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Gardner, Timms & Caesar

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  • pd91223
    Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 7, 2009
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      Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.

      Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
    • gardiner.john@rocketmail.com
      ... Paul, Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I m a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 7, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
        >
        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
        >
        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
        >

        Paul,

        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

        Very best regards,

        John Gardiner
      • Paul Clarke
        Thanks, John. Personally I m not related. I m researching on behalf of a family friend and her mother who are related through William Richard Gardner,
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 7, 2009
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          Thanks, John.

          Personally I'm not related.  I'm researching on behalf of a family friend and her mother who are related through William Richard Gardner, Samuel's oldest son, born in St Helena ~1852.

          I'm sure they'd be interested in anything you can send through.  Please use pd91223@...

          Best regards


          From: "gardiner.john@..." <gardiner.john@...>
          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 15:18:18
          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

           

          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@... > wrote:
          >
          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
          >
          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
          >

          Paul,

          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857.. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too..

          Very best regards,

          John Gardiner



        • gardiner.john@rocketmail.com
          Paul, I m only getting your email address up to the @ sign. Can you please post your full email address, or email me direct at gardiner.john@rocketmail.com
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 7, 2009
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            Paul,

            I'm only getting your email address up to the "@" sign. Can you please post your full email address, or email me direct at gardiner.john@... and I'll send you what I have.

            Best regards,

            John


            --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Paul Clarke <pd91223@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks, John.
            >
            > Personally I'm not related. I'm researching on behalf of a family friend and her mother who are related through William Richard Gardner, Samuel's oldest son, born in St Helena ~1852.
            >
            > I'm sure they'd be interested in anything you can send through. Please use pd91223@...
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: "gardiner.john@..." <gardiner.john@...>
            > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 15:18:18
            > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
            >
            >
            > --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
            > >
            > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
            > >
            >
            > Paul,
            >
            > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
            >
            > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.
            >
            > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
            >
            > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.
            >
            > Very best regards,
            >
            > John Gardiner
            >
          • John Gardiner
            Sorry to fill up your inbox but hope the documents are useful. Best regards, John ________________________________ From: Paul Clarke To:
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 7, 2009
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              Sorry to fill up your inbox but hope the documents are useful.
               
              Best regards,
               
              John


              From: Paul Clarke <pd91223@...>
              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 16:53:46
              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              Thanks, John.

              Personally I'm not related.  I'm researching on behalf of a family friend and her mother who are related through William Richard Gardner, Samuel's oldest son, born in St Helena ~1852.

              I'm sure they'd be interested in anything you can send through.  Please use pd91223@yahoo. co.uk

              Best regards


              From: "gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com" <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 15:18:18
              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

               

              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@... > wrote:
              >
              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
              >
              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
              >

              Paul,

              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857.. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too..

              Very best regards,

              John Gardiner




            • foxhome
              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 13 7:22 AM
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                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh.org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                 

                No

                Name of Proprietior

                Name of Slave

                Age

                Description

                Value

                Remarks

                648

                Mrs M Barnes

                Finny Caesar

                60

                Infirm

                1/-

                 

                649

                ditto

                Caroline Caesar

                24

                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                25

                 

                282

                Mrs Harper

                George Caesar

                68

                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                10

                 

                620

                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                John Caesar

                25

                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                80

                 

                622

                ditto

                Flora Caesar

                32

                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                20

                 

                357

                Mr Greentree

                Margaret Caesar

                10

                Not yet employed

                15

                 

                332

                Mrs Lester

                Mary Caesar

                30

                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                35

                 

                785

                Mr Lambe

                Massie Caesar

                (married to Wm Caesar)

                26

                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                25

                 

                351

                Mr Greentree

                Michael Caesar

                15

                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                60

                 

                355

                ditto

                Sarah Caesar

                16

                House servant and nurse lent out

                30

                 

                780

                Mr Lambe

                William Caesar

                44

                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                 

                Not valued No 19

                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                80

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Augustus Casar

                18

                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                75

                 

                108

                Mrs Broadway

                Benjamin Casar

                54

                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                10

                 

                76

                Sergt Carolans Estate

                Celia Casar

                40

                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                40

                 

                78

                Mr G and H Alexander

                Samuel Casar

                39

                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                Granted]

                90

                 

                 

                Colin Fox

                 

                http://www.thebennettletters.com/

                 

                 

                 

                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@...
                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                 

                 

                --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:

                >
                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                >
                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                >

                Paul,

                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                Very best regards,

                John Gardiner

              • Mary King
                Many thanks for this it might shed some light on other Caesars within our family kinds regards Mary ... From: foxhome Subject: RE:
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 13 9:30 AM
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                  Many thanks for this it might shed some light on other Caesars within our family kinds regards Mary

                  --- On Sun, 13/6/10, foxhome <colin@...> wrote:

                  From: foxhome <colin@...>
                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 14:22

                   

                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                   

                  No

                  Name of Proprietior

                  Name of Slave

                  Age

                  Description

                  Value

                  Remarks

                  648

                  Mrs M Barnes

                  Finny Caesar

                  60

                  Infirm

                  1/-

                   

                  649

                  ditto

                  Caroline Caesar

                  24

                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                  25

                   

                  282

                  Mrs Harper

                  George Caesar

                  68

                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                  10

                   

                  620

                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                  John Caesar

                  25

                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                  80

                   

                  622

                  ditto

                  Flora Caesar

                  32

                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                  20

                   

                  357

                  Mr Greentree

                  Margaret Caesar

                  10

                  Not yet employed

                  15

                   

                  332

                  Mrs Lester

                  Mary Caesar

                  30

                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                  35

                   

                  785

                  Mr Lambe

                  Massie Caesar

                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                  26

                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                  25

                   

                  351

                  Mr Greentree

                  Michael Caesar

                  15

                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                  60

                   

                  355

                  ditto

                  Sarah Caesar

                  16

                  House servant and nurse lent out

                  30

                   

                  780

                  Mr Lambe

                  William Caesar

                  44

                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                   

                  Not valued No 19

                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                  80

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Augustus Casar

                  18

                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                  75

                   

                  108

                  Mrs Broadway

                  Benjamin Casar

                  54

                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                  10

                   

                  76

                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                  Celia Casar

                  40

                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                  40

                   

                  78

                  Mr G and H Alexander

                  Samuel Casar

                  39

                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                  Granted]

                  90

                   

                   

                  Colin Fox

                   

                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                   

                   

                   

                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                   

                   

                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                  >
                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                  >

                  Paul,

                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                  Very best regards,

                  John Gardiner


                • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                  Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well. ________________________________ From: foxhome To:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 13 11:01 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                    From: foxhome <colin@...>
                    To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                    Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                    Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                    For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                     

                    No

                    Name of Proprietior

                    Name of Slave

                    Age

                    Description

                    Value

                    Remarks

                    648

                    Mrs M Barnes

                    Finny Caesar

                    60

                    Infirm

                    1/-

                     

                    649

                    ditto

                    Caroline Caesar

                    24

                    Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                    25

                     

                    282

                    Mrs Harper

                    George Caesar

                    68

                    A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                    10

                     

                    620

                    Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                    John Caesar

                    25

                    Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                    80

                     

                    622

                    ditto

                    Flora Caesar

                    32

                    A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                    20

                     

                    357

                    Mr Greentree

                    Margaret Caesar

                    10

                    Not yet employed

                    15

                     

                    332

                    Mrs Lester

                    Mary Caesar

                    30

                    House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                    35

                     

                    785

                    Mr Lambe

                    Massie Caesar

                    (married to Wm Caesar)

                    26

                    Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                    25

                     

                    351

                    Mr Greentree

                    Michael Caesar

                    15

                    Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                    60

                     

                    355

                    ditto

                    Sarah Caesar

                    16

                    House servant and nurse lent out

                    30

                     

                    780

                    Mr Lambe

                    William Caesar

                    44

                    Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                    (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                     

                    Not valued No 19

                    Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                    80

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Augustus Casar

                    18

                    Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                    75

                     

                    108

                    Mrs Broadway

                    Benjamin Casar

                    54

                    Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                    10

                     

                    76

                    Sergt Carolans Estate

                    Celia Casar

                    40

                    A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                    40

                     

                    78

                    Mr G and H Alexander

                    Samuel Casar

                    39

                    Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                    [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                    …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                    6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                    Granted]

                    90

                     

                     

                    Colin Fox

                     

                    http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                     

                     

                     

                    From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                    Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                    To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                     

                     

                    --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                    >
                    > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                    >

                    Paul,

                    Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                    If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                    I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                    You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                    Very best regards,

                    John Gardiner


                  • A. Russ
                    Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott? Regards, Alan ... From: Nancy-Jo Nunez To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 13 11:24 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      
                      Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?
                      Regards,
                      Alan
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM
                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                       

                      No

                      Name of Proprietior

                      Name of Slave

                      Age

                      Description

                      Value

                      Remarks

                      648

                      Mrs M Barnes

                      Finny Caesar

                      60

                      Infirm

                      1/-

                       

                      649

                      ditto

                      Caroline Caesar

                      24

                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                      25

                       

                      282

                      Mrs Harper

                      George Caesar

                      68

                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                      10

                       

                      620

                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                      John Caesar

                      25

                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                      80

                       

                      622

                      ditto

                      Flora Caesar

                      32

                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                      20

                       

                      357

                      Mr Greentree

                      Margaret Caesar

                      10

                      Not yet employed

                      15

                       

                      332

                      Mrs Lester

                      Mary Caesar

                      30

                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                      35

                       

                      785

                      Mr Lambe

                      Massie Caesar

                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                      26

                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                      25

                       

                      351

                      Mr Greentree

                      Michael Caesar

                      15

                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                      60

                       

                      355

                      ditto

                      Sarah Caesar

                      16

                      House servant and nurse lent out

                      30

                       

                      780

                      Mr Lambe

                      William Caesar

                      44

                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                       

                      Not valued No 19

                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                      80

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Augustus Casar

                      18

                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                      75

                       

                      108

                      Mrs Broadway

                      Benjamin Casar

                      54

                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                      10

                       

                      76

                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                      Celia Casar

                      40

                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                      40

                       

                      78

                      Mr G and H Alexander

                      Samuel Casar

                      39

                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                      Granted]

                      90

                       

                       

                      Colin Fox

                       

                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                       

                       

                       

                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                       

                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                      >
                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                      >

                      Paul,

                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                      Very best regards,

                      John Gardiner


                    • John Gardiner
                      Colin, Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 13 1:52 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Colin,
                         
                        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 
                         
                        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  
                         
                        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.
                         
