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Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • A. Russ
    Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott? Regards, Alan ... From: Nancy-Jo Nunez To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      
      Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?
      Regards,
      Alan
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

       

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value

      Remarks

      648

      Mrs M Barnes

      Finny Caesar

      60

      Infirm

      1/-

       

      649

      ditto

      Caroline Caesar

      24

      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

      25

       

      282

      Mrs Harper

      George Caesar

      68

      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

      10

       

      620

      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

      John Caesar

      25

      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

      80

       

      622

      ditto

      Flora Caesar

      32

      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

      20

       

      357

      Mr Greentree

      Margaret Caesar

      10

      Not yet employed

      15

       

      332

      Mrs Lester

      Mary Caesar

      30

      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

      35

       

      785

      Mr Lambe

      Massie Caesar

      (married to Wm Caesar)

      26

      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

      25

       

      351

      Mr Greentree

      Michael Caesar

      15

      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

      60

       

      355

      ditto

      Sarah Caesar

      16

      House servant and nurse lent out

      30

       

      780

      Mr Lambe

      William Caesar

      44

      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

       

      Not valued No 19

      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

      80

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Augustus Casar

      18

      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

      75

       

      108

      Mrs Broadway

      Benjamin Casar

      54

      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

      10

       

      76

      Sergt Carolans Estate

      Celia Casar

      40

      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

      40

       

      78

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Samuel Casar

      39

      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

      Granted]

      90

       

       

      Colin Fox

       

      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

       

       

       

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
      >
      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
      >
      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
      >

      Paul,

      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

      Very best regards,

      John Gardiner


    • John Gardiner
      Colin, Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
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        Colin,
         
        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 
         
        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  
         
        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.
         
        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  
         
        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  
         
        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 
         
        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.
         
        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 
         
        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.
         
        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.
         
        Very best regards,
         
        John      


        From: foxhome <colin@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

         

        No

        Name of Proprietior

        Name of Slave

        Age

        Description

        Value

        Remarks

        648

        Mrs M Barnes

        Finny Caesar

        60

        Infirm

        1/-

         

        649

        ditto

        Caroline Caesar

        24

        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

        25

         

        282

        Mrs Harper

        George Caesar

        68

        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

        10

         

        620

        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

        John Caesar

        25

        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

        80

         

        622

        ditto

        Flora Caesar

        32

        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

        20

         

        357

        Mr Greentree

        Margaret Caesar

        10

        Not yet employed

        15

         

        332

        Mrs Lester

        Mary Caesar

        30

        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

        35

         

        785

        Mr Lambe

        Massie Caesar

        (married to Wm Caesar)

        26

        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

        25

         

        351

        Mr Greentree

        Michael Caesar

        15

        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

        60

         

        355

        ditto

        Sarah Caesar

        16

        House servant and nurse lent out

        30

         

        780

        Mr Lambe

        William Caesar

        44

        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

         

        Not valued No 19

        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

        80

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Augustus Casar

        18

        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

        75

         

        108

        Mrs Broadway

        Benjamin Casar

        54

        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

        10

         

        76

        Sergt Carolans Estate

        Celia Casar

        40

        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

        40

         

        78

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Samuel Casar

        39

        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

        Granted]

        90

         

         

        Colin Fox

         

        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

         

         

         

        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

         

        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
        >
        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        >
        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        >

        Paul,

        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

        Very best regards,

        John Gardiner


      • foxhome
        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264. In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
        • 0 Attachment

          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

           

          Best wishes

           

          Colin

          From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          Colin,

           

          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 

           

          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

           

          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

           

          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

           

          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

           

          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

           

          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

           

          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

           

          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

           

          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

           

          Very best regards,

           

          John      

           


          From: foxhome <colin@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          648

          Mrs M Barnes

          Finny Caesar

          60

          Infirm

          1/-

           

          649

          ditto

          Caroline Caesar

          24

          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

          25

           

          282

          Mrs Harper

          George Caesar

          68

          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

          10

           

          620

          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

          John Caesar

          25

          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

          80

           

          622

          ditto

          Flora Caesar

          32

          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

          20

           

          357

          Mr Greentree

          Margaret Caesar

          10

          Not yet employed

          15

           

          332

          Mrs Lester

          Mary Caesar

          30

          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

          35

           

          785

          Mr Lambe

          Massie Caesar

          (married to Wm Caesar)

          26

          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

          25

           

          351

          Mr Greentree

          Michael Caesar

          15

          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

          60

           

          355

          ditto

          Sarah Caesar

          16

          House servant and nurse lent out

          30

           

          780

          Mr Lambe

          William Caesar

          44

          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

           

          Not valued No 19

          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

          80

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Augustus Casar

          18

          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

          75

           

          108

          Mrs Broadway

          Benjamin Casar

          54

          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

          10

           

          76

          Sergt Carolans Estate

          Celia Casar

          40

          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

          40

           

          78

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Samuel Casar

          39

          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

          Granted]

          90

           

           

          Colin Fox

           

          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

           

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:

          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
          from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
          details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner

           

        • foxhome
          Alan, Not much but the name does appear. Regards Colin No Name of Proprietior Name of Slave Age Description Value Remarks 333 Mrs Lester Elizabeth Scott 12
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
          • 0 Attachment

            Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

            Regards

             

            Colin

             

             

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            333

             

            Mrs Lester

            Elizabeth Scott

            12

            Useful handy girl

            20

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
            Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            

            Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

            Regards,

            Alan

             

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

             


            From: foxhome <colin@...>
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

             

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            648

            Mrs M Barnes

            Finny Caesar

            60

            Infirm

            1/-

             

            649

            ditto

            Caroline Caesar

            24

            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

            25

             

            282

            Mrs Harper

            George Caesar

            68

            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

            10

             

            620

            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

            John Caesar

            25

            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

            80

             

            622

            ditto

            Flora Caesar

            32

            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

            20

             

            357

            Mr Greentree

            Margaret Caesar

            10

            Not yet employed

            15

             

