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Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • A. Russ
    Thanks, Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920. ... From: foxhome To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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      Thanks,
      Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: foxhome
      Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

      Regards

      Colin

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value

      Remarks

      333

      Mrs Lester

      Elizabeth Scott

      12

      Useful handy girl

      20

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
      Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      

      Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

      Regards,

      Alan

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value

      Remarks

      648

      Mrs M Barnes

      Finny Caesar

      60

      Infirm

      1/-

      649

      ditto

      Caroline Caesar

      24

      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

      25

      282

      Mrs Harper

      George Caesar

      68

      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

      10

      620

      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

      John Caesar

      25

      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

      80

      622

      ditto

      Flora Caesar

      32

      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

      20

      357

      Mr Greentree

      Margaret Caesar

      10

      Not yet employed

      15

      332

      Mrs Lester

      Mary Caesar

      30

      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

      35

      785

      Mr Lambe

      Massie Caesar

      (married to Wm Caesar)

      26

      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

      25

      351

      Mr Greentree

      Michael Caesar

      15

      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

      60

      355

      ditto

      Sarah Caesar

      16

      House servant and nurse lent out

      30

      780

      Mr Lambe

      William Caesar

      44

      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

      Not valued No 19

      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

      80

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Augustus Casar

      18

      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

      75

      108

      Mrs Broadway

      Benjamin Casar

      54

      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

      10

      76

      Sergt Carolans Estate

      Celia Casar

      40

      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

      40

      78

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Samuel Casar

      39

      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

      Granted]

      90

      Colin Fox

      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
      >
      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
      >
      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
      >

      Paul,

      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

      Very best regards,

      John Gardiner

    • foxhome
      Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person. Colin From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person.

         

        Colin

         

        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
        Sent: 14 June 2010 10:38
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

         

        

        Thanks,

        Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: foxhome

        Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM

        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

         

        Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

        Regards

        Colin

        No

        Name of Proprietior

        Name of Slave

        Age

        Description

        Value

        Remarks

        333

        Mrs Lester

        Elizabeth Scott

        12

        Useful handy girl

        20

        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
        Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        

        Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

        Regards,

        Alan

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


        From: foxhome <colin@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

        No

        Name of Proprietior

        Name of Slave

        Age

        Description

        Value

        Remarks

        648

        Mrs M Barnes

        Finny Caesar

        60

        Infirm

        1/-

        649

        ditto

        Caroline Caesar

        24

        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

        25

        282

        Mrs Harper

        George Caesar

        68

        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

        10

        620

        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

        John Caesar

        25

        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

        80

        622

        ditto

        Flora Caesar

        32

        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

        20

        357

        Mr Greentree

        Margaret Caesar

        10

        Not yet employed

        15

        332

        Mrs Lester

        Mary Caesar

        30

        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

        35

        785

        Mr Lambe

        Massie Caesar

        (married to Wm Caesar)

        26

        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

        25

        351

        Mr Greentree

        Michael Caesar

        15

        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

        60

        355

        ditto

        Sarah Caesar

        16

        House servant and nurse lent out

        30

        780

        Mr Lambe

        William Caesar

        44

        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

        Not valued No 19

        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

        80

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Augustus Casar

        18

        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

        75

        108

        Mrs Broadway

        Benjamin Casar

        54

        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

        10

        76

        Sergt Carolans Estate

        Celia Casar

        40

        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

        40

        78

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Samuel Casar

        39

        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

        Granted]

        90

        Colin Fox

        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
        >
        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        >
        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        >

        Paul,

        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

        Very best regards,

        John Gardiner

      • John Gardiner
        Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes -  We ll give you your freedom, but only after you ve taken out an HP agreement on yourself!  
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
           
          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
           
          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
           
          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
           
          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
           
          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
           
          Very best regards,
           
          John 
           
          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

          Contents:
          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
           
          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/54693  Feb-Jun 1833



          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
          [See also 52394 A above]

          Contents:
          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
              
           
           

          From: foxhome <colin@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

           

          Best wishes

           

          Colin

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          Colin,

           

          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

           

          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

           

          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

           

          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

           

          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

           

          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

           

          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

           

          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

           

          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

           

          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

           

          Very best regards,

           

          John      

           


          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          648

          Mrs M Barnes

          Finny Caesar

          60

          Infirm

          1/-

           

          649

          ditto

          Caroline Caesar

          24

          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

          25

           

          282

          Mrs Harper

          George Caesar

          68

          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

          10

           

          620

          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

          John Caesar

          25

          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

          80

           

          622

          ditto

          Flora Caesar

          32

          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

          20

           

          357

          Mr Greentree

          Margaret Caesar

          10

          Not yet employed

          15

           

          332

          Mrs Lester

          Mary Caesar

          30

          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

          35

           

