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RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • Mary King
    Many thanks for this it might shed some light on other Caesars within our family kinds regards Mary ... From: foxhome Subject: RE:
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
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      Many thanks for this it might shed some light on other Caesars within our family kinds regards Mary

      --- On Sun, 13/6/10, foxhome <colin@...> wrote:

      From: foxhome <colin@...>
      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 14:22

       

      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

       

      No

      Name of Proprietior

      Name of Slave

      Age

      Description

      Value

      Remarks

      648

      Mrs M Barnes

      Finny Caesar

      60

      Infirm

      1/-

       

      649

      ditto

      Caroline Caesar

      24

      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

      25

       

      282

      Mrs Harper

      George Caesar

      68

      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

      10

       

      620

      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

      John Caesar

      25

      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

      80

       

      622

      ditto

      Flora Caesar

      32

      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

      20

       

      357

      Mr Greentree

      Margaret Caesar

      10

      Not yet employed

      15

       

      332

      Mrs Lester

      Mary Caesar

      30

      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

      35

       

      785

      Mr Lambe

      Massie Caesar

      (married to Wm Caesar)

      26

      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

      25

       

      351

      Mr Greentree

      Michael Caesar

      15

      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

      60

       

      355

      ditto

      Sarah Caesar

      16

      House servant and nurse lent out

      30

       

      780

      Mr Lambe

      William Caesar

      44

      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

       

      Not valued No 19

      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

      80

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Augustus Casar

      18

      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

      75

       

      108

      Mrs Broadway

      Benjamin Casar

      54

      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

      10

       

      76

      Sergt Carolans Estate

      Celia Casar

      40

      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

      40

       

      78

      Mr G and H Alexander

      Samuel Casar

      39

      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

      Granted]

      90

       

       

      Colin Fox

       

      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

       

       

       

      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

       

       

      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
      >
      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
      >
      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
      >

      Paul,

      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

      Very best regards,

      John Gardiner


    • Nancy-Jo Nunez
      Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well. ________________________________ From: foxhome To:
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
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        Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


        From: foxhome <colin@...>
        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

         

        No

        Name of Proprietior

        Name of Slave

        Age

        Description

        Value

        Remarks

        648

        Mrs M Barnes

        Finny Caesar

        60

        Infirm

        1/-

         

        649

        ditto

        Caroline Caesar

        24

        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

        25

         

        282

        Mrs Harper

        George Caesar

        68

        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

        10

         

        620

        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

        John Caesar

        25

        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

        80

         

        622

        ditto

        Flora Caesar

        32

        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

        20

         

        357

        Mr Greentree

        Margaret Caesar

        10

        Not yet employed

        15

         

        332

        Mrs Lester

        Mary Caesar

        30

        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

        35

         

        785

        Mr Lambe

        Massie Caesar

        (married to Wm Caesar)

        26

        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

        25

         

        351

        Mr Greentree

        Michael Caesar

        15

        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

        60

         

        355

        ditto

        Sarah Caesar

        16

        House servant and nurse lent out

        30

         

        780

        Mr Lambe

        William Caesar

        44

        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

         

        Not valued No 19

        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

        80

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Augustus Casar

        18

        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

        75

         

        108

        Mrs Broadway

        Benjamin Casar

        54

        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

        10

         

        76

        Sergt Carolans Estate

        Celia Casar

        40

        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

        40

         

        78

        Mr G and H Alexander

        Samuel Casar

        39

        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

        Granted]

        90

         

         

        Colin Fox

         

        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

         

         

         

        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

         

         

        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
        >
        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        >
        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        >

        Paul,

        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

        Very best regards,

        John Gardiner


      • A. Russ
        Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott? Regards, Alan ... From: Nancy-Jo Nunez To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          
          Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?
          Regards,
          Alan
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

           

          No

          Name of Proprietior

          Name of Slave

          Age

          Description

          Value

          Remarks

          648

          Mrs M Barnes

          Finny Caesar

          60

          Infirm

          1/-

           

          649

          ditto

          Caroline Caesar

          24

          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

          25

           

          282

          Mrs Harper

          George Caesar

          68

          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

          10

           

          620

          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

          John Caesar

          25

          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

          80

           

          622

          ditto

          Flora Caesar

          32

          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

          20

           

          357

          Mr Greentree

          Margaret Caesar

          10

          Not yet employed

          15

           

          332

          Mrs Lester

          Mary Caesar

          30

          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

          35

           

          785

          Mr Lambe

          Massie Caesar

          (married to Wm Caesar)

          26

          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

          25

           

          351

          Mr Greentree

          Michael Caesar

          15

          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

          60

           

          355

          ditto

          Sarah Caesar

          16

          House servant and nurse lent out

          30

           

          780

          Mr Lambe

          William Caesar

          44

          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

           

          Not valued No 19

          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

          80

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Augustus Casar

          18

          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

          75

           

          108

          Mrs Broadway

          Benjamin Casar

          54

          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

          10

           

          76

          Sergt Carolans Estate

          Celia Casar

          40

          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

          40

           

          78

          Mr G and H Alexander

          Samuel Casar

          39

          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

          Granted]

          90

           

           

          Colin Fox

           

          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

           

           

           

          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner


        • John Gardiner
          Colin, Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 13, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Colin,
             
            Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 
             
            I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  
             
            1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.
             
            2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  
             
            Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  
             
            3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 
             
            4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.
             
            We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 
             
            I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.
             
            Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.
             
            Very best regards,
             
            John      


            From: foxhome <colin@...>
            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

             

            No

            Name of Proprietior

            Name of Slave

            Age

            Description

            Value

            Remarks

            648

            Mrs M Barnes

            Finny Caesar

            60

            Infirm

            1/-

             

            649

            ditto

            Caroline Caesar

            24

            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

            25

             

            282

            Mrs Harper

            George Caesar

            68

            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

            10

             

            620

            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

            John Caesar

            25

            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

            80

             

            622

            ditto

            Flora Caesar

            32

            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

            20

             

            357

            Mr Greentree

            Margaret Caesar

            10

            Not yet employed

            15

             

            332

            Mrs Lester

            Mary Caesar

            30

            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

            35

             

            785

            Mr Lambe

            Massie Caesar

            (married to Wm Caesar)

            26

            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

            25

             

            351

            Mr Greentree

            Michael Caesar

            15

            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

            60

             

            355

            ditto

            Sarah Caesar

            16

            House servant and nurse lent out

            30

             

            780

            Mr Lambe

            William Caesar

            44

            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

             

            Not valued No 19

            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

            80

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Augustus Casar

            18

            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

            75

             

            108

            Mrs Broadway

            Benjamin Casar

            54

            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

            10

             

