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Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • John Gardiner
    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes -  We ll give you your freedom, but only after you ve taken out an HP agreement on yourself!  
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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      Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
       
      Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
       
      I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
       
      You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
       
      Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
       
      I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
       
      Very best regards,
       
      John 
       
      Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
      [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

      Contents:
      Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
       
      [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/54693  Feb-Jun 1833



      Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
      [See also 52394 A above]

      Contents:
      Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
          
       
       

      From: foxhome <colin@...>
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

      There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

      There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

       

      Best wishes

       

      Colin

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
      Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

       

      Colin,

       

      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

       

      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

       

      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

       

      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

       

      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

       

      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

       

      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

       

      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

       

      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

       

      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

       

      Very best regards,

       

      John      

       


      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

       

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value

      Remarks

      648

      Mrs M Barnes

      Finny Caesar

      60

      Infirm

      1/-

       

      649

      ditto

      Caroline Caesar

      24

      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

      25

       

      282

      Mrs Harper

      George Caesar

      68

      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

      10

       

      620

      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

      John Caesar

      25

      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

      80

       

      622

      ditto

      Flora Caesar

      32

      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

      20

       

      357

      Mr Greentree

      Margaret Caesar

      10

      Not yet employed

      15

       

      332

      Mrs Lester

      Mary Caesar

      30

      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

      35

       

      785

      Mr Lambe

      Massie Caesar

      (married to Wm Caesar)

      26

      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

      25

       

      351

      Mr Greentree

      Michael Caesar

      15

      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

      60

       

      355

      ditto

      Sarah Caesar

      16

      House servant and nurse lent out

      30

       

      780

      Mr Lambe

      William Caesar

      44

      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

       

      Not valued No 19

      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

      80

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Augustus Casar

      18

      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

      75

       

      108

      Mrs Broadway

      Benjamin Casar

      54

      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

      10

       

      76

      Sergt Carolans Estate

      Celia Casar

      40

      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

      40

       

      78

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Samuel Casar

      39

      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

      Granted]

      90

       

       

      Colin Fox

       

      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

       

       

       

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

       

      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
      >
      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
      >
      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
      >

      Paul,

      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

      Very best regards,

      John Gardiner

       


    • judith.armstrong77
      Hi John (or anyone out their) I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 15, 2010
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        Hi John (or anyone out their)

        I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

        All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

        I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

        It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

        Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

        Judith Armstrong
        Elwood Australia


        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
        > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
        > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
        > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
        > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
        > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
        > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
        >
        > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
        > to be a member of.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > No
        >
        > Name of Proprietior
        >
        > Name of Slave
        >
        > Age
        >
        > Description
        >
        > Value
        >
        > Remarks
        >
        >
        > 648
        >
        > Mrs M Barnes
        >
        > Finny Caesar
        >
        > 60
        >
        > Infirm
        >
        > 1/-
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 649
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > Caroline Caesar
        >
        > 24
        >
        > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
        >
        > 25
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 282
        >
        > Mrs Harper
        >
        > George Caesar
        >
        > 68
        >
        > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
        >
        > 10
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 620
        >
        > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
        >
        > John Caesar
        >
        > 25
        >
        > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
        >
        > 80
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 622
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > Flora Caesar
        >
        > 32
        >
        > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
        > servant unmarried
        >
        > 20
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 357
        >
        > Mr Greentree
        >
        > Margaret Caesar
        >
        > 10
        >
        > Not yet employed
        >
        > 15
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 332
        >
        > Mrs Lester
        >
        > Mary Caesar
        >
        > 30
        >
        > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
        >
        > 35
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 785
        >
        > Mr Lambe
        >
        > Massie Caesar
        >
        > (married to Wm Caesar)
        >
        > 26
        >
        > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
        >
        > 25
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 351
        >
        > Mr Greentree
        >
        > Michael Caesar
        >
        > 15
        >
        > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
        >
        > 60
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 355
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > Sarah Caesar
        >
        > 16
        >
        > House servant and nurse lent out
        >
        > 30
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 780
        >
        > Mr Lambe
        >
        > William Caesar
        >
        > 44
        >
        > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
        > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
        > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
        >
        > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
        > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
        > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
        > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
        > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
        > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
        > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
        > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
        > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
        > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
        > has been laid to his charge
        >
        >
        >
        > Not valued No 19
        >
        > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
        > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
        > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
        > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
        > inestimable blessing to St Helena
        >
        >
        > 80
        >
        > Mr G and H Alexander
        >
        > Augustus Casar
        >
        > 18
        >
        > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
        >
        > 75
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 108
        >
        > Mrs Broadway
        >
        > Benjamin Casar
        >
        > 54
        >
        > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
        >
        > 10
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 76
        >
        > Sergt Carolans Estate
        >
        > Celia Casar
        >
        > 40
        >
        > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
        >
        > 40
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 78
        >
        > Mr G and H Alexander
        >
        > Samuel Casar
        >
        > 39
        >
        > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
        > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
        >
        > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
        >
        > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
        > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
        > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
        > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
        > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
        > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
        > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
        > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
        > respectful he is not mortgaged.
        >
        > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
        >
        > Granted]
        >
        > 90
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Colin Fox
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > gardiner.john@...
        > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
        > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
        > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
        > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
        > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
        > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        > >
        > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
        > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        > >
        >
        > Paul,
        >
        > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
        > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
        > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
        > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
        > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
        >
        > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
        > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
        > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
        > was Louisa's father.
        >
        > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
        > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
        > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
        > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
        > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
        >
        > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
        > too.
        >
        > Very best regards,
        >
        > John Gardiner
        >
      • John Gardiner
        Hello, Judith. I m sorry, I ve only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you. Keep perservering.  I m
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello, Judith.
           
