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Puzzle-fueled Social News

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  • Amir Michail
    From: http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/ Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot? Convinced that you are smarter than
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 28, 2008
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      From: http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/

      "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot? Convinced
      that you are smarter than the combined user base of those two and
      Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
      submissions.

      With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg and Fark,
      as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your submission
      gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points based on
      their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the site. The
      more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
      submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your score is
      divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking one and
      really making it count unless you want to spend hours on the site."

      Check it out:

      http://numbrosia.com

      Amir

      P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:

      http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
    • Shelley Chang
      It s a fun idea, but I don t think it s the solution. Your skills at one particular type of puzzle game don t necessarily indicate good judgment on news
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 28, 2008
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        It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your skills at
        one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate good
        judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I want to
        read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
        person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to promote.
        And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the game to
        check out the social news.

        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
        <amichail@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
        >
        > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot? Convinced
        > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those two and
        > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
        > submissions.
        >
        > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg and Fark,
        > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your submission
        > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points based on
        > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the site. The
        > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
        > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your score is
        > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking one and
        > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on the site."
        >
        > Check it out:
        >
        > http://numbrosia.com
        >
        > Amir
        >
        > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
        >
        > http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
        >
      • Amir Michail
        ... It s an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I m also working on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more people. Note that it
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 28, 2008
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          On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
          > It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your skills at
          > one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate good
          > judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I want to
          > read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
          > person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to promote.
          > And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the game to
          > check out the social news.

          It's an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'm also working
          on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more
          people.

          Note that it is hard to get a meritocracy out of voting-based social
          news. As you get more users, the quality of submissions and
          discussion goes down. One might try giving people who predict
          popular submissions early greater weight in voting, but even that will
          not necessarily give you a meritocracy.

          Measuring the news submitter's intelligence is more direct.

          Amir

          >
          > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
          >
          > <amichail@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
          > >
          > > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot? Convinced
          > > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those two and
          > > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
          > > submissions.
          > >
          > > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg and Fark,
          > > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your submission
          > > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points based on
          > > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the site. The
          > > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
          > > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your score is
          > > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking one and
          > > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on the site."
          > >
          > > Check it out:
          > >
          > > http://numbrosia.com
          > >
          > > Amir
          > >
          > > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
          > >
          > > http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
          > >
          >
          >
        • Shelley Chang
          But you re not measuring their intelligence, you re measuring their skills on a very specific game that has little to do with their judgment in deciding what
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 28, 2008
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            But you're not measuring their intelligence, you're measuring their
            skills on a very specific game that has little to do with their
            judgment in deciding what news items to promote. And anyone can beat
            the system by spending hours on the game to earn enough points to get
            their submissions to the top.

            I'm just being nitpicky now. I think the game's fun, I just question
            its application as a social news site.


            --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
            <amichail@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
            > > It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your skills at
            > > one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate good
            > > judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I
            want to
            > > read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
            > > person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to promote.
            > > And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the game to
            > > check out the social news.
            >
            > It's an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'm also working
            > on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more
            > people.
            >
            > Note that it is hard to get a meritocracy out of voting-based social
            > news. As you get more users, the quality of submissions and
            > discussion goes down. One might try giving people who predict
            > popular submissions early greater weight in voting, but even that will
            > not necessarily give you a meritocracy.
            >
            > Measuring the news submitter's intelligence is more direct.
            >
            > Amir
            >
            > >
            > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
            > >
            > > <amichail@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > From: http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
            > > >
            > > > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot? Convinced
            > > > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those two and
            > > > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
            > > > submissions.
            > > >
            > > > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg
            and Fark,
            > > > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your
            submission
            > > > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points
            based on
            > > > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the
            site. The
            > > > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
            > > > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your score is
            > > > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking
            one and
            > > > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on the site."
            > > >
            > > > Check it out:
            > > >
            > > > http://numbrosia.com
            > > >
            > > > Amir
            > > >
            > > > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
            > > >
            > > > http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Amir Michail
            ... Yes, you do get at least 10 points for passing a level no matter how badly you do. If I wanted to better measure intelligence, I would not give you any
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 28, 2008
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              On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
              > But you're not measuring their intelligence, you're measuring their
              > skills on a very specific game that has little to do with their
              > judgment in deciding what news items to promote. And anyone can beat
              > the system by spending hours on the game to earn enough points to get
              > their submissions to the top.
              >

              Yes, you do get at least 10 points for passing a level no matter how
              badly you do. If I wanted to better measure intelligence, I would not
              give you any points unless you beat the median score say. However,
              the current system is used to encourage people to play -- even ones
              who are not very good.