            332

            Mrs Lester

            Mary Caesar

            30

            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

            35

             

            785

            Mr Lambe

            Massie Caesar

            (married to Wm Caesar)

            26

            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

            25

             

            351

            Mr Greentree

            Michael Caesar

            15

            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

            60

             

            355

            ditto

            Sarah Caesar

            16

            House servant and nurse lent out

            30

             

            780

            Mr Lambe

            William Caesar

            44

            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

             

            Not valued No 19

            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

            80

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Augustus Casar

            18

            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

            75

             

            108

            Mrs Broadway

            Benjamin Casar

            54

            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

            10

             

            76

            Sergt Carolans Estate

            Celia Casar

            40

            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

            40

             

            78

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Samuel Casar

            39

            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

            Granted]

            90

             

             

            Colin Fox

             

            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

             

             

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
            >
            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            >
            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            >

            Paul,

            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

            Very best regards,

            John Gardiner

             

          • A. Russ
            Thanks, Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920. ... From: foxhome To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              
              Thanks,
              Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: foxhome
              Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

              Regards

              Colin

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              333

              Mrs Lester

              Elizabeth Scott

              12

              Useful handy girl

              20

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
              Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              

              Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

              Regards,

              Alan

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              648

              Mrs M Barnes

              Finny Caesar

              60

              Infirm

              1/-

              649

              ditto

              Caroline Caesar

              24

              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

              25

              282

              Mrs Harper

              George Caesar

              68

              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

              10

              620

              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

              John Caesar

              25

              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

              80

              622

              ditto

              Flora Caesar

              32

              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

              20

              357

              Mr Greentree

              Margaret Caesar

              10

              Not yet employed

              15

              332

              Mrs Lester

              Mary Caesar

              30

              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

              35

              785

              Mr Lambe

              Massie Caesar

              (married to Wm Caesar)

              26

              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

              25

              351

              Mr Greentree

              Michael Caesar

              15

              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

              60

              355

              ditto

              Sarah Caesar

              16

              House servant and nurse lent out

              30

              780

              Mr Lambe

              William Caesar

              44

              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

              Not valued No 19

              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

              80

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Augustus Casar

              18

              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

              75

              108

              Mrs Broadway

              Benjamin Casar

              54

              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

              10

              76

              Sergt Carolans Estate

              Celia Casar

              40

              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

              40

              78

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Samuel Casar

              39

              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

              Granted]

              90

              Colin Fox

              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
              >
              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              >
              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              >

              Paul,

              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

              Very best regards,

              John Gardiner

            • foxhome
              Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person. Colin From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
              • 0 Attachment

                Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person.

                 

                Colin

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                Sent: 14 June 2010 10:38
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                

                Thanks,

                Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.

                 

                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                From: foxhome

                Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM

                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                Regards

                Colin

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                333

                Mrs Lester

                Elizabeth Scott

                12

                Useful handy girl

                20

                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                

                Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                Regards,

                Alan

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                From: foxhome <colin@...>
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                648

                Mrs M Barnes

                Finny Caesar

                60

                Infirm

                1/-

                649

                ditto

                Caroline Caesar

                24

                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                25

                282

                Mrs Harper

                George Caesar

                68

                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                10

                620

                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                John Caesar

                25

                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                80

                622

                ditto

                Flora Caesar

                32

                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                20

                357

                Mr Greentree

                Margaret Caesar

                10

                Not yet employed

                15

                332

                Mrs Lester

                Mary Caesar

                30

                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                35

                785

                Mr Lambe

                Massie Caesar

                (married to Wm Caesar)

                26

                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                25

                351

                Mr Greentree

                Michael Caesar

                15

                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                60

                355

                ditto

                Sarah Caesar

                16

                House servant and nurse lent out

                30

                780

                Mr Lambe

                William Caesar

                44

                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                Not valued No 19

                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                80

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Augustus Casar

                18

                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                75

                108

                Mrs Broadway

                Benjamin Casar

                54

                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                10

                76

                Sergt Carolans Estate

                Celia Casar

                40

                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                40

                78

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Samuel Casar

                39

                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                Granted]

                90

                Colin Fox

                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                >
                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                >
                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                >

                Paul,

                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                Very best regards,

                John Gardiner

              • John Gardiner
                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes -  We ll give you your freedom, but only after you ve taken out an HP agreement on yourself!  
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                   
                  Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                   
                  I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                   
                  You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                   
                  Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                   
                  I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                   
                  Very best regards,
                   
                  John 
                   
                  Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                  [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                  Contents:
                  Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                   
                  [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                  Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                  [See also 52394 A above]

                  Contents:
                  Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                      
                   
                   

                  From: foxhome <colin@...>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                  There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                  There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                   

                  Best wishes

                   

                  Colin

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                  Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                   

                  Colin,

                   

                  Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                   

                  I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                   

                  1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                   

                  2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                   

                  Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                   

                  3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                   

                  4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                   

                  We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                   

                  I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                   

                  Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                   

                  Very best regards,

                   

                  John      

                   


                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                   

                  No

                  Name of Proprietior

                  Name of Slave

                  Age

                  Description

                  Value

                  Remarks

                  648

                  Mrs M Barnes

                  Finny Caesar

                  60

                  Infirm

                  1/-

                   

                  649

                  ditto

                  Caroline Caesar

                  24

                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                  25

                   

                  282

                  Mrs Harper

                  George Caesar

                  68

                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                  10

                   

                  620

                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                  John Caesar

                  25

                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                  80

                   

                  622

                  ditto

                  Flora Caesar

                  32

                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                  20

                   

                  357

                  Mr Greentree

                  Margaret Caesar

                  10

                  Not yet employed

                  15

                   

                  332

                  Mrs Lester

                  Mary Caesar

                  30

                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                  35

                   

                  785

                  Mr Lambe

                  Massie Caesar

                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                  26

                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                  25

                   

                  351

                  Mr Greentree

                  Michael Caesar

                  15

                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                  60

                   

