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Re: Interesting paradox

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  • Per Kristen Fredlund
    Hey! Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world records im quite fast with
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 29, 2005
      Hey!

      Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on the
      4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world records
      im quite fast with it too ;-) The benefit of doing centers last (for
      me anyway) is that the rest of the solve speeds up. Doing the
      centers on the last 5 faces last is a bit slower than doing centers
      first. But at least by now the rest of the cube is solves and u have
      easier recognition. Easy recognition is the way to success on the
      larger cubes. many (including me) find that pairing up is too
      awkward since ur only ppoint of reference is one (or two) other edge
      (s) only. The pairing up stage is what most ppl struggle to speed
      up. I know of good cubers who spend more time on the pairing-up
      stage than on one of my complete solves. So the normal 3x3x3
      reduction "regime" is not the salvation for everyone :-)

      I would call my method the cage method. It's somewhat similar to
      columns first method.

      First layer (top)
      Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
      Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
      Final centers

      Happy cubing !!

      -Per

      > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort
      <joel_vn@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Centres last? What kind of weird cubers try that?
      >
      > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
      > <grrroux@f...> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw
      > <no_reply@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I just realized something I had never thought of. Winning
      moves
      > > > doesn't produce true general cubes where the orientations of
      the
      > > > centers doesn't matter. The white sticker always has a design
      > on it,
      > > > so in competitions your cube is only solved 1/4 the time, yet
      we
      > still
      > > > consider it solved.
      > > >
      > > > So we've all been frequently (75% of the time actually)
      counting
      > cubes
      > > > as solved that never were in fact solved. There has been
      rampant
      > > > cheating in the cubing community for almost 2 years :)
      > > >
      > > > Perhaps we should memorize which way the design of the white
      > sticker
      > > > is oriented when we buy our cubes to make sure we don't cheat
      > and just
      > > > half solve it :)
      > > >
      > > > And no I'm not serious at all in my claims of cheating. I just
      > > > thought it was a funny way to look at things ;-)
      > > >
      > > > Chris
      > >
      > > Logos on stickers should be forbidden in competitions. At least,
      it
      > > can help "centers-last" cubers locate pieces faster.
      > > And yes, I'm serious. ;-)
      > >
      > > Gilles.
    • Gilles Roux
      Congratulations Per, your times with such a method are impressive! My method is different, it looks a bit like my 3x3x3 technique: - 1x3x4 block on a side -
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 29, 2005
        Congratulations Per, your times with such a method are impressive!

        My method is different, it looks a bit like my 3x3x3 technique:
        - 1x3x4 block on a side
        - 1x3x4 block on the opposite side
        - U corners
        - 12 remaining edges
        - last 4 centers
        I can't reach good times (about 1:50 on average), perhaps because I
        rarely practice.

        I would be interested in looking at a video of you solving the last
        centers. In my case there are only 4 centers (not 5), but I need
        almost 30 seconds on average. How long do you think it should take?

        Gilles.