          785

          Mr Lambe

          Massie Caesar

          (married to Wm Caesar)

          26

          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

          25

           

          351

          Mr Greentree

          Michael Caesar

          15

          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

          60

           

          355

          ditto

          Sarah Caesar

          16

          House servant and nurse lent out

          30

           

          780

          Mr Lambe

          William Caesar

          44

          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

           

          Not valued No 19

          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

          80

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Augustus Casar

          18

          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

          75

           

          108

          Mrs Broadway

          Benjamin Casar

          54

          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

          10

           

          76

          Sergt Carolans Estate

          Celia Casar

          40

          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

          40

           

          78

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Samuel Casar

          39

          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

          Granted]

          90

           

           

          Colin Fox

           

          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

           

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner

           


        • judith.armstrong77
          Hi John (or anyone out their) I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 15, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi John (or anyone out their)

            I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

            All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

            I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

            It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

            Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

            Judith Armstrong
            Elwood Australia


            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
            > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
            > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
            > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
            > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
            > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
            > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
            >
            > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
            > to be a member of.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No
            >
            > Name of Proprietior
            >
            > Name of Slave
            >
            > Age
            >
            > Description
            >
            > Value
            >
            > Remarks
            >
            >
            > 648
            >
            > Mrs M Barnes
            >
            > Finny Caesar
            >
            > 60
            >
            > Infirm
            >
            > 1/-
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 649
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > Caroline Caesar
            >
            > 24
            >
            > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
            >
            > 25
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 282
            >
            > Mrs Harper
            >
            > George Caesar
            >
            > 68
            >
            > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
            >
            > 10
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 620
            >
            > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
            >
            > John Caesar
            >
            > 25
            >
            > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
            >
            > 80
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 622
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > Flora Caesar
            >
            > 32
            >
            > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
            > servant unmarried
            >
            > 20
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 357
            >
            > Mr Greentree
            >
            > Margaret Caesar
            >
            > 10
            >
            > Not yet employed
            >
            > 15
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 332
            >
            > Mrs Lester
            >
            > Mary Caesar
            >
            > 30
            >
            > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
            >
            > 35
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 785
            >
            > Mr Lambe
            >
            > Massie Caesar
            >
            > (married to Wm Caesar)
            >
            > 26
            >
            > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
            >
            > 25
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 351
            >
            > Mr Greentree
            >
            > Michael Caesar
            >
            > 15
            >
            > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
            >
            > 60
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 355
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > Sarah Caesar
            >
            > 16
            >
            > House servant and nurse lent out
            >
            > 30
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 780
            >
            > Mr Lambe
            >
            > William Caesar
            >
            > 44
            >
            > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
            > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
            > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
            >
            > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
            > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
            > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
            > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
            > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
            > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
            > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
            > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
            > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
            > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
            > has been laid to his charge
            >
            >
            >
            > Not valued No 19
            >
            > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
            > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
            > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
            > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
            > inestimable blessing to St Helena
            >
            >
            > 80
            >
            > Mr G and H Alexander
            >
            > Augustus Casar
            >
            > 18
            >
            > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
            >
            > 75
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 108
            >
            > Mrs Broadway
            >
            > Benjamin Casar
            >
            > 54
            >
            > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
            >
            > 10
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 76
            >
            > Sergt Carolans Estate
            >
            > Celia Casar
            >
            > 40
            >
            > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
            >
            > 40
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 78
            >
            > Mr G and H Alexander
            >
            > Samuel Casar
            >
            > 39
            >
            > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
            > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
            >
            > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
            >
            > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
            > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
            > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
            > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
            > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
            > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
            > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
            > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
            > respectful he is not mortgaged.
            >
            > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
            >
            > Granted]
            >
            > 90
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Colin Fox
            >
            >
            >
            > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > gardiner.john@...
            > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
            > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
            > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
            > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
            > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            > >
            > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
            > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            > >
            >
            > Paul,
            >
            > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
            > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
            > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
            > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
            > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
            >
            > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
            > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
            > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
            > was Louisa's father.
            >
            > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
            > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
            > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
            > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
            > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
            >
            > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
            > too.
            >
            > Very best regards,
            >
            > John Gardiner
            >
          • John Gardiner
            Hello, Judith. I m sorry, I ve only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you. Keep perservering.  I m
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello, Judith.
               
              I'm sorry, I've only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you.
               
              Keep perservering.  I'm sure more information will turn up.
               