            76

            Sergt Carolans Estate

            Celia Casar

            40

            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

            40

             

            78

            Mr G and H Alexander

            Samuel Casar

            39

            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

            Granted]

            90

             

             

            Colin Fox

             

            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

             

             

             

            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

             

             

            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
            >
            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            >
            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            >

            Paul,

            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

            Very best regards,

            John Gardiner


          • foxhome
            John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264. In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
            • 0 Attachment

              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

               

              Best wishes

               

              Colin

              From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              Colin,

               

              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 

               

              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

               

              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

               

              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

               

              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

               

              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

               

              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

               

              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

               

              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

               

              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

               

              Very best regards,

               

              John      

               


              From: foxhome <colin@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

               

              No

              Name of Proprietior

              Name of Slave

              Age

              Description

              Value

              Remarks

              648

              Mrs M Barnes

              Finny Caesar

              60

              Infirm

              1/-

               

              649

              ditto

              Caroline Caesar

              24

              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

              25

               

              282

              Mrs Harper

              George Caesar

              68

              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

              10

               

              620

              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

              John Caesar

              25

              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

              80

               

              622

              ditto

              Flora Caesar

              32

              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

              20

               

              357

              Mr Greentree

              Margaret Caesar

              10

              Not yet employed

              15

               

              332

              Mrs Lester

              Mary Caesar

              30

              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

              35

               

              785

              Mr Lambe

              Massie Caesar

              (married to Wm Caesar)

              26

              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

              25

               

              351

              Mr Greentree

              Michael Caesar

              15

              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

              60

               

              355

              ditto

              Sarah Caesar

              16

              House servant and nurse lent out

              30

               

              780

              Mr Lambe

              William Caesar

              44

              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

               

              Not valued No 19

              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

              80

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Augustus Casar

              18

              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

              75

               

              108

              Mrs Broadway

              Benjamin Casar

              54

              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

              10

               

              76

              Sergt Carolans Estate

              Celia Casar

              40

              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

              40

               

              78

              Mr G and H Alexander

              Samuel Casar

              39

              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

              Granted]

              90

               

               

              Colin Fox

               

              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

               

               

               

              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

               

              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:

              >
              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
              from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              >
              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
              details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              >

              Paul,

              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

              Very best regards,

              John Gardiner

               

            • foxhome
              Alan, Not much but the name does appear. Regards Colin No Name of Proprietior Name of Slave Age Description Value Remarks 333 Mrs Lester Elizabeth Scott 12
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
              • 0 Attachment

                Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                Regards

                 

                Colin

                 

                 

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                333

                 

                Mrs Lester

                Elizabeth Scott

                12

                Useful handy girl

                20

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                

                Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                Regards,

                Alan

                 

                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                 


                From: foxhome <colin@...>
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                 

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                648

                Mrs M Barnes

                Finny Caesar

                60

                Infirm

                1/-

                 

                649

                ditto

                Caroline Caesar

                24

                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                25

                 

                282

                Mrs Harper

                George Caesar

                68

                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                10

                 

                620

                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                John Caesar

                25

                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                80

                 

                622

                ditto

                Flora Caesar

                32

                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                20

                 

                357

                Mr Greentree

                Margaret Caesar

                10

                Not yet employed

                15

                 

                332

                Mrs Lester

                Mary Caesar

                30

                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                35

                 

                785

                Mr Lambe

                Massie Caesar

                (married to Wm Caesar)

                26

                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                25

                 

                351

                Mr Greentree

                Michael Caesar

                15

                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                60

                 

                355

                ditto

                Sarah Caesar

                16

                House servant and nurse lent out

                30

                 

                780

                Mr Lambe

                William Caesar

                44

                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                 

                Not valued No 19

                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                80

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Augustus Casar

                18

                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                75

                 

                108

                Mrs Broadway

                Benjamin Casar

                54

                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                10

                 

                76

                Sergt Carolans Estate

                Celia Casar

                40

                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                40

                 

                78

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Samuel Casar

                39

                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                Granted]

                90

                 

                 

                Colin Fox

                 

                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                 

                 

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                >
                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                >
                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                >

                Paul,

                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                Very best regards,

                John Gardiner

                 

              • A. Russ
                Thanks, Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920. ... From: foxhome To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  
                  Thanks,
                  Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: foxhome
                  Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                  Regards

                  Colin

                  No

                  Name of Proprietior

                  Name of Slave

                  Age

                  Description

                  Value

                  Remarks

                  333

                  Mrs Lester

                  Elizabeth Scott

                  12

                  Useful handy girl

                  20

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                  Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  

                  Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                  Regards,

                  Alan

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                  No

                  Name of Proprietior

                  Name of Slave

                  Age

                  Description

                  Value

                  Remarks

                  648

                  Mrs M Barnes

                  Finny Caesar

                  60

                  Infirm

                  1/-

                  649

                  ditto

                  Caroline Caesar

                  24

                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                  25

                  282

                  Mrs Harper

                  George Caesar

                  68

                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                  10

                  620

                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                  John Caesar

                  25

                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                  80

                  622

                  ditto

                  Flora Caesar

                  32

                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                  20

                  357

                  Mr Greentree

                  Margaret Caesar

                  10

                  Not yet employed

                  15

                  332

                  Mrs Lester

                  Mary Caesar

                  30

                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                  35

                  785

                  Mr Lambe

                  Massie Caesar

                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                  26

                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                  25

                  351

                  Mr Greentree

                  Michael Caesar

                  15

                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                  60

                  355

                  ditto

                  Sarah Caesar

                  16

                  House servant and nurse lent out

                  30

                  780

                  Mr Lambe

                  William Caesar

                  44

                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                  Not valued No 19

                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                  80

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Augustus Casar

                  18

                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                  75

                  108

                  Mrs Broadway

                  Benjamin Casar

                  54

                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                  10

                  76

                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                  Celia Casar

                  40

                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                  40

                  78

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Samuel Casar

                  39

                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                  Granted]

                  90

                  Colin Fox

                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                  >
                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                  >

                  Paul,

                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                  Very best regards,

                  John Gardiner

                • foxhome
                  Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person. Colin From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person.

                     

                    Colin

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                    Sent: 14 June 2010 10:38
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    

                    Thanks,

                    Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.