        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund"
        <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey!
        >
        > Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on the
        > 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world records
        > im quite fast with it too ;-) The benefit of doing centers last (for
        > me anyway) is that the rest of the solve speeds up. Doing the
        > centers on the last 5 faces last is a bit slower than doing centers
        > first. But at least by now the rest of the cube is solves and u have
        > easier recognition. Easy recognition is the way to success on the
        > larger cubes. many (including me) find that pairing up is too
        > awkward since ur only ppoint of reference is one (or two) other edge
        > (s) only. The pairing up stage is what most ppl struggle to speed
        > up. I know of good cubers who spend more time on the pairing-up
        > stage than on one of my complete solves. So the normal 3x3x3
        > reduction "regime" is not the salvation for everyone :-)
        >
        > I would call my method the cage method. It's somewhat similar to
        > columns first method.
        >
        > First layer (top)
        > Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
        > Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
        > Final centers
        >
        > Happy cubing !!
        >
        > -Per
        >
        > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort
        > <joel_vn@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Centres last? What kind of weird cubers try that?
        > >
        > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
        > > <grrroux@f...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw
        > > <no_reply@y...>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I just realized something I had never thought of. Winning
        > moves
        > > > > doesn't produce true general cubes where the orientations of
        > the
        > > > > centers doesn't matter. The white sticker always has a design
        > > on it,
        > > > > so in competitions your cube is only solved 1/4 the time, yet
        > we
        > > still
        > > > > consider it solved.
        > > > >
        > > > > So we've all been frequently (75% of the time actually)
        > counting
        > > cubes
        > > > > as solved that never were in fact solved. There has been
        > rampant
        > > > > cheating in the cubing community for almost 2 years :)
        > > > >
        > > > > Perhaps we should memorize which way the design of the white
        > > sticker
        > > > > is oriented when we buy our cubes to make sure we don't cheat
        > > and just
        > > > > half solve it :)
        > > > >
        > > > > And no I'm not serious at all in my claims of cheating. I just
        > > > > thought it was a funny way to look at things ;-)
        > > > >
        > > > > Chris
        > > >
        > > > Logos on stickers should be forbidden in competitions. At least,
        > it
        > > > can help "centers-last" cubers locate pieces faster.
        > > > And yes, I'm serious. ;-)
        > > >
        > > > Gilles.
      • Per Kristen Fredlund
        Hmmm .... Centers on 4 faces. I reckon it should take maybe 20 secs or so. Do u cycle blocks of centers also? Or always just 3-cycling center cubies? U can
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 29, 2005
          Hmmm ....

          Centers on 4 faces. I reckon it should take maybe 20 secs or so. Do
          u cycle blocks of centers also? Or always just 3-cycling center
          cubies? U can cycle blocks similar to this :

          <r'(ud')r,U2> - commutator

          I think i already showed u some algs for opposite faces, like :

          (r2 u2)*2

          (r2 E2)*2 (on 5x5x5 cube)

          There is more to commutators than meets the eye ... hehe ...

          <(r'l)d2(rl'),U> (mostly on 4x4x4, 5 cycle)

          Yes practice practice should help u alot of coz ;-)

          Have fun!!

          -Per

          > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
          <grrroux@f...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Congratulations Per, your times with such a method are impressive!
          >
          > My method is different, it looks a bit like my 3x3x3 technique:
          > - 1x3x4 block on a side
          > - 1x3x4 block on the opposite side
          > - U corners
          > - 12 remaining edges
          > - last 4 centers
          > I can't reach good times (about 1:50 on average), perhaps because I
          > rarely practice.
          >
          > I would be interested in looking at a video of you solving the last
          > centers. In my case there are only 4 centers (not 5), but I need
          > almost 30 seconds on average. How long do you think it should take?