                        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  
                         
                        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  
                         
                        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 
                         
                        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.
                         
                        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 
                         
                        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.
                         
                        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.
                         
                        Very best regards,
                         
                        John      


                        From: foxhome <colin@...>
                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                         

                        No

                        Name of Proprietior

                        Name of Slave

                        Age

                        Description

                        Value

                        Remarks

                        648

                        Mrs M Barnes

                        Finny Caesar

                        60

                        Infirm

                        1/-

                         

                        649

                        ditto

                        Caroline Caesar

                        24

                        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                        25

                         

                        282

                        Mrs Harper

                        George Caesar

                        68

                        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                        10

                         

                        620

                        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                        John Caesar

                        25

                        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                        80

                         

                        622

                        ditto

                        Flora Caesar

                        32

                        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                        20

                         

                        357

                        Mr Greentree

                        Margaret Caesar

                        10

                        Not yet employed

                        15

                         

                        332

                        Mrs Lester

                        Mary Caesar

                        30

                        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                        35

                         

                        785

                        Mr Lambe

                        Massie Caesar

                        (married to Wm Caesar)

                        26

                        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                        25

                         

                        351

                        Mr Greentree

                        Michael Caesar

                        15

                        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                        60

                         

                        355

                        ditto

                        Sarah Caesar

                        16

                        House servant and nurse lent out

                        30

                         

                        780

                        Mr Lambe

                        William Caesar

                        44

                        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                         

                        Not valued No 19

                        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                        80

                        Mr G and H Alexander

                        Augustus Casar

                        18

                        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                        75

                         

                        108

                        Mrs Broadway

                        Benjamin Casar

                        54

                        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                        10

                         

                        76

                        Sergt Carolans Estate

                        Celia Casar

                        40

                        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                        40

                         

                        78

                        Mr G and H Alexander

                        Samuel Casar

                        39

                        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                        Granted]

                        90

                         

                         

                        Colin Fox

                         

                        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                         

                         

                         

                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                         

                         

                        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                        >
                        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                        >

                        Paul,

                        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                        Very best regards,

                        John Gardiner


                      • foxhome
                        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264. In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 14 2:27 AM
                        • 0 Attachment

                          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                           

                          Best wishes

                           

                          Colin

                          From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                           

                          Colin,

                           

                          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/50880? 

                           

                          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                           

                          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                           

                          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                           

                          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                           

                          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                           

                          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                           

                          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                           

                          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                           

                          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                           

                          Very best regards,

                           

                          John      

                           


                          From: foxhome <colin@...>
                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                           

                          No

                          Name of Proprietior

                          Name of Slave

                          Age

                          Description

                          Value

                          Remarks

                          648

                          Mrs M Barnes

                          Finny Caesar

                          60

                          Infirm

                          1/-

                           

                          649

                          ditto

                          Caroline Caesar

                          24

                          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                          25

                           

                          282

                          Mrs Harper

                          George Caesar

                          68

                          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                          10

                           

                          620

                          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                          John Caesar

                          25

                          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                          80

                           

                          622

                          ditto

                          Flora Caesar

                          32

                          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                          20

                           

                          357

                          Mr Greentree

                          Margaret Caesar

                          10

                          Not yet employed

                          15

                           

                          332

                          Mrs Lester

                          Mary Caesar

                          30

                          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                          35

                           

                          785

                          Mr Lambe

                          Massie Caesar

                          (married to Wm Caesar)

                          26

                          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                          25

                           

                          351

                          Mr Greentree

                          Michael Caesar

                          15

                          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                          60

                           

                          355

                          ditto

                          Sarah Caesar

                          16

                          House servant and nurse lent out

                          30

                           

                          780

                          Mr Lambe

                          William Caesar

                          44

                          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                           

                          Not valued No 19

                          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                          80

                          Mr G and H Alexander

                          Augustus Casar

                          18

                          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                          75

                           

                          108

                          Mrs Broadway

                          Benjamin Casar

                          54

                          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                          10

                           

                          76

                          Sergt Carolans Estate

                          Celia Casar

                          40

                          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                          40

                           

                          78

                          Mr G and H Alexander

                          Samuel Casar

                          39

                          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                          Granted]

                          90

                           

                           

                          Colin Fox

                           

                          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                           

                           

                           

                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                           

                           

                          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                          from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                          >
                          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                          details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                          >

                          Paul,

                          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                          Very best regards,

                          John Gardiner

                           

                        • foxhome
                          Alan, Not much but the name does appear. Regards Colin No Name of Proprietior Name of Slave Age Description Value Remarks 333 Mrs Lester Elizabeth Scott 12
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 14 2:34 AM
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                            Regards

                             

                            Colin

                             

                             

                            No

                            Name of Proprietior

                            Name of Slave

                            Age

                            Description

                            Value

                            Remarks

                            333

                             

                            Mrs Lester

                            Elizabeth Scott

                            12

                            Useful handy girl

                            20

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                            Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            

                            Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                            Regards,

                            Alan

                             

                             

                            ----- Original Message -----

                            Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                             

                            Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                             


                            From: foxhome <colin@...>
                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                             

                            No

                            Name of Proprietior

                            Name of Slave

                            Age

                            Description

                            Value

                            Remarks

                            648

                            Mrs M Barnes

                            Finny Caesar

                            60

                            Infirm

                            1/-

                             

                            649

                            ditto

                            Caroline Caesar

                            24

                            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                            25

                             

                            282

                            Mrs Harper

                            George Caesar

                            68

                            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                            10

                             

                            620

                            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                            John Caesar

                            25

                            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                            80

                             

                            622

                            ditto

                            Flora Caesar

                            32

                            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                            20

                             

                            357

                            Mr Greentree

                            Margaret Caesar

                            10

                            Not yet employed

                            15

                             

                            332

                            Mrs Lester

                            Mary Caesar

                            30

                            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                            35

                             

                            785

                            Mr Lambe

                            Massie Caesar

                            (married to Wm Caesar)

                            26

                            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                            25

                             

                            351

                            Mr Greentree

                            Michael Caesar

                            15

                            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                            60

                             

                            355

                            ditto

                            Sarah Caesar

                            16

                            House servant and nurse lent out

                            30

                             

                            780

                            Mr Lambe

                            William Caesar

                            44

                            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                             

                            Not valued No 19

                            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                            80

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Augustus Casar

                            18

                            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                            75

                             

                            108

                            Mrs Broadway

                            Benjamin Casar

                            54

                            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                            10

                             

                            76

                            Sergt Carolans Estate

                            Celia Casar

                            40

                            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                            40

                             

                            78

                            Mr G and H Alexander

                            Samuel Casar

                            39

                            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                            Granted]

                            90

                             

                             

                            Colin Fox

                             

                            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                             

                             

                             

                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                             

                            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                            >
                            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                            >

                            Paul,

                            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                            Very best regards,

                            John Gardiner

                             

                          • A. Russ
                            Thanks, Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920. ... From: foxhome To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 14 2:37 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              
                              Thanks,
                              Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: foxhome
                              Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                              Regards

                              Colin

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              333

                              Mrs Lester

                              Elizabeth Scott

                              12

                              Useful handy girl

                              20

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                              Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              

                              Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                              Regards,

                              Alan

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                               

                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                              No

                              Name of Proprietior

                              Name of Slave

                              Age

                              Description

                              Value

                              Remarks

                              648

                              Mrs M Barnes

                              Finny Caesar

                              60

                              Infirm

                              1/-

                              649

                              ditto

                              Caroline Caesar

                              24

                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                              25

                              282

                              Mrs Harper

                              George Caesar

                              68

                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                              10

                              620

                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                              John Caesar

                              25

                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                              80

                              622

                              ditto

                              Flora Caesar

                              32

                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                              20

                              357

                              Mr Greentree

                              Margaret Caesar

                              10

                              Not yet employed

                              15

                              332

                              Mrs Lester

                              Mary Caesar

                              30

                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                              35

                              785

                              Mr Lambe

                              Massie Caesar

                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                              26

                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                              25

                              351

                              Mr Greentree

                              Michael Caesar

                              15

                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                              60

                              355

                              ditto

                              Sarah Caesar

                              16

                              House servant and nurse lent out

                              30

                              780

                              Mr Lambe

                              William Caesar

                              44

                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                              Not valued No 19

                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                              80

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Augustus Casar

                              18

                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                              75

                              108

                              Mrs Broadway

                              Benjamin Casar

                              54

                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                              10

                              76

                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                              Celia Casar

                              40

                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                              40

                              78

                              Mr G and H Alexander

                              Samuel Casar

                              39

                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                              Granted]

                              90

                              Colin Fox

                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                              >
                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                              >

                              Paul,

                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                              Very best regards,

                              John Gardiner

                            • foxhome
                              Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person. Colin From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 14 2:44 AM
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Alan, The doc dates to Sep 1827 so she can’t be the same person.

                                 

                                Colin

                                 

                                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                                Sent: 14 June 2010 10:38
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                

                                Thanks,

                                Can you date this document? My Grandfather married Elizabeth Scott in ~ 1920.

                                 

                                 

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: foxhome

                                Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:34 AM

                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                 

                                Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                                Regards

                                Colin

                                No

                                Name of Proprietior

                                Name of Slave

                                Age

                                Description

                                Value

                                Remarks

                                333

                                Mrs Lester

                                Elizabeth Scott

                                12

                                Useful handy girl

                                20

                                From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                                Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                

                                Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                                Regards,

                                Alan

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.