              As for whether I am measuring intelligence in a very limited fashion,
              I disagree on that. See for example:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor

              Amir

              > I'm just being nitpicky now. I think the game's fun, I just question
              > its application as a social news site.
              >
              >
              > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
              > <amichail@...> wrote:
              > >
              >
              > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
              > > > It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your skills at
              > > > one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate good
              > > > judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I
              > want to
              > > > read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
              > > > person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to promote.
              > > > And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the game to
              > > > check out the social news.
              > >
              > > It's an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'm also working
              > > on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more
              > > people.
              > >
              > > Note that it is hard to get a meritocracy out of voting-based social
              > > news. As you get more users, the quality of submissions and
              > > discussion goes down. One might try giving people who predict
              > > popular submissions early greater weight in voting, but even that will
              > > not necessarily give you a meritocracy.
              > >
              > > Measuring the news submitter's intelligence is more direct.
              > >
              > > Amir
              > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
              > > >
              > > > <amichail@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > From: http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
              > > > >
              > > > > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot? Convinced
              > > > > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those two and
              > > > > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
              > > > > submissions.
              > > > >
              > > > > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg
              > and Fark,
              > > > > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your
              > submission
              > > > > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points
              > based on
              > > > > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the
              > site. The
              > > > > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
              > > > > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your score is
              > > > > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking
              > one and
              > > > > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on the site."
              > > > >
              > > > > Check it out:
              > > > >
              > > > > http://numbrosia.com
              > > > >
              > > > > Amir
              > > > >
              > > > > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
              > > > >
              > > > > http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
            • Adam P. Larsen
              If you re only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you re not tapping into Spearman s g with any impressive reliability or validity. You might be
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 29, 2008
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                If you're only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you're not
                tapping into Spearman's g with any impressive reliability or validity.
                You might be hitting a type of s, but even that is pushing it.

                I've studied intelligence theory rather extensively, and I use
                applications of the research in my day job. I also do a lot of
                speedcubing, and I'm not willing to posit, even hypothetically, that a
                Rubik's cube is anything like an intelligence test.

                That said, I'm sure your website could be lots of fun. Just some
                things to think about.

                aplarsen

                --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                <amichail@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
                > > But you're not measuring their intelligence, you're measuring their
                > > skills on a very specific game that has little to do with their
                > > judgment in deciding what news items to promote. And anyone can beat
                > > the system by spending hours on the game to earn enough points to get
                > > their submissions to the top.
                > >
                >
                > Yes, you do get at least 10 points for passing a level no matter how
                > badly you do. If I wanted to better measure intelligence, I would not
                > give you any points unless you beat the median score say. However,
                > the current system is used to encourage people to play -- even ones
                > who are not very good.
                >
                > As for whether I am measuring intelligence in a very limited fashion,
                > I disagree on that. See for example:
                >
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor
                >
                > Amir
                >
                > > I'm just being nitpicky now. I think the game's fun, I just question
                > > its application as a social news site.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                > > <amichail@> wrote:
                > > >
                > >
                > > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@> wrote:
                > > > > It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your
                skills at
                > > > > one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate
                good
                > > > > judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I
                > > want to
                > > > > read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
                > > > > person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to
                promote.
                > > > > And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the
                game to
                > > > > check out the social news.
                > > >
                > > > It's an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'm also working
                > > > on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more
                > > > people.
                > > >
                > > > Note that it is hard to get a meritocracy out of voting-based
                social
                > > > news. As you get more users, the quality of submissions and
                > > > discussion goes down. One might try giving people who predict
                > > > popular submissions early greater weight in voting, but even
                that will
                > > > not necessarily give you a meritocracy.
                > > >
                > > > Measuring the news submitter's intelligence is more direct.
                > > >
                > > > Amir
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                > > > >
                > > > > <amichail@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > From:
                http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
                > > > > >
                > > > > > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot?
                Convinced
                > > > > > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those
                two and
                > > > > > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
                > > > > > submissions.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg
                > > and Fark,
                > > > > > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your
                > > submission
                > > > > > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points
                > > based on
                > > > > > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the
                > > site. The
                > > > > > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
                > > > > > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your
                score is
                > > > > > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking
                > > one and
                > > > > > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on
                the site."
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Check it out:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > http://numbrosia.com
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Amir
                > > > > >
                > > > > > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Amir Michail
                ... I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik s Cube in a reasonably short period of
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 30, 2008
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                  On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Adam P. Larsen <aplarsen@...> wrote:
                  > If you're only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you're not
                  > tapping into Spearman's g with any impressive reliability or validity.
                  > You might be hitting a type of s, but even that is pushing it.
                  >
                  > I've studied intelligence theory rather extensively, and I use
                  > applications of the research in my day job. I also do a lot of
                  > speedcubing, and I'm not willing to posit, even hypothetically, that a
                  > Rubik's cube is anything like an intelligence test.

