             

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
            >
            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            >
            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            >

            Paul,

            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

            Very best regards,

            John Gardiner

             


          • John Gardiner
            Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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              Hi, Nancy-Jo.
               
              It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

              of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
              These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi John
              Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
               
              Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
               
              I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
               
              You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
               
              Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
               
              I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
               
              Very best regards,
               
              John 
               
              Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
              [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

              Contents:
              Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
               
              [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



              Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
              [See also 52394 A above]

              Contents:
              Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                  
               
               

              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

               

              Best wishes

               

              Colin

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              Colin,

               

              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

               

              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

               

              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

               

              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

               

              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

               

              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

               

              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

               

              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

               

              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

               

              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

               

              Very best regards,

               

              John      

               


              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

               

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              648

              Mrs M Barnes

              Finny Caesar

              60

              Infirm

              1/-

               

              649

              ditto

              Caroline Caesar

              24

              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

              25

               

              282

              Mrs Harper

              George Caesar

              68

              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

              10

               

              620

              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

              John Caesar

              25

              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

              80

               

              622

              ditto

              Flora Caesar

              32

              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

              20

               

              357

              Mr Greentree

              Margaret Caesar

              10

              Not yet employed

              15

               

              332

              Mrs Lester

              Mary Caesar

              30

              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

              35

               

              785

              Mr Lambe

              Massie Caesar

              (married to Wm Caesar)

              26

              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

              25

               

              351

              Mr Greentree

              Michael Caesar

              15

              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

              60

               

              355

              ditto

              Sarah Caesar

              16

              House servant and nurse lent out

              30

               

              780

              Mr Lambe

              William Caesar

              44

              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

               

              Not valued No 19

              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

              80

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Augustus Casar

              18

              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

              75

               

              108

              Mrs Broadway

              Benjamin Casar

              54

              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

              10

               

              76

              Sergt Carolans Estate

              Celia Casar

              40

              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

              40

               

              78

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Samuel Casar

              39

              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

              Granted]

              90

               

               

              Colin Fox

               

              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

               

               

               

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
              >
              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              >
              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              >

              Paul,

              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

              Very best regards,

              John Gardiner

               




            • foxhome
              Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
              • 0 Attachment

                Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                 

                Colin

                 

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value £

                Remarks

                65

                Capt Broadway

                Jacob George

                43

                Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                65

                 

                179

                Mr Darling

                James George

                9

                A house boy

                25

                 

                180

                Mr Darling

                Peggy George

                22

                House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                30

                 

                181

                Mr Darling

                John George

                20

                A good cook and very useful servant

                90

                 

                183

                Mr Darling

                Jacob George

                17

                A good waiting servant

                70

                 

                208

                Mr Dring

                Sarah George

                22

                Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                 

                Not valued No 5

                246

                Mr Janisch

                Louisa George

                11

                Useful little girl

                20

                 

                273

                Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                May George

                33

                A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                105

                 

                277

                Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                John George

                37

                First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                105

                 

                279

                Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                Frances George

                10

                Useful farm boy

                30

                 

                281

                Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                Nanny George

                36

                Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                20

                 

                378

                Mr Mulhall

                Lucy George

                28

                Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                30

                 

                379

                Mr Mulhall

                Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                13

                A very useful house girl

                30

                 

                428

                Major D K Pritchard

                Charles George

                34

                A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                105

                 

                429

                Mr H T Seale

                Jane George

                43

                Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                30

                 

                433

                Dr Lorimer

                Martha George

                16

                Useful house servant good character

                30

                 

                483

                Miss Mason

                Susan George

                24

                Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                20

                 

                498

                Mr B Solomon

                Benj George

                10

                Useful houseboy

                35

                 

                501

                Mr S Solomon

                Dolly George

                17

                Needlewoman and nurse

                25

                 

                519

                Mr William Seale jun.

