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speed cubing

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  • anand_chhettri
    I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that do i have to
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 29, 2006
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      I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a
      set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that
      do i have to remember some 70-80 algorithms?How does one manage to do
      that especially if i were to remember all of jessica friedrich's
      algorithm it would take a million more years . can somebod y help me?
    • Matt M.
      Practice, practice, practice. Spend some time studying the first-two-layer algorithms. They re simple enough to understand how they work without just
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 29, 2006
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        Practice, practice, practice.

        Spend some time studying the first-two-layer algorithms. They're
        simple enough to understand how they work without just "memorizing"
        them. Speed doesn't just come from memorizing algorithms, it comes
        from understanding what you're doing, being able to plan ahead, and
        developing dexterity in your fingers.

        You can do all of that without memorizing anything, if you want. You
        should easily be able to solve the cube in under a minute even with
        your basic solution.

        But by then you'll be addicted, and you'll decide it's worth it to
        memorize 70 algorithms. :-)

        - Matt

        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "anand_chhettri"
        <anand_chhettri@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a
        > set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that
        > do i have to remember some 70-80 algorithms?How does one manage to do
        > that especially if i were to remember all of jessica friedrich's
        > algorithm it would take a million more years . can somebod y help me?
        >
      • Ryan Heise
        ... Hi, a good understanding of the cube can save you from memorisation. The solving strategy is an important factor, however. A method such as Fridrich puts
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 29, 2006
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          On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 01:42:47PM -0000, anand_chhettri wrote:
          > I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a
          > set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that
          > do i have to remember some 70-80 algorithms?How does one manage to do
          > that especially if i were to remember all of jessica friedrich's
          > algorithm it would take a million more years . can somebod y help me?

          Hi, a good understanding of the cube can save you from memorisation.
          The solving strategy is an important factor, however. A method such as
          Fridrich puts the cube in highly symetric positions in the last stages,
          which lends itself well to memorisation but not understanding. If you
          would like to apply understanding, then you will want to avoid those
          symetric positions.

          --
          Ryan Heise
          http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/
        • broncoviper
          Hello, It actually isn t all that bad. I solved my very first cube in late February of this year. The first solve probably took me around 5 hours total (on
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 29, 2006
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            Hello,
            It actually isn't all that bad. I solved my very first cube in late
            February of this year. The first solve probably took me around 5
            hours total (on and off for about a day and a half). After that, I
            wrote up my own little algorithms that I pulled off certain pages.
            There were 13 in total. I just started practicing them whenever I had
            a chance. It took me 1-2 weeks to memorize all 13, and I wasn't
            really trying to memorize, they just came to fit my hands. My goal
            was to get below 1 minute. I reached my goal fairly quickly. Now, I
            can average under 30 seconds. I typed up a guide that I felt was
            really easy to understand and would help newer people learn to solve.
            Check it out here:
            http://www40.brinkster.com/patjk/beginners.html

            Towards the bottom I provided an example solve using that method.
            Once you have that method mastered, its time to move onto Fridrich.
            Check out my speedcubing page at:
            http://www40.brinkster.com/patjk/fast.html

            I also provided an example solve using pure Fridrich towards the
            bottom there. Learning all the algorithms sounds tough, but it isn't.
            When you get time, just sit down, and learn maybe 1-2 algorithms each
            day. The F2L is mostly intiution, so you actually see more about what
            is happening, and not really learning an algorithm. I have most F2L
            cases down, all PLL cases, and I need maybe 30 more OLL algorithms to
            memorize. Once I get all the OLLs, I am going to go back and learn
            new tricks for the F2L, and that should take my time don 7-10 seconds.
            Just practice, practice, practice. Don't give up. Find a friend to
            get interested in the cube with so you can compete against eachother.
            Good luck,
            Patrick

