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1296Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

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  • Frank Craig
    Mar 25, 2011
      Hi Andrew,

      If you want I can mail you a print off of the Devlin/Clingham line that I know of? What is your address and I will post you a copy of name, birth, death, marriage, address? Catherine wasn't a minor when married, she was 23 and Devlin was older than she was. I have no evidence of any Clingham guarding Napoleon. However, there are Clinghams still on Saint Helena - likely from Catherine's family who did not emigrate.
       
      Regards

      Frank F Craig



      From: ajb500 <ajb500@...>
      To: st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 23 March, 2011 10:08:15
      Subject: Re: [St.H.Fam.Hist.] Devlins, Clingens & Reids

       


      Hi Frank,
      Thank you for responding so promptly to my message. I would certainly like to see your Devlin family tree at some point and to find out about descendents living in Scotland - my girlfriend is Scottish though she's living in England at the moment.
      I'll make a few comments now on the children of Henry and Catherine.
      1. Mary Ann
      I first encountered her in the 1871 Census. Aged 11 and born in St. Helena. (OPR644/02 034/00 020). I guessed that the Mary Thomson living with the Devlins in 1881 was the same person. She was 21 and had been born on St. Helena. Then I found the marriage to James Thomson in 1879. I haven't had time yet to look for them in later censuses to find out if they had any children. Too many other lines of enquiry!
      2. Catherine
      Thank you for the birth dates of Catherine and her daughter Catherine. Could you let me know the details from the St. Helena registers at some point?
      3. Henry
      Henry was also in the 1871 Census with Mary Ann. Aged 4 and born in Agra. I have since found his birth thanks to the IGI and the Family Search website. I have a copy of his death certificate.
      4. Alice
      I have copies of her birth and death certificates and the certificate of her marriage to William Walker. (I haven't found her marriage to William McDermott yet. Indexed wrongly?) She was definitely born in 1872. At first sight it looks as if she is 18 on the 1881 Census but the 1 has been crossed out with a single stroke and the 8 has not been touched. To me this looks different from the other crossings out on the same page by the enumerator. The ages on this census are a muddle. Alice was 8, not 18. Catherine was 18 but is said to be 21. Mary Ann was 21 but is not shown directly after her mother. She is shown at the end after her husband James!
      5. Henrietta
      Yes, you are right. She was born on 6th June 1875. A transcription error on my part. Last night I found her marriage to Peter McDonagh, coal miner, in Blythswood, Glasgow, on 10th April 1896.
      6. Henry
      I have a copy of his birth certificate. He was born on 30th January 1878.
      7. Georgina
      I have copies of her birth and death certificates. Fortunately Georgina isn't a very common name in Scotland so they were quite easy to find.
      8. Georgina
      Ages for adults in 19th century records are often inaccurate but I've found that children's ages are usually correct. When I found a Georgina Devlin aged 6 in the 1891 Census (OPR644/14 05300 003) I realised that there must have been another child called Georgina and found her birth certificate. Last night I found her marriage to Joseph Moore, hammerman, in Milton, Glasgow, on 3rd January 1908.

      I don't know how well-educated the Devlins were but as far as I know Mary Ann was the only one who signed with her mark. Catherine Clingen seems to have been illiterate and her surname is spelt many different ways (Clingen, Clingan, Clinging, Cleland etc.) when she is the informant on certificates.
      Thank you for letting me know the date of Catherine Clingen's birth. Would she have been a minor when she married in 1856?
      I think that's everything for the moment. I look forward to hearing from you when you have time.
      Regards,
      Andrew Begernie

      --- In st-helena-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Frank Craig <frankfcraig@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I can comment on your records below. I obtained all of my data from original
      > certificates but in some case had to extrapolate dates from censuses or later
      > records. In some cases, people lied about their ages when they were older so
      > appear younger than what they perhaps were. Also, illiteracy was common in those
      > days and people may have got dates out by a year or two?
      >
      > Her great grandmother Alice Devlin was the daughter of Henry Devlin and
      > Catherine Clingen, who were married on St. Helena on 2nd August 1856. According
      > to information I've seen on this site they were both minors and Henry was a
      > private. CORRECT.
      >
      > Henry Devlin was born in Ireland in about 1836. He was the son of John Devlin
      > and Alice Rodgers. He died in Glasgow on 15th September 1893. He is described at
      > various times as a steamship stoker, a dock labourer, a distillery worker and an
      > army pensioner. MY ESTIMATE WAS HE WAS BORN IN 1839 (GUESSED FROM CENSUS OR
      > MARRIAGE RECORDS - AS NO BIRTH RECORDS).
      >
      >
      > Catherine Clingen was born on St. Helena in about 1840 and died in Glasgow in
      > 1912. She was the daughter of William Clingen and Elizabeth Reid. According to
      > Catherine's death certificate William was a soldier. SHE WAS BORN IN 1833 FROM
      > HER MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE (OBTAINED FROM SAINT HELENA RECORDS OFFICE). I RECKON
      > THEIR REAL NAME WAS CLINGHAM AND ALL THE VARIATION WERE MIS-SPELLINGS DONE BY
      > PEOPLE SPELLING THINGS PHONETICALLY AND LIKELY NONE OF THE DEVLINS WERE LITERATE
      > SO DIDNT CORRECT THEM?
      >
      > Henry and Catherine had at least eight children
      >
      > 1. Mary Ann. She was born on St. Helena in about 1860. She married James Thomson
      > in Glasgow on 18th July 1879. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
      >
      > 2. Catherine. She was born on St. Helena in about 1863. She married Levi Girvan
      > in Glasgow on 12th October 1883. They had at least two children, Catherine and
      > Mary. CORRECT. BORN ON 14TH MAY 1863 ON SAINT HELENA. I KNEW ABOUT CATHERINE
      > BORN 26 JANUARY 1887.
      >
      > 3. Henry. He was born in Agra in India on 19th October 1866 and died in Glasgow
      > on 15th April 1875. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
      >
      > 4. Alice. She was born in Glasgow on 24th April 1872. She married William
      > McDermott and then William Walker. She died in Glasgow on 29th March 1942. I
      > HAVE THAT SHE WAS BORN IN GLASGOW IN 1863. COULD BE A DIFFERENT ONE (MAYBE MY
      > ONE DIED YOUNG?) OR ONE OF OUR RECORDS IS WRONG?
      >
      > 5. Henrietta. Born in Glasgow on 16th June 1875. I HAVE 6TH OF JUNE 1875.
      >
      > 6. Henry. Born in Glasgow on 30th January 1878. I HAVE 1877.
      >
      > 7. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 27th February 1881 and died on 30th April 1883.
      > YES, I HAVE 1881.
      >
      > 8. Georgina. Born in Glasgow on 26th May 1884. I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
      >
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Frank F Craig


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