                  355

                  ditto

                  Sarah Caesar

                  16

                  House servant and nurse lent out

                  30

                   

                  780

                  Mr Lambe

                  William Caesar

                  44

                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                   

                  Not valued No 19

                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                  80

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Augustus Casar

                  18

                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                  75

                   

                  108

                  Mrs Broadway

                  Benjamin Casar

                  54

                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                  10

                   

                  76

                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                  Celia Casar

                  40

                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                  40

                   

                  78

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Samuel Casar

                  39

                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                  Granted]

                  90

                   

                   

                  Colin Fox

                   

                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                   

                   

                   

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                   

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                  >
                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                  >

                  Paul,

                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                  Very best regards,

                  John Gardiner

                   


                • judith.armstrong77
                  Hi John (or anyone out their) I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 15, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi John (or anyone out their)

                    I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                    All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                    I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                    It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                    Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                    Judith Armstrong
                    Elwood Australia


                    --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                    > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                    > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                    > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                    > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                    > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                    > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                    >
                    > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                    > to be a member of.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No
                    >
                    > Name of Proprietior
                    >
                    > Name of Slave
                    >
                    > Age
                    >
                    > Description
                    >
                    > Value
                    >
                    > Remarks
                    >
                    >
                    > 648
                    >
                    > Mrs M Barnes
                    >
                    > Finny Caesar
                    >
                    > 60
                    >
                    > Infirm
                    >
                    > 1/-
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 649
                    >
                    > ditto
                    >
                    > Caroline Caesar
                    >
                    > 24
                    >
                    > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                    >
                    > 25
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 282
                    >
                    > Mrs Harper
                    >
                    > George Caesar
                    >
                    > 68
                    >
                    > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                    >
                    > 10
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 620
                    >
                    > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                    >
                    > John Caesar
                    >
                    > 25
                    >
                    > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                    >
                    > 80
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 622
                    >
                    > ditto
                    >
                    > Flora Caesar
                    >
                    > 32
                    >
                    > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                    > servant unmarried
                    >
                    > 20
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 357
                    >
                    > Mr Greentree
                    >
                    > Margaret Caesar
                    >
                    > 10
                    >
                    > Not yet employed
                    >
                    > 15
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 332
                    >
                    > Mrs Lester
                    >
                    > Mary Caesar
                    >
                    > 30
                    >
                    > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                    >
                    > 35
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 785
                    >
                    > Mr Lambe
                    >
                    > Massie Caesar
                    >
                    > (married to Wm Caesar)
                    >
                    > 26
                    >
                    > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                    >
                    > 25
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 351
                    >
                    > Mr Greentree
                    >
                    > Michael Caesar
                    >
                    > 15
                    >
                    > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                    >
                    > 60
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 355
                    >
                    > ditto
                    >
                    > Sarah Caesar
                    >
                    > 16
                    >
                    > House servant and nurse lent out
                    >
                    > 30
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 780
                    >
                    > Mr Lambe
                    >
                    > William Caesar
                    >
                    > 44
                    >
                    > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                    > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                    > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                    >
                    > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                    > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                    > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                    > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                    > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                    > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                    > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                    > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                    > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                    > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                    > has been laid to his charge
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Not valued No 19
                    >
                    > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                    > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                    > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                    > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                    > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                    >
                    >
                    > 80
                    >
                    > Mr G and H Alexander
                    >
                    > Augustus Casar
                    >
                    > 18
                    >
                    > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                    >
                    > 75
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 108
                    >
                    > Mrs Broadway
                    >
                    > Benjamin Casar
                    >
                    > 54
                    >
                    > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                    >
                    > 10
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 76
                    >
                    > Sergt Carolans Estate
                    >
                    > Celia Casar
                    >
                    > 40
                    >
                    > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                    >
                    > 40
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 78
                    >
                    > Mr G and H Alexander
                    >
                    > Samuel Casar
                    >
                    > 39
                    >
                    > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                    > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                    >
                    > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                    >
                    > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                    > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                    > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                    > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                    > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                    > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                    > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                    > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                    > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                    >
                    > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                    >
                    > Granted]
                    >
                    > 90
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Colin Fox
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > gardiner.john@...
                    > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                    > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                    > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                    > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                    > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    > >
                    > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                    > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Paul,
                    >
                    > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                    > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                    > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                    > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                    > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                    >
                    > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                    > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                    > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                    > was Louisa's father.
                    >
                    > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                    > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                    > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                    > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                    > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                    >
                    > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                    > too.
                    >
                    > Very best regards,
                    >
                    > John Gardiner
                    >
                  • John Gardiner
                    Hello, Judith. I m sorry, I ve only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you. Keep perservering.  I m
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello, Judith.
                       
                      I'm sorry, I've only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you.
                       
                      Keep perservering.  I'm sure more information will turn up.
                       
                      Very best regards,
                       
                      John


                      From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 6:07:46
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi John (or anyone out their)

                      I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                      All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                      I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                      It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                      Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                      Judith Armstrong
                      Elwood Australia