                Nancy George

                26

                Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                25

                 

                525

                Major Seale

                Sally George

                22

                Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                40

                 

                534

                Major Seale

                Ruth George

                18

                A good house servant

                30

                 

                535

                Major Seale

                Martha George

                13

                A good house servant

                25

                 

                541

                Major Seale

                James George

                32

                Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                 

                Not valued No 11

                542

                Major Seale

                Benj George

                18

                Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                 

                Not valued no 12

                543

                Major Seale

                Harry George

                21

                A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                110

                 

                544

                Major Seale

                Cornelius George

                13

              • Shirley Morgan
                Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                  Hi All

                  I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                  (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                  assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                  not anything else.

                  He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                  writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                  he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                  Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                  I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                  so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                  Many thanks in advance

                  Shirley Morgan



                  Shirley





                  Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                  Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                     
                    It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                    of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                    These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                    From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi John
                    Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                     
                    Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                     
                    I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                     
                    You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                     
                    Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                     
                    I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                     
                    Very best regards,
                     
                    John 
                     
                    Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                    [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                    Contents:
                    Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                     
                    [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                    Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                    [See also 52394 A above]

                    Contents:
                    Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                        
                     
                     

                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                    There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                    There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                     

                    Best wishes

                     

                    Colin

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                    Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    Colin,

                     

                    Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                     

                    I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                     

                    1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                     

                    2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                     

                    Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                     

                    3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                     

                    4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                     

                    We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                     

                    I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                     

                    Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                     

                    Very best regards,

                     

                    John      

                     


                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                     

                    No

                    Name of Proprietior

                    Name of Slave

                    Age

                    Description

                    Value

                    Remarks

                    648

                    Mrs M Barnes

                    Finny Caesar

                    60

                    Infirm

                    1/-

                     

                    649

                    ditto

                    Caroline Caesar

                    24

                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                    25

                     

                    282

                    Mrs Harper

                    George Caesar

                    68

                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                    10

                     

                    620

                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                    John Caesar

                    25

                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                    80

                     

                    622

                    ditto

                    Flora Caesar

                    32

                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                    20

                     

                    357

                    Mr Greentree

                    Margaret Caesar

                    10

                    Not yet employed

                    15

                     

                    332

                    Mrs Lester

                    Mary Caesar

                    30

                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                    35

                     

                    785

                    Mr Lambe

                    Massie Caesar

                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                    26

                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                    25

                     

                    351

                    Mr Greentree

                    Michael Caesar

                    15

                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                    60

                     

                    355

                    ditto

                    Sarah Caesar

                    16

                    House servant and nurse lent out

                    30

                     

                    780

                    Mr Lambe

                    William Caesar

                    44

                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                     

                    Not valued No 19

                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                    80

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Augustus Casar

                    18

                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                    75

                     

                    108

                    Mrs Broadway

                    Benjamin Casar

                    54

                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                    10

                     

                    76

                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                    Celia Casar

                    40

                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                    40

                     

                    78

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Samuel Casar

                    39

                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                    Granted]

                    90

                     

                     

                    Colin Fox

                     

                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                     

                     

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    >
                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    >

                    Paul,

                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                    Very best regards,

                    John Gardiner

                     





                  • John Gardiner
                    Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                      From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                       
                      It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                      of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                      These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                      From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi John
                      Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                       
                      Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                       
                      I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                       
                      You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                       
                      Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                       
                      I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                       
                      Very best regards,
                       
                      John 
                       
                      Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                      [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                      Contents:
                      Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                       
                      [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                      Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                      [See also 52394 A above]

                      Contents:
                      Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                          
                       
                       

                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                      There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                      There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                       

                      Best wishes

                       

                      Colin

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                      Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      Colin,

                       

                      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                       

                      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                       

                      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                       

                      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                       

                      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                       

                      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                       

                      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                       

                      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                       

                      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                       

                      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                       

                      Very best regards,

                       

                      John      

                       


                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                       

                      No

                      Name of Proprietior

                      Name of Slave

                      Age

                      Description

                      Value

                      Remarks

                      648

                      Mrs M Barnes

                      Finny Caesar

                      60

                      Infirm

                      1/-

                       

                      649

                      ditto

                      Caroline Caesar

                      24

                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                      25

                       

                      282

                      Mrs Harper

                      George Caesar

                      68

                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                      10

                       

                      620

                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                      John Caesar

                      25

                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                      80

                       

                      622

                      ditto

                      Flora Caesar

                      32

                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                      20

                       