                     

                     

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: foxhome

                    Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM

                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                    Regards

                    Colin

                    No

                    Name of Proprietior

                    Name of Slave

                    Age

                    Description

                    Value

                    Remarks

                    333

                    Mrs Lester

                    Elizabeth Scott

                    12

                    Useful handy girl

                    20

                    From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                    Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    

                    Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                    Regards,

                    Alan

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                    From: foxhome <colin@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                    No

                    Name of Proprietior

                    Name of Slave

                    Age

                    Description

                    Value

                    Remarks

                    648

                    Mrs M Barnes

                    Finny Caesar

                    60

                    Infirm

                    1/-

                    649

                    ditto

                    Caroline Caesar

                    24

                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                    25

                    282

                    Mrs Harper

                    George Caesar

                    68

                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                    10

                    620

                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                    John Caesar

                    25

                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                    80

                    622

                    ditto

                    Flora Caesar

                    32

                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                    20

                    357

                    Mr Greentree

                    Margaret Caesar

                    10

                    Not yet employed

                    15

                    332

                    Mrs Lester

                    Mary Caesar

                    30

                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                    35

                    785

                    Mr Lambe

                    Massie Caesar

                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                    26

                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                    25

                    351

                    Mr Greentree

                    Michael Caesar

                    15

                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                    60

                    355

                    ditto

                    Sarah Caesar

                    16

                    House servant and nurse lent out

                    30

                    780

                    Mr Lambe

                    William Caesar

                    44

                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                    Not valued No 19

                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                    80

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Augustus Casar

                    18

                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                    75

                    108

                    Mrs Broadway

                    Benjamin Casar

                    54

                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                    10

                    76

                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                    Celia Casar

                    40

                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                    40

                    78

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Samuel Casar

                    39

                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                    Granted]

                    90

                    Colin Fox

                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    >
                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    >

                    Paul,

                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                    Very best regards,

                    John Gardiner

                  • John Gardiner
                    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes -  We ll give you your freedom, but only after you ve taken out an HP agreement on yourself!  
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 14, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                       
                      Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                       
                      I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                       
                      You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                       
                      Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                       
                      I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                       
                      Very best regards,
                       
                      John 
                       
                      Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                      [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                      Contents:
                      Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                       
                      [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                      Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                      [See also 52394 A above]

                      Contents:
                      Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                          
                       
                       

                      From: foxhome <colin@...>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                      There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                      There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                       

                      Best wishes

                       

                      Colin

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                      Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      Colin,

                       

                      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                       

                      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                       

                      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                       

                      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                       

                      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                       

                      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                       

                      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                       

                      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                       

                      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                       

                      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                       

                      Very best regards,

                       

                      John      

                       


                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                       

                      No

                      Name of Proprietior

                      Name of Slave

                      Age

                      Description

                      Value

                      Remarks

                      648

                      Mrs M Barnes

                      Finny Caesar

                      60

                      Infirm

                      1/-

                       

                      649

                      ditto

                      Caroline Caesar

                      24

                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                      25

                       

                      282

                      Mrs Harper

                      George Caesar

                      68

                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                      10

                       

                      620

                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                      John Caesar

                      25

                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                      80

                       

                      622

                      ditto

                      Flora Caesar

                      32

                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                      20

                       

                      357

                      Mr Greentree

                      Margaret Caesar

                      10

                      Not yet employed

                      15

                       

                      332

                      Mrs Lester

                      Mary Caesar

                      30

                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                      35

                       

                      785

                      Mr Lambe

                      Massie Caesar

                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                      26

                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                      25

                       

                      351

                      Mr Greentree

                      Michael Caesar

                      15

                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                      60

                       

                      355

                      ditto

                      Sarah Caesar

                      16

                      House servant and nurse lent out

                      30

                       

                      780

                      Mr Lambe

                      William Caesar

                      44

                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                       

                      Not valued No 19

                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                      80

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Augustus Casar

                      18

                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                      75

                       

                      108

                      Mrs Broadway

                      Benjamin Casar

                      54

                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                      10

                       

                      76

                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                      Celia Casar

                      40

                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                      40

                       

                      78

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Samuel Casar

                      39

                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                      Granted]

                      90

                       

                       

                      Colin Fox

                       

                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                       

                       

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                       

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                      >
                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                      >

                      Paul,

                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                      Very best regards,

                      John Gardiner

                       


                    • judith.armstrong77
                      Hi John (or anyone out their) I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 15, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi John (or anyone out their)

                        I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                        All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                        I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                        It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                        Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                        Judith Armstrong
                        Elwood Australia


                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                        > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                        > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                        > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                        > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                        > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                        > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                        >
                        > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                        > to be a member of.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > No
                        >
                        > Name of Proprietior
                        >
                        > Name of Slave
                        >
                        > Age
                        >
                        > Description
                        >
                        > Value
                        >
                        > Remarks
                        >
                        >
                        > 648
                        >
                        > Mrs M Barnes
                        >
                        > Finny Caesar
                        >
                        > 60
                        >
                        > Infirm
                        >
                        > 1/-
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 649
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Caroline Caesar
                        >
                        > 24
                        >
                        > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 282
                        >
                        > Mrs Harper
                        >
                        > George Caesar
                        >
                        > 68
                        >
                        > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 620
                        >
                        > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                        >
                        > John Caesar
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                        >
                        > 80
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 622
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Flora Caesar
                        >
                        > 32
                        >
                        > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                        > servant unmarried
                        >
                        > 20
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 357
                        >
                        > Mr Greentree
                        >
                        > Margaret Caesar
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        > Not yet employed
                        >
                        > 15
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 332
                        >
                        > Mrs Lester
                        >
                        > Mary Caesar
                        >
                        > 30
                        >
                        > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                        >
                        > 35
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 785
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe
                        >
                        > Massie Caesar
                        >
                        > (married to Wm Caesar)
                        >
                        > 26
                        >
                        > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                        >
                        > 25
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 351
                        >
                        > Mr Greentree
                        >
                        > Michael Caesar
                        >
                        > 15
                        >
                        > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                        >
                        > 60
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 355
                        >
                        > ditto
                        >
                        > Sarah Caesar
                        >
                        > 16
                        >
                        > House servant and nurse lent out
                        >
                        > 30
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 780
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe
                        >
                        > William Caesar
                        >
                        > 44
                        >
                        > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                        > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                        > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                        >
                        > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                        > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                        > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                        > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                        > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                        > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                        > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                        > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                        > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                        > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                        > has been laid to his charge
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Not valued No 19
                        >
                        > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                        > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                        > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                        > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                        > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                        >
                        >
                        > 80
                        >
                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                        >
                        > Augustus Casar
                        >
                        > 18
                        >
                        > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                        >
                        > 75
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 108
                        >
                        > Mrs Broadway
                        >
                        > Benjamin Casar
                        >
                        > 54
                        >
                        > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                        >
                        > 10
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 76
                        >
                        > Sergt Carolans Estate
                        >
                        > Celia Casar
                        >
                        > 40
                        >
                        > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                        >
                        > 40
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 78
                        >
                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                        >
                        > Samuel Casar
                        >
                        > 39
                        >
                        > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                        > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                        >
                        > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                        >
                        > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                        > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                        > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                        > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                        > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                        > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                        > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                        > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                        > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                        >
                        > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                        >
                        > Granted]
                        >
                        > 90
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Colin Fox
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        > gardiner.john@...
                        > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                        > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                        > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                        > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                        > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                        > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                        > >
                        > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                        > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                        > >
                        >
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                        > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                        > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                        > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                        > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                        >
                        > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                        > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                        > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                        > was Louisa's father.
                        >
                        > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                        > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                        > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                        > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                        > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                        >
                        > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                        > too.
                        >
                        > Very best regards,
                        >
                        > John Gardiner
                        >
                      • John Gardiner
                        Hello, Judith. I m sorry, I ve only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you. Keep perservering.  I m
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello, Judith.
                           