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                      > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                      > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                      > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                      > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                      > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                      > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                      >
                      > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                      > to be a member
                      of.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > No
                      >
                      > Name of Proprietior
                      >
                      > Name of Slave
                      >
                      > Age
                      >
                      > Description
                      >
                      > Value
                      >
                      > Remarks
                      >
                      >
                      > 648
                      >
                      > Mrs M Barnes
                      >
                      > Finny Caesar
                      >
                      > 60
                      >
                      > Infirm
                      >
                      > 1/-
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 649
                      >
                      > ditto
                      >
                      > Caroline Caesar
                      >
                      > 24
                      >
                      > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                      >
                      > 25
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 282
                      >
                      > Mrs Harper
                      >
                      > George Caesar
                      >
                      > 68
                      >
                      > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                      >
                      > 10
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 620
                      >
                      > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                      >
                      > John Caesar
                      >
                      > 25
                      >
                      >
                      Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                      >
                      > 80
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 622
                      >
                      > ditto
                      >
                      > Flora Caesar
                      >
                      > 32
                      >
                      > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                      > servant unmarried
                      >
                      > 20
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 357
                      >
                      > Mr Greentree
                      >
                      > Margaret Caesar
                      >
                      > 10
                      >
                      > Not yet employed
                      >
                      > 15
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 332
                      >
                      > Mrs Lester
                      >
                      > Mary Caesar
                      >
                      > 30
                      >
                      > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                      >
                      > 35
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 785
                      >
                      > Mr Lambe
                      >
                      > Massie Caesar
                      >
                      > (married to Wm Caesar)
                      >
                      > 26
                      >
                      > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children
                      youngest 3 years
                      >
                      > 25
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 351
                      >
                      > Mr Greentree
                      >
                      > Michael Caesar
                      >
                      > 15
                      >
                      > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                      >
                      > 60
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 355
                      >
                      > ditto
                      >
                      > Sarah Caesar
                      >
                      > 16
                      >
                      > House servant and nurse lent out
                      >
                      > 30
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 780
                      >
                      > Mr Lambe
                      >
                      > William Caesar
                      >
                      > 44
                      >
                      > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                      > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                      > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                      >
                      > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                      > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any
                      on this
                      > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                      > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                      > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                      > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                      > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                      > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                      > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                      > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                      > has been laid to his charge
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Not valued No 19
                      >
                      > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                      > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                      > one half of the sum at which
                      he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                      > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                      > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                      >
                      >
                      > 80
                      >
                      > Mr G and H Alexander
                      >
                      > Augustus Casar
                      >
                      > 18
                      >
                      > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                      >
                      > 75
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 108
                      >
                      > Mrs Broadway
                      >
                      > Benjamin Casar
                      >
                      > 54
                      >
                      > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                      >
                      > 10
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 76
                      >
                      > Sergt Carolans Estate
                      >
                      > Celia Casar
                      >
                      > 40
                      >
                      > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                      >
                      > 40
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 78
                      >
                      > Mr G and H Alexander
                      >
                      > Samuel
                      Casar
                      >
                      > 39
                      >
                      > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                      > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                      >
                      > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                      >
                      > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                      > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                      > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                      > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                      > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                      > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                      > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                      > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                      > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                      >
                      > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                      >
                      > Granted]
                      >
                      > 90
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Colin Fox
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      > gardiner.john@...
                      > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                      > To:
                      ymailto="mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com">st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                      > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                      > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                      > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                      > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                      > >
                      > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's
                      marriage to Timms, birth
                      > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Paul,
                      >
                      > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                      > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                      > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                      > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                      > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                      >
                      > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                      > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                      > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                      > was Louisa's father.
                      >
                      > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                      > island up to 1865 when Samuel
                      Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                      > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                      > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                      > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                      >
                      > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                      > too.
                      >
                      > Very best regards,
                      >
                      > John Gardiner
                      >


                    • Jake
                      Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

                        http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

                         

                        Jake

                         

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                         

                        Hi John (or anyone out their)

                        I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                        All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                        I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                        It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                        Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                        Judith Armstrong
                        Elwood Australia

                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
                        by
                        > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                        > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
                        be
                        > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
                        future
                        > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                        > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                        > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
                        Connections magazine)
                        >
                        > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
                        society
                        > to be a member of.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > No
                        >
                        > Name of Proprietior
                        >
                        > Name of Slave
                        >
                        > Age
                        >
                        > Description
                        >
                        > Value
                        >
                        > Remarks
                        >
                        >
                        > 648
                        >
                        > Mrs M Barnes
                        >
                        > Finny Caesar
                        >
                        > 60
                        >
                        > Infirm
                        >
                        > 1/-
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 649
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Caroline Caesar
                        >
                        > 24
                        >
                        > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 282
                        >
                        > Mrs Harper
                        >
                        > George Caesar
                        >
                        > 68
                        >
                        > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 620
                        >
                        > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                        >
                        > John Caesar
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                        >
                        > 80
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 622
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Flora Caesar
                        >
                        > 32
                        >
                        > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                        > servant unmarried
                        >
                        > 20
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 357
                        >
                        > Mr Greentree
                        >
                        > Margaret Caesar
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        > Not yet employed
                        >
                        > 15
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 332
                        >
                        > Mrs Lester
                        >
                        > Mary Caesar
                        >
                        > 30
                        >
                        > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                        >
                        > 35
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 785
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe
                        >
                        > Massie Caesar
                        >
                        > (married to Wm Caesar)
                        >
                        > 26
                        >
                        > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 351
                        >
                        > Mr Greentree
                        >
                        > Michael Caesar
                        >
                        > 15
                        >
                        > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                        >
                        > 60
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 355
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Sarah Caesar
                        >
                        > 16
                        >
                        > House servant and nurse lent out
                        >
                        > 30
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 780
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe
                        >
                        > William Caesar
                        >
                        > 44
                        >
                        > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                        > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                        > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                        >
                        > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
                        years
                        > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
                        this
                        > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                        > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                        > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                        > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                        > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
                        to
                        > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
                        10
                        > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                        > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                        > has been laid to his charge
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Not valued No 19
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                        > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                        > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                        > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                        > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                        >
                        >
                        > 80
                        >
                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                        >
                        > Augustus Casar
                        >
                        > 18
                        >
                        > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                        >
                        > 75
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 108
                        >
                        > Mrs Broadway
                        >
                        > Benjamin Casar
                        >
                        > 54
                        >
                        > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 76
                        >
                        > Sergt Carolans Estate
                        >
                        > Celia Casar
                        >
                        > 40
                        >
                        > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
                        £12/annum
                        >
                        > 40
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 78
                        >
                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                        >
                        > Samuel Casar
                        >
                        > 39
                        >
                        > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
                        class
                        > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                        >
                        > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                        >
                        > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                        > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                        > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
                        to
                        > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                        > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                        > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
                        family.
                        > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
                        character
                        > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                        > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                        >
                        > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                        >
                        > Granted]
                        >
                        > 90
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Colin Fox
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of
                        > gardiner.john@...
                        > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                        > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
                        <pd91223@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
                        Helena
                        > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
                        cert
                        > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
                        maiden
                        > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                        > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                        > >
                        > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                        > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
                        origins.
                        > >
                        >
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
                        on
                        > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                        > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                        > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
                        in
                        > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                        >
                        > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                        > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                        > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                        > was Louisa's father.
                        >
                        > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                        > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                        > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                        > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
                        to
                        > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                        >
                        > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
                        siblings,
                        > too.
                        >
                        > Very best regards,
                        >
                        > John Gardiner
                        >

