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Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • John Gardiner
    Colin, Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
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      Colin,
       
      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 
       
      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  
       
      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.
       
      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  
       
      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  
       
      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 
       
      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.
       
      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 
       
      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.
       
      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.
       
      Very best regards,
       
      John      


      From: foxhome <colin@...>
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

       

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value

      Remarks

      648

      Mrs M Barnes

      Finny Caesar

      60

      Infirm

      1/-

       

      649

      ditto

      Caroline Caesar

      24

      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

      25

       

      282

      Mrs Harper

      George Caesar

      68

      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

      10

       

      620

      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

      John Caesar

      25

      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

      80

       

      622

      ditto

      Flora Caesar

      32

      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

      20

       

      357

      Mr Greentree

      Margaret Caesar

      10

      Not yet employed

      15

       

      332

      Mrs Lester

      Mary Caesar

      30

      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

      35

       

      785

      Mr Lambe

      Massie Caesar

      (married to Wm Caesar)

      26

      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

      25

       

      351

      Mr Greentree

      Michael Caesar

      15

      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

      60

       

      355

      ditto

      Sarah Caesar

      16

      House servant and nurse lent out

      30

       

      780

      Mr Lambe

      William Caesar

      44

      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

       

      Not valued No 19

      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

      80

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Augustus Casar

      18

      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

      75

       

      108

      Mrs Broadway

      Benjamin Casar

      54

      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

      10

       

      76

      Sergt Carolans Estate

      Celia Casar

      40

      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

      40

       

      78

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Samuel Casar

      39

      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

      Granted]

      90

       

       

      Colin Fox

       

      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

       

       

       

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

       

      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
      >
      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
      >
      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
      >

      Paul,

      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

      Very best regards,

      John Gardiner


    • foxhome
      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264. In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

        There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

        There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

         

        Best wishes

         

        Colin

        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
        Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

         

        Colin,

         

        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 

         

        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

         

        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

         

        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

         

        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

         

        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

         

        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

         

        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

         

        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

         

        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

         

        Very best regards,

         

        John      

         


        From: foxhome <colin@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

         

        No

        Name of Proprietior

        Name of Slave

        Age

        Description

        Value

        Remarks

        648

        Mrs M Barnes

        Finny Caesar

        60

        Infirm

        1/-

         

        649

        ditto

        Caroline Caesar

        24

        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

        25

         

        282

        Mrs Harper

        George Caesar

        68

        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

        10

         

        620

        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

        John Caesar

        25

        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

        80

         

        622

        ditto

        Flora Caesar

        32

        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

        20

         

        357

        Mr Greentree

        Margaret Caesar

        10

        Not yet employed

        15

         

        332

        Mrs Lester

        Mary Caesar

        30

        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

        35

         

        785

        Mr Lambe

        Massie Caesar

        (married to Wm Caesar)

        26

        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

        25

         

        351

        Mr Greentree

        Michael Caesar

        15

        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

        60

         

        355

        ditto

        Sarah Caesar

        16

        House servant and nurse lent out

        30

         

        780

        Mr Lambe

        William Caesar

        44

        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

         

        Not valued No 19

        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

        80

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Augustus Casar

        18

        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

        75

         

        108

        Mrs Broadway

        Benjamin Casar

        54

        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

        10

         

        76

        Sergt Carolans Estate

        Celia Casar

        40

        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

        40

         

        78

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Samuel Casar

        39

        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

        Granted]

        90

         

         

        Colin Fox

         

        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

         

         

         

        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

         

        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:

        >
        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
        from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        >
        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
        details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        >

        Paul,

        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

        Very best regards,

        John Gardiner

         

      • foxhome
        Alan, Not much but the name does appear. Regards Colin No Name of Proprietior Name of Slave Age Description Value Remarks 333 Mrs Lester Elizabeth Scott 12
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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          Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

          Regards

           

          Colin

           

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          333

           

          Mrs Lester

          Elizabeth Scott

          12

          Useful handy girl

          20

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
          Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          

          Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

          Regards,

          Alan

           

           

          ----- Original Message -----

          Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

           


          From: foxhome <colin@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          648

          Mrs M Barnes

          Finny Caesar

          60

          Infirm

          1/-

           

          649

          ditto

          Caroline Caesar

          24

          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

          25

           

          282

          Mrs Harper

          George Caesar

          68

          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

          10

           

          620

          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

          John Caesar

          25

          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

          80

           

          622

          ditto

          Flora Caesar

          32

          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

          20

           

          357

          Mr Greentree

          Margaret Caesar

          10

          Not yet employed

          15

           

          332

          Mrs Lester

          Mary Caesar

          30

          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

          35

           

          785

          Mr Lambe

          Massie Caesar

          (married to Wm Caesar)

          26

          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

          25

           

          351

          Mr Greentree

          Michael Caesar

          15

          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

          60

           

          355

          ditto

          Sarah Caesar

          16

          House servant and nurse lent out

          30

           

          780

          Mr Lambe

          William Caesar

          44

          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

           

          Not valued No 19

          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

          80

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Augustus Casar

          18

          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

          75

           

          108

          Mrs Broadway

          Benjamin Casar

          54

          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

          10

           

          76

          Sergt Carolans Estate

          Celia Casar

          40

          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

          40

           

          78

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Samuel Casar

          39

          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

          Granted]

          90

           

           

          Colin Fox

           

          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

           

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner

           

        • A. Russ
          Thanks, Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920. ... From: foxhome To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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            Thanks,
            Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: foxhome
            Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

            Regards

            Colin

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            333

            Mrs Lester

            Elizabeth Scott

            12

            Useful handy girl

            20

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
            Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            

            Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

            Regards,

            Alan

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            648

            Mrs M Barnes

            Finny Caesar

            60

            Infirm

            1/-

            649

            ditto

            Caroline Caesar

            24

            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

            25

            282

            Mrs Harper

            George Caesar

            68

            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

            10

            620

            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

            John Caesar

            25

            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

            80

            622

            ditto

            Flora Caesar

            32

            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

            20

            357

            Mr Greentree

            Margaret Caesar

            10

            Not yet employed

            15

            332

            Mrs Lester

            Mary Caesar

            30

            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

            35

            785

            Mr Lambe

            Massie Caesar

            (married to Wm Caesar)

            26

            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

            25

            351

            Mr Greentree

            Michael Caesar

            15

            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

            60

            355

            ditto

            Sarah Caesar

            16

            House servant and nurse lent out

            30

            780

            Mr Lambe

            William Caesar

            44

            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

            Not valued No 19

            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

            80

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Augustus Casar

            18

            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

            75

            108

            Mrs Broadway

            Benjamin Casar

            54

            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

            10

            76

            Sergt Carolans Estate

            Celia Casar

            40

            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

            40

            78

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Samuel Casar

            39

            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

            Granted]

            90

            Colin Fox

            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
            >
            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            >
            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            >

            Paul,

            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

            Very best regards,

            John Gardiner

          • foxhome
            Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person. Colin From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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              Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person.

               

              Colin

               

              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
              Sent: 14 June 2010 10:38
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              

              Thanks,

              Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.

               

               

              ----- Original Message -----

              From: foxhome

              Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM

              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

              Regards

              Colin

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              333

              Mrs Lester

              Elizabeth Scott

              12

              Useful handy girl

              20

              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
              Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              

              Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

              Regards,

              Alan

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


              From: foxhome <colin@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              648

              Mrs M Barnes

              Finny Caesar

              60

              Infirm

              1/-

              649

              ditto

              Caroline Caesar

              24

              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

              25

              282

              Mrs Harper

              George Caesar

              68

              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

              10

              620

              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

              John Caesar

              25

              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

              80

              622

              ditto

              Flora Caesar

              32

              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

              20

              357

              Mr Greentree

              Margaret Caesar

              10

              Not yet employed

              15

              332

              Mrs Lester

              Mary Caesar

              30

              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

              35

              785

              Mr Lambe

              Massie Caesar

              (married to Wm Caesar)

              26

              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

              25

              351

              Mr Greentree

              Michael Caesar

              15

              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

              60

              355

              ditto

              Sarah Caesar

              16

              House servant and nurse lent out

              30

              780

              Mr Lambe

              William Caesar

              44

              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

              Not valued No 19

              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

              80

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Augustus Casar

              18

              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

              75

              108

              Mrs Broadway

              Benjamin Casar

              54

              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

              10

              76

              Sergt Carolans Estate

              Celia Casar

              40

              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

              40

              78

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Samuel Casar

              39

              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

              Granted]

              90

              Colin Fox

              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
              >
              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              >
              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              >

              Paul,

              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

              Very best regards,

              John Gardiner

            • John Gardiner
              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes -  We ll give you your freedom, but only after you ve taken out an HP agreement on yourself!  
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
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                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                 
                Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                 
                I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                 
                You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                 
                Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                 
                I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                 
                Very best regards,
                 
                John 
                 
                Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                Contents:
                Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                 
                [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                [See also 52394 A above]

                Contents:
                Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                    
                 
                 

                From: foxhome <colin@...>
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                 

                Best wishes

                 

                Colin

                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                Colin,

                 

                Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                 

                I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                 

                1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                 

                2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                 

                Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                 

                3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                 

                4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                 

                We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                 

                I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                 

                Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                 

                Very best regards,

                 

                John      

                 


                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                 

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                648

                Mrs M Barnes

                Finny Caesar

                60

                Infirm

                1/-

                 

                649

                ditto

                Caroline Caesar

                24

                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                25

                 

                282

                Mrs Harper

                George Caesar

                68

                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                10

                 

                620

                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                John Caesar

                25

                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                80

                 

                622

                ditto

                Flora Caesar

                32

                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                20

                 

                357

                Mr Greentree

                Margaret Caesar

                10

                Not yet employed

                15

                 

                332

                Mrs Lester

                Mary Caesar

                30

                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                35

                 

                785

                Mr Lambe

                Massie Caesar

                (married to Wm Caesar)

                26

                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                25

                 

                351

                Mr Greentree

                Michael Caesar

                15

                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                60

                 

                355

                ditto

                Sarah Caesar

                16

                House servant and nurse lent out

                30

                 

                780

                Mr Lambe

                William Caesar

                44

                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                 

                Not valued No 19

                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                80

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Augustus Casar

                18

                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                75

                 

                108

                Mrs Broadway

                Benjamin Casar

                54

                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                10

                 

                76

                Sergt Carolans Estate

                Celia Casar

                40

                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                40

                 

                78

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Samuel Casar

                39

                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                Granted]

                90

                 

                 

                Colin Fox

                 

                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                 

                 

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                >
                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                >
                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                >

                Paul,

                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                Very best regards,

                John Gardiner

                 


              • judith.armstrong77
                Hi John (or anyone out their) I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 15, 2010
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                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi John (or anyone out their)

                  I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                  All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                  I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                  It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                  Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                  Judith Armstrong
                  Elwood Australia