                          I'm sorry, I've only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you.
                           
                          Keep perservering.  I'm sure more information will turn up.
                           
                          Very best regards,
                           
                          John


                          From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 6:07:46
                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi John (or anyone out their)

                          I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                          All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                          I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                          It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                          Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                          Judith Armstrong
                          Elwood Australia

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                          > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                          > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                          > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                          > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                          > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                          > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                          >
                          > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                          > to be a member
                          of.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > No
                          >
                          > Name of Proprietior
                          >
                          > Name of Slave
                          >
                          > Age
                          >
                          > Description
                          >
                          > Value
                          >
                          > Remarks
                          >
                          >
                          > 648
                          >
                          > Mrs M Barnes
                          >
                          > Finny Caesar
                          >
                          > 60
                          >
                          > Infirm
                          >
                          > 1/-
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 649
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > Caroline Caesar
                          >
                          > 24
                          >
                          > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                          >
                          > 25
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 282
                          >
                          > Mrs Harper
                          >
                          > George Caesar
                          >
                          > 68
                          >
                          > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                          >
                          > 10
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 620
                          >
                          > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                          >
                          > John Caesar
                          >
                          > 25
                          >
                          >
                          Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                          >
                          > 80
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 622
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > Flora Caesar
                          >
                          > 32
                          >
                          > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                          > servant unmarried
                          >
                          > 20
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 357
                          >
                          > Mr Greentree
                          >
                          > Margaret Caesar
                          >
                          > 10
                          >
                          > Not yet employed
                          >
                          > 15
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 332
                          >
                          > Mrs Lester
                          >
                          > Mary Caesar
                          >
                          > 30
                          >
                          > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                          >
                          > 35
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 785
                          >
                          > Mr Lambe
                          >
                          > Massie Caesar
                          >
                          > (married to Wm Caesar)
                          >
                          > 26
                          >
                          > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children
                          youngest 3 years
                          >
                          > 25
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 351
                          >
                          > Mr Greentree
                          >
                          > Michael Caesar
                          >
                          > 15
                          >
                          > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                          >
                          > 60
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 355
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > Sarah Caesar
                          >
                          > 16
                          >
                          > House servant and nurse lent out
                          >
                          > 30
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 780
                          >
                          > Mr Lambe
                          >
                          > William Caesar
                          >
                          > 44
                          >
                          > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                          > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                          > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                          >
                          > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                          > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any
                          on this
                          > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                          > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                          > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                          > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                          > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                          > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                          > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                          > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                          > has been laid to his charge
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Not valued No 19
                          >
                          > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                          > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                          > one half of the sum at which
                          he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                          > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                          > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                          >
                          >
                          > 80
                          >
                          > Mr G and H Alexander
                          >
                          > Augustus Casar
                          >
                          > 18
                          >
                          > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                          >
                          > 75
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 108
                          >
                          > Mrs Broadway
                          >
                          > Benjamin Casar
                          >
                          > 54
                          >
                          > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                          >
                          > 10
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 76
                          >
                          > Sergt Carolans Estate
                          >
                          > Celia Casar
                          >
                          > 40
                          >
                          > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                          >
                          > 40
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 78
                          >
                          > Mr G and H Alexander
                          >
                          > Samuel
                          Casar
                          >
                          > 39
                          >
                          > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                          > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                          >
                          > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                          >
                          > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                          > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                          > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                          > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                          > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                          > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                          > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                          > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                          > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                          >
                          > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                          >
                          > Granted]
                          >
                          > 90
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Colin Fox
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          > gardiner.john@...
                          > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                          > To:
                          ymailto="mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com">st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                          > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                          > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                          > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                          > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                          > >
                          > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's
                          marriage to Timms, birth
                          > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Paul,
                          >
                          > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                          > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                          > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                          > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                          > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                          >
                          > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                          > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                          > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                          > was Louisa's father.
                          >
                          > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                          > island up to 1865 when Samuel
                          Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                          > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                          > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                          > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                          >
                          > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                          > too.
                          >
                          > Very best regards,
                          >
                          > John Gardiner
                          >


                        • Jake
                          Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

                            http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

                             

                            Jake

                             

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            Hi John (or anyone out their)

                            I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                            All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                            I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                            It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                            Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                            Judith Armstrong
                            Elwood Australia