                                From: foxhome <colin@...>
                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                 

                                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                No

                                Name of Proprietior

                                Name of Slave

                                Age

                                Description

                                Value

                                Remarks

                                648

                                Mrs M Barnes

                                Finny Caesar

                                60

                                Infirm

                                1/-

                                649

                                ditto

                                Caroline Caesar

                                24

                                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                25

                                282

                                Mrs Harper

                                George Caesar

                                68

                                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                10

                                620

                                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                John Caesar

                                25

                                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                80

                                622

                                ditto

                                Flora Caesar

                                32

                                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                20

                                357

                                Mr Greentree

                                Margaret Caesar

                                10

                                Not yet employed

                                15

                                332

                                Mrs Lester

                                Mary Caesar

                                30

                                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                35

                                785

                                Mr Lambe

                                Massie Caesar

                                (married to Wm Caesar)

                                26

                                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                25

                                351

                                Mr Greentree

                                Michael Caesar

                                15

                                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                60

                                355

                                ditto

                                Sarah Caesar

                                16

                                House servant and nurse lent out

                                30

                                780

                                Mr Lambe

                                William Caesar

                                44

                                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                Not valued No 19

                                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                80

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Augustus Casar

                                18

                                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                75

                                108

                                Mrs Broadway

                                Benjamin Casar

                                54

                                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                10

                                76

                                Sergt Carolans Estate

                                Celia Casar

                                40

                                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                40

                                78

                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                Samuel Casar

                                39

                                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                Granted]

                                90

                                Colin Fox

                                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                >
                                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                >

                                Paul,

                                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                Very best regards,

                                John Gardiner

                              • John Gardiner
                                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes -  We ll give you your freedom, but only after you ve taken out an HP agreement on yourself!  
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 14 7:48 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                   
                                  Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                   
                                  I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                   
                                  You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                   
                                  Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                   
                                  I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                   
                                  Very best regards,
                                   
                                  John 
                                   
                                  Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                  [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                  Contents:
                                  Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                   
                                  [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                  Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                  [See also 52394 A above]

                                  Contents:
                                  Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                      
                                   
                                   

                                  From: foxhome <colin@...>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                  There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                  There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                   

                                  Best wishes

                                   

                                  Colin

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                  Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                   

                                  Colin,

                                   

                                  Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                   

                                  I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                   

                                  1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                   

                                  2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                   

                                  Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                   

                                  3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                   

                                  4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                   

                                  We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                   

                                  I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                   

                                  Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                   

                                  Very best regards,

                                   

                                  John      

                                   


                                  From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                  Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                  Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                  For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                   

                                  No

                                  Name of Proprietior

                                  Name of Slave

                                  Age

                                  Description

                                  Value

                                  Remarks

                                  648

                                  Mrs M Barnes

                                  Finny Caesar

                                  60

                                  Infirm

                                  1/-

                                   

                                  649

                                  ditto

                                  Caroline Caesar

                                  24

                                  Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                  25

                                   

                                  282

                                  Mrs Harper

                                  George Caesar

                                  68

                                  A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                  10

                                   

                                  620

                                  Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                  John Caesar

                                  25

                                  Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                  80

                                   

                                  622

                                  ditto

                                  Flora Caesar

                                  32

                                  A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                  20

                                   

                                  357

                                  Mr Greentree

                                  Margaret Caesar

                                  10

                                  Not yet employed

                                  15

                                   

                                  332

                                  Mrs Lester

                                  Mary Caesar

                                  30

                                  House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                  35

                                   

                                  785

                                  Mr Lambe

                                  Massie Caesar

                                  (married to Wm Caesar)

                                  26

                                  Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                  25

                                   

                                  351

                                  Mr Greentree

                                  Michael Caesar

                                  15

                                  Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                  60

                                   

                                  355

                                  ditto

                                  Sarah Caesar

                                  16

                                  House servant and nurse lent out

                                  30

                                   

                                  780

                                  Mr Lambe

                                  William Caesar

                                  44

                                  Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                  (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                   

                                  Not valued No 19

                                  Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                  80

                                  Mr G and H Alexander

                                  Augustus Casar

                                  18

                                  Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                  75

                                   

                                  108

                                  Mrs Broadway

                                  Benjamin Casar

                                  54

                                  Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                  10

                                   

                                  76

                                  Sergt Carolans Estate

                                  Celia Casar

                                  40

                                  A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                  40

                                   

                                  78

                                  Mr G and H Alexander

                                  Samuel Casar

                                  39

                                  Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                  [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                  …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                  6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                  Granted]

                                  90

                                   

                                   

                                  Colin Fox

                                   

                                  http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                  Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                  To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                   

                                   

                                  --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                  >
                                  > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                  >

                                  Paul,

                                  Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                  If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                  I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                  You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                  Very best regards,

                                  John Gardiner

                                   


                                • judith.armstrong77
                                  Hi John (or anyone out their) I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 15 9:07 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi John (or anyone out their)

                                    I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                                    All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                                    I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                                    It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                                    Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                                    Judith Armstrong
                                    Elwood Australia


                                    --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                                    > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                                    > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                                    > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                                    > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                                    > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                                    > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                                    >
                                    > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                                    > to be a member of.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No
                                    >
                                    > Name of Proprietior
                                    >
                                    > Name of Slave
                                    >
                                    > Age
                                    >
                                    > Description
                                    >
                                    > Value
                                    >
                                    > Remarks
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 648
                                    >
                                    > Mrs M Barnes
                                    >
                                    > Finny Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 60
                                    >
                                    > Infirm
                                    >
                                    > 1/-
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 649
                                    >
                                    > ditto
                                    >
                                    > Caroline Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 24
                                    >
                                    > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                                    >
                                    > 25
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 282
                                    >
                                    > Mrs Harper
                                    >
                                    > George Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 68
                                    >
                                    > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                                    >
                                    > 10
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 620
                                    >
                                    > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                                    >
                                    > John Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 25
                                    >
                                    > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                                    >
                                    > 80
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 622
                                    >
                                    > ditto
                                    >
                                    > Flora Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 32
                                    >
                                    > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                                    > servant unmarried
                                    >
                                    > 20
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 357
                                    >
                                    > Mr Greentree
                                    >
                                    > Margaret Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 10
                                    >
                                    > Not yet employed
                                    >
                                    > 15
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 332
                                    >
                                    > Mrs Lester
                                    >
                                    > Mary Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 30
                                    >
                                    > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                                    >
                                    > 35
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 785
                                    >
                                    > Mr Lambe
                                    >
                                    > Massie Caesar
                                    >
                                    > (married to Wm Caesar)
                                    >
                                    > 26
                                    >
                                    > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                                    >
                                    > 25
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 351
                                    >
                                    > Mr Greentree
                                    >
                                    > Michael Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 15
                                    >
                                    > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                                    >
                                    > 60
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 355
                                    >
                                    > ditto
                                    >
                                    > Sarah Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 16
                                    >
                                    > House servant and nurse lent out
                                    >
                                    > 30
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 780
                                    >
                                    > Mr Lambe
                                    >
                                    > William Caesar
                                    >
                                    > 44
                                    >
                                    > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                                    > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                                    > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                                    >
                                    > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                                    > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                                    > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                                    > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                                    > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                                    > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                                    > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                                    > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                                    > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                                    > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                                    > has been laid to his charge
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Not valued No 19
                                    >
                                    > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                                    > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                                    > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                                    > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                                    > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 80
                                    >
                                    > Mr G and H Alexander
                                    >
                                    > Augustus Casar
                                    >
                                    > 18
                                    >
                                    > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                                    >
                                    > 75
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 108
                                    >
                                    > Mrs Broadway
                                    >
                                    > Benjamin Casar
                                    >
                                    > 54
                                    >
                                    > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                                    >
                                    > 10
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 76
                                    >
                                    > Sergt Carolans Estate
                                    >
                                    > Celia Casar
                                    >
                                    > 40
                                    >
                                    > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                                    >
                                    > 40
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 78
                                    >
                                    > Mr G and H Alexander
                                    >
                                    > Samuel Casar
                                    >
                                    > 39
                                    >
                                    > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                                    > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                                    >
                                    > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                                    >
                                    > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                                    > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                                    > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                                    > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                                    > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                                    > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                                    > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                                    > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                                    > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                                    >
                                    > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                                    >
                                    > Granted]
                                    >
                                    > 90
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Colin Fox
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    > gardiner.john@...
                                    > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                    > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                                    > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                                    > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                                    > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                                    > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                    > >
                                    > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                                    > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > Paul,
                                    >
                                    > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                                    > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                                    > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                                    > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                                    > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                                    >
                                    > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                                    > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                                    > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                                    > was Louisa's father.
                                    >
                                    > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                                    > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                                    > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                                    > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                                    > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                                    >
                                    > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                                    > too.
                                    >
                                    > Very best regards,
                                    >
                                    > John Gardiner
                                    >
                                  • John Gardiner
                                    Hello, Judith. I m sorry, I ve only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you. Keep perservering.  I m
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 16 11:44 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello, Judith.
                                       
                                      I'm sorry, I've only been looking at the Caesars/Casars on the island.  I hope someone else in the group can help you.
                                       
                                      Keep perservering.  I'm sure more information will turn up.
                                       
                                      Very best regards,
                                       
                                      John


                                      From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 6:07:46
                                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                       

                                      Hi John (or anyone out their)

                                      I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                                      All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                                      I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                                      It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                                      Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                                      Judith Armstrong
                                      Elwood Australia