            --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Heise <ryan@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 01:42:47PM -0000, anand_chhettri wrote:
            > > I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a
            > > set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that
            > > do i have to remember some 70-80 algorithms?How does one manage to do
            > > that especially if i were to remember all of jessica friedrich's
            > > algorithm it would take a million more years . can somebod y help me?
            >
            > Hi, a good understanding of the cube can save you from memorisation.
            > The solving strategy is an important factor, however. A method such as
            > Fridrich puts the cube in highly symetric positions in the last stages,
            > which lends itself well to memorisation but not understanding. If you
            > would like to apply understanding, then you will want to avoid those
            > symetric positions.
            >
            > --
            > Ryan Heise
            > http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/
            >
          • anand chhetri
            hi, thanks for the information and the encouragement.Just wanted to ask how many algos do you use to get into the sub 30s.I went thru yer site .its gr8 and
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 29, 2006
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              hi,
              thanks for the information and the encouragement.Just wanted to ask how many algos do you use to get into the sub 30s.I went thru yer site .its gr8 and helpful.
              thanks again
              bye ,
              Anand

              broncoviper <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              Hello,
              It actually isn't all that bad. I solved my very first cube in late
              February of this year. The first solve probably took me around 5
              hours total (on and off for about a day and a half). After that, I
              wrote up my own little algorithms that I pulled off certain pages.
              There were 13 in total. I just started practicing them whenever I had
              a chance. It took me 1-2 weeks to memorize all 13, and I wasn't
              really trying to memorize, they just came to fit my hands. My goal
              was to get below 1 minute. I reached my goal fairly quickly. Now, I
              can average under 30 seconds. I typed up a guide that I felt was
              really easy to understand and would help newer people learn to solve.
              Check it out here:
              http://www40.brinkster.com/patjk/beginners.html

              Towards the bottom I provided an example solve using that method.
              Once you have that method mastered, its time to move onto Fridrich.
              Check out my speedcubing page at:
              http://www40.brinkster.com/patjk/fast.html

              I also provided an example solve using pure Fridrich towards the
              bottom there. Learning all the algorithms sounds tough, but it isn't.
              When you get time, just sit down, and learn maybe 1-2 algorithms each
              day. The F2L is mostly intiution, so you actually see more about what
              is happening, and not really learning an algorithm. I have most F2L
              cases down, all PLL cases, and I need maybe 30 more OLL algorithms to
              memorize. Once I get all the OLLs, I am going to go back and learn
              new tricks for the F2L, and that should take my time don 7-10 seconds.
              Just practice, practice, practice. Don't give up. Find a friend to
              get interested in the cube with so you can compete against eachother.
              Good luck,
              Patrick

              --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Heise <ryan@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 01:42:47PM -0000, anand_chhettri wrote:
              > > I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a
              > > set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that
              > > do i have to remember some 70-80 algorithms?How does one manage to do
              > > that especially if i were to remember all of jessica friedrich's
              > > algorithm it would take a million more years . can somebod y help me?
              >
              > Hi, a good understanding of the cube can save you from memorisation.
              > The solving strategy is an important factor, however. A method such as
              > Fridrich puts the cube in highly symetric positions in the last stages,
              > which lends itself well to memorisation but not understanding. If you
              > would like to apply understanding, then you will want to avoid those
              > symetric positions.
              >
              > --
              > Ryan Heise
              > http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/
              >






              ---------------------------------
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ron van Bruchem
              Hi Anand, It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last layer. For that you need to learn: EO) Edge orientation (3 cases) CO) Corner orientation
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 29, 2006
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                Hi Anand,

                It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last layer.
                For that you need to learn:
                EO) Edge orientation (3 cases)
                CO) Corner orientation (7 cases)
                CP) Corner permutation (2 cases)
                EP) Edge permutation (4 cases)
                Total of 16 cases.

                This will be the first step towards learning all 78 cases.
                After that you can combine CP and EP (15 more cases).
                And slowly combine EO and CO. Like first learn all cases with 4 flipped
                edges.