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
                            by
                            > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                            > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
                            be
                            > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
                            future
                            > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                            > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                            > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
                            Connections magazine)
                            >
                            > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
                            society
                            > to be a member of.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > No
                            >
                            > Name of Proprietior
                            >
                            > Name of Slave
                            >
                            > Age
                            >
                            > Description
                            >
                            > Value
                            >
                            > Remarks
                            >
                            >
                            > 648
                            >
                            > Mrs M Barnes
                            >
                            > Finny Caesar
                            >
                            > 60
                            >
                            > Infirm
                            >
                            > 1/-
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 649
                            >
                            > ditto
                            >
                            > Caroline Caesar
                            >
                            > 24
                            >
                            > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                            >
                            > 25
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 282
                            >
                            > Mrs Harper
                            >
                            > George Caesar
                            >
                            > 68
                            >
                            > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                            >
                            > 10
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 620
                            >
                            > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                            >
                            > John Caesar
                            >
                            > 25
                            >
                            > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                            >
                            > 80
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 622
                            >
                            > ditto
                            >
                            > Flora Caesar
                            >
                            > 32
                            >
                            > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                            > servant unmarried
                            >
                            > 20
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 357
                            >
                            > Mr Greentree
                            >
                            > Margaret Caesar
                            >
                            > 10
                            >
                            > Not yet employed
                            >
                            > 15
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 332
                            >
                            > Mrs Lester
                            >
                            > Mary Caesar
                            >
                            > 30
                            >
                            > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                            >
                            > 35
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 785
                            >
                            > Mr Lambe
                            >
                            > Massie Caesar
                            >
                            > (married to Wm Caesar)
                            >
                            > 26
                            >
                            > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                            >
                            > 25
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 351
                            >
                            > Mr Greentree
                            >
                            > Michael Caesar
                            >
                            > 15
                            >
                            > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                            >
                            > 60
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 355
                            >
                            > ditto
                            >
                            > Sarah Caesar
                            >
                            > 16
                            >
                            > House servant and nurse lent out
                            >
                            > 30
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 780
                            >
                            > Mr Lambe
                            >
                            > William Caesar
                            >
                            > 44
                            >
                            > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                            > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                            > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                            >
                            > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
                            years
                            > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
                            this
                            > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                            > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                            > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                            > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                            > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
                            to
                            > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
                            10
                            > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                            > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                            > has been laid to his charge
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Not valued No 19
                            >
                            > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                            > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                            > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                            > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                            > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                            >
                            >
                            > 80
                            >
                            > Mr G and H Alexander
                            >
                            > Augustus Casar
                            >
                            > 18
                            >
                            > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                            >
                            > 75
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 108
                            >
                            > Mrs Broadway
                            >
                            > Benjamin Casar
                            >
                            > 54
                            >
                            > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                            >
                            > 10
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 76
                            >
                            > Sergt Carolans Estate
                            >
                            > Celia Casar
                            >
                            > 40
                            >
                            > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
                            £12/annum
                            >
                            > 40
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 78
                            >
                            > Mr G and H Alexander
                            >
                            > Samuel Casar
                            >
                            > 39
                            >
                            > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
                            class
                            > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                            >
                            > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                            >
                            > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                            > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                            > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
                            to
                            > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                            > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                            > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
                            family.
                            > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
                            character
                            > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                            > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                            >
                            > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                            >
                            > Granted]
                            >
                            > 90
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Colin Fox
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of
                            > gardiner.john@...
                            > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                            > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
                            <pd91223@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
                            Helena
                            > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
                            cert
                            > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
                            maiden
                            > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                            > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                            > >
                            > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                            > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
                            origins.
                            > >
                            >
                            > Paul,
                            >
                            > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
                            on
                            > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                            > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                            > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
                            in
                            > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                            >
                            > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                            > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                            > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                            > was Louisa's father.
                            >
                            > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                            > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                            > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                            > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
                            to
                            > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                            >
                            > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
                            siblings,
                            > too.
                            >
                            > Very best regards,
                            >
                            > John Gardiner
                            >

                          • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                            Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


                              From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi John (or anyone out their)

                              I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                              All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                              I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                              It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                              Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                              Judith Armstrong
                              Elwood Australia

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                              > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                              > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                              > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                              > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                              > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                              > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                              >
                              > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                              > to be a member of.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > No
                              >
                              > Name of Proprietior
                              >
                              > Name of Slave
                              >
                              > Age
                              >
                              > Description
                              >
                              > Value
                              >
                              > Remarks
                              >
                              >
                              > 648
                              >
                              > Mrs M Barnes
                              >
                              > Finny Caesar
                              >
                              > 60
                              >
                              > Infirm
                              >
                              > 1/-
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 649
                              >
                              > ditto
                              >
                              > Caroline Caesar
                              >
                              > 24
                              >
                              > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                              >
                              > 25
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 282
                              >
                              > Mrs Harper
                              >
                              > George Caesar
                              >
                              > 68
                              >
                              > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                              >
                              > 10
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 620
                              >
                              > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                              >
                              > John Caesar
                              >
                              > 25
                              >
                              > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
                              good
                              >
                              > 80
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 622
                              >
                              > ditto
                              >
                              > Flora Caesar
                              >
                              > 32
                              >
                              > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                              > servant unmarried
                              >
                              > 20
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 357
                              >
                              > Mr Greentree
                              >
                              > Margaret Caesar
                              >
                              > 10
                              >
                              > Not yet employed
                              >
                              > 15
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 332
                              >
                              > Mrs Lester
                              >
                              > Mary Caesar
                              >
                              > 30
                              >
                              > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                              >
                              > 35
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 785
                              >
                              > Mr Lambe
                              >
                              > Massie Caesar
                              >
                              > (married to Wm Caesar)
                              >
                              > 26
                              >
                              > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                              >
                              > 25
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 351
                              >
                              > Mr Greentree
                              >
                              > Michael Caesar
                              >
                              > 15
                              >
                              > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                              >
                              > 60
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 355
                              >
                              > ditto
                              >
                              > Sarah Caesar
                              >
                              > 16
                              >
                              > House servant and nurse lent out
                              >
                              > 30
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 780
                              >
                              > Mr Lambe
                              >
                              > William Caesar
                              >
                              > 44
                              >
                              > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                              > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                              > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                              >
                              > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                              > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                              > island is an excellent mower
                              ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                              > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                              > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                              > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                              > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                              > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                              > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                              > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                              > has been laid to his charge
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Not valued No 19
                              >
                              > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                              > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                              > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
                              the
                              > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                              > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                              >
                              >
                              > 80
                              >
                              > Mr G and H Alexander
                              >
                              > Augustus Casar
                              >
                              > 18
                              >
                              > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                              >
                              > 75
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 108
                              >
                              > Mrs Broadway
                              >
                              > Benjamin Casar
                              >
                              > 54
                              >
                              > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                              >
                              > 10
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 76
                              >
                              > Sergt Carolans Estate
                              >
                              > Celia Casar
                              >
                              > 40
                              >
                              > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                              >
                              > 40
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 78
                              >
                              > Mr G and H Alexander
                              >
                              > Samuel Casar
                              >
                              > 39
                              >
                              > Good
                              mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                              > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                              >
                              > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                              >
                              > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                              > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                              > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                              > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                              > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                              > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                              > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                              > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                              > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                              >
                              > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                              >
                              > Granted]
                              >
                              > 90
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Colin Fox
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              > gardiner.john@...
                              > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                              > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                              > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                              > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                              > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                              > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                              > >
                              > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                              > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                              > >
                              >
                              > Paul,
                              >
                              > Just saw your
                              post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                              > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                              > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                              > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                              > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                              >
                              > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                              > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                              > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                              > was Louisa's father.
                              >
                              > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                              > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                              > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                              > information is in a Word document and is difficult
                              to post here but happy to
                              > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                              >
                              > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                              > too.
                              >
                              > Very best regards,
                              >
                              > John Gardiner
                              >


                            • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                              Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi John
                                Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                 
                                Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                 
                                I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                 
                                You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                 
                                Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                 
                                I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                 
                                Very best regards,
                                 
                                John 
                                 
                                Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                Contents:
                                Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                 
                                [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                [See also 52394 A above]

                                Contents:
                                Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                    
                                 
                                 