          I'm sorry, I've only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you.
           
          Keep perservering.  I'm sure more information will turn up.
           
          Very best regards,
           
          John


          From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 6:07:46
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi John (or anyone out their)

          I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

          All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

          I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

          It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

          Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

          Judith Armstrong
          Elwood Australia

          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

          >
          > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
          > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
          > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
          > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
          > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
          > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
          > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
          >
          > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
          > to be a member
          of.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > No
          >
          > Name of Proprietior
          >
          > Name of Slave
          >
          > Age
          >
          > Description
          >
          > Value
          >
          > Remarks
          >
          >
          > 648
          >
          > Mrs M Barnes
          >
          > Finny Caesar
          >
          > 60
          >
          > Infirm
          >
          > 1/-
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 649
          >
          > ditto
          >
          > Caroline Caesar
          >
          > 24
          >
          > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
          >
          > 25
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 282
          >
          > Mrs Harper
          >
          > George Caesar
          >
          > 68
          >
          > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
          >
          > 10
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 620
          >
          > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
          >
          > John Caesar
          >
          > 25
          >
          >
          Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
          >
          > 80
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 622
          >
          > ditto
          >
          > Flora Caesar
          >
          > 32
          >
          > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
          > servant unmarried
          >
          > 20
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 357
          >
          > Mr Greentree
          >
          > Margaret Caesar
          >
          > 10
          >
          > Not yet employed
          >
          > 15
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 332
          >
          > Mrs Lester
          >
          > Mary Caesar
          >
          > 30
          >
          > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
          >
          > 35
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 785
          >
          > Mr Lambe
          >
          > Massie Caesar
          >
          > (married to Wm Caesar)
          >
          > 26
          >
          > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children
          youngest 3 years
          >
          > 25
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 351
          >
          > Mr Greentree
          >
          > Michael Caesar
          >
          > 15
          >
          > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
          >
          > 60
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 355
          >
          > ditto
          >
          > Sarah Caesar
          >
          > 16
          >
          > House servant and nurse lent out
          >
          > 30
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 780
          >
          > Mr Lambe
          >
          > William Caesar
          >
          > 44
          >
          > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
          > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
          > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
          >
          > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
          > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any
          on this
          > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
          > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
          > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
          > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
          > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
          > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
          > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
          > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
          > has been laid to his charge
          >
          >
          >
          > Not valued No 19
          >
          > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
          > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
          > one half of the sum at which
          he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
          > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
          > inestimable blessing to St Helena
          >
          >
          > 80
          >
          > Mr G and H Alexander
          >
          > Augustus Casar
          >
          > 18
          >
          > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
          >
          > 75
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 108
          >
          > Mrs Broadway
          >
          > Benjamin Casar
          >
          > 54
          >
          > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
          >
          > 10
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 76
          >
          > Sergt Carolans Estate
          >
          > Celia Casar
          >
          > 40
          >
          > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
          >
          > 40
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 78
          >
          > Mr G and H Alexander
          >
          > Samuel
          Casar
          >
          > 39
          >
          > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
          > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
          >
          > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
          >
          > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
          > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
          > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
          > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
          > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
          > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
          > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
          > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
          > respectful he is not mortgaged.
          >
          > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
          >
          > Granted]
          >
          > 90
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Colin Fox
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > gardiner.john@...
          > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          > To:
          ymailto="mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com">st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
          > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
          > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
          > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
          > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          > >
          > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's
          marriage to Timms, birth
          > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          > >
          >
          > Paul,
          >
          > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
          > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
          > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
          > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
          > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
          >
          > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
          > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
          > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
          > was Louisa's father.
          >
          > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
          > island up to 1865 when Samuel
          Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
          > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
          > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
          > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
          >
          > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
          > too.
          >
          > Very best regards,
          >
          > John Gardiner
          >