              Very best regards,
               
              John


              From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 6:07:46
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi John (or anyone out their)

              I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

              All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

              I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

              It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

              Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

              Judith Armstrong
              Elwood Australia

              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

              >
              > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
              > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
              > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
              > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
              > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
              > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
              > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
              >
              > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
              > to be a member
              of.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > No
              >
              > Name of Proprietior
              >
              > Name of Slave
              >
              > Age
              >
              > Description
              >
              > Value
              >
              > Remarks
              >
              >
              > 648
              >
              > Mrs M Barnes
              >
              > Finny Caesar
              >
              > 60
              >
              > Infirm
              >
              > 1/-
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 649
              >
              > ditto
              >
              > Caroline Caesar
              >
              > 24
              >
              > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
              >
              > 25
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 282
              >
              > Mrs Harper
              >
              > George Caesar
              >
              > 68
              >
              > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
              >
              > 10
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 620
              >
              > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
              >
              > John Caesar
              >
              > 25
              >
              >
              Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
              >
              > 80
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 622
              >
              > ditto
              >
              > Flora Caesar
              >
              > 32
              >
              > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
              > servant unmarried
              >
              > 20
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 357
              >
              > Mr Greentree
              >
              > Margaret Caesar
              >
              > 10
              >
              > Not yet employed
              >
              > 15
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 332
              >
              > Mrs Lester
              >
              > Mary Caesar
              >
              > 30
              >
              > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
              >
              > 35
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 785
              >
              > Mr Lambe
              >
              > Massie Caesar
              >
              > (married to Wm Caesar)
              >
              > 26
              >
              > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children
              youngest 3 years
              >
              > 25
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 351
              >
              > Mr Greentree
              >
              > Michael Caesar
              >
              > 15
              >
              > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
              >
              > 60
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 355
              >
              > ditto
              >
              > Sarah Caesar
              >
              > 16
              >
              > House servant and nurse lent out
              >
              > 30
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 780
              >
              > Mr Lambe
              >
              > William Caesar
              >
              > 44
              >
              > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
              > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
              > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
              >
              > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
              > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any
              on this
              > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
              > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
              > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
              > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
              > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
              > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
              > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
              > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
              > has been laid to his charge
              >
              >
              >
              > Not valued No 19
              >
              > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
              > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
              > one half of the sum at which
              he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
              > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
              > inestimable blessing to St Helena
              >
              >
              > 80
              >
              > Mr G and H Alexander
              >
              > Augustus Casar
              >
              > 18
              >
              > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
              >
              > 75
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 108
              >
              > Mrs Broadway
              >
              > Benjamin Casar
              >
              > 54
              >
              > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
              >
              > 10
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 76
              >
              > Sergt Carolans Estate
              >
              > Celia Casar
              >
              > 40
              >
              > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
              >
              > 40
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 78
              >
              > Mr G and H Alexander
              >
              > Samuel
              Casar
              >
              > 39
              >
              > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
              > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
              >
              > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
              >
              > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
              > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
              > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
              > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
              > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
              > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
              > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
              > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
              > respectful he is not mortgaged.
              >
              > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
              >
              > Granted]
              >
              > 90
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Colin Fox
              >
              >
              >
              > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > gardiner.john@...
              > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              > To:
              ymailto="mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com">st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
              > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
              > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
              > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
              > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              > >
              > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's
              marriage to Timms, birth
              > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              > >
              >
              > Paul,
              >
              > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
              > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
              > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
              > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
              > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
              >
              > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
              > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
              > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
              > was Louisa's father.
              >
              > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
              > island up to 1865 when Samuel
              Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
              > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
              > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
              > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
              >
              > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
              > too.
              >
              > Very best regards,
              >
              > John Gardiner
              >


            • Jake
              Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
              • 0 Attachment

                Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

                http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

                 

                Jake

                 

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
                Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                Hi John (or anyone out their)

                I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                Judith Armstrong
                Elwood Australia