                  I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math
                  training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik's Cube in a
                  reasonably short period of time, then I would expect that to be strong
                  evidence of high IQ (say 140+).

                  Amir

                  >
                  > That said, I'm sure your website could be lots of fun. Just some
                  > things to think about.
                  >
                  > aplarsen
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                  > <amichail@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  >
                  > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
                  > > > But you're not measuring their intelligence, you're measuring their
                  > > > skills on a very specific game that has little to do with their
                  > > > judgment in deciding what news items to promote. And anyone can beat
                  > > > the system by spending hours on the game to earn enough points to get
                  > > > their submissions to the top.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > Yes, you do get at least 10 points for passing a level no matter how
                  > > badly you do. If I wanted to better measure intelligence, I would not
                  > > give you any points unless you beat the median score say. However,
                  > > the current system is used to encourage people to play -- even ones
                  > > who are not very good.
                  > >
                  > > As for whether I am measuring intelligence in a very limited fashion,
                  > > I disagree on that. See for example:
                  > >
                  > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor
                  > >
                  > > Amir
                  > >
                  > > > I'm just being nitpicky now. I think the game's fun, I just question
                  > > > its application as a social news site.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                  > > > <amichail@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@> wrote:
                  > > > > > It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your
                  > skills at
                  > > > > > one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate
                  > good
                  > > > > > judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I
                  > > > want to
                  > > > > > read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
                  > > > > > person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to
                  > promote.
                  > > > > > And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the
                  > game to
                  > > > > > check out the social news.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It's an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'm also working
                  > > > > on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more
                  > > > > people.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Note that it is hard to get a meritocracy out of voting-based
                  > social
                  > > > > news. As you get more users, the quality of submissions and
                  > > > > discussion goes down. One might try giving people who predict
                  > > > > popular submissions early greater weight in voting, but even
                  > that will
                  > > > > not necessarily give you a meritocracy.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Measuring the news submitter's intelligence is more direct.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Amir
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > <amichail@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > From:
                  > http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot?
                  > Convinced
                  > > > > > > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those
                  > two and
                  > > > > > > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
                  > > > > > > submissions.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg
                  > > > and Fark,
                  > > > > > > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your
                  > > > submission
                  > > > > > > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points
                  > > > based on
                  > > > > > > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the
                  > > > site. The
                  > > > > > > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
                  > > > > > > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your
                  > score is
                  > > > > > > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking
                  > > > one and
                  > > > > > > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on
                  > the site."
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Check it out:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > http://numbrosia.com
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Amir
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                • Eric Brunson
                  ... I completely disagree. The cube is the sort of thing an autistic child might be good at. Just my opinion, though.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 30, 2008
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                    --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail" <amichail@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Adam P. Larsen <aplarsen@...> wrote:
                    > > If you're only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you're not
                    > > tapping into Spearman's g with any impressive reliability or validity.
                    > > You might be hitting a type of s, but even that is pushing it.
                    > >
                    > > I've studied intelligence theory rather extensively, and I use
                    > > applications of the research in my day job. I also do a lot of
                    > > speedcubing, and I'm not willing to posit, even hypothetically, that a
                    > > Rubik's cube is anything like an intelligence test.
                    >
                    > I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math
                    > training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik's Cube in a
                    > reasonably short period of time, then I would expect that to be strong
                    > evidence of high IQ (say 140+).
                    >

                    I completely disagree. The cube is the sort of thing an autistic child might be good at.