        • Jake
          Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment

            Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

            http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

             

            Jake

             

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
            Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            Hi John (or anyone out their)

            I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

            All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

            I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

            It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

            Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

            Judith Armstrong
            Elwood Australia

            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
            by
            > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
            > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
            be
            > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
            future
            > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
            > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
            > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
            Connections magazine)
            >
            > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
            society
            > to be a member of.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No
            >
            > Name of Proprietior
            >
            > Name of Slave
            >
            > Age
            >
            > Description
            >
            > Value
            >
            > Remarks
            >
            >
            > 648
            >
            > Mrs M Barnes
            >
            > Finny Caesar
            >
            > 60
            >
            > Infirm
            >
            > 1/-
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 649
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > Caroline Caesar
            >
            > 24
            >
            > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
            >
            > 25
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 282
            >
            > Mrs Harper
            >
            > George Caesar
            >
            > 68
            >
            > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
            >
            > 10
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 620
            >
            > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
            >
            > John Caesar
            >
            > 25
            >
            > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
            >
            > 80
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 622
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > Flora Caesar
            >
            > 32
            >
            > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
            > servant unmarried
            >
            > 20
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 357
            >
            > Mr Greentree
            >
            > Margaret Caesar
            >
            > 10
            >
            > Not yet employed
            >
            > 15
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 332
            >
            > Mrs Lester
            >
            > Mary Caesar
            >
            > 30
            >
            > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
            >
            > 35
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 785
            >
            > Mr Lambe
            >
            > Massie Caesar
            >
            > (married to Wm Caesar)
            >
            > 26
            >
            > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
            >
            > 25
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 351
            >
            > Mr Greentree
            >
            > Michael Caesar
            >
            > 15
            >
            > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
            >
            > 60
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 355
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > Sarah Caesar
            >
            > 16
            >
            > House servant and nurse lent out
            >
            > 30
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 780
            >
            > Mr Lambe
            >
            > William Caesar
            >
            > 44
            >
            > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
            > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
            > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
            >
            > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
            years
            > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
            this
            > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
            > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
            > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
            > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
            > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
            to
            > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
            10
            > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
            > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
            > has been laid to his charge
            >
            >
            >
            > Not valued No 19
            >
            > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
            > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
            > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
            > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
            > inestimable blessing to St Helena
            >
            >
            > 80
            >
            > Mr G and H Alexander
            >
            > Augustus Casar
            >
            > 18
            >
            > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
            >
            > 75
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 108
            >
            > Mrs Broadway
            >
            > Benjamin Casar
            >
            > 54
            >
            > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
            >
            > 10
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 76
            >
            > Sergt Carolans Estate
            >
            > Celia Casar
            >
            > 40
            >
            > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
            £12/annum
            >
            > 40
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 78
            >
            > Mr G and H Alexander
            >
            > Samuel Casar
            >
            > 39
            >
            > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
            class
            > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
            >
            > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
            >
            > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
            > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
            > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
            to
            > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
            > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
            > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
            family.
            > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
            character
            > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
            > respectful he is not mortgaged.
            >
            > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
            >
            > Granted]
            >
            > 90
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Colin Fox
            >
            >
            >
            > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of
            > gardiner.john@...
            > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
            <pd91223@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
            Helena
            > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
            cert
            > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
            maiden
            > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
            > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            > >
            > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
            > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
            origins.
            > >
            >
            > Paul,
            >
            > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
            on
            > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
            > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
            > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
            in
            > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
            >
            > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
            > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
            > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
            > was Louisa's father.
            >
            > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
            > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
            > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
            > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
            to
            > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
            >
            > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
            siblings,
            > too.
            >
            > Very best regards,
            >
            > John Gardiner
            >