                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                 

                                Best wishes

                                 

                                Colin

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                Colin,

                                 

                                Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                 

                                I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                 

                                1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                 

                                2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                 

                                Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                 

                                3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                 

                                4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                 

                                We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                 

                                I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                 

                                Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                 

                                Very best regards,

                                 

                                John      

                                 


                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                 

                                No

                                Name of Proprietior

                                Name of Slave

                                Age

                                Description

                                Value

                                Remarks

                                648

                                Mrs M Barnes

                                Finny Caesar

                                60

                                Infirm

                                1/-

                                 

                                649

                                ditto

                                Caroline Caesar

                                24

                                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                25

                                 

                                282

                                Mrs Harper

                                George Caesar

                                68

                                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                10

                                 

                                620

                                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                John Caesar

                                25

                                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                80

                                 

                                622

                                ditto

                                Flora Caesar

                                32

                                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                20

                                 

                                357

                                Mr Greentree

                                Margaret Caesar

                                10

                                Not yet employed

                                15

                                 

                                332

                                Mrs Lester

                                Mary Caesar

                                30

                                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                35

                                 

                                785

                                Mr Lambe

                                Massie Caesar

                                (married to Wm Caesar)

                                26

                                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                25

                                 

                                351

                                Mr Greentree

                                Michael Caesar

                                15

                                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                60

                                 

                                355

                                ditto

                                Sarah Caesar

                                16

                                House servant and nurse lent out

                                30

                                 

                                780

                                Mr Lambe

                                William Caesar

                                44

                                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                 

                                Not valued No 19

                                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                80

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Augustus Casar

                                18

                                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                75

                                 

                                108

                                Mrs Broadway

                                Benjamin Casar

                                54

                                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                10

                                 

                                76

                                Sergt Carolans Estate

                                Celia Casar

                                40

                                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                40

                                 

                                78

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Samuel Casar

                                39

                                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                Granted]

                                90

                                 

                                 

                                Colin Fox

                                 

                                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                >
                                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                >

                                Paul,

                                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                Very best regards,

                                John Gardiner

                                 



                              • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 16, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


                                  From: foxhome <colin@...>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                                  Regards

                                   

                                  Colin

                                   

                                   

                                  No

                                  Name of Proprietior

                                  Name of Slave

                                  Age

                                  Description

                                  Value

                                  Remarks

                                  333

                                   

                                  Mrs Lester

                                  Elizabeth Scott

                                  12

                                  Useful handy girl

                                  20

                                   

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                                  Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                   

                                  

                                  Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                                  Regards,

                                  Alan

                                   

                                   

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                   

                                  Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                                   


                                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                   

                                  No

                                  Name of Proprietior

                                  Name of Slave

                                  Age

                                  Description

                                  Value

                                  Remarks

                                  648

                                  Mrs M Barnes

                                  Finny Caesar

                                  60

                                  Infirm

                                  1/-

                                   

                                  649

                                  ditto

                                  Caroline Caesar

                                  24

                                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                  25

                                   

                                  282

                                  Mrs Harper

                                  George Caesar

                                  68

                                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                  10

                                   

                                  620

                                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                  John Caesar

                                  25

                                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                  80

                                   

                                  622

                                  ditto

                                  Flora Caesar

                                  32

                                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                  20

                                   

                                  357

                                  Mr Greentree

                                  Margaret Caesar

                                  10

                                  Not yet employed

                                  15

                                   

                                  332

                                  Mrs Lester

                                  Mary Caesar

                                  30

                                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                  35

                                   

                                  785

                                  Mr Lambe

                                  Massie Caesar

                                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                                  26

                                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                  25

                                   

                                  351

                                  Mr Greentree

                                  Michael Caesar

                                  15

                                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                  60

                                   

                                  355

                                  ditto

                                  Sarah Caesar

                                  16

                                  House servant and nurse lent out

                                  30

                                   

                                  780

                                  Mr Lambe

                                  William Caesar

                                  44

                                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                   

                                  Not valued No 19

                                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                  80

                                  Mr G and H Alexander

                                  Augustus Casar

                                  18

                                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                  75

                                   

                                  108

                                  Mrs Broadway

                                  Benjamin Casar

                                  54

                                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                  10

                                   

                                  76

                                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                                  Celia Casar

                                  40

                                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                  40

                                   

                                  78

                                  Mr G and H Alexander

                                  Samuel Casar

                                  39

                                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                  Granted]

                                  90

                                   

                                   

                                  Colin Fox

                                   

                                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                  >
                                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                  >

                                  Paul,

                                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                  Very best regards,

                                  John Gardiner

                                   


                                • John Gardiner
                                  Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                     
                                    It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                    of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                    These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                    From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi John
                                    Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                    From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                     
                                    Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                     
                                    I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                     
                                    You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                     
                                    Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                     
                                    I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                     
                                    Very best regards,
                                     
                                    John 
                                     
                                    Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                    [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                    Contents:
                                    Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                     
                                    [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                    Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                    [See also 52394 A above]

                                    Contents:
                                    Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                        
                                     
                                     

                                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                    There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                    There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                     

                                    Best wishes

                                     

                                    Colin

                                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                    Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                     

                                    Colin,

                                     

                                    Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                     

                                    I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                     

                                    1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                     

                                    2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                     

                                    Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                     

                                    3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                     

                                    4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                     

                                    We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                     

                                    I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                     

                                    Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                     

                                    Very best regards,

                                     

                                    John      

                                     


                                    From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                     

                                    No

                                    Name of Proprietior

                                    Name of Slave

                                    Age

                                    Description

                                    Value

                                    Remarks

                                    648

                                    Mrs M Barnes

                                    Finny Caesar

                                    60

                                    Infirm

                                    1/-

                                     

                                    649

                                    ditto

                                    Caroline Caesar

                                    24

                                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                    25

                                     

                                    282

                                    Mrs Harper

                                    George Caesar

                                    68

                                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                    10

                                     

                                    620

                                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                    John Caesar

                                    25

                                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                    80

                                     

                                    622

                                    ditto

                                    Flora Caesar

                                    32

                                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                    20

                                     

                                    357

                                    Mr Greentree

                                    Margaret Caesar

                                    10

                                    Not yet employed

                                    15

                                     

                                    332

                                    Mrs Lester

                                    Mary Caesar

                                    30

                                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                    35

                                     

                                    785

                                    Mr Lambe

                                    Massie Caesar

                                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                                    26

                                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                    25

                                     

                                    351

                                    Mr Greentree

                                    Michael Caesar

                                    15

                                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                    60

                                     

                                    355

                                    ditto

                                    Sarah Caesar

                                    16

                                    House servant and nurse lent out

                                    30

                                     