                    Just my opinion, though.
                  • Adam P. Larsen
                    ... validity. ... that a ... child might be good at. ... Wait, what? I don t know what you re trying to say here. What does autism have to do with this?
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 30, 2008
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                      --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Brunson"
                      <ericbrunson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                      <amichail@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Adam P. Larsen <aplarsen@> wrote:
                      > > > If you're only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you're not
                      > > > tapping into Spearman's g with any impressive reliability or
                      validity.
                      > > > You might be hitting a type of s, but even that is pushing it.
                      > > >
                      > > > I've studied intelligence theory rather extensively, and I use
                      > > > applications of the research in my day job. I also do a lot of
                      > > > speedcubing, and I'm not willing to posit, even hypothetically,
                      that a
                      > > > Rubik's cube is anything like an intelligence test.
                      > >
                      > > I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math
                      > > training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik's Cube in a
                      > > reasonably short period of time, then I would expect that to be strong
                      > > evidence of high IQ (say 140+).
                      > >
                      >
                      > I completely disagree. The cube is the sort of thing an autistic
                      child might be good at.
                      >
                      > Just my opinion, though.
                      >
                      Wait, what? I don't know what you're trying to say here. What does
                      autism have to do with this?
                    • Shelley Chang
                      ... validity. ... that a ... Well, it depends on how you play with the cube. There s memorizing lots of different algorithms and techniques and being able to
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 30, 2008
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                        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                        <amichail@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Adam P. Larsen <aplarsen@...> wrote:
                        > > If you're only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you're not
                        > > tapping into Spearman's g with any impressive reliability or
                        validity.
                        > > You might be hitting a type of s, but even that is pushing it.
                        > >
                        > > I've studied intelligence theory rather extensively, and I use
                        > > applications of the research in my day job. I also do a lot of
                        > > speedcubing, and I'm not willing to posit, even hypothetically,
                        that a
                        > > Rubik's cube is anything like an intelligence test.
                        >
                        > I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math
                        > training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik's Cube in a
                        > reasonably short period of time, then I would expect that to be strong
                        > evidence of high IQ (say 140+).
                        >
                        > Amir
                        >

                        Well, it depends on how you play with the cube. There's memorizing
                        lots of different algorithms and techniques and being able to apply
                        them fluently after lots of practice, which is what a lot of
                        speedcubers (probably most of us) are doing now. That doesn't
                        necessarily take a high IQ. Then there's solving intuitively and
                        figuring out algorithms for yourself without referring to outside
                        help, in which case the cube acts more as an indicator of intelligence.
                      • Ole Petersen
                        What is the best method in speed cubing? Adam P. Larsen skrev: If you re only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you re
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 31, 2008
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                          What is the best method in speed cubing?

                          "Adam P. Larsen" <aplarsen@...> skrev: If you're only measuring a sliver of one skill area, then you're not
                          tapping into Spearman's g with any impressive reliability or validity.
                          You might be hitting a type of s, but even that is pushing it.

                          I've studied intelligence theory rather extensively, and I use
                          applications of the research in my day job. I also do a lot of
                          speedcubing, and I'm not willing to posit, even hypothetically, that a
                          Rubik's cube is anything like an intelligence test.

                          That said, I'm sure your website could be lots of fun. Just some
                          things to think about.

                          aplarsen

                          --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                          <amichail@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@...> wrote:
                          > > But you're not measuring their intelligence, you're measuring their
                          > > skills on a very specific game that has little to do with their
                          > > judgment in deciding what news items to promote. And anyone can beat
                          > > the system by spending hours on the game to earn enough points to get
                          > > their submissions to the top.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Yes, you do get at least 10 points for passing a level no matter how
                          > badly you do. If I wanted to better measure intelligence, I would not
                          > give you any points unless you beat the median score say. However,
                          > the current system is used to encourage people to play -- even ones
                          > who are not very good.
                          >
                          > As for whether I am measuring intelligence in a very limited fashion,
                          > I disagree on that. See for example:
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor
                          >
                          > Amir
                          >
                          > > I'm just being nitpicky now. I think the game's fun, I just question
                          > > its application as a social news site.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                          > > <amichail@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Shelley Chang <shelchang@> wrote:
                          > > > > It's a fun idea, but I don't think it's the solution. Your
                          skills at
                          > > > > one particular type of puzzle game don't necessarily indicate
                          good
                          > > > > judgment on news submissions. When I use a social news site, I
                          > > want to
                          > > > > read what people think is interesting and relevant, not what one
                          > > > > person who spent way too much time playing a game wants to
                          promote.
                          > > > > And when I play puzzle games, I'll be too occupied with the
                          game to
                          > > > > check out the social news.
                          > > >
                          > > > It's an experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'm also working
                          > > > on a word-based puzzle version that will probably appeal to more
                          > > > people.
                          > > >
                          > > > Note that it is hard to get a meritocracy out of voting-based
                          social
                          > > > news. As you get more users, the quality of submissions and
                          > > > discussion goes down. One might try giving people who predict
                          > > > popular submissions early greater weight in voting, but even
                          that will
                          > > > not necessarily give you a meritocracy.
                          > > >
                          > > > Measuring the news submitter's intelligence is more direct.
                          > > >
                          > > > Amir
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                          > > > >
                          > > > > <amichail@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > From:
                          http://www.profy.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > "Tired of the news you are finding on Digg and Slashdot?
                          Convinced
                          > > > > > that you are smarter than the combined user base of those
                          two and
                          > > > > > Fark? Numbrosia thinks they have the solution: merit-based news
                          > > > > > submissions.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > With Numbrosia, gone are the "everyone votes" models of Digg
                          > > and Fark,
                          > > > > > as well as the editorial control of Slashdot. Instead, your
                          > > submission
                          > > > > > gets floated or sunk based on merit. Users earn merit points
                          > > based on
                          > > > > > their daily score earned completing the logic puzzles on the
                          > > site. The
                          > > > > > more time you spend (and points you earn), the more likely your
                          > > > > > submission is to make it to more eyeballs. Of course, your
                          score is
                          > > > > > divided across your submissions, so you are better off picking
                          > > one and
                          > > > > > really making it count unless you want to spend hours on
                          the site."
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Check it out:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > http://numbrosia.com
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Amir
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > P.S. Also see the TechCrunch post:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/16/numbrosia-merit-based-news/
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >






                          ---------------------------------

                          Trænger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud på LCD TV!

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Brewer, Neil
                          Does anyone know where I can find the video of Tyson s appearance on Leno? It s quite funny and I wanted to show a friend, but I can t find a working YouTube
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 31, 2008
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                            Does anyone know where I can find the video of Tyson's appearance on Leno? It's quite funny and I wanted to show a friend, but I can't find a working YouTube link.

                            Thanks,
                            Neil


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Eric Brunson
                            ... strong ... I m using it as an extreme example. Speedsolving is the kind of mechanical, repetitive task that can be mastered with memorization, pattern
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 31, 2008
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                              --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Adam P. Larsen"
                              <aplarsen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Brunson"
                              > <ericbrunson@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                              > <amichail@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math
                              > > > training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik's Cube in a
                              > > > reasonably short period of time, then I would expect that to be
                              strong
                              > > > evidence of high IQ (say 140+).
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > I completely disagree. The cube is the sort of thing an autistic
                              > child might be good at.
                              > >
                              > > Just my opinion, though.
                              > >
                              > Wait, what? I don't know what you're trying to say here. What does
                              > autism have to do with this?
                              >

                              I'm using it as an extreme example.

                              Speedsolving is the kind of mechanical, repetitive task that can be
                              mastered with memorization, pattern recognition and manual dexterity
                              and doesn't require advanced intelligence. An autistic child was the
                              most dramatic example that I could come up with of someone that would
                              could possess those skill in excess of the general population, but
                              still have an overall intelligence that precluded normal, day to day
                              living.

                              I feel chess falls into that same category. People associate chess
                              with intelligence, but anyone that's competed above 1700 can tell you
                              there are some great chess players who won't wow you with any feat of
                              intelligence except over the board.

                              Playing the piano, too.

                              e.
                            • Pat (PJK)
                              http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=2728&highlight=leno ... -- My Webpage: http://www.pjkcubed.com Speedsolving Puzzles: http://www.speedsolving.com
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 31, 2008
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                                http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=2728&highlight=leno

                                On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Brewer, Neil <neil.brewer@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Does anyone know where I can find the video of Tyson's appearance on Leno?
                                > It's quite funny and I wanted to show a friend, but I can't find a working
                                > YouTube link.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                > Neil
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                My Webpage: http://www.pjkcubed.com
                                Speedsolving Puzzles: http://www.speedsolving.com
                                Computer Cleanup: http://www.cleancomputerhelp.com
                              • Tyson Mao
                                Leyan was actually the one who unhooked the bras.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 31, 2008
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                                  Leyan was actually the one who unhooked the bras.