                  --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                  > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                  > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                  > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                  > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                  > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                  > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                  >
                  > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                  > to be a member of.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No
                  >
                  > Name of Proprietior
                  >
                  > Name of Slave
                  >
                  > Age
                  >
                  > Description
                  >
                  > Value
                  >
                  > Remarks
                  >
                  >
                  > 648
                  >
                  > Mrs M Barnes
                  >
                  > Finny Caesar
                  >
                  > 60
                  >
                  > Infirm
                  >
                  > 1/-
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 649
                  >
                  > ditto
                  >
                  > Caroline Caesar
                  >
                  > 24
                  >
                  > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                  >
                  > 25
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 282
                  >
                  > Mrs Harper
                  >
                  > George Caesar
                  >
                  > 68
                  >
                  > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                  >
                  > 10
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 620
                  >
                  > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                  >
                  > John Caesar
                  >
                  > 25
                  >
                  > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                  >
                  > 80
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 622
                  >
                  > ditto
                  >
                  > Flora Caesar
                  >
                  > 32
                  >
                  > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                  > servant unmarried
                  >
                  > 20
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 357
                  >
                  > Mr Greentree
                  >
                  > Margaret Caesar
                  >
                  > 10
                  >
                  > Not yet employed
                  >
                  > 15
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 332
                  >
                  > Mrs Lester
                  >
                  > Mary Caesar
                  >
                  > 30
                  >
                  > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                  >
                  > 35
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 785
                  >
                  > Mr Lambe
                  >
                  > Massie Caesar
                  >
                  > (married to Wm Caesar)
                  >
                  > 26
                  >
                  > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                  >
                  > 25
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 351
                  >
                  > Mr Greentree
                  >
                  > Michael Caesar
                  >
                  > 15
                  >
                  > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                  >
                  > 60
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 355
                  >
                  > ditto
                  >
                  > Sarah Caesar
                  >
                  > 16
                  >
                  > House servant and nurse lent out
                  >
                  > 30
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 780
                  >
                  > Mr Lambe
                  >
                  > William Caesar
                  >
                  > 44
                  >
                  > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                  > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                  > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                  >
                  > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                  > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                  > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                  > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                  > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                  > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                  > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                  > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                  > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                  > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                  > has been laid to his charge
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Not valued No 19
                  >
                  > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                  > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                  > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                  > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                  > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                  >
                  >
                  > 80
                  >
                  > Mr G and H Alexander
                  >
                  > Augustus Casar
                  >
                  > 18
                  >
                  > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                  >
                  > 75
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 108
                  >
                  > Mrs Broadway
                  >
                  > Benjamin Casar
                  >
                  > 54
                  >
                  > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                  >
                  > 10
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 76
                  >
                  > Sergt Carolans Estate
                  >
                  > Celia Casar
                  >
                  > 40
                  >
                  > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                  >
                  > 40
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 78
                  >
                  > Mr G and H Alexander
                  >
                  > Samuel Casar
                  >
                  > 39
                  >
                  > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                  > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                  >
                  > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                  >
                  > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                  > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                  > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                  > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                  > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                  > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                  > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                  > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                  > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                  >
                  > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                  >
                  > Granted]
                  >
                  > 90
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Colin Fox
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > gardiner.john@...
                  > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                  > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                  > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                  > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                  > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                  > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                  > >
                  > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                  > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Paul,
                  >
                  > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                  > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                  > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                  > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                  > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                  >
                  > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                  > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                  > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                  > was Louisa's father.
                  >
                  > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                  > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                  > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                  > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                  > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                  >
                  > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                  > too.
                  >
                  > Very best regards,
                  >
                  > John Gardiner
                  >
                • John Gardiner
                  Hello, Judith. I m sorry, I ve only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you. Keep perservering.  I m
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello, Judith.
                     
                    I'm sorry, I've only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you.
                     
                    Keep perservering.  I'm sure more information will turn up.
                     
                    Very best regards,
                     
                    John


                    From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 6:07:46
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi John (or anyone out their)

                    I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                    All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                    I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                    It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                    Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                    Judith Armstrong
                    Elwood Australia

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                    > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                    > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                    > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                    > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                    > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                    > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                    >
                    > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                    > to be a member
                    of.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No
                    >
                    > Name of Proprietior
                    >
                    > Name of Slave
                    >
                    > Age
                    >
                    > Description
                    >
                    > Value
                    >
                    > Remarks
                    >
                    >
                    > 648
                    >
                    > Mrs M Barnes
                    >
                    > Finny Caesar
                    >
                    > 60
                    >
                    > Infirm
                    >
                    > 1/-
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 649
                    >
                    > ditto
                    >
                    > Caroline Caesar
                    >
                    > 24
                    >
                    > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                    >
                    > 25
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 282
                    >
                    > Mrs Harper
                    >
                    > George Caesar
                    >
                    > 68
                    >
                    > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                    >
                    > 10
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 620
                    >
                    > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                    >
                    > John Caesar
                    >
                    > 25
                    >
                    >
                    Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                    >
                    > 80
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 622
                    >
                    > ditto
                    >
                    > Flora Caesar
                    >
                    > 32
                    >
                    > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                    > servant unmarried
                    >
                    > 20
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 357
                    >
                    > Mr Greentree
                    >
                    > Margaret Caesar
                    >
                    > 10
                    >
                    > Not yet employed
                    >
                    > 15
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 332
                    >
                    > Mrs Lester
                    >
                    > Mary Caesar
                    >
                    > 30
                    >
                    > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                    >
                    > 35
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 785
                    >
                    > Mr Lambe
                    >
                    > Massie Caesar
                    >
                    > (married to Wm Caesar)
                    >
                    > 26
                    >
                    > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children
                    youngest 3 years
                    >
                    > 25
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 351
                    >
                    > Mr Greentree
                    >
                    > Michael Caesar
                    >
                    > 15
                    >
                    > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                    >
                    > 60
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 355
                    >
                    > ditto
                    >
                    > Sarah Caesar
                    >
                    > 16
                    >
                    > House servant and nurse lent out
                    >
                    > 30
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 780
                    >
                    > Mr Lambe
                    >
                    > William Caesar
                    >
                    > 44
                    >
                    > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                    > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                    > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                    >
                    > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                    > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any
                    on this
                    > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                    > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                    > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                    > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                    > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                    > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                    > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                    > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                    > has been laid to his charge
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Not valued No 19
                    >
                    > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                    > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                    > one half of the sum at which
                    he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                    > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                    > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                    >
                    >
                    > 80
                    >
                    > Mr G and H Alexander
                    >
                    > Augustus Casar
                    >
                    > 18
                    >
                    > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                    >
                    > 75
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 108
                    >
                    > Mrs Broadway
                    >
                    > Benjamin Casar
                    >
                    > 54
                    >
                    > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                    >
                    > 10
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 76
                    >
                    > Sergt Carolans Estate
                    >
                    > Celia Casar
                    >
                    > 40
                    >
                    > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                    >
                    > 40
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 78
                    >
                    > Mr G and H Alexander
                    >
                    > Samuel
                    Casar
                    >
                    > 39
                    >
                    > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                    > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                    >
                    > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                    >
                    > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                    > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                    > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                    > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                    > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                    > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                    > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                    > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                    > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                    >
                    > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                    >
                    > Granted]
                    >
                    > 90
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Colin Fox
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > gardiner.john@...
                    > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    > To:
                    ymailto="mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com">st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                    > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                    > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                    > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                    > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    > >
                    > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's
                    marriage to Timms, birth
                    > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Paul,
                    >
                    > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                    > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                    > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                    > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                    > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                    >
                    > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                    > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                    > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                    > was Louisa's father.
                    >
                    > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                    > island up to 1865 when Samuel
                    Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                    > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                    > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                    > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                    >
                    > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                    > too.
                    >
                    > Very best regards,
                    >
                    > John Gardiner
                    >