                                      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                                      > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                                      > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                                      > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                                      > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                                      > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                                      > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                                      >
                                      > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                                      > to be a member
                                      of.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > No
                                      >
                                      > Name of Proprietior
                                      >
                                      > Name of Slave
                                      >
                                      > Age
                                      >
                                      > Description
                                      >
                                      > Value
                                      >
                                      > Remarks
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 648
                                      >
                                      > Mrs M Barnes
                                      >
                                      > Finny Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 60
                                      >
                                      > Infirm
                                      >
                                      > 1/-
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 649
                                      >
                                      > ditto
                                      >
                                      > Caroline Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 24
                                      >
                                      > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                                      >
                                      > 25
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 282
                                      >
                                      > Mrs Harper
                                      >
                                      > George Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 68
                                      >
                                      > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                                      >
                                      > 10
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 620
                                      >
                                      > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                                      >
                                      > John Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 25
                                      >
                                      >
                                      Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                                      >
                                      > 80
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 622
                                      >
                                      > ditto
                                      >
                                      > Flora Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 32
                                      >
                                      > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                                      > servant unmarried
                                      >
                                      > 20
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 357
                                      >
                                      > Mr Greentree
                                      >
                                      > Margaret Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 10
                                      >
                                      > Not yet employed
                                      >
                                      > 15
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 332
                                      >
                                      > Mrs Lester
                                      >
                                      > Mary Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 30
                                      >
                                      > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                                      >
                                      > 35
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 785
                                      >
                                      > Mr Lambe
                                      >
                                      > Massie Caesar
                                      >
                                      > (married to Wm Caesar)
                                      >
                                      > 26
                                      >
                                      > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children
                                      youngest 3 years
                                      >
                                      > 25
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 351
                                      >
                                      > Mr Greentree
                                      >
                                      > Michael Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 15
                                      >
                                      > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                                      >
                                      > 60
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 355
                                      >
                                      > ditto
                                      >
                                      > Sarah Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 16
                                      >
                                      > House servant and nurse lent out
                                      >
                                      > 30
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 780
                                      >
                                      > Mr Lambe
                                      >
                                      > William Caesar
                                      >
                                      > 44
                                      >
                                      > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                                      > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                                      > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                                      >
                                      > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                                      > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any
                                      on this
                                      > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                                      > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                                      > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                                      > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                                      > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                                      > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                                      > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                                      > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                                      > has been laid to his charge
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Not valued No 19
                                      >
                                      > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                                      > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                                      > one half of the sum at which
                                      he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                                      > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                                      > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 80
                                      >
                                      > Mr G and H Alexander
                                      >
                                      > Augustus Casar
                                      >
                                      > 18
                                      >
                                      > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                                      >
                                      > 75
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 108
                                      >
                                      > Mrs Broadway
                                      >
                                      > Benjamin Casar
                                      >
                                      > 54
                                      >
                                      > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                                      >
                                      > 10
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 76
                                      >
                                      > Sergt Carolans Estate
                                      >
                                      > Celia Casar
                                      >
                                      > 40
                                      >
                                      > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                                      >
                                      > 40
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 78
                                      >
                                      > Mr G and H Alexander
                                      >
                                      > Samuel
                                      Casar
                                      >
                                      > 39
                                      >
                                      > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                                      > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                                      >
                                      > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                                      >
                                      > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                                      > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                                      > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                                      > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                                      > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                                      > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                                      > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                                      > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                                      > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                                      >
                                      > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                                      >
                                      > Granted]
                                      >
                                      > 90
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Colin Fox
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      > gardiner.john@...
                                      > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                      > To:
                                      ymailto="mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com">st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                                      > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                                      > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                                      > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                                      > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                      > >
                                      > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's
                                      marriage to Timms, birth
                                      > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > Paul,
                                      >
                                      > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                                      > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                                      > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                                      > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                                      > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                                      >
                                      > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                                      > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                                      > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                                      > was Louisa's father.
                                      >
                                      > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                                      > island up to 1865 when Samuel
                                      Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                                      > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                                      > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to
                                      > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                                      >
                                      > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                                      > too.
                                      >
                                      > Very best regards,
                                      >
                                      > John Gardiner
                                      >


                                    • Jake
                                      Go here for more info on the Honeybuns: http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun. Jake From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 16 3:10 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        Go here for more info on the Honeybuns:

                                        http://www.genealogywise.com/profile/AlastairHoneybun.

                                         

                                        Jake

                                         

                                         

                                        From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith.armstrong77
                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi John (or anyone out their)

                                        I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                                        All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                                        I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                                        It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                                        Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                                        Judith Armstrong
                                        Elwood Australia

                                        --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued
                                        by
                                        > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                                        > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will
                                        be
                                        > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the
                                        future
                                        > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                                        > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                                        > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with
                                        Connections magazine)
                                        >
                                        > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile
                                        society
                                        > to be a member of.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > No
                                        >
                                        > Name of Proprietior
                                        >
                                        > Name of Slave
                                        >
                                        > Age
                                        >
                                        > Description
                                        >
                                        > Value
                                        >
                                        > Remarks
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 648
                                        >
                                        > Mrs M Barnes
                                        >
                                        > Finny Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 60
                                        >
                                        > Infirm
                                        >
                                        > 1/-
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 649
                                        >
                                        > ditto
                                        >
                                        > Caroline Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 24
                                        >
                                        > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                                        >
                                        > 25
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 282
                                        >
                                        > Mrs Harper
                                        >
                                        > George Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 68
                                        >
                                        > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                                        >
                                        > 10
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 620
                                        >
                                        > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                                        >
                                        > John Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 25
                                        >
                                        > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably good
                                        >
                                        > 80
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 622
                                        >
                                        > ditto
                                        >
                                        > Flora Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 32
                                        >
                                        > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                                        > servant unmarried
                                        >
                                        > 20
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 357
                                        >
                                        > Mr Greentree
                                        >
                                        > Margaret Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 10
                                        >
                                        > Not yet employed
                                        >
                                        > 15
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 332
                                        >
                                        > Mrs Lester
                                        >
                                        > Mary Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 30
                                        >
                                        > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                                        >
                                        > 35
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 785
                                        >
                                        > Mr Lambe
                                        >
                                        > Massie Caesar
                                        >
                                        > (married to Wm Caesar)
                                        >
                                        > 26
                                        >
                                        > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                                        >
                                        > 25
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 351
                                        >
                                        > Mr Greentree
                                        >
                                        > Michael Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 15
                                        >
                                        > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                                        >
                                        > 60
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 355
                                        >
                                        > ditto
                                        >
                                        > Sarah Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 16
                                        >
                                        > House servant and nurse lent out
                                        >
                                        > 30
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 780
                                        >
                                        > Mr Lambe
                                        >
                                        > William Caesar
                                        >
                                        > 44
                                        >
                                        > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                                        > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                                        > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                                        >
                                        > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five
                                        years
                                        > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on
                                        this
                                        > island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                                        > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                                        > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                                        > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                                        > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth
                                        to
                                        > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George
                                        10
                                        > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                                        > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                                        > has been laid to his charge
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Not valued No 19
                                        >
                                        > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                                        > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                                        > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the
                                        > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                                        > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 80
                                        >
                                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                                        >
                                        > Augustus Casar
                                        >
                                        > 18
                                        >
                                        > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                                        >
                                        > 75
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 108
                                        >
                                        > Mrs Broadway
                                        >
                                        > Benjamin Casar
                                        >
                                        > 54
                                        >
                                        > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                                        >
                                        > 10
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 76
                                        >
                                        > Sergt Carolans Estate
                                        >
                                        > Celia Casar
                                        >
                                        > 40
                                        >
                                        > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for
                                        £12/annum
                                        >
                                        > 40
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 78
                                        >
                                        > Mr G and H Alexander
                                        >
                                        > Samuel Casar
                                        >
                                        > 39
                                        >
                                        > Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1
                                        class
                                        > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                                        >
                                        > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                                        >
                                        > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                                        > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                                        > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married
                                        to
                                        > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                                        > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                                        > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole
                                        family.
                                        > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent
                                        character
                                        > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                                        > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                                        >
                                        > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                                        >
                                        > Granted]
                                        >
                                        > 90
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Colin Fox
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                                        On Behalf Of
                                        > gardiner.john@...
                                        > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                        > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223"
                                        <pd91223@>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St
                                        Helena
                                        > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage
                                        cert
                                        > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's
                                        maiden
                                        > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                                        > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                        > >
                                        > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                                        > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's
                                        origins.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > Paul,
                                        >
                                        > Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post
                                        on
                                        > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                                        > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                                        > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped
                                        in
                                        > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                                        >
                                        > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                                        > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                                        > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                                        > was Louisa's father.
                                        >
                                        > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                                        > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                                        > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                                        > information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy
                                        to
                                        > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                                        >
                                        > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his
                                        siblings,
                                        > too.
                                        >
                                        > Very best regards,
                                        >
                                        > John Gardiner
                                        >

                                      • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                        Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you. ________________________________ From: judith.armstrong77 To:
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 16 11:15 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Good luck in your travels, how wonderful for you.


                                          From: judith.armstrong77 <judith.armstrong77@...>
                                          To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:07:46 PM
                                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                           

                                          Hi John (or anyone out their)

                                          I am desparate to find out more about my family who were slaves on St Helena. You may be able to shed some light on this. I am visiting the island next year in April.

                                          All I have is a marriage certificate from St James' Church 1823 showing that William Smith, age not shown (probaly not known),a slave owned by Joseph Weston, married Elizabeth Honeybon who was not shown as a slave.

                                          I have photo of their daughter in her old age. She was Ann Ursula, born 1825 and she died in Maryborough Victoria Australia in 1900.

                                          It is interesting to see that she was obviously mixed race and therefore possibly not direct from the African mainland. My Grandmother, long dead, remembered her fondly from when she was small girl, so that is my closest link.

                                          Any clues any one? Links names places to go? Relatives?

                                          Judith Armstrong
                                          Elwood Australia

                                          --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "foxhome" <colin@...> wrote:

                                          >
                                          > Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by
                                          > a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There
                                          > are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be
                                          > of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future
                                          > but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one
                                          > of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see
                                          > http://www.fosh.org.uk/ (along with Connections magazine)
                                          >
                                          > For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society
                                          > to be a member of.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > No
                                          >
                                          > Name of Proprietior
                                          >
                                          > Name of Slave
                                          >
                                          > Age
                                          >
                                          > Description
                                          >
                                          > Value
                                          >
                                          > Remarks
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 648
                                          >
                                          > Mrs M Barnes
                                          >
                                          > Finny Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 60
                                          >
                                          > Infirm
                                          >
                                          > 1/-
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 649
                                          >
                                          > ditto
                                          >
                                          > Caroline Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 24
                                          >
                                          > Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried
                                          >
                                          > 25
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 282
                                          >
                                          > Mrs Harper
                                          >
                                          > George Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 68
                                          >
                                          > A good stockman healthy old man of good character
                                          >
                                          > 10
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 620
                                          >
                                          > Estate of the late Lieut S Young
                                          >
                                          > John Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 25
                                          >
                                          > Cook in Mr John Young's service character tolerably
                                          good
                                          >
                                          > 80
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 622
                                          >
                                          > ditto
                                          >
                                          > Flora Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 32
                                          >
                                          > A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years a good
                                          > servant unmarried
                                          >
                                          > 20
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 357
                                          >
                                          > Mr Greentree
                                          >
                                          > Margaret Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 10
                                          >
                                          > Not yet employed
                                          >
                                          > 15
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 332
                                          >
                                          > Mrs Lester
                                          >
                                          > Mary Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 30
                                          >
                                          > House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances
                                          >
                                          > 35
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 785
                                          >
                                          > Mr Lambe
                                          >
                                          > Massie Caesar
                                          >
                                          > (married to Wm Caesar)
                                          >
                                          > 26
                                          >
                                          > Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years
                                          >
                                          > 25
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 351
                                          >
                                          > Mr Greentree
                                          >
                                          > Michael Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 15
                                          >
                                          > Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy
                                          >
                                          > 60
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 355
                                          >
                                          > ditto
                                          >
                                          > Sarah Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 16
                                          >
                                          > House servant and nurse lent out
                                          >
                                          > 30
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 780
                                          >
                                          > Mr Lambe
                                          >
                                          > William Caesar
                                          >
                                          > 44
                                          >
                                          > Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad
                                          > having been King's evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back
                                          > convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.
                                          >
                                          > (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years
                                          > and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this
                                          > island is an excellent mower
                                          ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the
                                          > same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner,
                                          > carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on
                                          > the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and
                                          > obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to
                                          > me at least £210 He was received King's evidence against Robinson George 10
                                          > or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and
                                          > chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime
                                          > has been laid to his charge
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Not valued No 19
                                          >
                                          > Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be
                                          > affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the
                                          > one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of
                                          the
                                          > sincere conviction he entertains that emancipation will prove of
                                          > inestimable blessing to St Helena
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 80
                                          >
                                          > Mr G and H Alexander
                                          >
                                          > Augustus Casar
                                          >
                                          > 18
                                          >
                                          > Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy
                                          >
                                          > 75
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 108
                                          >
                                          > Mrs Broadway
                                          >
                                          > Benjamin Casar
                                          >
                                          > 54
                                          >
                                          > Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy
                                          >
                                          > 10
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 76
                                          >
                                          > Sergt Carolans Estate
                                          >
                                          > Celia Casar
                                          >
                                          > 40
                                          >
                                          > A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum
                                          >
                                          > 40
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 78
                                          >
                                          > Mr G and H Alexander
                                          >
                                          > Samuel Casar
                                          >
                                          > 39
                                          >
                                          > Good
                                          mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class
                                          > premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy
                                          >
                                          > [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:
                                          >
                                          > …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own
                                          > industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will
                                          > repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to
                                          > a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10
                                          > and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay
                                          > Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family.
                                          > He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character
                                          > and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and
                                          > respectful he is not mortgaged.
                                          >
                                          > 6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe
                                          >
                                          > Granted]
                                          >
                                          > 90
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Colin Fox
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > http://www.thebennettletters.com/
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          > [mailto:st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                          > gardiner.john@...
                                          > Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                          > To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          > <mailto:st-helena-genealogy%40yahoogroups.com> , "pd91223" <pd91223@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena
                                          > from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert
                                          > to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden
                                          > name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of
                                          > Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                          > >
                                          > > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth
                                          > details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > Paul,
                                          >
                                          > Just saw your
                                          post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on
                                          > this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born
                                          > to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my
                                          > family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in
                                          > my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.
                                          >
                                          > If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and
                                          > Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel
                                          > Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipation paper from 1831. Samuel Casar
                                          > was Louisa's father.
                                          >
                                          > I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the
                                          > island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa
                                          > and his six children (three more children were born in London). This
                                          > information is in a Word document and is difficult
                                          to post here but happy to
                                          > send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.
                                          >
                                          > You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings,
                                          > too.
                                          >
                                          > Very best regards,
                                          >
                                          > John Gardiner
                                          >


                                        • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                          Hi John Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 16 11:16 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi John
                                            Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                            From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                             
                                            Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                             
                                            I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                             
                                            You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                             
                                            Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                             
                                            I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                             
                                            Very best regards,
                                             
                                            John 
                                             
                                            Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                            [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                            Contents:
                                            Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                             
                                            [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                            Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                            [See also 52394 A above]

                                            Contents:
                                            Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                
                                             
                                             

                                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                            There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                            There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                             

                                            Best wishes

                                             

                                            Colin

                                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                            Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                             

                                            Colin,

                                             

                                            Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                             

                                            I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                             

                                            1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                             

                                            2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                             

                                            Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                             

                                            3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                             

                                            4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                             

                                            We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                             

                                            I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                             

                                            Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                             

                                            Very best regards,

                                             

                                            John      

                                             


                                            From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                            Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                            For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                             

                                            No

                                            Name of Proprietior

                                            Name of Slave

                                            Age

                                            Description

                                            Value

                                            Remarks

                                            648

                                            Mrs M Barnes

                                            Finny Caesar

                                            60

                                            Infirm

                                            1/-

                                             

                                            649

                                            ditto

                                            Caroline Caesar

                                            24

                                            Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                            25

                                             

                                            282

                                            Mrs Harper

                                            George Caesar

                                            68

                                            A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                            10

                                             

                                            620

                                            Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                            John Caesar

                                            25

                                            Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                            80

                                             

                                            622

                                            ditto

                                            Flora Caesar

                                            32

                                            A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                            20

                                             

                                            357

                                            Mr Greentree

                                            Margaret Caesar

                                            10

                                            Not yet employed

                                            15

                                             

                                            332

                                            Mrs Lester

                                            Mary Caesar

                                            30

                                            House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                            35

                                             

                                            785

                                            Mr Lambe

                                            Massie Caesar

                                            (married to Wm Caesar)

                                            26

                                            Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                            25

                                             

                                            351

                                            Mr Greentree

                                            Michael Caesar

                                            15

                                            Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                            60

                                             

                                            355

                                            ditto

                                            Sarah Caesar

                                            16

                                            House servant and nurse lent out

                                            30

                                             

                                            780

                                            Mr Lambe

                                            William Caesar

                                            44

                                            Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                            (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                             

                                            Not valued No 19

                                            Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                            80

                                            Mr G and H Alexander

                                            Augustus Casar

                                            18

                                            Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                            75

                                             

                                            108

                                            Mrs Broadway

                                            Benjamin Casar

                                            54

                                            Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                            10

                                             

                                            76

                                            Sergt Carolans Estate

                                            Celia Casar

                                            40

                                            A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                            40

                                             

                                            78

                                            Mr G and H Alexander

                                            Samuel Casar

                                            39

                                            Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                            [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                            …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                            6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                            Granted]

                                            90

                                             

                                             

                                            Colin Fox

                                             

                                            http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                            Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                            To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                            Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                             

                                             

                                            --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                            >
                                            > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                            >

                                            Paul,

                                            Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                            If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                            I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                            You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                            Very best regards,

                                            John Gardiner

                                             



                                          • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                            Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you. ________________________________ From: foxhome
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 16 11:18 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Can someone do a lookup for me on this document everyone is speaking of?  The surname is George.  Thank you.


                                              From: foxhome <colin@...>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 2:34:49 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Alan, Not much but the name does appear.

                                              Regards

                                               

                                              Colin

                                               

                                               

                                              No

                                              Name of Proprietior

                                              Name of Slave

                                              Age

                                              Description

                                              Value

                                              Remarks

                                              333

                                               

                                              Mrs Lester

                                              Elizabeth Scott

                                              12

                                              Useful handy girl

                                              20

                                               

                                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A. Russ
                                              Sent: 13 June 2010 19:25
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                               

                                              

                                              Hi, Do you have any information on Elizabeth Scott?

                                              Regards,

                                              Alan

                                               

                                               

                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                              Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 2:01 PM

                                              Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                               

                                              Thank you for posting that and the information on the society as well.

                                               


                                              From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 7:22:45 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                              For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                               

                                              No

                                              Name of Proprietior

                                              Name of Slave

                                              Age

                                              Description

                                              Value

                                              Remarks

                                              648

                                              Mrs M Barnes

                                              Finny Caesar

                                              60

                                              Infirm

                                              1/-

                                               

                                              649

                                              ditto

                                              Caroline Caesar

                                              24

                                              Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                              25

                                               

                                              282

                                              Mrs Harper

                                              George Caesar

                                              68

                                              A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                              10

                                               

                                              620

                                              Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                              John Caesar

                                              25

                                              Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                              80

                                               

                                              622

                                              ditto

                                              Flora Caesar

                                              32

                                              A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                              20

                                               

                                              357

                                              Mr Greentree

                                              Margaret Caesar

                                              10

                                              Not yet employed

                                              15

                                               

                                              332

                                              Mrs Lester

                                              Mary Caesar

                                              30

                                              House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                              35

                                               

                                              785

                                              Mr Lambe

                                              Massie Caesar

                                              (married to Wm Caesar)

                                              26

                                              Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                              25

                                               

                                              351

                                              Mr Greentree

                                              Michael Caesar

                                              15

                                              Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                              60

                                               

                                              355

                                              ditto

                                              Sarah Caesar

                                              16

                                              House servant and nurse lent out

                                              30

                                               

                                              780

                                              Mr Lambe

                                              William Caesar

                                              44

                                              Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                              (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                               

                                              Not valued No 19

                                              Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                              80

                                              Mr G and H Alexander

                                              Augustus Casar

                                              18

                                              Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                              75

                                               

                                              108

                                              Mrs Broadway

                                              Benjamin Casar

                                              54

                                              Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                              10

                                               

                                              76

                                              Sergt Carolans Estate

                                              Celia Casar

                                              40

                                              A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                              40

                                               

                                              78

                                              Mr G and H Alexander

                                              Samuel Casar

                                              39

                                              Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                              [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                              …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                              6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                              Granted]

                                              90

                                               

                                               

                                              Colin Fox

                                               

                                              http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                              Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                              To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                              Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                               

                                              --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                              >
                                              > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                              >

                                              Paul,

                                              Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                              If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                              I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                              You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                              Very best regards,

                                              John Gardiner

                                               


                                            • John Gardiner
                                              Hi, Nancy-Jo. It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document: Information
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 17 12:36 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                                 
                                                It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                                of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                                These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                                From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                                To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                 

                                                Hi John
                                                Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                                From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                 

                                                Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                                 
                                                Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                                 
                                                I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                                 
                                                You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                                 
                                                Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                                 
                                                I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                                 
                                                Very best regards,
                                                 
                                                John 
                                                 
                                                Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                                [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                                Contents:
                                                Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                                 
                                                [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                                Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                                [See also 52394 A above]

                                                Contents:
                                                Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                    
                                                 
                                                 

                                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                 

                                                John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                                There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                                There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                                 

                                                Best wishes

                                                 

                                                Colin

                                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                                Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Colin,

                                                 

                                                Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                                 

                                                I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                                 

                                                1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                                 

                                                2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                                 

                                                Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                                 

                                                3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                                 

                                                4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                                 

                                                We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                                 

                                                I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                                 

                                                Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                                 

                                                Very best regards,

                                                 

                                                John      

                                                 


                                                From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                                Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                 

                                                Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                                For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                                 