                                  On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Pat (PJK) <pjkcards@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=2728&highlight=leno
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Brewer, Neil <neil.brewer@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Does anyone know where I can find the video of Tyson's appearance on
                                  > Leno?
                                  > > It's quite funny and I wanted to show a friend, but I can't find a
                                  > working
                                  > > YouTube link.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks,
                                  > > Neil
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > My Webpage: http://www.pjkcubed.com
                                  > Speedsolving Puzzles: http://www.speedsolving.com
                                  > Computer Cleanup: http://www.cleancomputerhelp.com
                                  >
                                • Adam P. Larsen
                                  ... Autism and intelligence are not correlated with each other, so extreme example or otherwise, it s not correct. If you want to say that a person with
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 1, 2008
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                                    --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Brunson"
                                    <ericbrunson@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Adam P. Larsen"
                                    > <aplarsen@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Brunson"
                                    > > <ericbrunson@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Amir Michail"
                                    > > <amichail@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I find what you say surprising! If someone without advanced math
                                    > > > > training discovers an algorithm for solving Rubik's Cube in a
                                    > > > > reasonably short period of time, then I would expect that to be
                                    > strong
                                    > > > > evidence of high IQ (say 140+).
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I completely disagree. The cube is the sort of thing an autistic
                                    > > child might be good at.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Just my opinion, though.
                                    > > >
                                    > > Wait, what? I don't know what you're trying to say here. What does
                                    > > autism have to do with this?
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > I'm using it as an extreme example.
                                    >
                                    > Speedsolving is the kind of mechanical, repetitive task that can be
                                    > mastered with memorization, pattern recognition and manual dexterity
                                    > and doesn't require advanced intelligence. An autistic child was the
                                    > most dramatic example that I could come up with of someone that would
                                    > could possess those skill in excess of the general population, but
                                    > still have an overall intelligence that precluded normal, day to day
                                    > living.
                                    >
                                    > I feel chess falls into that same category. People associate chess
                                    > with intelligence, but anyone that's competed above 1700 can tell you
                                    > there are some great chess players who won't wow you with any feat of
                                    > intelligence except over the board.
                                    >
                                    > Playing the piano, too.
                                    >
                                    > e.
                                    >
                                    Autism and intelligence are not correlated with each other, so extreme
                                    example or otherwise, it's not correct.

                                    If you want to say that a person with average intelligence can learn
                                    and rehearse speedsolving, then say that.

                                    Adam
                                  • Stefan Pochmann
                                    ... Autistics seem to be taken care of by family so don t have a job and instead have a lot of time to spend with their hobbies, often focusing on few things
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 2, 2008
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                                      --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Adam P.
                                      Larsen" <aplarsen@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Autism and intelligence are not correlated with each other, so
                                      > extreme example or otherwise, it's not correct.

                                      Autistics seem to be taken care of by family so don't have a job and
                                      instead have a lot of time to spend with their hobbies, often
                                      focusing on few things they then do obsessively and excel in. At
                                      least according to documentaries which pick some and glorify them.

                                      Cheers!
                                      Stefan
                                    • Adam P. Larsen
                                      ... Wow, that s a lot of pretty sweeping generalizations. Have you guys ever even seen/worked with someone who has autism?
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 3, 2008
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                                        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann"
                                        <stefan.pochmann@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Adam P.
                                        > Larsen" <aplarsen@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Autism and intelligence are not correlated with each other, so
                                        > > extreme example or otherwise, it's not correct.
                                        >
                                        > Autistics seem to be taken care of by family so don't have a job and
                                        > instead have a lot of time to spend with their hobbies, often
                                        > focusing on few things they then do obsessively and excel in. At
                                        > least according to documentaries which pick some and glorify them.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers!
                                        > Stefan
                                        >
                                        Wow, that's a lot of pretty sweeping generalizations. Have you guys
                                        ever even seen/worked with someone who has autism?
                                      • Stefan Pochmann
                                        ... and ... Wow, I think you stopped reading right between my two sentences. Cheers! Stefan
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Apr 3, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Adam P.
                                          Larsen" <aplarsen@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann"
                                          > <stefan.pochmann@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Adam P.
                                          > > Larsen" <aplarsen@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Autism and intelligence are not correlated with each other, so
                                          > > > extreme example or otherwise, it's not correct.
                                          > >
                                          > > Autistics seem to be taken care of by family so don't have a job
                                          and
                                          > > instead have a lot of time to spend with their hobbies, often
                                          > > focusing on few things they then do obsessively and excel in. At
                                          > > least according to documentaries which pick some and glorify them.
                                          > >
                                          > > Cheers!
                                          > > Stefan
                                          > >
                                          > Wow, that's a lot of pretty sweeping generalizations. Have you guys
                                          > ever even seen/worked with someone who has autism?
                                          >

                                          Wow, I think you stopped reading right between my two sentences.

                                          Cheers!
                                          Stefan
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