                  • Jake
                    Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
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                      Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

                      http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

                       

                      Jake

                       

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      Hi John (or anyone out their)

                      I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                      All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                      I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                      It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                      Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                      Judith Armstrong
                      Elwood Australia

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
                      by
                      > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                      > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
                      be
                      > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
                      future
                      > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                      > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                      > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
                      Connections magazine)
                      >
                      > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
                      society
                      > to be a member of.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > No
                      >
                      > Name of Proprietior
                      >
                      > Name of Slave
                      >
                      > Age
                      >
                      > Description
                      >
                      > Value
                      >
                      > Remarks
                      >
                      >
                      > 648
                      >
                      > Mrs M Barnes
                      >
                      > Finny Caesar
                      >
                      > 60
                      >
                      > Infirm
                      >
                      > 1/-
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 649
                      >
                      > ditto
                      >
                      > Caroline Caesar
                      >
                      > 24
                      >
                      > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                      >
                      > 25
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 282
                      >
                      > Mrs Harper
                      >
                      > George Caesar
                      >
                      > 68
                      >
                      > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                      >
                      > 10
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 620
                      >
                      > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                      >
                      > John Caesar
                      >
                      > 25
                      >
                      > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                      >
                      > 80
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 622
                      >
                      > ditto
                      >
                      > Flora Caesar
                      >
                      > 32
                      >
                      > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                      > servant unmarried
                      >
                      > 20
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 357
                      >
                      > Mr Greentree
                      >
                      > Margaret Caesar
                      >
                      > 10
                      >
                      > Not yet employed
                      >
                      > 15
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 332
                      >
                      > Mrs Lester
                      >
                      > Mary Caesar
                      >
                      > 30
                      >
                      > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                      >
                      > 35
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 785
                      >
                      > Mr Lambe
                      >
                      > Massie Caesar
                      >
                      > (married to Wm Caesar)
                      >
                      > 26
                      >
                      > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                      >
                      > 25
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 351
                      >
                      > Mr Greentree
                      >
                      > Michael Caesar
                      >
                      > 15
                      >
                      > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                      >
                      > 60
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 355
                      >
                      > ditto
                      >
                      > Sarah Caesar
                      >
                      > 16
                      >
                      > House servant and nurse lent out
                      >
                      > 30
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 780
                      >
                      > Mr Lambe
                      >
                      > William Caesar
                      >
                      > 44
                      >
                      > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                      > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                      > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                      >
                      > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
                      years
                      > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
                      this
                      > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                      > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                      > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                      > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                      > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
                      to
                      > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
                      10
                      > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                      > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                      > has been laid to his charge
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Not valued No 19
                      >
                      > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                      > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                      > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                      > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                      > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                      >
                      >
                      > 80
                      >
                      > Mr G and H Alexander
                      >
                      > Augustus Casar
                      >
                      > 18
                      >
                      > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                      >
                      > 75
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 108
                      >
                      > Mrs Broadway
                      >
                      > Benjamin Casar
                      >
                      > 54
                      >
                      > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                      >
                      > 10
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 76
                      >
                      > Sergt Carolans Estate
                      >
                      > Celia Casar
                      >
                      > 40
                      >
                      > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
                      £12/annum
                      >
                      > 40
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 78
                      >
                      > Mr G and H Alexander
                      >
                      > Samuel Casar
                      >
                      > 39
                      >
                      > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
                      class
                      > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                      >
                      > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                      >
                      > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                      > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                      > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
                      to
                      > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                      > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                      > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
                      family.
                      > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
                      character
                      > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                      > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                      >
                      > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                      >
                      > Granted]
                      >
                      > 90
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Colin Fox
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of
                      > gardiner.john@...
                      > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                      > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
                      <pd91223@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
                      Helena
                      > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
                      cert
                      > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
                      maiden
                      > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                      > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                      > >
                      > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                      > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
                      origins.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Paul,
                      >
                      > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
                      on
                      > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                      > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                      > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
                      in
                      > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                      >
                      > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                      > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                      > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                      > was Louisa's father.
                      >
                      > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                      > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                      > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                      > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
                      to
                      > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                      >
                      > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
                      siblings,
                      > too.
                      >
                      > Very best regards,
                      >
                      > John Gardiner
                      >