                --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                >
                > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
                by
                > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
                be
                > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
                future
                > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
                Connections magazine)
                >
                > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
                society
                > to be a member of.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > No
                >
                > Name of Proprietior
                >
                > Name of Slave
                >
                > Age
                >
                > Description
                >
                > Value
                >
                > Remarks
                >
                >
                > 648
                >
                > Mrs M Barnes
                >
                > Finny Caesar
                >
                > 60
                >
                > Infirm
                >
                > 1/-
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 649
                >
                > ditto
                >
                > Caroline Caesar
                >
                > 24
                >
                > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                >
                > 25
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 282
                >
                > Mrs Harper
                >
                > George Caesar
                >
                > 68
                >
                > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                >
                > 10
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 620
                >
                > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                >
                > John Caesar
                >
                > 25
                >
                > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                >
                > 80
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 622
                >
                > ditto
                >
                > Flora Caesar
                >
                > 32
                >
                > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                > servant unmarried
                >
                > 20
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 357
                >
                > Mr Greentree
                >
                > Margaret Caesar
                >
                > 10
                >
                > Not yet employed
                >
                > 15
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 332
                >
                > Mrs Lester
                >
                > Mary Caesar
                >
                > 30
                >
                > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                >
                > 35
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 785
                >
                > Mr Lambe
                >
                > Massie Caesar
                >
                > (married to Wm Caesar)
                >
                > 26
                >
                > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                >
                > 25
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 351
                >
                > Mr Greentree
                >
                > Michael Caesar
                >
                > 15
                >
                > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                >
                > 60
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 355
                >
                > ditto
                >
                > Sarah Caesar
                >
                > 16
                >
                > House servant and nurse lent out
                >
                > 30
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 780
                >
                > Mr Lambe
                >
                > William Caesar
                >
                > 44
                >
                > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                >
                > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
                years
                > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
                this
                > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
                to
                > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
                10
                > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                > has been laid to his charge
                >
                >
                >
                > Not valued No 19
                >
                > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                >
                >
                > 80
                >
                > Mr G and H Alexander
                >
                > Augustus Casar
                >
                > 18
                >
                > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                >
                > 75
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 108
                >
                > Mrs Broadway
                >
                > Benjamin Casar
                >
                > 54
                >
                > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                >
                > 10
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 76
                >
                > Sergt Carolans Estate
                >
                > Celia Casar
                >
                > 40
                >
                > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
                £12/annum
                >
                > 40
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 78
                >
                > Mr G and H Alexander
                >
                > Samuel Casar
                >
                > 39
                >
                > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
                class
                > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                >
                > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                >
                > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
                to
                > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
                family.
                > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
                character
                > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                >
                > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                >
                > Granted]
                >
                > 90
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Colin Fox
                >
                >
                >
                > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of
                > gardiner.john@...
                > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
                <pd91223@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
                Helena
                > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
                cert
                > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
                maiden
                > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                > >
                > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
                origins.
                > >
                >
                > Paul,
                >
                > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
                on
                > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
                in
                > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                >
                > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                > was Louisa's father.
                >
                > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
                to
                > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                >
                > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
                siblings,
                > too.
                >
                > Very best regards,
                >
                > John Gardiner
                >

              • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


                  From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Hi John (or anyone out their)

                  I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                  All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                  I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                  It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                  Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                  Judith Armstrong
                  Elwood Australia

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                  > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                  > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                  > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                  > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                  > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                  > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                  >
                  > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                  > to be a member of.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No
                  >
                  > Name of Proprietior
                  >
                  > Name of Slave
                  >
                  > Age
                  >
                  > Description
                  >
                  > Value
                  >
                  > Remarks
                  >
                  >
                  > 648
                  >
                  > Mrs M Barnes
                  >
                  > Finny Caesar
                  >
                  > 60
                  >
                  > Infirm
                  >
                  > 1/-
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 649
                  >
                  > ditto
                  >
                  > Caroline Caesar
                  >
                  > 24
                  >
                  > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                  >
                  > 25
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 282
                  >
                  > Mrs Harper
                  >
                  > George Caesar
                  >
                  > 68
                  >
                  > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                  >
                  > 10
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 620
                  >
                  > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                  >
                  > John Caesar
                  >
                  > 25
                  >
                  > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
                  good
                  >
                  > 80
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 622
                  >
                  > ditto
                  >
                  > Flora Caesar
                  >
                  > 32
                  >
                  > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                  > servant unmarried
                  >
                  > 20
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 357
                  >
                  > Mr Greentree
                  >
                  > Margaret Caesar
                  >
                  > 10
                  >
                  > Not yet employed
                  >
                  > 15
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 332
                  >
                  > Mrs Lester
                  >
                  > Mary Caesar
                  >
                  > 30
                  >
                  > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                  >
                  > 35
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 785
                  >
                  > Mr Lambe
                  >
                  > Massie Caesar
                  >
                  > (married to Wm Caesar)
                  >
                  > 26
                  >
                  > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                  >
                  > 25
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 351
                  >
                  > Mr Greentree
                  >
                  > Michael Caesar
                  >
                  > 15
                  >
                  > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                  >
                  > 60
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 355
                  >
                  > ditto
                  >
                  > Sarah Caesar
                  >
                  > 16
                  >
                  > House servant and nurse lent out
                  >
                  > 30
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 780
                  >
                  > Mr Lambe
                  >
                  > William Caesar
                  >
                  > 44
                  >
                  > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                  > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                  > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                  >
                  > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                  > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                  > island is an excellent mower
                  ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                  > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                  > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                  > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                  > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                  > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                  > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                  > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                  > has been laid to his charge
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Not valued No 19
                  >
                  > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                  > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                  > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
                  the
                  > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                  > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                  >
                  >
                  > 80
                  >
                  > Mr G and H Alexander
                  >
                  > Augustus Casar
                  >
                  > 18
                  >
                  > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                  >
                  > 75
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 108
                  >
                  > Mrs Broadway
                  >
                  > Benjamin Casar
                  >
                  > 54
                  >
                  > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                  >
                  > 10
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 76
                  >
                  > Sergt Carolans Estate
                  >
                  > Celia Casar
                  >
                  > 40
                  >
                  > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                  >
                  > 40
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 78
                  >
                  > Mr G and H Alexander
                  >
                  > Samuel Casar
                  >
                  > 39
                  >
                  > Good
                  mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                  > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                  >
                  > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                  >
                  > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                  > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                  > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                  > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                  > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                  > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                  > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                  > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                  > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                  >
                  > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                  >
                  > Granted]
                  >
                  > 90
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Colin Fox
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > gardiner.john@...
                  > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                  > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                  > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                  > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                  > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                  > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                  > >
                  > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                  > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Paul,
                  >
                  > Just saw your
                  post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                  > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                  > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                  > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                  > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                  >
                  > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                  > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                  > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                  > was Louisa's father.
                  >
                  > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                  > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                  > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                  > information is in a Word document and is difficult
                  to post here but happy to
                  > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                  >
                  > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                  > too.
                  >
                  > Very best regards,
                  >
                  > John Gardiner
                  >


                • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                  Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi John
                    Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                     
                    Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                     
                    I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                     
                    You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                     
                    Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                     
                    I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                     
                    Very best regards,
                     
                    John 
                     
                    Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                    [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                    Contents:
                    Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                     
                    [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                    Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                    [See also 52394 A above]

                    Contents:
                    Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                        
                     
                     

                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                    There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                    There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                     

                    Best wishes

                     

                    Colin

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                    Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    Colin,

                     

                    Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                     

                    I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                     

                    1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                     

                    2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                     

                    Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                     

                    3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                     

                    4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                     

                    We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                     

                    I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                     

                    Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                     

                    Very best regards,

                     

                    John      

                     


                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                     

                    No

                    Name of Proprietior

                    Name of Slave

                    Age

                    Description

                    Value

                    Remarks

                    648

                    Mrs M Barnes

                    Finny Caesar

                    60

                    Infirm

                    1/-

                     

                    649

                    ditto

                    Caroline Caesar

                    24

                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                    25

                     

                    282

                    Mrs Harper

                    George Caesar

                    68

                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                    10

                     

                    620

                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                    John Caesar

                    25

                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                    80

                     

                    622

                    ditto

                    Flora Caesar

                    32

                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                    20

                     

                    357

                    Mr Greentree

                    Margaret Caesar

                    10

                    Not yet employed

                    15

                     

                    332

                    Mrs Lester

                    Mary Caesar

                    30

                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                    35

                     

                    785

                    Mr Lambe

                    Massie Caesar

                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                    26

                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                    25

                     

                    351

                    Mr Greentree

                    Michael Caesar

                    15

                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                    60

                     

                    355

                    ditto

                    Sarah Caesar

                    16

                    House servant and nurse lent out

                    30

                     

                    780

                    Mr Lambe

                    William Caesar

                    44

                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                     

                    Not valued No 19

                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                    80

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Augustus Casar

                    18

                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                    75

                     

                    108

                    Mrs Broadway

                    Benjamin Casar

                    54

                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                    10

                     

                    76

                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                    Celia Casar

                    40

                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                    40

                     

                    78

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Samuel Casar

                    39

                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                    Granted]

                    90

                     

                     

                    Colin Fox

                     

                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                     

                     

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    >
                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    >

                    Paul,

                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                    Very best regards,

                    John Gardiner

                     



                  • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                    Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


                      From: foxhome <colin@...>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                      Regards

                       

                      Colin

                       

                       

                      No

                      Name of Proprietior

                      Name of Slave

                      Age

                      Description

                      Value

                      Remarks

                      333

                       

                      Mrs Lester

                      Elizabeth Scott

                      12

                      Useful handy girl

                      20

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                      Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      

                      Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                      Regards,

                      Alan

                       

                       

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                       


                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                       

                      No

                      Name of Proprietior

                      Name of Slave

                      Age

                      Description

                      Value

                      Remarks

                      648

                      Mrs M Barnes

                      Finny Caesar

                      60

                      Infirm

                      1/-

                       

                      649

                      ditto

                      Caroline Caesar

                      24

                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                      25

                       

                      282

                      Mrs Harper

                      George Caesar

                      68

                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                      10

                       

                      620

                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                      John Caesar

                      25

                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                      80

                       

                      622

                      ditto

                      Flora Caesar

                      32

                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                      20

                       

                      357

                      Mr Greentree

                      Margaret Caesar

                      10

                      Not yet employed

                      15

                       

                      332

                      Mrs Lester

                      Mary Caesar

                      30

                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                      35

                       