                                    780

                                    Mr Lambe

                                    William Caesar

                                    44

                                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                     

                                    Not valued No 19

                                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                    80

                                    Mr G and H Alexander

                                    Augustus Casar

                                    18

                                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                    75

                                     

                                    108

                                    Mrs Broadway

                                    Benjamin Casar

                                    54

                                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                    10

                                     

                                    76

                                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                                    Celia Casar

                                    40

                                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                    40

                                     

                                    78

                                    Mr G and H Alexander

                                    Samuel Casar

                                    39

                                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                    Granted]

                                    90

                                     

                                     

                                    Colin Fox

                                     

                                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                     

                                     

                                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                    >
                                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                    >

                                    Paul,

                                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                    Very best regards,

                                    John Gardiner

                                     




                                  • foxhome
                                    Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                                      Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                                       

                                      Colin

                                       

                                      No

                                      Name of Proprietior

                                      Name of Slave

                                      Age

                                      Description

                                      Value £

                                      Remarks

                                      65

                                      Capt Broadway

                                      Jacob George

                                      43

                                      Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                                      65

                                       

                                      179

                                      Mr Darling

                                      James George

                                      9

                                      A house boy

                                      25

                                       

                                      180

                                      Mr Darling

                                      Peggy George

                                      22

                                      House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                                      30

                                       

                                      181

                                      Mr Darling

                                      John George

                                      20

                                      A good cook and very useful servant

                                      90

                                       

                                      183

                                      Mr Darling

                                      Jacob George

                                      17

                                      A good waiting servant

                                      70

                                       

                                      208

                                      Mr Dring

                                      Sarah George

                                      22

                                      Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                                       

                                      Not valued No 5

                                      246

                                      Mr Janisch

                                      Louisa George

                                      11

                                      Useful little girl

                                      20

                                       

                                      273

                                      Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                                      May George

                                      33

                                      A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                                      105

                                       

                                      277

                                      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                      John George

                                      37

                                      First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                                      105

                                       

                                      279

                                      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                      Frances George

                                      10

                                      Useful farm boy

                                      30

                                       

                                      281

                                      Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                      Nanny George

                                      36

                                      Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                                      20

                                       

                                      378

                                      Mr Mulhall

                                      Lucy George

                                      28

                                      Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                                      30

                                       

                                      379

                                      Mr Mulhall

                                      Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                                      13

                                      A very useful house girl

                                      30

                                       

                                      428

                                      Major D K Pritchard

                                      Charles George

                                      34

                                      A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                                      105

                                       

                                      429

                                      Mr H T Seale

                                      Jane George

                                      43

                                      Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                                      30

                                       

                                      433

                                      Dr Lorimer

                                      Martha George

                                      16

                                      Useful house servant good character

                                      30

                                       

                                      483

                                      Miss Mason

                                      Susan George

                                      24

                                      Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                                      20

                                       

                                      498

                                      Mr B Solomon

                                      Benj George

                                      10

                                      Useful houseboy

                                      35

                                       

                                      501

                                      Mr S Solomon

                                      Dolly George

                                      17

                                      Needlewoman and nurse

                                      25

                                       

                                      519

                                      Mr William Seale jun.

                                      Nancy George

                                      26

                                      Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                                      25

                                       

                                      525

                                      Major Seale

                                      Sally George

                                      22

                                      Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                                      40

                                       

                                      534

                                      Major Seale

                                      Ruth George

                                      18

                                      A good house servant

                                      30

                                       

                                      535

                                      Major Seale

                                      Martha George

                                      13

                                      A good house servant

                                      25

                                       

                                      541

                                      Major Seale

                                      James George

                                      32

                                      Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                                       

                                      Not valued No 11

                                      542

                                      Major Seale

                                      Benj George

                                      18

                                      Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                                       

                                      Not valued no 12

                                      543

                                      Major Seale

                                      Harry George

                                      21

                                      A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                                      110

                                       

                                      544

                                      Major Seale

                                      Cornelius George

                                      13

                                    • Shirley Morgan
                                      Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 17, 2010
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                                        Hi All

                                        I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                        (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                        assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                        not anything else.

                                        He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                        writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                        he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                        Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                        I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                        so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                        Many thanks in advance

                                        Shirley Morgan



                                        Shirley





                                        Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                                      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 18, 2010
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                                          Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                           
                                          It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                          of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                          These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi John
                                          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                           
                                          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                           
                                          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                           
                                          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                           
                                          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                           
                                          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                           
                                          Very best regards,
                                           
                                          John 
                                           
                                          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                          Contents:
                                          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                           
                                          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                          [See also 52394 A above]

                                          Contents:
                                          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                              
                                           
                                           

                                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                           

                                          Best wishes

                                           

                                          Colin

                                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                           

                                          Colin,

                                           

                                          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                           

                                          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                           

                                          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                           

                                          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                           

                                          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                           

                                          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                           

                                          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                           

                                          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                           

                                          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                           

                                          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                           

                                          Very best regards,

                                           

                                          John      

                                           


                                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                           

                                          No

                                          Name of Proprietior

                                          Name of Slave

                                          Age

                                          Description

                                          Value

                                          Remarks

                                          648

                                          Mrs M Barnes

                                          Finny Caesar

                                          60

                                          Infirm

                                          1/-

                                           

                                          649

                                          ditto

                                          Caroline Caesar

                                          24

                                          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                          25

                                           

                                          282

                                          Mrs Harper

                                          George Caesar

                                          68

                                          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                          10

                                           

                                          620

                                          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                          John Caesar

                                          25

                                          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                          80

                                           

                                          622

                                          ditto

                                          Flora Caesar

                                          32

                                          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                          20

                                           

                                          357

                                          Mr Greentree

                                          Margaret Caesar

                                          10

                                          Not yet employed

                                          15

                                           

                                          332

                                          Mrs Lester

                                          Mary Caesar

                                          30

                                          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                          35

                                           

                                          785

                                          Mr Lambe

                                          Massie Caesar

                                          (married to Wm Caesar)

                                          26

                                          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                          25

                                           

                                          351

                                          Mr Greentree

                                          Michael Caesar

                                          15

                                          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                          60

                                           

                                          355

                                          ditto

                                          Sarah Caesar

                                          16

                                          House servant and nurse lent out

                                          30

                                           

                                          780

                                          Mr Lambe

                                          William Caesar

                                          44

                                          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                           

                                          Not valued No 19

                                          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                          80

                                          Mr G and H Alexander

                                          Augustus Casar

                                          18

                                          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                          75

                                           

                                          108

                                          Mrs Broadway

                                          Benjamin Casar

                                          54

                                          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                          10

                                           

                                          76

                                          Sergt Carolans Estate

                                          Celia Casar

                                          40

                                          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                          40