                    • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                      Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
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                        Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


                        From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi John (or anyone out their)

                        I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                        All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                        I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                        It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                        Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                        Judith Armstrong
                        Elwood Australia

                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                        > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                        > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                        > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                        > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                        > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                        > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                        >
                        > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                        > to be a member of.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > No
                        >
                        > Name of Proprietior
                        >
                        > Name of Slave
                        >
                        > Age
                        >
                        > Description
                        >
                        > Value
                        >
                        > Remarks
                        >
                        >
                        > 648
                        >
                        > Mrs M Barnes
                        >
                        > Finny Caesar
                        >
                        > 60
                        >
                        > Infirm
                        >
                        > 1/-
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 649
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Caroline Caesar
                        >
                        > 24
                        >
                        > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 282
                        >
                        > Mrs Harper
                        >
                        > George Caesar
                        >
                        > 68
                        >
                        > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 620
                        >
                        > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                        >
                        > John Caesar
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
                        good
                        >
                        > 80
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 622
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Flora Caesar
                        >
                        > 32
                        >
                        > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                        > servant unmarried
                        >
                        > 20
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 357
                        >
                        > Mr Greentree
                        >
                        > Margaret Caesar
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        > Not yet employed
                        >
                        > 15
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 332
                        >
                        > Mrs Lester
                        >
                        > Mary Caesar
                        >
                        > 30
                        >
                        > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                        >
                        > 35
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 785
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe
                        >
                        > Massie Caesar
                        >
                        > (married to Wm Caesar)
                        >
                        > 26
                        >
                        > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 351
                        >
                        > Mr Greentree
                        >
                        > Michael Caesar
                        >
                        > 15
                        >
                        > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                        >
                        > 60
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 355
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Sarah Caesar
                        >
                        > 16
                        >
                        > House servant and nurse lent out
                        >
                        > 30
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 780
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe
                        >
                        > William Caesar
                        >
                        > 44
                        >
                        > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                        > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                        > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                        >
                        > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                        > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                        > island is an excellent mower
                        ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                        > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                        > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                        > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                        > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                        > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                        > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                        > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                        > has been laid to his charge
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Not valued No 19
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                        > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                        > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
                        the
                        > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                        > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                        >
                        >
                        > 80
                        >
                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                        >
                        > Augustus Casar
                        >
                        > 18
                        >
                        > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                        >
                        > 75
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 108
                        >
                        > Mrs Broadway
                        >
                        > Benjamin Casar
                        >
                        > 54
                        >
                        > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 76
                        >
                        > Sergt Carolans Estate
                        >
                        > Celia Casar
                        >
                        > 40
                        >
                        > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                        >
                        > 40
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 78
                        >
                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                        >
                        > Samuel Casar
                        >
                        > 39
                        >
                        > Good
                        mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                        > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                        >
                        > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                        >
                        > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                        > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                        > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                        > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                        > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                        > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                        > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                        > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                        > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                        >
                        > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                        >
                        > Granted]
                        >
                        > 90
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Colin Fox
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        > gardiner.john@...
                        > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                        > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                        > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                        > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                        > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                        > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                        > >
                        > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                        > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                        > >
                        >
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > Just saw your
                        post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                        > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                        > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                        > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                        > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                        >
                        > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                        > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                        > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                        > was Louisa's father.
                        >
                        > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                        > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                        > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                        > information is in a Word document and is difficult
                        to post here but happy to
                        > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                        >
                        > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                        > too.
                        >
                        > Very best regards,
                        >
                        > John Gardiner
                        >


                      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                        Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
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                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi John
                          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                           
                          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                           
                          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                           
                          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                           
                          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                           
                          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                           
                          Very best regards,
                           
                          John 
                           
                          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                          Contents:
                          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                           
                          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                          [See also 52394 A above]

                          Contents:
                          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                              
                           
                           

                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                           

                          Best wishes

                           

                          Colin

                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                           

                          Colin,

                           

                          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                           

                          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                           

                          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                           

                          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                           

                          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                           

                          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                           

                          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                           

                          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                           

                          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                           

                          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                           

                          Very best regards,

                           

                          John      

                           


                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                           

                          No

                          Name of Proprietior

                          Name of Slave

                          Age

                          Description

                          Value

                          Remarks

                          648

                          Mrs M Barnes

                          Finny Caesar

                          60

                          Infirm

                          1/-

                           

                          649

                          ditto

                          Caroline Caesar

                          24

                          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                          25

                           

                          282

                          Mrs Harper

                          George Caesar

                          68

                          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                          10

                           

                          620

                          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                          John Caesar

                          25

                          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                          80

                           

                          622

                          ditto

                          Flora Caesar

                          32

                          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                          20

                           

                          357

                          Mr Greentree

                          Margaret Caesar

                          10

                          Not yet employed

                          15

                           

                          332

                          Mrs Lester

                          Mary Caesar

                          30

                          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                          35

                           

                          785

                          Mr Lambe

                          Massie Caesar

                          (married to Wm Caesar)

                          26

                          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                          25

                           

                          351

                          Mr Greentree

                          Michael Caesar

                          15

                          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                          60

                           

                          355

                          ditto

                          Sarah Caesar

                          16

                          House servant and nurse lent out

                          30

                           

                          780

                          Mr Lambe

                          William Caesar

                          44

                          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                           

                          Not valued No 19

                          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                          80