                      785

                      Mr Lambe

                      Massie Caesar

                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                      26

                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                      25

                       

                      351

                      Mr Greentree

                      Michael Caesar

                      15

                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                      60

                       

                      355

                      ditto

                      Sarah Caesar

                      16

                      House servant and nurse lent out

                      30

                       

                      780

                      Mr Lambe

                      William Caesar

                      44

                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                       

                      Not valued No 19

                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                      80

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Augustus Casar

                      18

                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                      75

                       

                      108

                      Mrs Broadway

                      Benjamin Casar

                      54

                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                      10

                       

                      76

                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                      Celia Casar

                      40

                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                      40

                       

                      78

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Samuel Casar

                      39

                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                      Granted]

                      90

                       

                       

                      Colin Fox

                       

                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                       

                       

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                      >
                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                      >

                      Paul,

                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                      Very best regards,

                      John Gardiner

                       


                    • John Gardiner
                      Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                         
                        It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                        of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                        These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi John
                        Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                         
                        Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                         
                        I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                         
                        You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                         
                        Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                         
                        I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                         
                        Very best regards,
                         
                        John 
                         
                        Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                        [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                        Contents:
                        Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                         
                        [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                        Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                        [See also 52394 A above]

                        Contents:
                        Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                            
                         
                         

                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                        There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                        There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                         

                        Best wishes

                         

                        Colin

                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                        Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                         

                        Colin,

                         

                        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                         

                        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                         

                        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                         

                        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                         

                        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                         

                        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                         

                        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                         

                        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                         

                        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                         

                        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                         

                        Very best regards,

                         

                        John      

                         


                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                         

                        No

                        Name of Proprietior

                        Name of Slave

                        Age

                        Description

                        Value

                        Remarks

                        648

                        Mrs M Barnes

                        Finny Caesar

                        60

                        Infirm

                        1/-

                         

                        649

                        ditto

                        Caroline Caesar

                        24

                        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                        25

                         

                        282

                        Mrs Harper

                        George Caesar

                        68

                        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                        10

                         

                        620

                        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                        John Caesar

                        25

                        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                        80

                         

                        622

                        ditto

                        Flora Caesar

                        32

                        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                        20

                         

                        357

                        Mr Greentree

                        Margaret Caesar

                        10

                        Not yet employed

                        15

                         

                        332

                        Mrs Lester

                        Mary Caesar

                        30

                        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                        35

                         

                        785

                        Mr Lambe

                        Massie Caesar

                        (married to Wm Caesar)

                        26

                        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                        25

                         

                        351

                        Mr Greentree

                        Michael Caesar

                        15

                        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                        60

                         

                        355

                        ditto

                        Sarah Caesar

                        16

                        House servant and nurse lent out

                        30

                         

                        780

                        Mr Lambe

                        William Caesar

                        44

                        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                         

                        Not valued No 19

                        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                        80

                        Mr G and H Alexander

                        Augustus Casar

                        18

                        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                        75

                         

                        108

                        Mrs Broadway

                        Benjamin Casar

                        54

                        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                        10

                         

                        76

                        Sergt Carolans Estate

                        Celia Casar

                        40

                        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                        40

                         

                        78

                        Mr G and H Alexander

                        Samuel Casar

                        39

                        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                        Granted]

                        90

                         

                         

                        Colin Fox

                         

                        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                         

                         

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                         

                        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                        >
                        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                        >

                        Paul,

                        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                        Very best regards,

                        John Gardiner

                         




                      • foxhome
                        Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                          Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                           

                          Colin

                           

                          No

                          Name of Proprietior

                          Name of Slave

                          Age

                          Description

                          Value £

                          Remarks

                          65

                          Capt Broadway

                          Jacob George

                          43

                          Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                          65

                           

                          179

                          Mr Darling

                          James George

                          9

                          A house boy

                          25

                           

                          180

                          Mr Darling

                          Peggy George

                          22

                          House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                          30

                           

                          181

                          Mr Darling

                          John George

                          20

                          A good cook and very useful servant

                          90

                           

                          183

                          Mr Darling

                          Jacob George

                          17

                          A good waiting servant

                          70

                           

                          208

                          Mr Dring

                          Sarah George

                          22

                          Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                           

                          Not valued No 5

                          246

                          Mr Janisch

                          Louisa George

                          11

                          Useful little girl

                          20

                           

                          273

                          Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                          May George

                          33

                          A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                          105

                           

                          277

                          Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                          John George

                          37

                          First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                          105

                           

                          279

                          Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                          Frances George

                          10

                          Useful farm boy

                          30

                           

                          281

                          Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                          Nanny George

                          36

                          Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                          20

                           

                          378

                          Mr Mulhall

                          Lucy George

                          28

                          Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                          30

                           

                          379

                          Mr Mulhall

                          Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                          13

                          A very useful house girl

                          30

                           

                          428

                          Major D K Pritchard

                          Charles George

                          34

                          A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                          105

                           

                          429

                          Mr H T Seale

                          Jane George

                          43

                          Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                          30

                           

                          433

                          Dr Lorimer

                          Martha George

                          16

                          Useful house servant good character

                          30

                           

                          483

                          Miss Mason

                          Susan George

                          24

                          Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                          20

                           

                          498

                          Mr B Solomon

                          Benj George

                          10

                          Useful houseboy

                          35

                           

                          501

                          Mr S Solomon

                          Dolly George

                          17

                          Needlewoman and nurse

                          25

                           

                          519

                          Mr William Seale jun.