                                                No

                                                Name of Proprietior

                                                Name of Slave

                                                Age

                                                Description

                                                Value

                                                Remarks

                                                648

                                                Mrs M Barnes

                                                Finny Caesar

                                                60

                                                Infirm

                                                1/-

                                                 

                                                649

                                                ditto

                                                Caroline Caesar

                                                24

                                                Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                                25

                                                 

                                                282

                                                Mrs Harper

                                                George Caesar

                                                68

                                                A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                                10

                                                 

                                                620

                                                Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                                John Caesar

                                                25

                                                Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                                80

                                                 

                                                622

                                                ditto

                                                Flora Caesar

                                                32

                                                A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                                20

                                                 

                                                357

                                                Mr Greentree

                                                Margaret Caesar

                                                10

                                                Not yet employed

                                                15

                                                 

                                                332

                                                Mrs Lester

                                                Mary Caesar

                                                30

                                                House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                                35

                                                 

                                                785

                                                Mr Lambe

                                                Massie Caesar

                                                (married to Wm Caesar)

                                                26

                                                Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                                25

                                                 

                                                351

                                                Mr Greentree

                                                Michael Caesar

                                                15

                                                Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                                60

                                                 

                                                355

                                                ditto

                                                Sarah Caesar

                                                16

                                                House servant and nurse lent out

                                                30

                                                 

                                                780

                                                Mr Lambe

                                                William Caesar

                                                44

                                                Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                                (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                                 

                                                Not valued No 19

                                                Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                                80

                                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                                Augustus Casar

                                                18

                                                Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                                75

                                                 

                                                108

                                                Mrs Broadway

                                                Benjamin Casar

                                                54

                                                Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                                10

                                                 

                                                76

                                                Sergt Carolans Estate

                                                Celia Casar

                                                40

                                                A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                                40

                                                 

                                                78

                                                Mr G and H Alexander

                                                Samuel Casar

                                                39

                                                Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                                [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                                …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                                6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                                Granted]

                                                90

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Colin Fox

                                                 

                                                http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                                Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                                To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                 

                                                 

                                                --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                                >
                                                > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                                >

                                                Paul,

                                                Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                                If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                                I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                                You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                                Very best regards,

                                                John Gardiner

                                                 




                                              • foxhome
                                                Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 17 4:41 AM
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                                                  Nancy-Jo, There are 41 slaves with surname George in F/4/1264. In a separate part of the document there is more biographical information about some slaves which I am currently working on but probably won’t finish until the end of the year. Anyone want to help!

                                                   

                                                  Colin

                                                   

                                                  No

                                                  Name of Proprietior

                                                  Name of Slave

                                                  Age

                                                  Description

                                                  Value £

                                                  Remarks

                                                  65

                                                  Capt Broadway

                                                  Jacob George

                                                  43

                                                  Employed fetching wood and for other house purposes. Is a painter and mason of good character

                                                  65

                                                   

                                                  179

                                                  Mr Darling

                                                  James George

                                                  9

                                                  A house boy

                                                  25

                                                   

                                                  180

                                                  Mr Darling

                                                  Peggy George

                                                  22

                                                  House servant and washerwoman has 2 young free children married

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  181

                                                  Mr Darling

                                                  John George

                                                  20

                                                  A good cook and very useful servant

                                                  90

                                                   

                                                  183

                                                  Mr Darling

                                                  Jacob George

                                                  17

                                                  A good waiting servant

                                                  70

                                                   

                                                  208

                                                  Mr Dring

                                                  Sarah George

                                                  22

                                                  Wash and needlewoman an incorrigible drunkard subject to fits in consequence

                                                   

                                                  Not valued No 5

                                                  246

                                                  Mr Janisch

                                                  Louisa George

                                                  11

                                                  Useful little girl

                                                  20

                                                   

                                                  273

                                                  Mr De Foutain cont from No 268

                                                  May George

                                                  33

                                                  A complete stockman, hires himself for £10/year earns 9/- a week and gets rations allowed him besides, healthy good character

                                                  105

                                                   

                                                  277

                                                  Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                                  John George

                                                  37

                                                  First rate ploughman mower stockman and carter of good character

                                                  105

                                                   

                                                  279

                                                  Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                                  Frances George

                                                  10

                                                  Useful farm boy

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  281

                                                  Mrs Harper and cont at No 361

                                                  Nanny George

                                                  36

                                                  Washerwoman and house servant has 5 free children youngest 2 years old married

                                                  20

                                                   

                                                  378

                                                  Mr Mulhall

                                                  Lucy George

                                                  28

                                                  Wash and needlewoman a very good servant has 3 free children youngest 13 months unmarried

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  379

                                                  Mr Mulhall

                                                  Mary George (dau of Lucy)

                                                  13

                                                  A very useful house girl

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  428

                                                  Major D K Pritchard

                                                  Charles George

                                                  34

                                                  A generally useful servant cook and labourer  healthy and of very good character

                                                  105

                                                   

                                                  429

                                                  Mr H T Seale

                                                  Jane George

                                                  43

                                                  Washes for the family has 1 free child and 6 slave children unmarried

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  433

                                                  Dr Lorimer

                                                  Martha George

                                                  16

                                                  Useful house servant good character

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  483

                                                  Miss Mason

                                                  Susan George

                                                  24

                                                  Washerwoman and attends the poultry has 3 free children  youngest 9 months married

                                                  20

                                                   

                                                  498

                                                  Mr B Solomon

                                                  Benj George

                                                  10

                                                  Useful houseboy

                                                  35

                                                   

                                                  501

                                                  Mr S Solomon

                                                  Dolly George

                                                  17

                                                  Needlewoman and nurse

                                                  25

                                                   

                                                  519

                                                  Mr William Seale jun.

                                                  Nancy George

                                                  26

                                                  Washes and cooks for the family has 5 free children

                                                  25

                                                   

                                                  525

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  Sally George

                                                  22

                                                  Wash and needlewoman. No children healthy good servant

                                                  40

                                                   

                                                  534

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  Ruth George

                                                  18

                                                  A good house servant

                                                  30

                                                   

                                                  535

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  Martha George

                                                  13

                                                  A good house servant

                                                  25

                                                   

                                                  541

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  James George

                                                  32

                                                  Clever useful servant has turned King’s evidence

                                                   

                                                  Not valued No 11

                                                  542

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  Benj George

                                                  18

                                                  Labourer and attended the stock has turned King’s evidence

                                                   

                                                  Not valued no 12

                                                  543

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  Harry George

                                                  21

                                                  A very good servant , mower, groom gardener etc

                                                  110

                                                   

                                                  544

                                                  Major Seale

                                                  Cornelius George

                                                  13

                                                • Shirley Morgan
                                                  Hi All I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I assume was a
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 17 6:02 PM
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                                                    Hi All

                                                    I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                                    (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                                    assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                                    not anything else.

                                                    He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                                    writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                                    he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                                    Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                                    I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                                    so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                                    Many thanks in advance

                                                    Shirley Morgan



                                                    Shirley





                                                    Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
                                                  • Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                                    Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves. ________________________________ From: John Gardiner
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 18 10:42 PM
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                                                      Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...>
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                      Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                                       
                                                      It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                                      of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                                      These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                                      From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                      Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                      Hi John
                                                      Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                                      From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                      Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                      Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                                       
                                                      Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                                       
                                                      I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                                       
                                                      You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                                       
                                                      Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                                       
                                                      I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                                       
                                                      Very best regards,
                                                       
                                                      John 
                                                       
                                                      Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                                      [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                                      Contents:
                                                      Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                                       
                                                      [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                                      Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                                      [See also 52394 A above]

                                                      Contents:
                                                      Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                          
                                                       
                                                       

                                                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                      Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                      John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                                      There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                                      There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                                       

                                                      Best wishes

                                                       

                                                      Colin

                                                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                                      Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Colin,

                                                       

                                                      Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                                       

                                                      I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                                       

                                                      1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                                       

                                                      2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                                       

                                                      Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                                       

                                                      3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                                       

                                                      4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                                       

                                                      We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                                       

                                                      I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                                       

                                                      Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                                       

                                                      Very best regards,

                                                       

                                                      John      

                                                       


                                                      From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                      Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                                      Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                      Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                                      For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                                       

                                                      No

                                                      Name of Proprietior

                                                      Name of Slave

                                                      Age

                                                      Description

                                                      Value

                                                      Remarks

                                                      648

                                                      Mrs M Barnes

                                                      Finny Caesar

                                                      60

                                                      Infirm

                                                      1/-

                                                       

                                                      649

                                                      ditto

                                                      Caroline Caesar

                                                      24

                                                      Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                                      25

                                                       

                                                      282

                                                      Mrs Harper

                                                      George Caesar

                                                      68

                                                      A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                                      10

                                                       

                                                      620

                                                      Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                                      John Caesar

                                                      25

                                                      Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                                      80

                                                       

                                                      622

                                                      ditto

                                                      Flora Caesar

                                                      32

                                                      A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                                      20

                                                       

                                                      357

                                                      Mr Greentree

                                                      Margaret Caesar

                                                      10

                                                      Not yet employed

                                                      15

                                                       

                                                      332

                                                      Mrs Lester

                                                      Mary Caesar

                                                      30

                                                      House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                                      35

                                                       

                                                      785

                                                      Mr Lambe

                                                      Massie Caesar

                                                      (married to Wm Caesar)

                                                      26

                                                      Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                                      25

                                                       

                                                      351

                                                      Mr Greentree

                                                      Michael Caesar

                                                      15

                                                      Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                                      60

                                                       

                                                      355

                                                      ditto

                                                      Sarah Caesar

                                                      16

                                                      House servant and nurse lent out

                                                      30

                                                       

                                                      780

                                                      Mr Lambe

                                                      William Caesar

                                                      44

                                                      Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                                      (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                                       

                                                      Not valued No 19

                                                      Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                                      80

                                                      Mr G and H Alexander

                                                      Augustus Casar

                                                      18

                                                      Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                                      75

                                                       

                                                      108

                                                      Mrs Broadway

                                                      Benjamin Casar

                                                      54

                                                      Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                                      10

                                                       

                                                      76

                                                      Sergt Carolans Estate

                                                      Celia Casar

                                                      40

                                                      A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                                      40

                                                       

                                                      78

                                                      Mr G and H Alexander

                                                      Samuel Casar

                                                      39

                                                      Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                                      [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                                      …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                                      6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                                      Granted]

                                                      90

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Colin Fox

                                                       

                                                      http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                                      Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                                      To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                      Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                                      >
                                                      > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                                      >