          • Nancy-Jo Nunez
            Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


              From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi John (or anyone out their)

              I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

              All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

              I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

              It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

              Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

              Judith Armstrong
              Elwood Australia

              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

              >
              > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
              > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
              > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
              > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
              > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
              > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
              > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
              >
              > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
              > to be a member of.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > No
              >
              > Name of Proprietior
              >
              > Name of Slave
              >
              > Age
              >
              > Description
              >
              > Value
              >
              > Remarks
              >
              >
              > 648
              >
              > Mrs M Barnes
              >
              > Finny Caesar
              >
              > 60
              >
              > Infirm
              >
              > 1/-
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 649
              >
              > ditto
              >
              > Caroline Caesar
              >
              > 24
              >
              > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
              >
              > 25
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 282
              >
              > Mrs Harper
              >
              > George Caesar
              >
              > 68
              >
              > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
              >
              > 10
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 620
              >
              > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
              >
              > John Caesar
              >
              > 25
              >
              > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
              good
              >
              > 80
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 622
              >
              > ditto
              >
              > Flora Caesar
              >
              > 32
              >
              > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
              > servant unmarried
              >
              > 20
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 357
              >
              > Mr Greentree
              >
              > Margaret Caesar
              >
              > 10
              >
              > Not yet employed
              >
              > 15
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 332
              >
              > Mrs Lester
              >
              > Mary Caesar
              >
              > 30
              >
              > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
              >
              > 35
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 785
              >
              > Mr Lambe
              >
              > Massie Caesar
              >
              > (married to Wm Caesar)
              >
              > 26
              >
              > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
              >
              > 25
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 351
              >
              > Mr Greentree
              >
              > Michael Caesar
              >
              > 15
              >
              > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
              >
              > 60
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 355
              >
              > ditto
              >
              > Sarah Caesar
              >
              > 16
              >
              > House servant and nurse lent out
              >
              > 30
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 780
              >
              > Mr Lambe
              >
              > William Caesar
              >
              > 44
              >
              > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
              > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
              > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
              >
              > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
              > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
              > island is an excellent mower
              ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
              > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
              > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
              > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
              > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
              > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
              > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
              > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
              > has been laid to his charge
              >
              >
              >
              > Not valued No 19
              >
              > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
              > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
              > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
              the
              > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
              > inestimable blessing to St Helena
              >
              >
              > 80
              >
              > Mr G and H Alexander
              >
              > Augustus Casar
              >
              > 18
              >
              > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
              >
              > 75
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 108
              >
              > Mrs Broadway
              >
              > Benjamin Casar
              >
              > 54
              >
              > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
              >
              > 10
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 76
              >
              > Sergt Carolans Estate
              >
              > Celia Casar
              >
              > 40
              >
              > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
              >
              > 40
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 78
              >
              > Mr G and H Alexander
              >
              > Samuel Casar
              >
              > 39
              >
              > Good
              mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
              > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
              >
              > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
              >
              > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
              > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
              > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
              > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
              > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
              > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
              > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
              > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
              > respectful he is not mortgaged.
              >
              > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
              >
              > Granted]
              >
              > 90
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Colin Fox
              >
              >
              >
              > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > gardiner.john@...
              > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
              > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
              > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
              > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
              > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              > >
              > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
              > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              > >
              >
              > Paul,
              >
              > Just saw your
              post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
              > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
              > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
              > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
              > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
              >
              > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
              > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
              > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
              > was Louisa's father.
              >
              > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
              > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
              > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
              > information is in a Word document and is difficult
              to post here but happy to
              > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
              >
              > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
              > too.
              >
              > Very best regards,
              >
              > John Gardiner
              >