                          Mr G and H Alexander

                          Augustus Casar

                          18

                          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                          75

                           

                          108

                          Mrs Broadway

                          Benjamin Casar

                          54

                          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                          10

                           

                          76

                          Sergt Carolans Estate

                          Celia Casar

                          40

                          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                          40

                           

                          78

                          Mr G and H Alexander

                          Samuel Casar

                          39

                          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                          Granted]

                          90

                           

                           

                          Colin Fox

                           

                          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                           

                           

                           

                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                           

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                          >
                          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                          >

                          Paul,

                          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                          Very best regards,

                          John Gardiner

                           



                        • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                          Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
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                            Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


                            From: foxhome <colin@...>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                            Regards

                             

                            Colin

                             

                             

                            No

                            Name of Proprietior

                            Name of Slave

                            Age

                            Description

                            Value

                            Remarks

                            333

                             

                            Mrs Lester

                            Elizabeth Scott

                            12

                            Useful handy girl

                            20

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                            Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            

                            Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                            Regards,

                            Alan

                             

                             

                            ----- Original Message -----

                            Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                             


                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                             

                            No

                            Name of Proprietior

                            Name of Slave

                            Age

                            Description

                            Value

                            Remarks

                            648

                            Mrs M Barnes

                            Finny Caesar

                            60

                            Infirm

                            1/-

                             

                            649

                            ditto

                            Caroline Caesar

                            24

                            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                            25

                             

                            282

                            Mrs Harper

                            George Caesar

                            68

                            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                            10

                             

                            620

                            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                            John Caesar

                            25

                            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                            80

                             

                            622

                            ditto

                            Flora Caesar

                            32

                            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                            20

                             

                            357

                            Mr Greentree

                            Margaret Caesar

                            10

                            Not yet employed

                            15

                             

                            332

                            Mrs Lester

                            Mary Caesar

                            30

                            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                            35

                             

                            785

                            Mr Lambe

                            Massie Caesar

                            (married to Wm Caesar)

                            26

                            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                            25

                             

                            351

                            Mr Greentree

                            Michael Caesar

                            15

                            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                            60

                             

                            355

                            ditto

                            Sarah Caesar

                            16

                            House servant and nurse lent out

                            30

                             

                            780

                            Mr Lambe

                            William Caesar

                            44

                            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                             

                            Not valued No 19

                            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                            80

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Augustus Casar

                            18

                            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                            75

                             

                            108

                            Mrs Broadway

                            Benjamin Casar

                            54

                            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                            10

                             

                            76

                            Sergt Carolans Estate

                            Celia Casar

                            40

                            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                            40

                             

                            78

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Samuel Casar

                            39

                            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                            Granted]

                            90

                             

                             

                            Colin Fox

                             

                            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                             

                             

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                            >
                            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                            >

                            Paul,

                            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                            Very best regards,

                            John Gardiner

                             


                          • John Gardiner
                            Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                              Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                               
                              It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                              of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                              These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi John
                              Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                               
                              Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                               
                              I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                               
                              You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                               
                              Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                               
                              I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                               
                              Very best regards,
                               
                              John 
                               
                              Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                              [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                              Contents:
                              Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                               
                              [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                              Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                              [See also 52394 A above]

                              Contents:
                              Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                  
                               
                               

                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                               

                              Best wishes

                               

                              Colin

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              Colin,

                               

                              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                               

                              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                               

                              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                               

                              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                               

                              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                               

                              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                               

                              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                               

                              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                               

                              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                               

                              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                               

                              Very best regards,

                               

                              John      

                               


                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                               

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              648

                              Mrs M Barnes

                              Finny Caesar

                              60

                              Infirm

                              1/-

                               

                              649

                              ditto

                              Caroline Caesar

                              24

                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                              25

                               

                              282

                              Mrs Harper

                              George Caesar

                              68

                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                              10

                               

                              620

                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                              John Caesar

                              25

                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                              80

                               

                              622

                              ditto

                              Flora Caesar

                              32

                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                              20

                               

                              357

                              Mr Greentree

                              Margaret Caesar

                              10

                              Not yet employed

                              15

                               

                              332

                              Mrs Lester

                              Mary Caesar

                              30

                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                              35

                               

                              785

                              Mr Lambe

                              Massie Caesar

                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                              26

                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                              25

                               

                              351

                              Mr Greentree

                              Michael Caesar

                              15

                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                              60

                               

                              355

                              ditto

                              Sarah Caesar

                              16

                              House servant and nurse lent out

                              30

                               

                              780

                              Mr Lambe

                              William Caesar

                              44

                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                               

                              Not valued No 19

                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                              80

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Augustus Casar

                              18

                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                              75

                               

                              108

                              Mrs Broadway

                              Benjamin Casar

                              54

                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                              10

                               

                              76

                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                              Celia Casar

                              40

                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                              40

                               

                              78

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Samuel Casar

                              39

                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                              Granted]

                              90

                               

                               

                              Colin Fox

                               

                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                               

                               

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                              >
                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                              >

                              Paul,

                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                              Very best regards,

                              John Gardiner

                               




                            • foxhome
                              Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                                Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                                 

                                Colin

                                 

                                No

                                Name of Proprietior

                                Name of Slave

                                Age

                                Description

                                Value £

                                Remarks

                                65

                                Capt Broadway

                                Jacob George

                                43

                                Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                                65

                                 

                                179

                                Mr Darling

                                James George

                                9

                                A house boy

                                25

                                 

                                180

                                Mr Darling

                                Peggy George

                                22

                                House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                                30

                                 

                                181

                                Mr Darling

                                John George

                                20

                                A good cook and very useful servant

                                90

                                 

                                183

                                Mr Darling

                                Jacob George

                                17

                                A good waiting servant

                                70

                                 