                                                      Paul,

                                                      Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                                      If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                                      I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                                      You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                                      Very best regards,

                                                      John Gardiner

                                                       





                                                    • John Gardiner
                                                      Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information. ________________________________ From: Nancy-Jo Nunez
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 19 2:04 PM
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@...>
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                        Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                        Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                                         
                                                        It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                                        of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                                        These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                                        From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                        Hi John
                                                        Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                                        From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                        Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                                         
                                                        Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                                         
                                                        I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                                         
                                                        You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                                         
                                                        Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                                         
                                                        I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                                         
                                                        Very best regards,
                                                         
                                                        John 
                                                         
                                                        Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                                        [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                                        Contents:
                                                        Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                                         
                                                        [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                                        Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                                        [See also 52394 A above]

                                                        Contents:
                                                        Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                            
                                                         
                                                         

                                                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                        John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                                        There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                                        There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                                         

                                                        Best wishes

                                                         

                                                        Colin

                                                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                                        Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Colin,

                                                         

                                                        Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                                         

                                                        I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                                         

                                                        1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                                         

                                                        2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                                         

                                                        Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                                         

                                                        3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                                         

                                                        4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                                         

                                                        We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                                         

                                                        I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                                         

                                                        Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                                         

                                                        Very best regards,

                                                         

                                                        John      

                                                         


                                                        From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                                        Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                        Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                                        For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                                         

                                                        No

                                                        Name of Proprietior

                                                        Name of Slave

                                                        Age

                                                        Description

                                                        Value

                                                        Remarks

                                                        648

                                                        Mrs M Barnes

                                                        Finny Caesar

                                                        60

                                                        Infirm

                                                        1/-

                                                         

                                                        649

                                                        ditto

                                                        Caroline Caesar

                                                        24

                                                        Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                                        25

                                                         

                                                        282

                                                        Mrs Harper

                                                        George Caesar

                                                        68

                                                        A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                                        10

                                                         

                                                        620

                                                        Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                                        John Caesar

                                                        25

                                                        Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                                        80

                                                         

                                                        622

                                                        ditto

                                                        Flora Caesar

                                                        32

                                                        A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                                        20

                                                         

                                                        357

                                                        Mr Greentree

                                                        Margaret Caesar

                                                        10

                                                        Not yet employed

                                                        15

                                                         

                                                        332

                                                        Mrs Lester

                                                        Mary Caesar

                                                        30

                                                        House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                                        35

                                                         

                                                        785

                                                        Mr Lambe

                                                        Massie Caesar

                                                        (married to Wm Caesar)

                                                        26

                                                        Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                                        25

                                                         

                                                        351

                                                        Mr Greentree

                                                        Michael Caesar

                                                        15

                                                        Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                                        60

                                                         

                                                        355

                                                        ditto

                                                        Sarah Caesar

                                                        16

                                                        House servant and nurse lent out

                                                        30

                                                         

                                                        780

                                                        Mr Lambe

                                                        William Caesar

                                                        44

                                                        Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                                        (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                                         

                                                        Not valued No 19

                                                        Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                                        80

                                                        Mr G and H Alexander

                                                        Augustus Casar

                                                        18

                                                        Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                                        75

                                                         

                                                        108

                                                        Mrs Broadway

                                                        Benjamin Casar

                                                        54

                                                        Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                                        10

                                                         

                                                        76

                                                        Sergt Carolans Estate

                                                        Celia Casar

                                                        40

                                                        A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                                        40

                                                         

                                                        78

                                                        Mr G and H Alexander

                                                        Samuel Casar

                                                        39

                                                        Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                                        [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                                        …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                                        6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                                        Granted]

                                                        90

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Colin Fox

                                                         

                                                        http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                                        Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                                        To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                        Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                                        >
                                                        > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                                        >

                                                        Paul,

                                                        Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                                        If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                                        I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                                        You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                                        Very best regards,

                                                        John Gardiner

                                                         






                                                      • Arabella George
                                                        Hi Nancy-Jo I m a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not. Regards
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jun 19 3:05 PM
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Hi Nancy-Jo
                                                          I'm a George as well and looking into that side of our family. I have sent you an email direct, not sure whether you received it or not.

                                                          Regards 

                                                          Bella George

                                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                                          On 19 Jun 2010, at 22:04, John Gardiner <gardiner.john@...> wrote:

                                                           

                                                          Definitely would be worth a look.  Sounds like it contains some good information.


                                                          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 7:42:47
                                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                          Thanks so much John, appreciate that.  Perhaps his parents were on there as slaves.


                                                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:36:56 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                          Hi, Nancy-Jo.
                                                           
                                                          It is only available from the British Library - case of having to go there and viewing the original.  This is the document:

                                                          of the slaves each year, etc. (includes list of slaves for 1827/28 giving slave's name, name of owner, age, monetary value, and brief personal description, pp 178-269, 332-471). [British Library Collections, India Office Records]
                                                          These documents are held at: British Library, Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections



                                                          From: Nancy-Jo Nunez <njnunez@yahoo. com>
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 8:16:45
                                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                          Hi John
                                                          Saw your posting on the document, how does one get that?  Is it available through Library Loan anywhere?  Thanks for replying.


                                                          From: John Gardiner <gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com>
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 7:48:44 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                          Hi, Colin.  Makes you ashamed to be British sometimes - "We'll give you your freedom, but only after you've taken out an HP agreement on yourself!"  Still, at least they weren't charged interest, which would have been beyond the pale!
                                                           
                                                          Very interesting what you are saying about the higher valued slaves being freed first as an incentive to the others to buck up their ideas, and you are totally right about the name spelling issue.  Spelling was more lax in general and doesn't become more formalised until the mid-19th Century, and there must have been even less incentive to get the spelling right when it came to a slave.  The three documents (death certificate, emancipation paper and now F/4/1264) have been consistent with Samuel's surname spelt as "Casar", but other documents relating to his wife and children also have the name spelt Ceaser, Caesar, Caezar and even Seasor.
                                                           
                                                          I'm really pleased you're going through F/4/1264.  I've wanted to have a look at this document for some time as I felt it might say more about Samuel, but also give an indication of other Caesars on the island at the time as I'm sure he must have come from a wider family.  The Free Blacks listing is also interesting.
                                                           
                                                          You could be right about the 1818 date just being a rubber stamp to what had already been happening on the island, especially as it seems the slave owners were in agreement and there was little or no dissension on the issue.  They'd had 10 years since the Parliamentary slave act, so enough time for the mode of thought to become established, and F/4/1264 shows some care and concern for their slaves by some owners.
                                                           
                                                          Not sure if this helps you and you might already have them, but Paul Jokinen-Carter at the BL also sent me these two references below on slavery, but - just as with F/4/1264 - I've not had the chance to go through them as most of my time is spent in Germany. 
                                                           
                                                          I'm very much looking forward to reading your article in Wirebird.  This is valuable research you are doing.
                                                           
                                                          Very best regards,
                                                           
                                                          John 
                                                           
                                                          Related information: St Hel Gen 15 Gen 1833, draft 7/1833, G/32/158 pp 812-13
                                                          [See also 50879-80, 50889 above]

                                                          Contents:
                                                          Further papers regarding the gradual abolition of slavery on St Helena (includes a list of slaves, dated 9 Jul 1832, giving names of owners and monetary value, pp 62-63, and a memorial from 62 proprietors suggesting that emancipation should be completed within 3 years rather than 5, pp 65-76)
                                                           
                                                          [no title]  IOR/F/4/1373/ 54693  Feb-Jun 1833



                                                          Related information: St Hel Gen 29 Jan 1834, draft 38/1834, G/32/158 p 930
                                                          [See also 52394 A above]

                                                          Contents:
                                                          Further papers regarding the emancipation of slaves on St Helena - one quarter of the remaining slave population are emancipated by lot on 29 April 1833 (includes a list of the 124 emancipated slaves, with the names of their owners, and the amount of compensation paid, on pp 12-16).
                                                              
                                                           
                                                           

                                                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 11:27:03
                                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                          John, you are correct – the info came from F/4/1264.  In this volume there is the listing, which I have transcribed and then later on a second listing whereby the slaves are designated into various classes. This was done to address the conundrum of the highest value slaves having to pay back the most money (Oh yes, they had to pay for their own freedom from an interest free loan from the company!). The idea was that the most deserving – hardest working (highest class) slaves would get their freedom first and this would provide an incentive for the lower class slaves to buck their ideas up. This second listing provides more biographical detail and I am working through this at present. It is clear from this that the names do vary. Stephens changes to Stevens etc. It is clear that they are the same persons as their first name, age, owner, value and description all match. There are also variations in first name Margaret on one list becomes Peggy on the other. As you say, Caesar and Casar could well be variations in pronunciation at the hearing.  

                                                          There do seem to be some names missing from the first list – I’ve found 3 so far on the second listing. If I come across a Sophia, I’ll let you know.

                                                          There is another listing of Free Blacks somewhere. In 1824 Gov Alexander Walker sent out a Serg Eggleshaw on a 3 month job to visit every house on the island and enumerate the names and details of all free blacks. So far I’ve only tracked down a statistical return of this but it is pretty evident from this that there are more than expected free children under 15 which suggests the 1818 date may only have been an official legislative act to encompass something that had already been going on unofficially for some time

                                                           

                                                          Best wishes

                                                           

                                                          Colin

                                                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Gardiner
                                                          Sent: 13 June 2010 21:52
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Colin,

                                                           

                                                          Thank you very much for posting this information.  It really is extremely helpful and has given some more leads for further investigation.  Is the manumission document you refer to the same as the slave register for 1827-28, BL re IOR/F/4/1264/ 50880? 

                                                           

                                                          I'm John Gardiner, and Samuel Casar was my great x 4 grandfather.  I wrote the Casar/Caesar article for Wirebird No.38.  

                                                           

                                                          1.  We new Samuel was a mower, mason and gardener from his emancipation paper, but this talks about him being a fruit gardener and blind in one eye, which was new news.

                                                           

                                                          2.  Samuel's death certificate of 1871 says he died aged 88, which places him as being born in 1783.  His emancipation paper, however, states he was 42 when he was freed on the 6 January 1831, which gives him a birth date of 1788/89.  Now, this new document confirms he was 39 in 1828, which again gives us a birth in 1788-89.  

