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[ACNet] Digest Number 152

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  • John Thomson
    Can anybody deal with this? ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 2, 2001
      Can anybody deal with this?


      > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:44:51 -0400
      > From: "Richard Fuerle" <rdfuerle@...>
      >Subject: Re: MONEY MAKES MONEY
      >
      >There are only two ways to get things done: either you let people work
      >together voluntarily to do it or you force them to do it. Capitalism is
      >the
      >former, socialism is the latter.
      >
      >It is difficult or impossible for one person to accomplish certain tasks -
      >he needs the help of others. He can get that help the capitalist way, by
      >paying for it, or the socialist way, by forcing people to provide it.
      >
      >In any transaction, people want to give as little as possible and get as
      >much as possible. Of course the capitalist pays only as much as he has to
      >to get the labor he needs. Of course the worker demands the most he can
      >get. You don't see movie stars or sports figures saying, "No, 20 million
      >is
      >too much. I'm not greedy. Just pay me $12.50 an hour."
      >
      >A capitalist risks the funds he has accumulated in the hope of making a
      >profit. No profit is guaranteed and he could easily lose everything, as
      >happens every day. The worker risks little or nothing but is at least
      >assured of some income.
      >
      > Yes, CEO's are paid a lot of money. So are movie stars and sports
      >figures.
      >But they did not steal that money. No one was forced to pay it.
      >Apparently
      >the stockholders thought they were worth it. If the stockholders are
      >making
      >bad decisions, they will soon be stockholders no longer and wiser
      >stockholders will replace them. Having worked for many companies, however,
      >I can tell you that a good CEO can easily make the difference between a
      >successful company, which is great for the employees, and a bankrupt
      >company, which is usually a disaster for the employees.
      >
      >Economically, socialism (including Communism) never did make sense.
      >Politically, it has resulted in more death and misery than any other idea.
      >
      >Socialism continues only because it is pychologically satisfying to its
      >proponents. My guess is that socialists see themselves as children at war
      >with their parents, who have everything yet deny the children their whims.
      >Their "solution" is to destroy their parents (the white, capitalist
      >establishment). Socialists are driven by this hatred. The only underdog
      >they really care about is themselves, the spoiled children who lost
      >conflicts with their parents.
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: "John Thomson" <johnthomas15@...>
      >To: <express@yahoogroups.com>; <ACNet@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><AP_discuss@yahoogroups.com>; <AIT-IWA-talk-request@...>;
      ><WSA-talk-request@...>; <OneUnion-request@...>;
      ><Labour4Justice@...>; <anarchist-poc@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><anarchist-forum@yahoogroups.com>; <anarchy@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><LeftLibertarianism@yahoogroups.com>; <Break_The_Chains@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><TUNA2001@yahoogroups.com>; <anarchistlist@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><rts-ireland@yahoogroups.com>; <AnarchistYouth@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><no_masters_no_slaves@yahoogroups.com>; <ScabbedAngels@yahoogroups.com>;
      ><NYUISOmailing@yahoogroups.com>
      >Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 7:35 PM
      >Subject: [ACNet] MONEY MAKES MONEY
      >
      >
      > > Well, well ... UK news reports that the makers of Who Wants To Be A
      > > Millionaire (the desperate hope-for-a-passport-out-of-wage-slavery game
      >show
      > > syndicated around the world) "have defended the quiz show from
      >accusations
      > > of elitism".
      > >
      > > The latest winner in the British version of the show was apparently
      >already
      > > a millionaire (not surprising, maybe, considering the vast phone bill
      >the
      > > average contestant has to run up just trying to get on
      > > the show). And of course, who here can forget that a loaded cousin of
      > > Camilla Parker Bowles has also added to her fortune through WWTBAM?
      > >
      > > Wow! Maybe there's more to this show than we thought! If it's true that
      >only
      > > "millionaires and minor royals ever win" (as GMTV presenter Eamonn
      >Holmes
      > > apparently commented) then WWTBAM can be said to be underlining a truth
      > > about capitalist society: the richer you are the easier it is to get
      >richer.
      > >
      > > Millionaire company directors are routinely given vast benefits and
      >share
      > > options while those of us who actually do the work get below-inflation
      >pay
      > > deals and insults. When companies go down the flusher the directors and
      >top
      > > managers get a big pay-off while the employees get the boot and sod all
      >to
      > > soften the blow.
      > >
      > > Money attracts money and if you haven't got any, none is likely to come
      >your
      > > way. They can't too allow many of us to get out of the
      > > money trap, after all...
      > >
      > > Even if the average winner (out of how many tens of thousands of
      >desperate
      > > prospective contestants?) of WWTBAM was a debt-ridden proletarian - what
      > > difference would that make?
      > >
      > > Only the conscious actions of a democratically organised world working
      >class
      > > can free us from the poverty and insecurity of capitalism, which breeds
      > > shows like this.
      > >
      > > Alienation or liberation?
      > > Let's ask the audience...
      > >
      > >
      > > www.communities.msn.com/RealWorldSocialism
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      >
      >
      >
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      >


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    • Paul Bennett
      ... The remarks by Richard Fuerle are the exact opposite of the truth. Capitalism forces people to work, by saying You can only work for wages, on our terms,
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 2, 2001
        >Can anybody deal with this?
        >
        >
        >> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:44:51 -0400
        >> From: "Richard Fuerle" <rdfuerle@...>
        >>Subject: Re: MONEY MAKES MONEY
        >>
        >>There are only two ways to get things done: either you let people work
        >>together voluntarily to do it or you force them to do it. Capitalism is
        >>the
        >>former, socialism is the latter.
        >>

        How about the following as a nice simple reply:

        -------------
        The remarks by Richard Fuerle are the exact opposite of the truth. Capitalism
        forces people to work, by saying 'You can only work for wages, on our terms, and
        as long as you enable us to make a profit.' Socialism is based on people
        voluntarily cooperating to produce the world's wealth, without anyone
        individually owning a factory or being able to dictate to others how and when
        they may work.
        -------------

        Paul Bennett
      • John Thomson
        Thanks Paul Done Can you do as well yestardays letter, please? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 2, 2001
          Thanks Paul
          Done
          Can you do as well yestardays letter, please?

          _________________________________________________________________
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