                F2L is mainly intuitive, although for some tougher cases most of the guys
                here use algorithms.

                Have fun,

                Ron


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: anand chhetri
                To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 8:24 AM
                Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: speed cubing


                hi,
                thanks for the information and the encouragement.Just wanted to ask how many
                algos do you use to get into the sub 30s.I went thru yer site .its gr8 and
                helpful.
                thanks again
                bye ,
                Anand

                broncoviper <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                Hello,
                It actually isn't all that bad. I solved my very first cube in late
                February of this year. The first solve probably took me around 5
                hours total (on and off for about a day and a half). After that, I
                wrote up my own little algorithms that I pulled off certain pages.
                There were 13 in total. I just started practicing them whenever I had
                a chance. It took me 1-2 weeks to memorize all 13, and I wasn't
                really trying to memorize, they just came to fit my hands. My goal
                was to get below 1 minute. I reached my goal fairly quickly. Now, I
                can average under 30 seconds. I typed up a guide that I felt was
                really easy to understand and would help newer people learn to solve.
                Check it out here:
                http://www40.brinkster.com/patjk/beginners.html

                Towards the bottom I provided an example solve using that method.
                Once you have that method mastered, its time to move onto Fridrich.
                Check out my speedcubing page at:
                http://www40.brinkster.com/patjk/fast.html

                I also provided an example solve using pure Fridrich towards the
                bottom there. Learning all the algorithms sounds tough, but it isn't.
                When you get time, just sit down, and learn maybe 1-2 algorithms each
                day. The F2L is mostly intiution, so you actually see more about what
                is happening, and not really learning an algorithm. I have most F2L
                cases down, all PLL cases, and I need maybe 30 more OLL algorithms to
                memorize. Once I get all the OLLs, I am going to go back and learn
                new tricks for the F2L, and that should take my time don 7-10 seconds.
                Just practice, practice, practice. Don't give up. Find a friend to
                get interested in the cube with so you can compete against eachother.
                Good luck,
                Patrick

                --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Heise <ryan@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 01:42:47PM -0000, anand_chhettri wrote:
                > > I have recently started solving the cube..and i can solve it using a
                > > set of beginners algorithms .but i want to reduce my time and for that
                > > do i have to remember some 70-80 algorithms?How does one manage to do
                > > that especially if i were to remember all of jessica friedrich's
                > > algorithm it would take a million more years . can somebod y help me?
                >
                > Hi, a good understanding of the cube can save you from memorisation.
                > The solving strategy is an important factor, however. A method such as
                > Fridrich puts the cube in highly symetric positions in the last stages,
                > which lends itself well to memorisation but not understanding. If you
                > would like to apply understanding, then you will want to avoid those
                > symetric positions.
                >
                > --
                > Ryan Heise
                > http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/
                >


                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here
                Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on Yahoo! India Click here

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lars Petrus
                ... LIke I may have said before: All that learning more than a few (around 5, say) algorithms will do is to cut 5-15 moves off your solutions. Which should be
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 30, 2006
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                  On Jun 29, 2006, at 23:41, Ron van Bruchem wrote:

                  > It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last layer.

                  LIke I may have said before:

                  All that learning more than a few (around 5, say) algorithms will do
                  is to cut 5-15 moves off your solutions. Which should be 10%-30% of
                  your moves, and less of your time.

                  If this is right, the people averaging 15 sec should be able to
                  average under 18 using only the basic algs. Don't know if that's
                  true, but I'd be real surprised if it's far off.

                  But my point is that there is nothing wrong in learning algorithms,
                  and you need to know a lot to be real fast, but it's a very small
                  part of your journey from 1 minute to sub 20. Really just those 3-5
                  last seconds.

                  - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  "The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet."
                  --- William Gibson

                  Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com
                • Per Kristen Fredlund
                  Hi :-) About 4-look last layer (LL). I use that for my 3x3x3 speedsolving. In terms of number of moves it s not very efficient at all (the way i do it at
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 30, 2006
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                    Hi :-)

                    About 4-look last layer (LL). I use that for my 3x3x3 speedsolving.
                    In terms of number of moves it's not very efficient at all (the way
                    i do it at least). There are at least a few reasonable scenarios for
                    a 4-step LL.

