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Instant recognition

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  • Lars Petrus
    ... You re of course right that it s only for meaningful positions. I m not sure it invalidates my claim, but maybe it does. I would argue that to a cuber, all
    Message 1 of 85 , Mar 1, 2006
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      On Mar 1, 2006, at 6:45, Stefan Pochmann wrote:

      > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus <lars@...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >> I don't see any reason why people couldn't, with a lot of talent and
      >> years of dedicated practice, do the same thing with a 3x3x3. It
      >> doesn't hold more information than a face or a chess position.
      >
      > Um... I disagree. What you mentioned, that chess players can memorize
      > a chess situation very quickly, that's only for *real* chess
      > situations coming from a *real* game that makes sense. If you give
      > them *random* boards they're not any better than other people. But in
      > blindsolving we're dealing with *random* cubes, so that's not
      > comparable to
      > chess masters memorizing a meaningful chess situation.

      You're of course right that it's only for meaningful positions. I'm
      not sure it invalidates my claim, but maybe it does.

      I would argue that to a cuber, all cube positions are meaningful.
      Just the fact that they're random doesn't mean they're hard to
      memorize/recognize. But maybe it is somehow fundamentally a much
      bigger harder problem in some way.

      It would be interesting to know how the number of possible
      "meaningful" chess positions compares to the number of possible cube
      positions. Not that that conclusively proves anything, but it's an
      indicator.

      On Mar 1, 2006, at 7:59, Stefan Pochmann wrote:
      > Do you remember a place where I could read about these results? The
      > research I've found so far allowed 3-5 seconds to look at the board,
      > then they looked how much the players remembered. And not even the
      > grand masters remembered the whole board exactly. So that's quite a
      > different result.

      I got the "fraction of a second" from memory, and as you found that
      memory was a exaggerated by a factor of 10. Make your own 'irony' joke.

      Are there any other comparable cases of instant recognition that
      people do? I haven't had my coffee, so I can't think of any. I'm
      thinking less of conscious memorizing of symbols and more about
      things that plugs into our instinctive abilities. That's often
      thousand of times faster.

      - - - - - - - - - - - -
      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
      by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw

      Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com
    • Gilles Roux
      Hehe. I read that roux cubes were very useful in cooking too, but I don t know exactly what they are. Some funny quotes I found on the web: - I used a quick
      Message 85 of 85 , Apr 8, 2006
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        Hehe.

        I read that "roux cubes" were very useful in cooking too, but I don't
        know exactly what they are. Some funny quotes I found on the web:
        - "I used a quick roux substitute method I'd read about on another
        cooking website".
        - "Many Cajun grandmothers have switched over to instant roux because
        it is easier and quicker".
        - "I suppose you could make a roux in the microwave, and I guess that
        with practice you can learn how to do it properly. But it seems like a
        pretty dicey proposition to me."

        Roux is such a common name (about 60000 Rouxes in France), it's not
        very surprising some have given their name to things like cube objects.

        Gilles.



        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus <lars@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Is this from one of his videos?
        >
        > http://www.shopnbc.com/product/?
        > familyid=V38641&storeid=1&track=-51003&oasid=1000
        >
        >
        > - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > "A closed mouth gathers no foot"
        >
        > Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com
        >
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