          >
          > Gilles.
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen
          Fredlund"
          > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey!
          > >
          > > Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on
          the
          > > 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world
          records
          > > im quite fast with it too ;-) The benefit of doing centers last
          (for
          > > me anyway) is that the rest of the solve speeds up. Doing the
          > > centers on the last 5 faces last is a bit slower than doing
          centers
          > > first. But at least by now the rest of the cube is solves and u
          have
          > > easier recognition. Easy recognition is the way to success on
          the
          > > larger cubes. many (including me) find that pairing up is too
          > > awkward since ur only ppoint of reference is one (or two) other
          edge
          > > (s) only. The pairing up stage is what most ppl struggle to
          speed
          > > up. I know of good cubers who spend more time on the pairing-up
          > > stage than on one of my complete solves. So the normal 3x3x3
          > > reduction "regime" is not the salvation for everyone :-)
          > >
          > > I would call my method the cage method. It's somewhat similar to
          > > columns first method.
          > >
          > > First layer (top)
          > > Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
          > > Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
          > > Final centers
          > >
          > > Happy cubing !!
          > >
          > > -Per
          > >
          > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort
          > > <joel_vn@y...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Centres last? What kind of weird cubers try that?
          > > >
          > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
          > > > <grrroux@f...> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw
          > > > <no_reply@y...>
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I just realized something I had never thought of. Winning
          > > moves
          > > > > > doesn't produce true general cubes where the orientations
          of
          > > the
          > > > > > centers doesn't matter. The white sticker always has a
          design
          > > > on it,
          > > > > > so in competitions your cube is only solved 1/4 the time,
          yet
          > > we
          > > > still
          > > > > > consider it solved.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > So we've all been frequently (75% of the time actually)
          > > counting
          > > > cubes
          > > > > > as solved that never were in fact solved. There has been
          > > rampant
          > > > > > cheating in the cubing community for almost 2 years :)
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Perhaps we should memorize which way the design of the
          white
          > > > sticker
          > > > > > is oriented when we buy our cubes to make sure we don't
          cheat
          > > > and just
          > > > > > half solve it :)
          > > > > >
          > > > > > And no I'm not serious at all in my claims of cheating. I
          just
          > > > > > thought it was a funny way to look at things ;-)
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Chris
          > > > >
          > > > > Logos on stickers should be forbidden in competitions. At
          least,
          > > it
          > > > > can help "centers-last" cubers locate pieces faster.
          > > > > And yes, I'm serious. ;-)
          > > > >
          > > > > Gilles.
        • Gilles Roux
          ... I know all these sequences and commutators. Yes, practice is the key, that s why I was asking for a video of someone who practiced a lot, to see what it
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 29, 2005
            --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund"
            <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hmmm ....
            >
            > Centers on 4 faces. I reckon it should take maybe 20 secs or so. Do
            > u cycle blocks of centers also? Or always just 3-cycling center
            > cubies? U can cycle blocks similar to this :
            >
            > <r'(ud')r,U2> - commutator
            >
            > I think i already showed u some algs for opposite faces, like :
            >
            > (r2 u2)*2
            >
            > (r2 E2)*2 (on 5x5x5 cube)
            >
            > There is more to commutators than meets the eye ... hehe ...
            >
            > <(r'l)d2(rl'),U> (mostly on 4x4x4, 5 cycle)
            >
            > Yes practice practice should help u alot of coz ;-)
            >