                                208

                                Mr Dring

                                Sarah George

                                22

                                Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                                 

                                Not valued No 5

                                246

                                Mr Janisch

                                Louisa George

                                11

                                Useful little girl

                                20

                                 

                                273

                                Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                                May George

                                33

                                A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                                105

                                 

                                277

                                Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                John George

                                37

                                First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                                105

                                 

                                279

                                Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                Frances George

                                10

                                Useful farm boy

                                30

                                 

                                281

                                Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                Nanny George

                                36

                                Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                                20

                                 

                                378

                                Mr Mulhall

                                Lucy George

                                28

                                Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                                30

                                 

                                379

                                Mr Mulhall

                                Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                                13

                                A very useful house girl

                                30

                                 

                                428

                                Major D K Pritchard

                                Charles George

                                34

                                A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                                105

                                 

                                429

                                Mr H T Seale

                                Jane George

                                43

                                Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                                30

                                 

                                433

                                Dr Lorimer

                                Martha George

                                16

                                Useful house servant good character

                                30

                                 

                                483

                                Miss Mason

                                Susan George

                                24

                                Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                                20

                                 

                                498

                                Mr B Solomon

                                Benj George

                                10

                                Useful houseboy

                                35

                                 

                                501

                                Mr S Solomon

                                Dolly George

                                17

                                Needlewoman and nurse

                                25

                                 

                                519

                                Mr William Seale jun.

                                Nancy George

                                26

                                Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                                25

                                 

                                525

                                Major Seale

                                Sally George

                                22

                                Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                                40

                                 

                                534

                                Major Seale

                                Ruth George

                                18

                                A good house servant

                                30

                                 

                                535

                                Major Seale

                                Martha George

                                13

                                A good house servant

                                25

                                 

                                541

                                Major Seale

                                James George

                                32

                                Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                                 

                                Not valued No 11

                                542

                                Major Seale

                                Benj George

                                18

                                Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                                 

                                Not valued no 12

                                543

                                Major Seale

                                Harry George

                                21

                                A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                                110

                                 

                                544

                                Major Seale

                                Cornelius George

                                13

                              • Shirley Morgan
                                Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                                  Hi All

                                  I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                  (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                  assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                  not anything else.

                                  He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                  writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                  he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                  Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                  I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                  so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                  Many thanks in advance

                                  Shirley Morgan



                                  Shirley





                                  Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                                • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                  Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
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                                    Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                     
                                    It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                    of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                    These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                    From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi John
                                    Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                     
                                    Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                     
                                    I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                     
                                    You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                     
                                    Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                     
                                    I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                     
                                    Very best regards,
                                     
                                    John 
                                     
                                    Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                    [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                    Contents:
                                    Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                     
                                    [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                    Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                    [See also 52394 A above]

                                    Contents:
                                    Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                        
                                     
                                     

                                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                    There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                    There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                     

                                    Best wishes

                                     

                                    Colin

                                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                    Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                     

                                    Colin,

                                     

                                    Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                     

                                    I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                     

                                    1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                     

                                    2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                     

                                    Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                     

                                    3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                     

                                    4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                     

                                    We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                     

                                    I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                     

                                    Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                     

                                    Very best regards,

                                     

                                    John      

                                     


                                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                     

                                    No

                                    Name of Proprietior

                                    Name of Slave

                                    Age

                                    Description

                                    Value

                                    Remarks

                                    648

                                    Mrs M Barnes

                                    Finny Caesar

                                    60

                                    Infirm

                                    1/-

                                     

                                    649

                                    ditto

                                    Caroline Caesar

                                    24

                                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                    25

                                     

                                    282

                                    Mrs Harper

                                    George Caesar

                                    68

                                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                    10

                                     

                                    620

                                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                    John Caesar

                                    25

                                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                    80

                                     

                                    622

                                    ditto

                                    Flora Caesar

                                    32

                                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                    20

                                     

                                    357

                                    Mr Greentree

                                    Margaret Caesar

                                    10

                                    Not yet employed

                                    15

                                     

                                    332

                                    Mrs Lester

                                    Mary Caesar

                                    30

                                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                    35

                                     

                                    785

                                    Mr Lambe

                                    Massie Caesar

                                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                                    26

                                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                    25

                                     

                                    351

                                    Mr Greentree

                                    Michael Caesar

                                    15

                                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                    60

                                     

                                    355

                                    ditto

                                    Sarah Caesar

                                    16

                                    House servant and nurse lent out

                                    30

                                     

                                    780

                                    Mr Lambe

                                    William Caesar

                                    44

                                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                     

                                    Not valued No 19

                                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                    80

                                    Mr G and H Alexander

                                    Augustus Casar

                                    18

                                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                    75

                                     

                                    108

                                    Mrs Broadway

                                    Benjamin Casar

                                    54

                                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                    10

                                     

                                    76

                                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                                    Celia Casar

                                    40

                                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                    40

                                     

                                    78

                                    Mr G and H Alexander

                                    Samuel Casar

                                    39

                                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                    Granted]

                                    90

                                     

                                     

                                    Colin Fox

                                     

                                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                     

                                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                    >
                                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                    >

                                    Paul,

                                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                    Very best regards,

                                    John Gardiner

                                     





                                  • John Gardiner
                                    Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
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                                      Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                      From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                       
                                      It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                      of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                      These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                      From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi John
                                      Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                       
                                      Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                       
                                      I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                       
                                      You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                       
                                      Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                       
                                      I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                       
                                      Very best regards,
                                       
                                      John 
                                       
                                      Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                      [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                      Contents:
                                      Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                       
                                      [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                      Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                      [See also 52394 A above]

                                      Contents:
                                      Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                          
                                       
                                       

                                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                      There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                      There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                       

                                      Best wishes

                                       

                                      Colin

                                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                      Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                       