            • Nancy-Jo Nunez
              Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi John
                Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                 
                Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                 
                I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                 
                You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                 
                Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                 
                I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                 
                Very best regards,
                 
                John 
                 
                Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                Contents:
                Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                 
                [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                [See also 52394 A above]

                Contents:
                Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                    
                 
                 

                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                 

                Best wishes

                 

                Colin

                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                Colin,

                 

                Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                 

                I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                 

                1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                 

                2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                 

                Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                 

                3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                 

                4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                 

                We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                 

                I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                 

                Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                 

                Very best regards,

                 

                John      

                 


                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                 

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                648

                Mrs M Barnes

                Finny Caesar

                60

                Infirm

                1/-

                 

                649

                ditto

                Caroline Caesar

                24

                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                25

                 

                282

                Mrs Harper

                George Caesar

                68

                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                10

                 

                620

                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                John Caesar

                25

                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                80

                 

                622

                ditto

                Flora Caesar

                32

                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                20

                 

                357

                Mr Greentree

                Margaret Caesar

                10

                Not yet employed

                15

                 

                332

                Mrs Lester

                Mary Caesar

                30

                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                35

                 

                785

                Mr Lambe

                Massie Caesar

                (married to Wm Caesar)

                26

                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                25

                 

                351

                Mr Greentree

                Michael Caesar

                15

                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                60

                 

                355

                ditto

                Sarah Caesar

                16

                House servant and nurse lent out

                30

                 

                780

                Mr Lambe

                William Caesar

                44

                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                 

                Not valued No 19

                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                80

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Augustus Casar

                18

                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                75

                 

                108

                Mrs Broadway

                Benjamin Casar

                54

                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                10

                 

                76

                Sergt Carolans Estate

                Celia Casar

                40

                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                40

                 

                78

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Samuel Casar

                39

                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                Granted]

                90

                 

                 

                Colin Fox

                 

                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                 

                 

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                >
                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                >
                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                >

                Paul,

                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                Very best regards,

                John Gardiner

                 



              • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


                  From: foxhome <colin@...>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                  Regards

                   

                  Colin

                   

                   

                  No

                  Name of Proprietior

                  Name of Slave

                  Age

                  Description

                  Value

                  Remarks

                  333

                   

                  Mrs Lester

                  Elizabeth Scott

                  12

                  Useful handy girl

                  20

                   

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                  Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                   

                  

                  Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                  Regards,

                  Alan

                   

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                   

                  Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                   


                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                   

                  No

                  Name of Proprietior

                  Name of Slave

                  Age

                  Description

                  Value

                  Remarks

                  648

                  Mrs M Barnes

                  Finny Caesar

                  60

                  Infirm

                  1/-

                   

                  649

                  ditto

                  Caroline Caesar

                  24

                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                  25

                   

                  282

                  Mrs Harper

                  George Caesar

                  68

                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                  10

                   

                  620

                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                  John Caesar

                  25

                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                  80

                   

                  622

                  ditto

                  Flora Caesar

                  32

                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                  20

                   

                  357

                  Mr Greentree

                  Margaret Caesar

                  10

                  Not yet employed

                  15

                   

                  332

                  Mrs Lester

                  Mary Caesar

                  30

                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                  35

                   

                  785

                  Mr Lambe

                  Massie Caesar

                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                  26

                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                  25

                   

                  351

                  Mr Greentree

                  Michael Caesar

                  15

                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                  60

                   

                  355

                  ditto

                  Sarah Caesar

                  16

                  House servant and nurse lent out

                  30

                   

                  780

                  Mr Lambe

                  William Caesar

                  44

                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                   

                  Not valued No 19

                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                  80

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Augustus Casar

                  18

                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                  75

                   

                  108

                  Mrs Broadway

                  Benjamin Casar

                  54

                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                  10

                   

                  76

                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                  Celia Casar

                  40

                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                  40

                   

                  78

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Samuel Casar

                  39

                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                  Granted]

                  90

                   

                   

                  Colin Fox

                   

                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                   

                   

                   

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                  >
                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                  >

                  Paul,

                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                  Very best regards,

                  John Gardiner

                   


                • John Gardiner
                  Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                     
                    It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                    of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                    These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                    From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi John
                    Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                     
                    Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                     
                    I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                     
                    You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                     
                    Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                     
                    I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                     
                    Very best regards,
                     