                                           

                                          78

                                          Mr G and H Alexander

                                          Samuel Casar

                                          39

                                          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                          Granted]

                                          90

                                           

                                           

                                          Colin Fox

                                           

                                          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                           

                                          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                          >
                                          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                          >

                                          Paul,

                                          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                          Very best regards,

                                          John Gardiner

                                           





                                        • John Gardiner
                                          Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                            From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                             
                                            It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                            of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                            These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                            From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Hi John
                                            Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                             
                                            Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                             
                                            I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                             
                                            You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                             
                                            Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                             
                                            I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                             
                                            Very best regards,
                                             
                                            John 
                                             
                                            Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                            [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                            Contents:
                                            Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                             
                                            [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                            Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                            [See also 52394 A above]

                                            Contents:
                                            Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                
                                             
                                             

                                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                            There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                            There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                             

                                            Best wishes

                                             

                                            Colin

                                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                            Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                             

                                            Colin,

                                             

                                            Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                             

                                            I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                             

                                            1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                             

                                            2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                             

                                            Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                             

                                            3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                             

                                            4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                             

                                            We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                             

                                            I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                             

                                            Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                             

                                            Very best regards,

                                             

                                            John      

                                             


                                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                             

                                            No

                                            Name of Proprietior

                                            Name of Slave

                                            Age

                                            Description

                                            Value

                                            Remarks

                                            648

                                            Mrs M Barnes

                                            Finny Caesar

                                            60

                                            Infirm

                                            1/-

                                             

                                            649

                                            ditto

                                            Caroline Caesar

                                            24

                                            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                            25

                                             

                                            282

                                            Mrs Harper

                                            George Caesar

                                            68

                                            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                            10

                                             

                                            620

                                            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                            John Caesar

                                            25

                                            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                            80

                                             

                                            622

                                            ditto

                                            Flora Caesar

                                            32

                                            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                            20

                                             

                                            357

                                            Mr Greentree

                                            Margaret Caesar

                                            10

                                            Not yet employed

                                            15

                                             

                                            332

                                            Mrs Lester

                                            Mary Caesar

                                            30

                                            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                            35

                                             

                                            785

                                            Mr Lambe

                                            Massie Caesar

                                            (married to Wm Caesar)

                                            26

                                            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                            25

                                             

                                            351

                                            Mr Greentree

                                            Michael Caesar

                                            15

                                            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                            60

                                             

                                            355

                                            ditto

                                            Sarah Caesar

                                            16

                                            House servant and nurse lent out

                                            30

                                             

                                            780

                                            Mr Lambe

                                            William Caesar

                                            44

                                            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                             

                                            Not valued No 19

                                            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                            80

                                            Mr G and H Alexander

                                            Augustus Casar

                                            18

                                            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                            75

                                             

                                            108

                                            Mrs Broadway

                                            Benjamin Casar

                                            54

                                            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                            10

                                             

                                            76

                                            Sergt Carolans Estate

                                            Celia Casar

                                            40

                                            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                            40

                                             

                                            78

                                            Mr G and H Alexander

                                            Samuel Casar

                                            39

                                            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                            Granted]

                                            90

                                             

                                             

                                            Colin Fox

                                             

                                            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                             

                                            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                            >
                                            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                            >

                                            Paul,

                                            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                            Very best regards,

                                            John Gardiner

                                             






                                          • Arabella George
                                            Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 19, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Nancy-Jo
                                              I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                                              Regards 

                                              Bella George

                                              Sent from my iPhone

                                              On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                                               

                                              Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                               
                                              It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                              of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                              These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                              From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Hi John
                                              Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                              From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                               
                                              Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                               
                                              I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                               
                                              You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                               
                                              Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                               
                                              I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                               
                                              Very best regards,
                                               
                                              John 
                                               
                                              Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                              [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                              Contents:
                                              Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                               
                                              [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                              Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                              [See also 52394 A above]

                                              Contents:
                                              Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                  
                                               
                                               

                                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                              There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                              There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                               

                                              Best wishes

                                               

                                              Colin

                                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                              Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                               

                                              Colin,

                                               

                                              Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                               

                                              I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                               

                                              1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                               

                                              2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                               

                                              Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                               

                                              3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                               

                                              4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                               

                                              We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                               

                                              I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                               

                                              Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                               

                                              Very best regards,

                                               

                                              John      

                                               


                                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                               

                                              No

                                              Name of Proprietior

                                              Name of Slave

                                              Age

                                              Description

                                              Value

                                              Remarks

                                              648

                                              Mrs M Barnes

                                              Finny Caesar

                                              60

                                              Infirm

                                              1/-

                                               

                                              649

                                              ditto

                                              Caroline Caesar

                                              24

                                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                              25

                                               

                                              282

                                              Mrs Harper

                                              George Caesar

                                              68

                                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                              10

                                               

                                              620

                                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                              John Caesar

                                              25

                                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                              80

                                               

                                              622

                                              ditto

                                              Flora Caesar

                                              32

                                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                              20

                                               

                                              357

                                              Mr Greentree

                                              Margaret Caesar

                                              10

                                              Not yet employed

                                              15

                                               

                                              332

                                              Mrs Lester

                                              Mary Caesar

                                              30

                                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                              35

                                               

                                              785

                                              Mr Lambe

                                              Massie Caesar

                                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                                              26

                                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                              25

                                               

                                              351

                                              Mr Greentree

                                              Michael Caesar

                                              15

                                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                              60

                                               

                                              355

                                              ditto

                                              Sarah Caesar

                                              16

                                              House servant and nurse lent out

                                              30

                                               

                                              780

                                              Mr Lambe

                                              William Caesar

                                              44

                                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                               

                                              Not valued No 19

                                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                              80

                                              Mr G and H Alexander

                                              Augustus Casar

                                              18

                                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                              75

                                               

                                              108

                                              Mrs Broadway

                                              Benjamin Casar

                                              54

                                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                              10

                                               

                                              76

                                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                                              Celia Casar

                                              40

                                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                              40

                                               

                                              78

                                              Mr G and H Alexander

                                              Samuel Casar

                                              39

                                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                              Granted]

                                              90

                                               

                                               

                                              Colin Fox

                                               

                                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                               

                                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                              >
                                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                              >

                                              Paul,

                                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                              Very best regards,

                                              John Gardiner

                                               






                                            • Shirley Morgan
                                              I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 20, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                                (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                                                 
                                                Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                                                Shirley


                                                 

                                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                                From: shirleymorgan967@...
                                                Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                                                 

                                                 
                                                Hi All

                                                I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                                (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                                assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                                not anything else.

                                                He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                                writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                                he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                                Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                                I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                                so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                                Many thanks in advance

                                                Shirley Morgan



                                                Shirley





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