                                      Colin,

                                       

                                      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                       

                                      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                       

                                      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                       

                                      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                       

                                      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                       

                                      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                       

                                      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                       

                                      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                       

                                      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                       

                                      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                       

                                      Very best regards,

                                       

                                      John      

                                       


                                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                       

                                      No

                                      Name of Proprietior

                                      Name of Slave

                                      Age

                                      Description

                                      Value

                                      Remarks

                                      648

                                      Mrs M Barnes

                                      Finny Caesar

                                      60

                                      Infirm

                                      1/-

                                       

                                      649

                                      ditto

                                      Caroline Caesar

                                      24

                                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                      25

                                       

                                      282

                                      Mrs Harper

                                      George Caesar

                                      68

                                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                      10

                                       

                                      620

                                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                      John Caesar

                                      25

                                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                      80

                                       

                                      622

                                      ditto

                                      Flora Caesar

                                      32

                                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                      20

                                       

                                      357

                                      Mr Greentree

                                      Margaret Caesar

                                      10

                                      Not yet employed

                                      15

                                       

                                      332

                                      Mrs Lester

                                      Mary Caesar

                                      30

                                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                      35

                                       

                                      785

                                      Mr Lambe

                                      Massie Caesar

                                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                                      26

                                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                      25

                                       

                                      351

                                      Mr Greentree

                                      Michael Caesar

                                      15

                                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                      60

                                       

                                      355

                                      ditto

                                      Sarah Caesar

                                      16

                                      House servant and nurse lent out

                                      30

                                       

                                      780

                                      Mr Lambe

                                      William Caesar

                                      44

                                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                       

                                      Not valued No 19

                                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                      80

                                      Mr G and H Alexander

                                      Augustus Casar

                                      18

                                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                      75

                                       

                                      108

                                      Mrs Broadway

                                      Benjamin Casar

                                      54

                                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                      10

                                       

                                      76

                                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                                      Celia Casar

                                      40

                                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                      40

                                       

                                      78

                                      Mr G and H Alexander

                                      Samuel Casar

                                      39

                                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                      Granted]

                                      90

                                       

                                       

                                      Colin Fox

                                       

                                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                       

                                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                      >
                                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                      >

                                      Paul,

                                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                      Very best regards,

                                      John Gardiner

                                       






                                    • Arabella George
                                      Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
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                                        Hi Nancy-Jo
                                        I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                                        Regards 

                                        Bella George

                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                        On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                         
                                        It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                        of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                        These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi John
                                        Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                         
                                        Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                         
                                        I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                         
                                        You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                         
                                        Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                         
                                        I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                         
                                        Very best regards,
                                         
                                        John 
                                         
                                        Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                        [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                        Contents:
                                        Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                         
                                        [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                        Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                        [See also 52394 A above]

                                        Contents:
                                        Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                            
                                         
                                         

                                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                        There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                        There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                         

                                        Best wishes

                                         

                                        Colin

                                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                        Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                         

                                        Colin,

                                         

                                        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                         

                                        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                         

                                        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                         

                                        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                         

                                        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                         

                                        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                         

                                        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                         

                                        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                         

                                        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                         

                                        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                         

                                        Very best regards,

                                         

                                        John      

                                         


                                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                         

                                        No

                                        Name of Proprietior

                                        Name of Slave

                                        Age

                                        Description

                                        Value

                                        Remarks

                                        648

                                        Mrs M Barnes

                                        Finny Caesar

                                        60

                                        Infirm

                                        1/-

                                         

                                        649

                                        ditto

                                        Caroline Caesar

                                        24

                                        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                        25

                                         

                                        282

                                        Mrs Harper

                                        George Caesar

                                        68

                                        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                        10

                                         

                                        620

                                        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                        John Caesar

                                        25

                                        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                        80

                                         

                                        622

                                        ditto

                                        Flora Caesar

                                        32

                                        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                        20

                                         

                                        357

                                        Mr Greentree

                                        Margaret Caesar

                                        10

                                        Not yet employed

                                        15

                                         

                                        332

                                        Mrs Lester

                                        Mary Caesar

                                        30

                                        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                        35

                                         

                                        785

                                        Mr Lambe

                                        Massie Caesar

                                        (married to Wm Caesar)

                                        26

                                        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                        25

                                         

                                        351

                                        Mr Greentree

                                        Michael Caesar

                                        15

                                        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                        60

                                         

                                        355

                                        ditto

                                        Sarah Caesar

                                        16

                                        House servant and nurse lent out

                                        30

                                         

                                        780

                                        Mr Lambe

                                        William Caesar

                                        44

                                        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                         

                                        Not valued No 19

                                        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                        80

                                        Mr G and H Alexander

                                        Augustus Casar

                                        18

                                        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                        75

                                         

                                        108

                                        Mrs Broadway

                                        Benjamin Casar

                                        54

                                        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                        10

                                         

                                        76

                                        Sergt Carolans Estate

                                        Celia Casar

                                        40

                                        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                        40

                                         

                                        78

                                        Mr G and H Alexander

                                        Samuel Casar

                                        39

                                        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                        Granted]

                                        90

                                         

                                         

                                        Colin Fox

                                         

                                        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                         

                                        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                        >
                                        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                        >

                                        Paul,

                                        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                        Very best regards,

                                        John Gardiner

                                         






                                      • Shirley Morgan
                                        I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
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                                          I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                          (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                                           
                                          Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                                          Shirley


                                           

                                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: shirleymorgan967@...
                                          Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                                           

                                           
                                          Hi All

                                          I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                          (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                          assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                          not anything else.

                                          He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                          writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                          he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                          Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                          I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                          so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                          Many thanks in advance

                                          Shirley Morgan



                                          Shirley





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