                    John 
                     
                    Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                    [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                    Contents:
                    Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                     
                    [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                    Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                    [See also 52394 A above]

                    Contents:
                    Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                        
                     
                     

                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                    There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                    There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                     

                    Best wishes

                     

                    Colin

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                    Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    Colin,

                     

                    Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                     

                    I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                     

                    1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                     

                    2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                     

                    Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                     

                    3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                     

                    4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                     

                    We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                     

                    I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                     

                    Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                     

                    Very best regards,

                     

                    John      

                     


                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                     

                    No

                    Name of Proprietior

                    Name of Slave

                    Age

                    Description

                    Value

                    Remarks

                    648

                    Mrs M Barnes

                    Finny Caesar

                    60

                    Infirm

                    1/-

                     

                    649

                    ditto

                    Caroline Caesar

                    24

                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                    25

                     

                    282

                    Mrs Harper

                    George Caesar

                    68

                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                    10

                     

                    620

                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                    John Caesar

                    25

                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                    80

                     

                    622

                    ditto

                    Flora Caesar

                    32

                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                    20

                     

                    357

                    Mr Greentree

                    Margaret Caesar

                    10

                    Not yet employed

                    15

                     

                    332

                    Mrs Lester

                    Mary Caesar

                    30

                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                    35

                     

                    785

                    Mr Lambe

                    Massie Caesar

                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                    26

                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                    25

                     

                    351

                    Mr Greentree

                    Michael Caesar

                    15

                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                    60

                     

                    355

                    ditto

                    Sarah Caesar

                    16

                    House servant and nurse lent out

                    30

                     

                    780

                    Mr Lambe

                    William Caesar

                    44

                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                     

                    Not valued No 19

                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                    80

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Augustus Casar

                    18

                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                    75

                     

                    108

                    Mrs Broadway

                    Benjamin Casar

                    54

                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                    10

                     

                    76

                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                    Celia Casar

                    40

                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                    40

                     

                    78

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Samuel Casar

                    39

                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                    Granted]

                    90

                     

                     

                    Colin Fox

                     

                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                     

                     

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    >
                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    >

                    Paul,

                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                    Very best regards,

                    John Gardiner

                     




                  • foxhome
                    Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                       

                      Colin

                       

                      No

                      Name of Proprietior

                      Name of Slave

                      Age

                      Description

                      Value £

                      Remarks

                      65

                      Capt Broadway

                      Jacob George

                      43

                      Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                      65

                       

                      179

                      Mr Darling

                      James George

                      9

                      A house boy

                      25

                       

                      180

                      Mr Darling

                      Peggy George

                      22

                      House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                      30

                       

                      181

                      Mr Darling

                      John George

                      20

                      A good cook and very useful servant

                      90

                       

                      183

                      Mr Darling

                      Jacob George

                      17

                      A good waiting servant

                      70

                       

                      208

                      Mr Dring

                      Sarah George

                      22

                      Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                       

                      Not valued No 5

                      246

                      Mr Janisch

                      Louisa George

                      11

                      Useful little girl

                      20

                       

                      273

                      Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                      May George

                      33

                      A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                      105

                       

                      277

                      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                      John George

                      37

                      First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                      105

                       

                      279

                      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                      Frances George

                      10

                      Useful farm boy

                      30

                       

                      281

                      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                      Nanny George

                      36

                      Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                      20

                       

                      378

                      Mr Mulhall

                      Lucy George

                      28

                      Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                      30

                       

                      379

                      Mr Mulhall

                      Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                      13

                      A very useful house girl

                      30

                       

                      428

                      Major D K Pritchard

                      Charles George

                      34

                      A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                      105

                       

                      429

                      Mr H T Seale

                      Jane George

                      43

                      Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                      30

                       

                      433

                      Dr Lorimer

                      Martha George

                      16

                      Useful house servant good character

                      30

                       

                      483

                      Miss Mason

                      Susan George

                      24

                      Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                      20

                       

                      498

                      Mr B Solomon

                      Benj George

                      10

                      Useful houseboy

                      35

                       

                      501

                      Mr S Solomon

                      Dolly George

                      17

                      Needlewoman and nurse

                      25

                       

                      519

                      Mr William Seale jun.