                    - position corners (PC), orient corners (OC), orient edges (OE) and
                    finally position edges (PE)

                    This is what i do basically, but there are some bad cases for
                    orienting edges after solving the corners so i sometimes divert and
                    do 2 edge 3-cycle instead of OE + PE. Or i may do the edge 4-flip in
                    just 1 alg.

                    A better scenario is probably:

                    - OE then OC then finally PE and PC in any order.

                    Going that route leads naturally to the standard 2-look LL: orient
                    all (OLL) and permute all (PLL). The first 2 steps combine to OLL
                    and the last 2 combine to the PLL step.

                    My best average with my rather poor 4-look LL strategy is 20.57
                    secs. My normal avg's are in the range 24-26 secs. Im lazy to change
                    my 25 yr old ways of spedsolving, and im more interested in the
                    larger cubes for speeding :-)

                    Best of luck!

                    -Per

                    > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus
                    <lars@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Jun 29, 2006, at 23:41, Ron van Bruchem wrote:
                    >
                    > > It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last
                    layer.
                    >
                    > LIke I may have said before:
                    >
                    > All that learning more than a few (around 5, say) algorithms will
                    do
                    > is to cut 5-15 moves off your solutions. Which should be 10%-30%
                    of
                    > your moves, and less of your time.
                    >
                    > If this is right, the people averaging 15 sec should be able to
                    > average under 18 using only the basic algs. Don't know if that's
                    > true, but I'd be real surprised if it's far off.
                    >
                    > But my point is that there is nothing wrong in learning
                    algorithms,
                    > and you need to know a lot to be real fast, but it's a very small
                    > part of your journey from 1 minute to sub 20. Really just those 3-
                    5
                    > last seconds.
                    >
                    > - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > "The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet."
                    > --- William Gibson
                    >
                    > Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com
                    >
                  • Ron van Bruchem
                    Hi Per, Yes, there are several scenarios for 4 look last layer. But EO, CO, CP, EP is bringing you closer to CFOP. Have fun, Ron ... From: Per Kristen Fredlund
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 30, 2006
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                      Hi Per,

                      Yes, there are several scenarios for 4 look last layer.
                      But EO, CO, CP, EP is bringing you closer to CFOP.

                      Have fun,

                      Ron

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Per Kristen Fredlund
                      To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 10:46 AM
                      Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: speed cubing


                      Hi :-)

                      About 4-look last layer (LL). I use that for my 3x3x3 speedsolving.
                      In terms of number of moves it's not very efficient at all (the way
                      i do it at least). There are at least a few reasonable scenarios for
                      a 4-step LL.

                      - position corners (PC), orient corners (OC), orient edges (OE) and
                      finally position edges (PE)

                      This is what i do basically, but there are some bad cases for
                      orienting edges after solving the corners so i sometimes divert and
                      do 2 edge 3-cycle instead of OE + PE. Or i may do the edge 4-flip in
                      just 1 alg.

                      A better scenario is probably:

                      - OE then OC then finally PE and PC in any order.

                      Going that route leads naturally to the standard 2-look LL: orient
                      all (OLL) and permute all (PLL). The first 2 steps combine to OLL
                      and the last 2 combine to the PLL step.

                      My best average with my rather poor 4-look LL strategy is 20.57
                      secs. My normal avg's are in the range 24-26 secs. Im lazy to change
                      my 25 yr old ways of spedsolving, and im more interested in the
                      larger cubes for speeding :-)

                      Best of luck!