                      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                        Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


                          From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi John (or anyone out their)

                          I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                          All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                          I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                          It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                          Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                          Judith Armstrong
                          Elwood Australia

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                          > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                          > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                          > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                          > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                          > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                          > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                          >
                          > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                          > to be a member of.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > No
                          >
                          > Name of Proprietior
                          >
                          > Name of Slave
                          >
                          > Age
                          >
                          > Description
                          >
                          > Value
                          >
                          > Remarks
                          >
                          >
                          > 648
                          >
                          > Mrs M Barnes
                          >
                          > Finny Caesar
                          >
                          > 60
                          >
                          > Infirm
                          >
                          > 1/-
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 649
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > Caroline Caesar
                          >
                          > 24
                          >
                          > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                          >
                          > 25
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 282
                          >
                          > Mrs Harper
                          >
                          > George Caesar
                          >
                          > 68
                          >
                          > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                          >
                          > 10
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 620
                          >
                          > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                          >
                          > John Caesar
                          >
                          > 25
                          >
                          > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
                          good
                          >
                          > 80
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 622
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > Flora Caesar
                          >
                          > 32
                          >
                          > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                          > servant unmarried
                          >
                          > 20
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 357
                          >
                          > Mr Greentree
                          >
                          > Margaret Caesar
                          >
                          > 10
                          >
                          > Not yet employed
                          >
                          > 15
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 332
                          >
                          > Mrs Lester
                          >
                          > Mary Caesar
                          >
                          > 30
                          >
                          > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                          >
                          > 35
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 785
                          >
                          > Mr Lambe
                          >
                          > Massie Caesar
                          >
                          > (married to Wm Caesar)
                          >
                          > 26
                          >
                          > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                          >
                          > 25
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 351
                          >
                          > Mr Greentree
                          >
                          > Michael Caesar
                          >
                          > 15
                          >
                          > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                          >
                          > 60
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 355
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > Sarah Caesar
                          >
                          > 16
                          >
                          > House servant and nurse lent out
                          >
                          > 30
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 780
                          >
                          > Mr Lambe
                          >
                          > William Caesar
                          >
                          > 44
                          >
                          > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                          > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                          > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                          >
                          > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                          > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                          > island is an excellent mower
                          ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                          > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                          > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                          > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                          > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                          > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                          > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                          > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                          > has been laid to his charge
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Not valued No 19
                          >
                          > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                          > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                          > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
                          the
                          > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                          > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                          >
                          >
                          > 80
                          >
                          > Mr G and H Alexander
                          >
                          > Augustus Casar
                          >
                          > 18
                          >
                          > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                          >
                          > 75
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 108
                          >
                          > Mrs Broadway
                          >
                          > Benjamin Casar
                          >
                          > 54
                          >
                          > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                          >
                          > 10
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 76
                          >
                          > Sergt Carolans Estate
                          >
                          > Celia Casar
                          >
                          > 40
                          >
                          > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                          >
                          > 40
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 78
                          >
                          > Mr G and H Alexander
                          >
                          > Samuel Casar
                          >
                          > 39
                          >
                          > Good
                          mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                          > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                          >
                          > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                          >
                          > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                          > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                          > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                          > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                          > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                          > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                          > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                          > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                          > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                          >
                          > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                          >
                          > Granted]
                          >
                          > 90
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Colin Fox
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          > gardiner.john@...
                          > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                          > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                          > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                          > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                          > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                          > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                          > >
                          > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                          > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Paul,
                          >
                          > Just saw your
                          post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                          > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                          > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                          > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                          > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                          >
                          > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                          > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                          > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                          > was Louisa's father.
                          >
                          > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                          > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                          > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                          > information is in a Word document and is difficult
                          to post here but happy to
                          > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                          >
                          > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                          > too.
                          >
                          > Very best regards,
                          >
                          > John Gardiner
                          >


                        • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                          Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi John
                            Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                             
                            Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                             
                            I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                             
                            You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                             
                            Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                             
                            I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                             
                            Very best regards,
                             
                            John 
                             
                            Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                            [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                            Contents:
                            Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                             
                            [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                            Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                            [See also 52394 A above]

                            Contents:
                            Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                
                             
                             

                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                            There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                            There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                             

                            Best wishes

                             

                            Colin

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                            Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            Colin,

                             

                            Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                             

                            I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                             

                            1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                             

                            2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                             

                            Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                             

                            3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                             

                            4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                             

                            We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                             

                            I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                             

                            Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                             

                            Very best regards,

                             

                            John      

                             


                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                             

                            No

                            Name of Proprietior

                            Name of Slave

                            Age

                            Description

                            Value

                            Remarks

                            648

                            Mrs M Barnes

                            Finny Caesar

                            60

                            Infirm

                            1/-

                             

                            649

                            ditto

                            Caroline Caesar

                            24

                            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                            25

                             

                            282

                            Mrs Harper

                            George Caesar

                            68

                            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                            10

                             

                            620

                            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                            John Caesar

                            25

                            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                            80

                             

                            622

                            ditto

                            Flora Caesar

                            32

                            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                            20

                             

                            357

                            Mr Greentree

                            Margaret Caesar

                            10

                            Not yet employed

                            15

                             