                      357

                      Mr Greentree

                      Margaret Caesar

                      10

                      Not yet employed

                      15

                       

                      332

                      Mrs Lester

                      Mary Caesar

                      30

                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                      35

                       

                      785

                      Mr Lambe

                      Massie Caesar

                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                      26

                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                      25

                       

                      351

                      Mr Greentree

                      Michael Caesar

                      15

                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                      60

                       

                      355

                      ditto

                      Sarah Caesar

                      16

                      House servant and nurse lent out

                      30

                       

                      780

                      Mr Lambe

                      William Caesar

                      44

                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                       

                      Not valued No 19

                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                      80

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Augustus Casar

                      18

                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                      75

                       

                      108

                      Mrs Broadway

                      Benjamin Casar

                      54

                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                      10

                       

                      76

                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                      Celia Casar

                      40

                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                      40

                       

                      78

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Samuel Casar

                      39

                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                      Granted]

                      90

                       

                       

                      Colin Fox

                       

                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                       

                       

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                      >
                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                      >

                      Paul,

                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                      Very best regards,

                      John Gardiner

                       






                    • Arabella George
                      Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Nancy-Jo
                        I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                        Regards 

                        Bella George

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                         

                        Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                         
                        It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                        of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                        These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi John
                        Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                         
                        Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                         
                        I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                         
                        You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                         
                        Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                         
                        I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                         
                        Very best regards,
                         
                        John 
                         
                        Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                        [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                        Contents:
                        Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                         
                        [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                        Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                        [See also 52394 A above]

                        Contents:
                        Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                            
                         
                         

                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                        There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                        There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                         

                        Best wishes

                         

                        Colin

                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                        Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                         

                        Colin,

                         

                        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                         

                        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                         

                        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                         

                        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                         

                        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                         

                        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                         

                        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                         

                        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                         

                        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                         

                        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                         

                        Very best regards,

                         

                        John      

                         


                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                         

                        No

                        Name of Proprietior

                        Name of Slave

                        Age

                        Description

                        Value

                        Remarks

                        648

                        Mrs M Barnes

                        Finny Caesar

                        60

                        Infirm

                        1/-

                         

                        649

                        ditto

                        Caroline Caesar

                        24

                        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                        25

                         

                        282

                        Mrs Harper

                        George Caesar

                        68

                        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                        10

                         

                        620

                        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                        John Caesar

                        25

                        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                        80

                         

                        622

                        ditto

                        Flora Caesar

                        32

                        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                        20

                         

                        357

                        Mr Greentree

                        Margaret Caesar

                        10

                        Not yet employed

                        15

                         

                        332

                        Mrs Lester

                        Mary Caesar

                        30

                        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                        35

                         

                        785

                        Mr Lambe

                        Massie Caesar

                        (married to Wm Caesar)

                        26

                        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                        25

                         

                        351

                        Mr Greentree

                        Michael Caesar

                        15

                        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                        60

                         

                        355

                        ditto

                        Sarah Caesar

                        16

                        House servant and nurse lent out

                        30

                         

                        780

                        Mr Lambe

                        William Caesar

                        44

                        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                         

                        Not valued No 19

                        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                        80

                        Mr G and H Alexander

                        Augustus Casar

                        18

                        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                        75

                         

                        108

                        Mrs Broadway

                        Benjamin Casar

                        54

                        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                        10

                         

                        76

                        Sergt Carolans Estate

                        Celia Casar

                        40

                        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                        40

                         

                        78

                        Mr G and H Alexander

                        Samuel Casar

                        39

                        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                        Granted]

                        90

                         

                         

                        Colin Fox

                         

                        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                         

                         

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                         

                        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                        >
                        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                        >

                        Paul,

                        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                        Very best regards,

                        John Gardiner

                         






                      • Shirley Morgan
                        I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                          (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                           
                          Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                          Shirley


                           

                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          From: shirleymorgan967@...
                          Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                           

                           
                          Hi All

                          I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                          (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                          assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                          not anything else.

                          He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                          writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                          he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                          Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                          I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                          so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                          Many thanks in advance

                          Shirley Morgan



                          Shirley





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