                      Nancy George

                      26

                      Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                      25

                       

                      525

                      Major Seale

                      Sally George

                      22

                      Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                      40

                       

                      534

                      Major Seale

                      Ruth George

                      18

                      A good house servant

                      30

                       

                      535

                      Major Seale

                      Martha George

                      13

                      A good house servant

                      25

                       

                      541

                      Major Seale

                      James George

                      32

                      Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                       

                      Not valued No 11

                      542

                      Major Seale

                      Benj George

                      18

                      Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                       

                      Not valued no 12

                      543

                      Major Seale

                      Harry George

                      21

                      A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                      110

                       

                      544

                      Major Seale

                      Cornelius George

                      13

                    • Shirley Morgan
                      Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                        Hi All

                        I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                        (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                        assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                        not anything else.

                        He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                        writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                        he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                        Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                        I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                        so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                        Many thanks in advance

                        Shirley Morgan



                        Shirley





                        Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                           
                          It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                          of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                          These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi John
                          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                           
                          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                           
                          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                           
                          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                           
                          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                           
                          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                           
                          Very best regards,
                           
                          John 
                           
                          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                          Contents:
                          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                           
                          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                          [See also 52394 A above]

                          Contents:
                          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                              
                           
                           

                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                           

                          Best wishes

                           

                          Colin

                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                           

                          Colin,

                           

                          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                           

                          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                           

                          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                           

                          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                           

                          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                           

                          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                           

                          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                           

                          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                           

                          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                           

                          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                           

                          Very best regards,

                           

                          John      

                           


                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                           

                          No

                          Name of Proprietior

                          Name of Slave

                          Age

                          Description

                          Value

                          Remarks

                          648

                          Mrs M Barnes

                          Finny Caesar

                          60

                          Infirm

                          1/-

                           

                          649

                          ditto

                          Caroline Caesar

                          24

                          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                          25

                           

                          282

                          Mrs Harper

                          George Caesar

                          68

                          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                          10

                           

                          620

                          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                          John Caesar

                          25

                          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                          80

                           

                          622

                          ditto

                          Flora Caesar

                          32

                          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                          20

                           

                          357

                          Mr Greentree

                          Margaret Caesar

                          10

                          Not yet employed

                          15

                           

                          332

                          Mrs Lester

                          Mary Caesar

                          30

                          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                          35

                           

                          785

                          Mr Lambe

                          Massie Caesar

                          (married to Wm Caesar)

                          26

                          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                          25

                           

                          351

                          Mr Greentree

                          Michael Caesar

                          15

                          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                          60

                           

                          355

                          ditto

                          Sarah Caesar

                          16

                          House servant and nurse lent out

                          30

                           

                          780

                          Mr Lambe

                          William Caesar

                          44

                          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                           

                          Not valued No 19

                          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                          80

                          Mr G and H Alexander

                          Augustus Casar

                          18

                          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                          75

                           

                          108

                          Mrs Broadway

                          Benjamin Casar

                          54

                          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                          10

                           

                          76

                          Sergt Carolans Estate

                          Celia Casar

                          40

                          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                          40

                           

                          78

                          Mr G and H Alexander

                          Samuel Casar

                          39

                          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                          Granted]

                          90

                           

                           

                          Colin Fox

                           

                          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                           

                           

                           

                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                           

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                          >
                          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                          >

                          Paul,

                          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                          Very best regards,

                          John Gardiner

                           





                        • John Gardiner
                          Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                            From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                             
                            It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                            of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                            These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                            From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi John
                            Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                             
                            Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                             
                            I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                             
                            You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                             
                            Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                             
                            I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                             
                            Very best regards,
                             
                            John 
                             
                            Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                            [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                            Contents:
                            Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                             
                            [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                            Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                            [See also 52394 A above]

                            Contents:
                            Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                
                             
                             

                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                            There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                            There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                             

                            Best wishes

                             

                            Colin

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                            Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            Colin,

                             

                            Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                             

                            I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                             

                            1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                             

                            2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                             

                            Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                             

                            3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                             

                            4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                             

                            We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                             

                            I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                             

                            Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                             

                            Very best regards,

                             

                            John      

                             


                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                             

                            No

                            Name of Proprietior

                            Name of Slave

                            Age

                            Description

                            Value

                            Remarks

                            648

                            Mrs M Barnes

                            Finny Caesar

                            60

                            Infirm

                            1/-

                             