                                                           

                                                          Even though his death certificate is the later document of the three, his death was recorded  possibly by a distant relative and Samuel was suffering from "senile decay" at the time, so it's likely they were taking an educated guess at the age of this elderly man and got it wrong.  This manumission document helps to swing the balance in favour of Samuel being born in 1788-89.  

                                                           

                                                          3.  Very interesting to see a "Margaret Caesar" aged 10 owned by Mr. Greentree.  Samuel's wife was a Margaret who had been owned by Mr. Greentree, but we know she was married to Samuel by 1828 and had four children by him by the August of that year.  No surprise Samuel's wife Margaret is not on the slave list as she was freed by the time she had her second child in 1825, but this 10-year-old Margaret Caesar is a bit of a mystery! 

                                                           

                                                          4.  It might just be the way the name was transcribed, but it's interesting that we have both Caesars and Casars noted in this document, and particularly that here's both Samuel and another Casar - 18 year-old Augustus Casar - being owned by Mr. G and H. Alexander.  This leads to some interesting speculation as to the relationship between Samuel and Augustus.

                                                           

                                                          We know that Samuel fathered his first child with Margaret in 1823 and married her in 1824.  So Samuel was 35-ish by the time he married Margaret, assuming the strong likelihood he was born in 1788-89.  This seems quite an advanced age to get married, and I'd often wondered if Samuel had a previous wife or fathered children before he met Margaret.  Another researcher recently came across a Sophia Caesar who died in 1875 aged 60 and who it said was the "late daughter of Samuel Casar". 

                                                           

                                                          I'd hoped Sophia would have turned up on this slave list as she was born before 1818, and so technically should still have been a slave, unless she had been freed before 1828 - which could have been the case.  Still, the only record we have of Sophia so far is her death certificate.  But if she was born around 1815, could Augustus have been an older brother?  I've not come across Augustus Casar before in any of the records, but I'll check him out with the Archives on the island.

                                                           

                                                          Thank you again for your work on this, Colin.  Some great new information, and new leads to follow-up on.  I'd also like to support what you said about the FOSH.  It's fascinating looking back at our family associations with St. Helena, but also important to keep that link alive and to try to do our bit for the history and for the inhabitants on the island today.  Hope to see you at the London meeting later in the year.

                                                           

                                                          Very best regards,

                                                           

                                                          John      

                                                           


                                                          From: foxhome <colin@foxhome. plus.com>
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Sent: Sun, 13 June, 2010 15:22:45
                                                          Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                          Hi, I have recently been transcribing the names of slaves who were valued by a committee on the island in Sep1827 in preparation for manumission. There are a number of Caesars and Casars in the list – as below. Hope this will be of use to you. I will be publishing the whole listing sometime in the future but will be using the data for articles I plan to submit to Wirebird – one of the publications sent to members of the Friends of St Helena see http://www.fosh. org.uk/  (along with Connections magazine)

                                                          For anyone with an interest in the island, this is a very worthwhile society to be a member of.

                                                           

                                                          No

                                                          Name of Proprietior

                                                          Name of Slave

                                                          Age

                                                          Description

                                                          Value

                                                          Remarks

                                                          648

                                                          Mrs M Barnes

                                                          Finny Caesar

                                                          60

                                                          Infirm

                                                          1/-

                                                           

                                                          649

                                                          ditto

                                                          Caroline Caesar

                                                          24

                                                          Washerwoman has 1 free child 3 years old unmarried

                                                          25

                                                           

                                                          282

                                                          Mrs Harper

                                                          George Caesar

                                                          68

                                                          A good stockman healthy old man of good character

                                                          10

                                                           

                                                          620

                                                          Estate of the late Lieut S Young

                                                          John Caesar

                                                          25

                                                          Cook in Mr John Young’s service character tolerably good

                                                          80

                                                           

                                                          622

                                                          ditto

                                                          Flora Caesar

                                                          32

                                                          A cook and washerwoman let out has 2 free children youngest 3 years  a good servant unmarried

                                                          20

                                                           

                                                          357

                                                          Mr Greentree

                                                          Margaret Caesar

                                                          10

                                                          Not yet employed

                                                          15

                                                           

                                                          332

                                                          Mrs Lester

                                                          Mary Caesar

                                                          30

                                                          House servant and nurse of good character no encumbrances

                                                          35

                                                           

                                                          785

                                                          Mr Lambe

                                                          Massie Caesar

                                                          (married to Wm Caesar)

                                                          26

                                                          Milk woman and poulterer has 2 free children youngest 3 years

                                                          25

                                                           

                                                          351

                                                          Mr Greentree

                                                          Michael Caesar

                                                          15

                                                          Shepherd and pastures hand a very useful boy

                                                          60

                                                           

                                                          355

                                                          ditto

                                                          Sarah Caesar

                                                          16

                                                          House servant and nurse lent out

                                                          30

                                                           

                                                          780

                                                          Mr Lambe

                                                          William Caesar

                                                          44

                                                          Mower and first rate ploughman good farm labourer character formerly bad having been King’s evidence 10 or 12 years ago and about 4 years back convicted of stealing poultry since when well behaved.

                                                          (Remark on Wm Caesar by Mr Lambe) This man has been in my employ five years and I consider him as active able and useful a farm labourer as any on this island is an excellent mower ploughman (having obtained 2 premiums for the same at the fair) a good gardener a tolerable mason a very good joiner, carpenter a thatcher a stockman can milk and make cheese and butter and on the whole is a very useful and intelligent man very healthy civil and obedient I should give him £25 per annum and rations if free and is worth to me at least £210 He was received King’s evidence against Robinson George 10 or 12 years ago – was convicted about 4 years ago of stealing a hen and chickens and punished in the treadmill since when to my knowledge no crime has been laid to his charge

                                                           

                                                          Not valued No 19

                                                          Mr Lambe requests it be noted by the Committee that whatever value may be affixed to his slave he doth hereby make a present to each of them of the one half of the sum at which he or she may be valued as a testimony of the sincere conviction he entertains that  emancipation will prove of inestimable blessing to St Helena

                                                          80

                                                          Mr G and H Alexander

                                                          Augustus Casar

                                                          18

                                                          Useful hand in the yam plantation, strong and healthy

                                                          75

                                                           

                                                          108

                                                          Mrs Broadway

                                                          Benjamin Casar

                                                          54

                                                          Useful wood cutter; a willing old servant and tolerably healthy

                                                          10

                                                           

                                                          76

                                                          Sergt Carolans Estate

                                                          Celia Casar

                                                          40

                                                          A good washerwoman and cook, a good servant no child. Let out for £12/annum

                                                          40

                                                           

                                                          78

                                                          Mr G and H Alexander

                                                          Samuel Casar

                                                          39

                                                          Good mower, mason and fruit gardener of good character has received 1 class premium of 1825 lost the sight of one eye by an accident. Healthy

                                                          [Wirebird No 38 The Caesars of St Helena:

                                                          …can pay down £25 which himself and his wife have made by their own industry, and wishes Government to advance him a loan of £65 which he will repay by instalments and from 15 to 20 shillings per month. He is married to a woman (Margaret slave of Capt Seale) whose freedom he purchased for £10 and has 6 free children those who are of sufficient age attend Sandy Bay Sunday School and he subscribes to the Benefit Society for the whole family. He is a mower, mason and general farm servant bears and excellent character and received a medal in 1824 for being honest, diligent, sober and respectful he is not mortgaged.

                                                          6th Jan 1831 GA Den Taffe

                                                          Granted]

                                                          90

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Colin Fox

                                                           

                                                          http://www.thebenne ttletters. com/

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          From: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com [mailto:st-helena- genealogy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardiner.john@ rocketmail. com
                                                          Sent: 07 September 2009 15:18
                                                          To: st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com
                                                          Subject: [St.H.Fam.Hist. ] Re: Gardner, Timms & Caesar

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          --- In st-helena-genealogy @yahoogroups. com, "pd91223" <pd91223@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Researching Gardner & Caesar families. Samuel Gardner was in St Helena from about 1850 to early 1860s, as a soldier according to his marriage cert to Louisa Timms, widow. He had several children there. Louisa Timms's maiden name was probably Caesar, in which case she was probably the daughter of Samuel & Margaret, slaves.
                                                          >
                                                          > Would like any confirmed details of Louisa's marriage to Timms, birth details of the 6 Gardner children plus anything else about Louisa's origins.
                                                          >

                                                          Paul,

                                                          Just saw your post. There are a few descendants of the Gardners who post on this site. I'm a great-great grandson of Thomas Henry Gardner who was born to Samuel Gardner and Louisa in 1857. I only discovered the depth of my family's St Helena roots earlier this year, and have been greatly helped in my research by other members of the group, espcaially Jan.

                                                          If you look in the photo section you will see a copy of Samuel Gardner and Louisa Tim's (nee Caesar) marriage certificate, plus a copy of Samuel Casar's (the spelling changes!)emancipati on paper from 1831. Samuel Casar was Louisa's father.

                                                          I've written up most of what I know about the Gardners and Caesars on the island up to 1865 when Samuel Gardner returned home to the UK with Louisa and his six children (three more children were born in London). This information is in a Word document and is difficult to post here but happy to send to you - or anyone else - if you can provide a full email address.

                                                          You know, there are photos of Thomas Henry Gardner and some of his siblings, too.

                                                          Very best regards,

                                                          John Gardiner

                                                           






                                                        • Shirley Morgan
                                                          I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena. Further information H P
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jun 20 11:53 PM
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                                            (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena.
                                                             
                                                            Further information H P Thompson / Peter Pierie were Baptism Sponsors 4 June 1854


                                                            Shirley


                                                             

                                                            To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                                            From: shirleymorgan967@...
                                                            Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:02:19 +0000
                                                            Subject: RE: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Re: Charles Contest

                                                             

                                                             
                                                            Hi All

                                                            I am researching my g grandfather Alexander Frederick Charles Contest
                                                            (or Charles Contest) who was born approx 1845 on St Helena and who I
                                                            assume was a free slave. I know that he was christened on the island but
                                                            not anything else.

                                                            He was obviously educated as I have papers with his most beautiful hand
                                                            writing and he insisted that his children received an education and that
                                                            he paid for it which was highly unusual for a black family in country
                                                            Australia. He was also well know for his healing powers.

                                                            I would like to know any details of his life on the island and also how
                                                            so many of our ancestors ended up in Australia.

                                                            Many thanks in advance

                                                            Shirley Morgan



                                                            Shirley





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