            I know all these sequences and commutators.
            Yes, practice is the key, that's why I was asking for a video of
            someone who practiced a lot, to see what it looks like ;-)

            Usually, I separate center pieces and move them to their final side,
            or to the opposite side. And when it's possible, I try to build 1x1x2
            blocks, because finishing with (u2r2)^2 is much faster.

            But sequences like (ur2u'r2) that can change 4 sides at a time thanks
            to a *very* simple move look interesting...


            > Have fun!!
            >
            > -Per
            >
            > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
            > <grrroux@f...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Congratulations Per, your times with such a method are impressive!
            > >
            > > My method is different, it looks a bit like my 3x3x3 technique:
            > > - 1x3x4 block on a side
            > > - 1x3x4 block on the opposite side
            > > - U corners
            > > - 12 remaining edges
            > > - last 4 centers
            > > I can't reach good times (about 1:50 on average), perhaps because I
            > > rarely practice.
            > >
            > > I would be interested in looking at a video of you solving the last
            > > centers. In my case there are only 4 centers (not 5), but I need
            > > almost 30 seconds on average. How long do you think it should take?
            > >
            > > Gilles.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen
            > Fredlund"
            > > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hey!
            > > >
            > > > Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on
            > the
            > > > 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world
            > records
            > > > im quite fast with it too ;-) The benefit of doing centers last
            > (for
            > > > me anyway) is that the rest of the solve speeds up. Doing the
            > > > centers on the last 5 faces last is a bit slower than doing
            > centers
            > > > first. But at least by now the rest of the cube is solves and u
            > have
            > > > easier recognition. Easy recognition is the way to success on
            > the
            > > > larger cubes. many (including me) find that pairing up is too
            > > > awkward since ur only ppoint of reference is one (or two) other
            > edge
            > > > (s) only. The pairing up stage is what most ppl struggle to
            > speed
            > > > up. I know of good cubers who spend more time on the pairing-up
            > > > stage than on one of my complete solves. So the normal 3x3x3
            > > > reduction "regime" is not the salvation for everyone :-)
            > > >
            > > > I would call my method the cage method. It's somewhat similar to
            > > > columns first method.
            > > >
            > > > First layer (top)
            > > > Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
            > > > Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
            > > > Final centers
            > > >
            > > > Happy cubing !!
            > > >
            > > > -Per
            > > >
            > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort
            > > > <joel_vn@y...> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Centres last? What kind of weird cubers try that?
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
            > > > > <grrroux@f...> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw
            > > > > <no_reply@y...>
            > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I just realized something I had never thought of. Winning
            > > > moves
            > > > > > > doesn't produce true general cubes where the orientations
            > of
            > > > the
            > > > > > > centers doesn't matter. The white sticker always has a
            > design
            > > > > on it,
            > > > > > > so in competitions your cube is only solved 1/4 the time,
            > yet
            > > > we
            > > > > still
            > > > > > > consider it solved.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > So we've all been frequently (75% of the time actually)
            > > > counting
            > > > > cubes
            > > > > > > as solved that never were in fact solved. There has been
            > > > rampant
            > > > > > > cheating in the cubing community for almost 2 years :)
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Perhaps we should memorize which way the design of the
            > white
            > > > > sticker
            > > > > > > is oriented when we buy our cubes to make sure we don't
            > cheat
            > > > > and just
            > > > > > > half solve it :)
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > And no I'm not serious at all in my claims of cheating. I
            > just
            > > > > > > thought it was a funny way to look at things ;-)
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Chris
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Logos on stickers should be forbidden in competitions. At
            > least,
            > > > it
            > > > > > can help "centers-last" cubers locate pieces faster.
            > > > > > And yes, I'm serious. ;-)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Gilles.
          • d_j_salvia
            Hi Per, Gilles, et al, I also do centers last. I think that there s much greater freedom of movement, and if you learn to spot it you can solve parity with a
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 30, 2005
              Hi Per, Gilles, et al,