                          Nancy George

                          26

                          Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                          25

                           

                          525

                          Major Seale

                          Sally George

                          22

                          Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                          40

                           

                          534

                          Major Seale

                          Ruth George

                          18

                          A good house servant

                          30

                           

                          535

                          Major Seale

                          Martha George

                          13

                          A good house servant

                          25

                           

                          541

                          Major Seale

                          James George

                          32

                          Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                           

                          Not valued No 11

                          542

                          Major Seale

                          Benj George

                          18

                          Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                           

                          Not valued no 12

                          543

                          Major Seale

                          Harry George

                          21

                          A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                          110

                           

                          544

                          Major Seale

                          Cornelius George

                          13

                        • Shirley Morgan
                          Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                            Hi All

                            I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                            (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                            assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                            not anything else.

                            He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                            writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                            he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                            Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                            I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                            so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                            Many thanks in advance

                            Shirley Morgan



                            Shirley





                            Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                          • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                            Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
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                              Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                               
                              It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                              of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                              These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi John
                              Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                               
                              Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                               
                              I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                               
                              You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                               
                              Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                               
                              I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                               
                              Very best regards,
                               
                              John 
                               
                              Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                              [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                              Contents:
                              Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                               
                              [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                              Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                              [See also 52394 A above]

                              Contents:
                              Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                  
                               
                               

                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                               

                              Best wishes

                               

                              Colin

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              Colin,

                               

                              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                               

                              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                               

                              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                               

                              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                               

                              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                               

                              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                               

                              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                               

                              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                               

                              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                               

                              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                               

                              Very best regards,

                               

                              John      

                               


                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                               

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              648

                              Mrs M Barnes

                              Finny Caesar

                              60

                              Infirm

                              1/-

                               

                              649

                              ditto

                              Caroline Caesar

                              24

                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                              25

                               

                              282

                              Mrs Harper

                              George Caesar

                              68

                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                              10

                               

                              620

                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                              John Caesar

                              25

                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                              80

                               

                              622

                              ditto

                              Flora Caesar

                              32

                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                              20

                               

                              357

                              Mr Greentree

                              Margaret Caesar

                              10

                              Not yet employed

                              15

                               

                              332

                              Mrs Lester

                              Mary Caesar

                              30

                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                              35

                               

                              785

                              Mr Lambe

                              Massie Caesar

                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                              26

                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                              25

                               

                              351

                              Mr Greentree

                              Michael Caesar

                              15

                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                              60

                               

                              355

                              ditto

                              Sarah Caesar

                              16

                              House servant and nurse lent out

                              30

                               

                              780

                              Mr Lambe

                              William Caesar

                              44

                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                               

                              Not valued No 19

                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                              80

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Augustus Casar

                              18

                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                              75

                               

                              108

                              Mrs Broadway

                              Benjamin Casar

                              54

                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                              10

                               

                              76

                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                              Celia Casar

                              40

                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                              40

                               

                              78

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Samuel Casar

                              39

                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                              Granted]

                              90

                               

                               

                              Colin Fox

                               

                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                               

                               

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                              >
                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                              >

                              Paul,

                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                              Very best regards,

                              John Gardiner

                               





                            • John Gardiner
                              Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                 
                                It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi John
                                Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                 
                                Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                 
                                I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                 
                                You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                 
                                Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                 
                                I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                 
                                Very best regards,
                                 
                                John 
                                 
                                Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                Contents:
                                Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                 
                                [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                [See also 52394 A above]

                                Contents:
                                Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                    
                                 
                                 

                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                 

                                Best wishes

                                 

                                Colin

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                Colin,

                                 

                                Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                 

                                I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                 

                                1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                 

                                2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                 

                                Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                 

                                3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                 

                                4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                 

                                We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                 

                                I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                 

                                Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                 

                                Very best regards,

                                 

                                John      

                                 


                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                 

                                No

                                Name of Proprietior

                                Name of Slave

                                Age

                                Description

                                Value

                                Remarks

                                648

                                Mrs M Barnes

                                Finny Caesar

                                60

                                Infirm

                                1/-

                                 

                                649

                                ditto

                                Caroline Caesar

                                24

                                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                25

                                 