                            332

                            Mrs Lester

                            Mary Caesar

                            30

                            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                            35

                             

                            785

                            Mr Lambe

                            Massie Caesar

                            (married to Wm Caesar)

                            26

                            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                            25

                             

                            351

                            Mr Greentree

                            Michael Caesar

                            15

                            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                            60

                             

                            355

                            ditto

                            Sarah Caesar

                            16

                            House servant and nurse lent out

                            30

                             

                            780

                            Mr Lambe

                            William Caesar

                            44

                            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                             

                            Not valued No 19

                            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                            80

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Augustus Casar

                            18

                            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                            75

                             

                            108

                            Mrs Broadway

                            Benjamin Casar

                            54

                            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                            10

                             

                            76

                            Sergt Carolans Estate

                            Celia Casar

                            40

                            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                            40

                             

                            78

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Samuel Casar

                            39

                            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                            Granted]

                            90

                             

                             

                            Colin Fox

                             

                            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                             

                             

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                            >
                            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                            >

                            Paul,

                            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                            Very best regards,

                            John Gardiner

                             



                          • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                            Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


                              From: foxhome <colin@...>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                              Regards

                               

                              Colin

                               

                               

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              333

                               

                              Mrs Lester

                              Elizabeth Scott

                              12

                              Useful handy girl

                              20

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                              Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              

                              Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                              Regards,

                              Alan

                               

                               

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                               

                              Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                               


                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                               

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              648

                              Mrs M Barnes

                              Finny Caesar

                              60

                              Infirm

                              1/-

                               

                              649

                              ditto

                              Caroline Caesar

                              24

                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                              25

                               

                              282

                              Mrs Harper

                              George Caesar

                              68

                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                              10

                               

                              620

                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                              John Caesar

                              25

                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                              80

                               

                              622

                              ditto

                              Flora Caesar

                              32

                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                              20

                               

                              357

                              Mr Greentree

                              Margaret Caesar

                              10

                              Not yet employed

                              15

                               

                              332

                              Mrs Lester

                              Mary Caesar

                              30

                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                              35

                               

                              785

                              Mr Lambe

                              Massie Caesar

                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                              26

                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                              25

                               

                              351

                              Mr Greentree

                              Michael Caesar

                              15

                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                              60

                               

                              355

                              ditto

                              Sarah Caesar

                              16

                              House servant and nurse lent out

                              30

                               

                              780

                              Mr Lambe

                              William Caesar

                              44

                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                               

                              Not valued No 19

                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                              80

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Augustus Casar

                              18

                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                              75

                               

                              108

                              Mrs Broadway

                              Benjamin Casar

                              54

                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                              10

                               

                              76

                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                              Celia Casar

                              40

                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                              40

                               

                              78

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Samuel Casar

                              39

                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                              Granted]

                              90

                               

                               

                              Colin Fox

                               

                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                               

                               

                               

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                              >
                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                              >

                              Paul,

                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                              Very best regards,

                              John Gardiner

                               


                            • John Gardiner
                              Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                 
                                It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi John
                                Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                 
                                Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                 
                                I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                 
                                You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                 
                                Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                 
                                I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                 
                                Very best regards,
                                 
                                John 
                                 
                                Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                Contents:
                                Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                 
                                [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                [See also 52394 A above]

                                Contents:
                                Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                    
                                 
                                 

                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                 

                                Best wishes

                                 

                                Colin

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                Colin,

                                 

                                Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                 

                                I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                 

                                1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                 

                                2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                 

                                Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                 

                                3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                 

                                4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                 

                                We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                 

                                I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                 

                                Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                 

                                Very best regards,

                                 

                                John      

                                 


                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                 

                                No

                                Name of Proprietior

                                Name of Slave

                                Age

                                Description

                                Value

                                Remarks

                                648

                                Mrs M Barnes

                                Finny Caesar

                                60

                                Infirm

                                1/-

                                 

                                649

                                ditto

                                Caroline Caesar

                                24

                                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                25

                                 

                                282

                                Mrs Harper

                                George Caesar

                                68

                                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                10

                                 

                                620

                                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                John Caesar

                                25

                                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                80

                                 

                                622

                                ditto

                                Flora Caesar

                                32

                                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                20

                                 

                                357

                                Mr Greentree

                                Margaret Caesar

                                10

                                Not yet employed

                                15

                                 

                                332

                                Mrs Lester

                                Mary Caesar

                                30

                                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                35

                                 

                                785

                                Mr Lambe

                                Massie Caesar

                                (married to Wm Caesar)

                                26

                                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                25

                                 

                                351

                                Mr Greentree

                                Michael Caesar

                                15

                                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                60

                                 

                                355

                                ditto

                                Sarah Caesar

                                16

                                House servant and nurse lent out

                                30

                                 

                                780

                                Mr Lambe

                                William Caesar

                                44

                                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                 

                                Not valued No 19

                                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                80

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Augustus Casar

                                18

                                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                75

                                 

                                108

                                Mrs Broadway

                                Benjamin Casar

                                54

                                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                10

                                 

                                76

                                Sergt Carolans Estate

                                Celia Casar

                                40

                                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                40

                                 

                                78

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Samuel Casar

                                39

                                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                Granted]

                                90

                                 

                                 

                                Colin Fox

                                 

                                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                >
                                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                >

                                Paul,

                                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                Very best regards,

                                John Gardiner

                                 




                              • foxhome
                                Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                                   

                                  Colin

                                   

                                  No

                                  Name of Proprietior

                                  Name of Slave

                                  Age

                                  Description

                                  Value £

                                  Remarks

                                  65

                                  Capt Broadway

                                  Jacob George

                                  43

                                  Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                                  65

                                   

                                  179

                                  Mr Darling

                                  James George

                                  9

                                  A house boy

                                  25

                                   

                                  180

                                  Mr Darling

                                  Peggy George

                                  22

                                  House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                                  30

                                   

                                  181

                                  Mr Darling

                                  John George

                                  20

                                  A good cook and very useful servant

                                  90

                                   