              I also do centers last. I think that there's much greater freedom
              of movement, and if you learn to spot it you can solve parity with a
              single half turn.

              I do:
              1 Eight corners
              2 two opposing centers "middle level"

              At this point there is a center column of 4 centers all the way around
              the cube and the top and bottom levels may be rotated at will, so
              there is lots of flexibility.

              The front and back sides may be rotated followed by center moves, and
              rotated back to place the first.

              3 all four "middle level" edge pairs

              You lose the front and back turns but that's no handicap.

              4 two FL edge pairs (on the already-solved centers)

              Now all the changes happen using the top level and the four unsolved
              centers.

              5 two LL edge pairs (on the already-solved centers)

              At this point you have the left and right side solved, and the
              remaining edges can be lined up easily.

              6 pair up the remaining edges
              This is really easy, and it only takes a moment to see if you need to

              6a solve parity

              Done now this only takes one move. You will need to pair up the
              remaining edges again without undoing parity.

              Two sets of algs can be used if you spot whether you need to solve
              parity or not after step 5.

              8 place the four remaining edge pairs
              9 fix the four remaining centers

              I hope my description makes sense.

              Regards,

              David J


              --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund"
              <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey!
              >
              > Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on the
              > 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world records
              > im quite fast with it too ;-) The benefit of doing centers last (for
              > me anyway) is that the rest of the solve speeds up. Doing the
              > centers on the last 5 faces last is a bit slower than doing centers
              > first. But at least by now the rest of the cube is solves and u have
              > easier recognition. Easy recognition is the way to success on the
              > larger cubes. many (including me) find that pairing up is too
              > awkward since ur only ppoint of reference is one (or two) other edge
              > (s) only. The pairing up stage is what most ppl struggle to speed
              > up. I know of good cubers who spend more time on the pairing-up
              > stage than on one of my complete solves. So the normal 3x3x3
              > reduction "regime" is not the salvation for everyone :-)
              >
              > I would call my method the cage method. It's somewhat similar to
              > columns first method.
              >
              > First layer (top)
              > Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
              > Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
              > Final centers
              >
              > Happy cubing !!
              >
              > -Per
              >
              > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort
              > <joel_vn@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Centres last? What kind of weird cubers try that?
              > >
              > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
              > > <grrroux@f...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw
              > > <no_reply@y...>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I just realized something I had never thought of. Winning
              > moves
              > > > > doesn't produce true general cubes where the orientations of
              > the
              > > > > centers doesn't matter. The white sticker always has a design
              > > on it,
              > > > > so in competitions your cube is only solved 1/4 the time, yet
              > we
              > > still
              > > > > consider it solved.
              > > > >
              > > > > So we've all been frequently (75% of the time actually)
              > counting
              > > cubes
              > > > > as solved that never were in fact solved. There has been
              > rampant
              > > > > cheating in the cubing community for almost 2 years :)
              > > > >
              > > > > Perhaps we should memorize which way the design of the white
              > > sticker
              > > > > is oriented when we buy our cubes to make sure we don't cheat
              > > and just
              > > > > half solve it :)
              > > > >
              > > > > And no I'm not serious at all in my claims of cheating. I just
              > > > > thought it was a funny way to look at things ;-)
              > > > >
              > > > > Chris
              > > >
              > > > Logos on stickers should be forbidden in competitions. At least,
              > it
              > > > can help "centers-last" cubers locate pieces faster.
              > > > And yes, I'm serious. ;-)
              > > >
              > > > Gilles.
            • Stefan Pochmann
              ... half turn ? Don t confuse newbies ;-) They ll trust and misunderstand you and never fix the parity. ... After all this detail (not at all a complaint ;-)
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 30, 2005
                --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia"
                <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote:
                >
                > you can solve parity with a single half turn.

                "half turn"? Don't confuse newbies ;-) They'll trust and misunderstand
                you and never fix the parity.

                > 9 fix the four remaining centers

                After all this detail (not at all a complaint ;-) something's still
                missing: What are your times with this method?

                Cheers!
                Stefan
              • Gilles Roux
                ... Please tell us how many moves are needed to build the cage. I m a rookie, but my first stats look like: - L-layer: 40 - rl-edges: 40 - R-corners: 10 -
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 31, 2005
                  --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund"
                  <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote many interesting things, including:

                  >
                  > First layer (top)
                  > Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
                  > Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
                  > Final centers
                  >

                  Please tell us how many moves are needed to build the cage.

                  I'm a rookie, but my first stats look like:
                  - L-layer: 40
                  - rl-edges: 40
                  - R-corners: 10
                  - R-edges: ?

                  You must have found some ways of shortening the process, because much
                  more than 100 moves is too much (I need about 90 moves to solve this
                  "cage" + R-centers using my technique).
                  Any tips?

                  Gilles.

                  PS: In a decent forum, someone interested by 4x4x4 techniques can find
                  this message several months after it has been posted, just go to the
                  "4x4x4" section. In this group, it's gonna be burried and forgotten in
                  no time. I'm not saying that this post is interesting, but I hope the
                  answer will, for me and for others as well (or else, I would have sent
                  it privately).
                • Per Kristen Fredlund
                  Hey! Im on my way home now. Short reply only now ... 90-100 moves sounds reasonable. 2 moves/sec and u are at 45/50 secs before the centers. Im nearer to 55
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 31, 2005
                    Hey!

                    Im on my way home now. Short reply only now ...

                    90-100 moves sounds reasonable. 2 moves/sec and u are at 45/50 secs
                    before the centers. Im nearer to 55 when at full speed. And then 25
                    secs to finish off the centers.

                    Better reply tomorrow :-)

                    -Per

                    > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux"
                    <grrroux@f...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen
                    Fredlund"
                    > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote many interesting things, including:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > First layer (top)
                    > > Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
                    > > Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
                    > > Final centers
                    > >
                    >
                    > Please tell us how many moves are needed to build the cage.
                    >
                    > I'm a rookie, but my first stats look like:
                    > - L-layer: 40
                    > - rl-edges: 40
                    > - R-corners: 10
                    > - R-edges: ?
                    >
                    > You must have found some ways of shortening the process, because
                    much
                    > more than 100 moves is too much (I need about 90 moves to solve
                    this
                    > "cage" + R-centers using my technique).
                    > Any tips?
                    >
                    > Gilles.
                    >
                    > PS: In a decent forum, someone interested by 4x4x4 techniques can
                    find
                    > this message several months after it has been posted, just go to
                    the
                    > "4x4x4" section. In this group, it's gonna be burried and
                    forgotten in
                    > no time. I'm not saying that this post is interesting, but I hope
                    the
                    > answer will, for me and for others as well (or else, I would have
                    sent
                    > it privately).
                  • d_j_salvia
                    Hi Stefan, and All, ... Sorry, this should have read quarter turn. I know that Yahoo is proud of their new page, and I m glad that so many people complained
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 31, 2005
                      Hi Stefan, and All,