                                282

                                Mrs Harper

                                George Caesar

                                68

                                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                10

                                 

                                620

                                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                John Caesar

                                25

                                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                80

                                 

                                622

                                ditto

                                Flora Caesar

                                32

                                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                20

                                 

                                357

                                Mr Greentree

                                Margaret Caesar

                                10

                                Not yet employed

                                15

                                 

                                332

                                Mrs Lester

                                Mary Caesar

                                30

                                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                35

                                 

                                785

                                Mr Lambe

                                Massie Caesar

                                (married to Wm Caesar)

                                26

                                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                25

                                 

                                351

                                Mr Greentree

                                Michael Caesar

                                15

                                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                60

                                 

                                355

                                ditto

                                Sarah Caesar

                                16

                                House servant and nurse lent out

                                30

                                 

                                780

                                Mr Lambe

                                William Caesar

                                44

                                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                 

                                Not valued No 19

                                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                80

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Augustus Casar

                                18

                                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                75

                                 

                                108

                                Mrs Broadway

                                Benjamin Casar

                                54

                                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                10

                                 

                                76

                                Sergt Carolans Estate

                                Celia Casar

                                40

                                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                40

                                 

                                78

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Samuel Casar

                                39

                                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                Granted]

                                90

                                 

                                 

                                Colin Fox

                                 

                                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                >
                                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                >

                                Paul,

                                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                Very best regards,

                                John Gardiner

                                 






                              • Arabella George
                                Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Nancy-Jo
                                  I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                                  Regards 

                                  Bella George

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                  From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                  From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                   
                                  It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                  of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                  These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                  From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Hi John
                                  Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                  From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                   
                                  Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                   
                                  I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                   
                                  You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                   
                                  Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                   
                                  I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                   
                                  Very best regards,
                                   
                                  John 
                                   
                                  Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                  [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                  Contents:
                                  Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                   
                                  [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                  Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                  [See also 52394 A above]

                                  Contents:
                                  Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                      
                                   
                                   

                                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                  There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                  There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                   

                                  Best wishes

                                   

                                  Colin

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                  Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                   

                                  Colin,

                                   

                                  Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                   

                                  I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                   

                                  1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                   

                                  2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                   

                                  Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                   

                                  3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                   

                                  4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                   

                                  We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                   

                                  I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                   

                                  Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                   

                                  Very best regards,

                                   

                                  John      

                                   


                                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                   

                                  No

                                  Name of Proprietior

                                  Name of Slave

                                  Age

                                  Description

                                  Value

                                  Remarks

                                  648

                                  Mrs M Barnes

                                  Finny Caesar

                                  60

                                  Infirm

                                  1/-

                                   

                                  649

                                  ditto

                                  Caroline Caesar

                                  24

                                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                  25

                                   

                                  282

                                  Mrs Harper

                                  George Caesar

                                  68

                                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                  10

                                   

                                  620

                                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                  John Caesar

                                  25

                                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                  80

                                   

                                  622

                                  ditto

                                  Flora Caesar

                                  32

                                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                  20

                                   

                                  357

                                  Mr Greentree

                                  Margaret Caesar

                                  10

                                  Not yet employed

                                  15

                                   

                                  332

                                  Mrs Lester

                                  Mary Caesar

                                  30

                                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                  35

                                   

                                  785

                                  Mr Lambe

                                  Massie Caesar

                                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                                  26

                                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                  25

                                   

                                  351

                                  Mr Greentree

                                  Michael Caesar

                                  15

                                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                  60

                                   

                                  355

                                  ditto

                                  Sarah Caesar

                                  16

                                  House servant and nurse lent out

                                  30

                                   

                                  780

                                  Mr Lambe

                                  William Caesar

                                  44

                                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                   

                                  Not valued No 19

                                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                  80

                                  Mr G and H Alexander

                                  Augustus Casar

                                  18

                                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                  75

                                   

                                  108

                                  Mrs Broadway

                                  Benjamin Casar

                                  54

                                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                  10

                                   

                                  76

                                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                                  Celia Casar

                                  40

                                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                  40

                                   

                                  78

                                  Mr G and H Alexander

                                  Samuel Casar

                                  39

                                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                  Granted]

                                  90

                                   

                                   

                                  Colin Fox

                                   

                                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                   

                                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                  >
                                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                  >

                                  Paul,

                                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                  Very best regards,

                                  John Gardiner

                                   






                                • Shirley Morgan
                                  I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                    (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                                     
                                    Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                                    Shirley


                                     

                                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: shirleymorgan967@...
                                    Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                                     

                                     
                                    Hi All

                                    I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                    (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                    assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                    not anything else.

                                    He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                    writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                    he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                    Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                    I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                    so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                    Many thanks in advance

                                    Shirley Morgan



                                    Shirley





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