                                  183

                                  Mr Darling

                                  Jacob George

                                  17

                                  A good waiting servant

                                  70

                                   

                                  208

                                  Mr Dring

                                  Sarah George

                                  22

                                  Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                                   

                                  Not valued No 5

                                  246

                                  Mr Janisch

                                  Louisa George

                                  11

                                  Useful little girl

                                  20

                                   

                                  273

                                  Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                                  May George

                                  33

                                  A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                                  105

                                   

                                  277

                                  Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                  John George

                                  37

                                  First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                                  105

                                   

                                  279

                                  Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                  Frances George

                                  10

                                  Useful farm boy

                                  30

                                   

                                  281

                                  Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                  Nanny George

                                  36

                                  Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                                  20

                                   

                                  378

                                  Mr Mulhall

                                  Lucy George

                                  28

                                  Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                                  30

                                   

                                  379

                                  Mr Mulhall

                                  Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                                  13

                                  A very useful house girl

                                  30

                                   

                                  428

                                  Major D K Pritchard

                                  Charles George

                                  34

                                  A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                                  105

                                   

                                  429

                                  Mr H T Seale

                                  Jane George

                                  43

                                  Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                                  30

                                   

                                  433

                                  Dr Lorimer

                                  Martha George

                                  16

                                  Useful house servant good character

                                  30

                                   

                                  483

                                  Miss Mason

                                  Susan George

                                  24

                                  Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                                  20

                                   

                                  498

                                  Mr B Solomon

                                  Benj George

                                  10

                                  Useful houseboy

                                  35

                                   

                                  501

                                  Mr S Solomon

                                  Dolly George

                                  17

                                  Needlewoman and nurse

                                  25

                                   

                                  519

                                  Mr William Seale jun.

                                  Nancy George

                                  26

                                  Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                                  25

                                   

                                  525

                                  Major Seale

                                  Sally George

                                  22

                                  Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                                  40

                                   

                                  534

                                  Major Seale

                                  Ruth George

                                  18

                                  A good house servant

                                  30

                                   

                                  535

                                  Major Seale

                                  Martha George

                                  13

                                  A good house servant

                                  25

                                   

                                  541

                                  Major Seale

                                  James George

                                  32

                                  Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                                   

                                  Not valued No 11

                                  542

                                  Major Seale

                                  Benj George

                                  18

                                  Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                                   

                                  Not valued no 12

                                  543

                                  Major Seale

                                  Harry George

                                  21

                                  A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                                  110

                                   

                                  544

                                  Major Seale

                                  Cornelius George

                                  13

                                • Shirley Morgan
                                  Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                     
                                    Hi All

                                    I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                    (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                    assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                    not anything else.

                                    He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                    writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                    he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                    Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                    I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                    so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                    Many thanks in advance

                                    Shirley Morgan



                                    Shirley





                                    Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                                  • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                    Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
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                                      Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                       
                                      It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                      of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                      These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                      From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi John
                                      Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                       
                                      Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                       
                                      I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                       
                                      You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                       
                                      Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                       
                                      I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                       
                                      Very best regards,
                                       
                                      John 
                                       
                                      Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                      [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                      Contents:
                                      Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                       
                                      [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                      Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                      [See also 52394 A above]

                                      Contents:
                                      Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                          
                                       
                                       

                                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                      There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                      There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                       

                                      Best wishes

                                       

                                      Colin

                                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                      Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                       

                                      Colin,

                                       

                                      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                       

                                      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                       

                                      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                       

                                      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                       

                                      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                       

                                      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                       

                                      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                       

                                      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                       

                                      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                       

                                      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                       

                                      Very best regards,

                                       

                                      John      

                                       


                                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                       

                                      No

                                      Name of Proprietior

                                      Name of Slave

                                      Age

                                      Description

                                      Value

                                      Remarks

                                      648

                                      Mrs M Barnes

                                      Finny Caesar

                                      60

                                      Infirm

                                      1/-

                                       

                                      649

                                      ditto

                                      Caroline Caesar

                                      24

                                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                      25

                                       

                                      282

                                      Mrs Harper

                                      George Caesar

                                      68

                                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                      10

                                       

                                      620

                                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                      John Caesar

                                      25

                                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                      80

                                       

                                      622

                                      ditto

                                      Flora Caesar

                                      32

                                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                      20

                                       

                                      357

                                      Mr Greentree

                                      Margaret Caesar

                                      10

                                      Not yet employed

                                      15

                                       

                                      332

                                      Mrs Lester

                                      Mary Caesar

                                      30

                                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                      35

                                       

                                      785

                                      Mr Lambe

                                      Massie Caesar

                                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                                      26

                                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                      25

                                       

                                      351

                                      Mr Greentree

                                      Michael Caesar

                                      15

                                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                      60

                                       

                                      355

                                      ditto

                                      Sarah Caesar

                                      16

                                      House servant and nurse lent out

                                      30

                                       

                                      780

                                      Mr Lambe

                                      William Caesar

                                      44

                                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                       

                                      Not valued No 19

                                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                      80

                                      Mr G and H Alexander

                                      Augustus Casar

                                      18

                                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                      75

                                       

                                      108

                                      Mrs Broadway

                                      Benjamin Casar

                                      54

                                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                      10

                                       

                                      76

                                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                                      Celia Casar

                                      40

                                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                      40

                                       

                                      78

                                      Mr G and H Alexander

                                      Samuel Casar

                                      39

                                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                      Granted]

                                      90

                                       

                                       

                                      Colin Fox

                                       

                                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                       

                                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                      >
                                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                      >

                                      Paul,

                                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                      Very best regards,

                                      John Gardiner

                                       





                                    • John Gardiner
                                      Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                         
                                        It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                        of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                        These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi John
                                        Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                         
                                        Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                         
                                        I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                         
                                        You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                         
                                        Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                         
                                        I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                         
                                        Very best regards,
                                         
                                        John 
                                         
                                        Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                        [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                        Contents:
                                        Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                         
                                        [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                        Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                        [See also 52394 A above]