                            649

                            ditto

                            Caroline Caesar

                            24

                            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                            25

                             

                            282

                            Mrs Harper

                            George Caesar

                            68

                            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                            10

                             

                            620

                            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                            John Caesar

                            25

                            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                            80

                             

                            622

                            ditto

                            Flora Caesar

                            32

                            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                            20

                             

                            357

                            Mr Greentree

                            Margaret Caesar

                            10

                            Not yet employed

                            15

                             

                            332

                            Mrs Lester

                            Mary Caesar

                            30

                            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                            35

                             

                            785

                            Mr Lambe

                            Massie Caesar

                            (married to Wm Caesar)

                            26

                            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                            25

                             

                            351

                            Mr Greentree

                            Michael Caesar

                            15

                            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                            60

                             

                            355

                            ditto

                            Sarah Caesar

                            16

                            House servant and nurse lent out

                            30

                             

                            780

                            Mr Lambe

                            William Caesar

                            44

                            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                             

                            Not valued No 19

                            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                            80

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Augustus Casar

                            18

                            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                            75

                             

                            108

                            Mrs Broadway

                            Benjamin Casar

                            54

                            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                            10

                             

                            76

                            Sergt Carolans Estate

                            Celia Casar

                            40

                            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                            40

                             

                            78

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Samuel Casar

                            39

                            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                            Granted]

                            90

                             

                             

                            Colin Fox

                             

                            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                             

                             

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                            >
                            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                            >

                            Paul,

                            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                            Very best regards,

                            John Gardiner

                             






                          • Arabella George
                            Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
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                              Hi Nancy-Jo
                              I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                              Regards 

                              Bella George

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                               

                              Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                               
                              It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                              of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                              These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi John
                              Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                               
                              Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                               
                              I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                               
                              You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                               
                              Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                               
                              I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                               
                              Very best regards,
                               
                              John 
                               
                              Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                              [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                              Contents:
                              Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                               
                              [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                              Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                              [See also 52394 A above]

                              Contents:
                              Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                  
                               
                               

                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                               

                              Best wishes

                               

                              Colin

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              Colin,

                               

                              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                               

                              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                               

                              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                               

                              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                               

                              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                               

                              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                               

                              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                               

                              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                               

                              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                               

                              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                               

                              Very best regards,

                               

                              John      

                               


                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                               

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              648

                              Mrs M Barnes

                              Finny Caesar

                              60

                              Infirm

                              1/-

                               

                              649

                              ditto

                              Caroline Caesar

                              24

                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                              25

                               

                              282

                              Mrs Harper

                              George Caesar

                              68

                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                              10

                               

                              620

                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                              John Caesar

                              25

                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                              80

                               

                              622

                              ditto

                              Flora Caesar

                              32

                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                              20

                               

                              357

                              Mr Greentree

                              Margaret Caesar

                              10

                              Not yet employed

                              15

                               

                              332

                              Mrs Lester

                              Mary Caesar

                              30

                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                              35

                               

                              785

                              Mr Lambe

                              Massie Caesar

                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                              26

                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                              25

                               

                              351

                              Mr Greentree

                              Michael Caesar

                              15

                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                              60

                               

                              355

                              ditto

                              Sarah Caesar

                              16

                              House servant and nurse lent out

                              30

                               

                              780

                              Mr Lambe

                              William Caesar

                              44

                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                               

                              Not valued No 19

                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                              80

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Augustus Casar

                              18

                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                              75

                               

                              108

                              Mrs Broadway

                              Benjamin Casar

                              54

                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                              10

                               

                              76

                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                              Celia Casar

                              40

                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                              40

                               

                              78

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Samuel Casar

                              39

                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                              Granted]

                              90

                               

                               

                              Colin Fox

                               

                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                               

                               

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                              >
                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                              >

                              Paul,

                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                              Very best regards,

                              John Gardiner

                               






                            • Shirley Morgan
                              I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
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                                I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                                 
                                Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                                Shirley


                                 

                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                From: shirleymorgan967@...
                                Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                                 

                                 
                                Hi All

                                I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                not anything else.

                                He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                Many thanks in advance

                                Shirley Morgan



                                Shirley





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