                      -Per

                      > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus
                      <lars@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Jun 29, 2006, at 23:41, Ron van Bruchem wrote:
                      >
                      > > It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last
                      layer.
                      >
                      > LIke I may have said before:
                      >
                      > All that learning more than a few (around 5, say) algorithms will
                      do
                      > is to cut 5-15 moves off your solutions. Which should be 10%-30%
                      of
                      > your moves, and less of your time.
                      >
                      > If this is right, the people averaging 15 sec should be able to
                      > average under 18 using only the basic algs. Don't know if that's
                      > true, but I'd be real surprised if it's far off.
                      >
                      > But my point is that there is nothing wrong in learning
                      algorithms,
                      > and you need to know a lot to be real fast, but it's a very small
                      > part of your journey from 1 minute to sub 20. Really just those 3-
                      5
                      > last seconds.
                      >
                      > - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      > "The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet."
                      > --- William Gibson
                      >
                      > Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Per Kristen Fredlund
                      Hi :-) That s what i said also. But i Used OE, OC, PC, PE ;-) (! EO/CO/EP/CP) Learning 4-look LL in this way is a good way to go. Then learn how to combine PC
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 30, 2006
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                        Hi :-)

                        That's what i said also. But i Used OE, OC, PC, PE ;-)

                        (! EO/CO/EP/CP)

                        Learning 4-look LL in this way is a good way to go. Then learn how
                        to combine PC and PE into 1 step >> PLL (13 algs). This leads to a 3-
                        look LL. Then when mastering this learn the OLL algs in small steps
                        until all cases are mastered. Learning just the algs is not
                        sufficient though. I mean just learning those algs and not how to
                        use them (recognition of the cases) is rather meaningless :-) When
                        all OLL is fully mastered u have a true 2-look LL.

                        Other 2-step LL scenarios possible are CLL(COLL) then ELL(PE).

                        Or like Mirek: make a 2x2x1 block on last layer and then learn all
                        the algs for the last 5 cubies. I don't see a good step-up path to
                        this approach however ;-)

                        Cheers!

                        -Per

                        > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem"
                        <ron@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Per,
                        >
                        > Yes, there are several scenarios for 4 look last layer.
                        > But EO, CO, CP, EP is bringing you closer to CFOP.
                        >
                        > Have fun,
                        >
                        > Ron
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Per Kristen Fredlund
                        > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 10:46 AM
                        > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: speed cubing
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi :-)
                        >
                        > About 4-look last layer (LL). I use that for my 3x3x3
                        speedsolving.
                        > In terms of number of moves it's not very efficient at all (the
                        way
                        > i do it at least). There are at least a few reasonable scenarios
                        for
                        > a 4-step LL.
                        >
                        > - position corners (PC), orient corners (OC), orient edges (OE)
                        and
                        > finally position edges (PE)
                        >
                        > This is what i do basically, but there are some bad cases for
                        > orienting edges after solving the corners so i sometimes divert
                        and
                        > do 2 edge 3-cycle instead of OE + PE. Or i may do the edge 4-
                        flip in
                        > just 1 alg.
                        >
                        > A better scenario is probably:
                        >
                        > - OE then OC then finally PE and PC in any order.
                        >
                        > Going that route leads naturally to the standard 2-look LL:
                        orient
                        > all (OLL) and permute all (PLL). The first 2 steps combine to
                        OLL
                        > and the last 2 combine to the PLL step.
                        >
                        > My best average with my rather poor 4-look LL strategy is 20.57
                        > secs. My normal avg's are in the range 24-26 secs. Im lazy to
                        change
                        > my 25 yr old ways of spedsolving, and im more interested in the
                        > larger cubes for speeding :-)
                        >
                        > Best of luck!
                        >
                        > -Per
                        >
                        > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus
                        > <lars@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > On Jun 29, 2006, at 23:41, Ron van Bruchem wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last
                        > layer.
                        > >
                        > > LIke I may have said before:
                        > >
                        > > All that learning more than a few (around 5, say) algorithms
                        will
                        > do
                        > > is to cut 5-15 moves off your solutions. Which should be 10%-
                        30%
                        > of
                        > > your moves, and less of your time.
                        > >
                        > > If this is right, the people averaging 15 sec should be able
                        to
                        > > average under 18 using only the basic algs. Don't know if
                        that's
                        > > true, but I'd be real surprised if it's far off.
                        > >
                        > > But my point is that there is nothing wrong in learning
                        > algorithms,
                        > > and you need to know a lot to be real fast, but it's a very
                        small
                        > > part of your journey from 1 minute to sub 20. Really just
                        those 3-
                        > 5
                        > > last seconds.
                        > >
                        > > - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        > > "The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet."
                        > > --- William Gibson
                        > >
                        > > Lars Petrus - lars@ http://lar5.com
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • d_j_salvia
                        Hi Per, I didn t know that you - position corners (PC), orient corners (OC), orient edges (OE) and finally position edges (PE)
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 30, 2006
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                          Hi Per,