                                        Contents:
                                        Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                            
                                         
                                         

                                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                        There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                        There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                         

                                        Best wishes

                                         

                                        Colin

                                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                        Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                         

                                        Colin,

                                         

                                        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                         

                                        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                         

                                        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                         

                                        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                         

                                        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                         

                                        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                         

                                        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                         

                                        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                         

                                        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                         

                                        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                         

                                        Very best regards,

                                         

                                        John      

                                         


                                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                         

                                        No

                                        Name of Proprietior

                                        Name of Slave

                                        Age

                                        Description

                                        Value

                                        Remarks

                                        648

                                        Mrs M Barnes

                                        Finny Caesar

                                        60

                                        Infirm

                                        1/-

                                         

                                        649

                                        ditto

                                        Caroline Caesar

                                        24

                                        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                        25

                                         

                                        282

                                        Mrs Harper

                                        George Caesar

                                        68

                                        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                        10

                                         

                                        620

                                        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                        John Caesar

                                        25

                                        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                        80

                                         

                                        622

                                        ditto

                                        Flora Caesar

                                        32

                                        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                        20

                                         

                                        357

                                        Mr Greentree

                                        Margaret Caesar

                                        10

                                        Not yet employed

                                        15

                                         

                                        332

                                        Mrs Lester

                                        Mary Caesar

                                        30

                                        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                        35

                                         

                                        785

                                        Mr Lambe

                                        Massie Caesar

                                        (married to Wm Caesar)

                                        26

                                        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                        25

                                         

                                        351

                                        Mr Greentree

                                        Michael Caesar

                                        15

                                        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                        60

                                         

                                        355

                                        ditto

                                        Sarah Caesar

                                        16

                                        House servant and nurse lent out

                                        30

                                         

                                        780

                                        Mr Lambe

                                        William Caesar

                                        44

                                        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                         

                                        Not valued No 19

                                        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                        80

                                        Mr G and H Alexander

                                        Augustus Casar

                                        18

                                        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                        75

                                         

                                        108

                                        Mrs Broadway

                                        Benjamin Casar

                                        54

                                        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                        10

                                         

                                        76

                                        Sergt Carolans Estate

                                        Celia Casar

                                        40

                                        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                        40

                                         

                                        78

                                        Mr G and H Alexander

                                        Samuel Casar

                                        39

                                        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                        Granted]

                                        90

                                         

                                         

                                        Colin Fox

                                         

                                        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                         

                                        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                        >
                                        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                        >

                                        Paul,

                                        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                        Very best regards,

                                        John Gardiner

                                         






                                      • Arabella George
                                        Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
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                                          Hi Nancy-Jo
                                          I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                                          Regards 

                                          Bella George

                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                          On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                                           

                                          Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                           
                                          It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                          of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                          These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi John
                                          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                           
                                          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                           
                                          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                           
                                          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                           
                                          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                           
                                          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                           
                                          Very best regards,
                                           
                                          John 
                                           
                                          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                          Contents:
                                          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                           
                                          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                          [See also 52394 A above]

                                          Contents:
                                          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                              
                                           
                                           

                                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                           

                                          Best wishes

                                           

                                          Colin

                                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                           

                                          Colin,

                                           

                                          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                           

                                          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                           

                                          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                           

                                          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                           

                                          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                           

                                          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                           

                                          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                           

                                          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                           

                                          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                           

                                          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                           

                                          Very best regards,

                                           

                                          John      

                                           


                                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                           

                                          No

                                          Name of Proprietior

                                          Name of Slave

                                          Age

                                          Description

                                          Value

                                          Remarks

                                          648

                                          Mrs M Barnes

                                          Finny Caesar

                                          60

                                          Infirm

                                          1/-

                                           

                                          649

                                          ditto

                                          Caroline Caesar

                                          24

                                          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                          25

                                           

                                          282

                                          Mrs Harper

                                          George Caesar

                                          68

                                          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                          10

                                           

                                          620

                                          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                          John Caesar

                                          25

                                          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                          80

                                           

                                          622

                                          ditto

                                          Flora Caesar

                                          32

                                          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                          20

                                           

                                          357

                                          Mr Greentree

                                          Margaret Caesar

                                          10

                                          Not yet employed

                                          15

                                           

                                          332

                                          Mrs Lester

                                          Mary Caesar

                                          30

                                          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                          35

                                           

                                          785

                                          Mr Lambe

                                          Massie Caesar

                                          (married to Wm Caesar)

                                          26

                                          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                          25

                                           

                                          351

                                          Mr Greentree

                                          Michael Caesar

                                          15

                                          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                          60

                                           

                                          355

                                          ditto

                                          Sarah Caesar

                                          16

                                          House servant and nurse lent out

                                          30

                                           

                                          780

                                          Mr Lambe

                                          William Caesar

                                          44

                                          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                           

                                          Not valued No 19

                                          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                          80

                                          Mr G and H Alexander

                                          Augustus Casar

                                          18

                                          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                          75

                                           

                                          108

                                          Mrs Broadway

                                          Benjamin Casar

                                          54

                                          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                          10

                                           

                                          76

                                          Sergt Carolans Estate

                                          Celia Casar

                                          40

                                          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                          40

                                           

                                          78

                                          Mr G and H Alexander

                                          Samuel Casar

                                          39

                                          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                          Granted]

                                          90

                                           

                                           

                                          Colin Fox

                                           

                                          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                           

                                          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                          >
                                          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                          >

                                          Paul,

                                          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                          Very best regards,

                                          John Gardiner

                                           






                                        • Shirley Morgan
                                          I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
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                                            I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                            (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                                             
                                            Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                                            Shirley


                                             

                                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: shirleymorgan967@...
                                            Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                                             

                                             
                                            Hi All

                                            I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                            (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                            assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                            not anything else.

                                            He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                            writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                            he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                            Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                            I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                            so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                            Many thanks in advance

                                            Shirley Morgan



                                            Shirley





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