                      --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann"
                      <pochmann@g...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia"
                      > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > you can solve parity with a single half turn.
                      >
                      > "half turn"? Don't confuse newbies ;-) They'll trust and misunderstand
                      > you and never fix the parity.

                      Sorry, this should have read "quarter turn." I know that Yahoo is
                      proud of their new page, and I'm glad that so many people complained
                      that Yahoo put back the "post number search," but I dislike that the
                      "edit your own post" feature is gone now.

                      > > 9 fix the four remaining centers
                      >
                      > After all this detail (not at all a complaint ;-) something's still
                      > missing: What are your times with this method?

                      I only just got a cube that might be good for speedcubing, so all
                      my times are are on cubes which cannot be turned quickly.

                      I did calculate the number of turns I take, though:

                      12 (12)
                      6 + 4 + 8 + 5 (35)
                      5 + 7 (47)
                      8 + 8 (63)
                      5 (68)
                      14 + 14 (96)
                      1 (97)
                      7 (104)
                      9 + 21 (134)

                      Is this comparable to others?

                      Actually the first step is really 11, but I don't know the all 11 move
                      algs.

                      > Cheers!
                      > Stefan

                      Thanks,

                      David J
                    • Stefan Pochmann
                      ... Haha, so that was indeed a mistake? After thinking about it, I thought you had meant turn half of the cube by a quarter turn ;-) ... Did we ever have one?
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 1 6:22 AM
                        --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia"
                        <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sorry, this should have read "quarter turn."

                        Haha, so that was indeed a mistake? After thinking about it, I thought
                        you had meant turn half of the cube by a quarter turn ;-)

                        > I dislike that the
                        > "edit your own post" feature is gone now.

                        Did we ever have one? I thought we didn't! Damn... could've used that
                        quite a few times...

                        > I did calculate the number of turns I take, though:

                        Hmm, not bad. I haven't really counted myself yet but your 134 might
                        very well beat me :-) I know I never came close to Chris's fewest
                        moves record he posted in SCC.

                        Cheers!
                        Stefan
                      • Michael Zener Riggs Gottlieb
                        Hey! Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world records im quite fast with
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 4 3:02 PM
                          Hey!

                          Well then im one of those weird cubers :D I do centers last on the
                          4x4x4 and 5x5x5. And as u can see from the unofficial world records
                          im quite fast with it too ;-) The benefit of doing centers last (for
                          me anyway) is that the rest of the solve speeds up. Doing the
                          centers on the last 5 faces last is a bit slower than doing centers
                          first. But at least by now the rest of the cube is solves and u have
                          easier recognition. Easy recognition is the way to success on the
                          larger cubes. many (including me) find that pairing up is too
                          awkward since ur only ppoint of reference is one (or two) other edge
                          (s) only. The pairing up stage is what most ppl struggle to speed
                          up. I know of good cubers who spend more time on the pairing-up
                          stage than on one of my complete solves. So the normal 3x3x3
                          reduction "regime" is not the salvation for everyone :-)

                          I would call my method the cage method. It's somewhat similar to
                          columns first method.

                          First layer (top)
                          Middle layers edges (hold solved layer to the left)
                          Last layer corners then edges (and parity)
                          Final centers

                          Happy cubing !!

                          -Per




                          I'm still learning to do the 4-by and 5-by cubes (takes me five minutes for the 5-by using the reduction thing) and I'd really like to learn your method, as I think it might help me - especially when I'm doing patterns, where often I have to move some centers around. What kind of algorithms do you use for the centers?

                          --MZRG


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