                          I didn't know that you > - position corners (PC), orient corners (OC),
                          orient edges (OE) and finally position edges (PE) < !!

                          That's what I do, basically. See:
                          http://www.speedcubing.com/DavidJSalvia.html

                          From there I went a different direction: Position and orient corners
                          in one go, solve edges in one go. CLL ELL.

                          I started to control the LL edge orientation when placing the 4 FL
                          edges, so I never end up with all four flipped unless I want them
                          flipped. I did that when I started to develop: position and orient
                          corners and flip 2 edges over in one go, and position edges.

                          :)

                          David J


                          --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund"
                          <aspiring_to_love@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi :-)
                          >
                          > About 4-look last layer (LL). I use that for my 3x3x3 speedsolving.
                          > In terms of number of moves it's not very efficient at all (the way
                          > i do it at least). There are at least a few reasonable scenarios for
                          > a 4-step LL.
                          >
                          > - position corners (PC), orient corners (OC), orient edges (OE) and
                          > finally position edges (PE)
                          >
                          > This is what i do basically, but there are some bad cases for
                          > orienting edges after solving the corners so i sometimes divert and
                          > do 2 edge 3-cycle instead of OE + PE. Or i may do the edge 4-flip in
                          > just 1 alg.
                          >
                          > A better scenario is probably:
                          >
                          > - OE then OC then finally PE and PC in any order.
                          >
                          > Going that route leads naturally to the standard 2-look LL: orient
                          > all (OLL) and permute all (PLL). The first 2 steps combine to OLL
                          > and the last 2 combine to the PLL step.
                          >
                          > My best average with my rather poor 4-look LL strategy is 20.57
                          > secs. My normal avg's are in the range 24-26 secs. Im lazy to change
                          > my 25 yr old ways of spedsolving, and im more interested in the
                          > larger cubes for speeding :-)
                          >
                          > Best of luck!
                          >
                          > -Per
                          >
                          > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus
                          > <lars@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > On Jun 29, 2006, at 23:41, Ron van Bruchem wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > It is possible to average under 20 seconds with 4 look last
                          > layer.
                          > >
                          > > LIke I may have said before:
                          > >
                          > > All that learning more than a few (around 5, say) algorithms will
                          > do
                          > > is to cut 5-15 moves off your solutions. Which should be 10%-30%
                          > of
                          > > your moves, and less of your time.
                          > >
                          > > If this is right, the people averaging 15 sec should be able to
                          > > average under 18 using only the basic algs. Don't know if that's
                          > > true, but I'd be real surprised if it's far off.
                          > >
                          > > But my point is that there is nothing wrong in learning
                          > algorithms,
                          > > and you need to know a lot to be real fast, but it's a very small
                          > > part of your journey from 1 minute to sub 20. Really just those 3-
                          > 5
                          > > last seconds.
                          > >
                          > > - - - - - - - - - - - -
                          > > "The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet."
                          > > --- William Gibson
                          > >
                          > > Lars Petrus - lars@ http://lar5.com
                          > >
                          >
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