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4x4 LL Edges

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  • Wayne
    Does anyone know of any good LL edge algs for the 4x4. I m learing Makimoto s column method from his site. I m already using his 3x3 method so the LL corners
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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      Does anyone know of any good LL edge algs for the 4x4. I'm learing
      Makimoto's column method from his site. I'm already using his 3x3
      method so the LL corners are no problem. Are there algs in
      existence that can swap LL edges on adjancent sides without
      disturbing the other two sides ?

      Wayne
    • Per Kristen Fredlund
      Hi Wayne! U can cycle any 3 edges on last layer quite easily. Use a basic 3- cycle with some setup moves. Here is one example: r2-lD2l -U-ld2l -U -r2 Another
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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        Hi Wayne!

        U can cycle any 3 edges on last layer quite easily. Use a basic 3-
        cycle with some setup moves.

        Here is one example:

        r2-lD2l'-U-ld2l'-U'-r2

        Another example:

        b2-lDl'-U-ld'l'-U'-b2

        Note that these are both of the form S-ABA'B'-S, conjugate
        commutators :-)

        If u need help for more LL 3-cycles dun hesitate to contac me :-)

        -Per

        PS! I do them on top. Transform them to have the effect wherever u
        like ;-)

        > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne"
        <mylib_2000@y...> wrote:
        > Does anyone know of any good LL edge algs for the 4x4. I'm
        learing
        > Makimoto's column method from his site. I'm already using his 3x3
        > method so the LL corners are no problem. Are there algs in
        > existence that can swap LL edges on adjancent sides without
        > disturbing the other two sides ?
        >
        > Wayne
      • Per Kristen Fredlund
        Hmm ... i got those algs wrong. Should be : Here is one example: r2-lD2l -U-lD2l -U -r2 Another example: b2-lDl -U-lD l -U -b2 Sorry!! -Per ... 3x3
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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          Hmm ... i got those algs wrong.

          Should be :

          Here is one example:

          r2-lD2l'-U-lD2l'-U'-r2

          Another example:

          b2-lDl'-U-lD'l'-U'-b2

          Sorry!!

          -Per


          > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen
          Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Wayne!
          >
          > U can cycle any 3 edges on last layer quite easily. Use a basic 3-
          > cycle with some setup moves.
          >
          > Here is one example:
          >
          > r2-lD2l'-U-ld2l'-U'-r2
          >
          > Another example:
          >
          > b2-lDl'-U-ld'l'-U'-b2
          >
          > Note that these are both of the form S-ABA'B'-S, conjugate
          > commutators :-)
          >
          > If u need help for more LL 3-cycles dun hesitate to contac me :-)
          >
          > -Per
          >
          > PS! I do them on top. Transform them to have the effect wherever u
          > like ;-)
          >
          > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne"
          > <mylib_2000@y...> wrote:
          > > Does anyone know of any good LL edge algs for the 4x4. I'm
          > learing
          > > Makimoto's column method from his site. I'm already using his
          3x3
          > > method so the LL corners are no problem. Are there algs in
          > > existence that can swap LL edges on adjancent sides without
          > > disturbing the other two sides ?
          > >
          > > Wayne
        • Stefan Pochmann
          Are we talking about single edge cubies or about edge pairs? It would help if you could describe a little better what you d like, e.g. I d like to swap
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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            Are we talking about single edge cubies or about edge pairs? It would
            help if you could describe a little better what you'd like, e.g. "I'd
            like to swap UFl<->URb".

            Cheers!
            Stefan

            --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <mylib_2000@y..
            .> wrote:
            > Does anyone know of any good LL edge algs for the 4x4. I'm learing
            > Makimoto's column method from his site. I'm already using his 3x3
            > method so the LL corners are no problem. Are there algs in
            > existence that can swap LL edges on adjancent sides without
            > disturbing the other two sides ?
            >
            > Wayne
          • Stefan Pochmann
            ... If you count inner slice turns as two turns, you lose 16-14 against this one: (Ll) U2 - (F L F ) l2 (F L F ) l2 - U2 (Ll) ... (Bb) D - (D R2 D) l2 (D
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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              > r2-lD2l'-U-lD2l'-U'-r2

              If you count inner slice turns as two turns, you lose 16-14 against
              this one:

              (Ll) U2 - (F L F') l2 (F L' F') l2 - U2 (Ll)'

              > b2-lDl'-U-lD'l'-U'-b2

              (Bb)' D - (D' R2 D) l2 (D' R2 D) l2 - D' (Bb)

              which after canceling even beats you 12-16:

              (Bb)' R2 D l2 D' R2 D l2 D' (Bb)

              Sooooorrrry.... ;-)
              Stefan

              P.S. I got the idea to use inner slice turns as the second/fourth part
              of a commutator from Macky's page. Somehow I had never thought about
              it myself. This is a fast one I just made up:
              (U' R' U) r (U' R U) r'
              I'll most likely use something like this for blindsolving in the
              future...
            • Per Kristen Fredlund
              Hey! Optimal algs were not the issue here. The thing is that u can make my kind of edge 3-cycles on the fly. Ur alg u would have to just memorise anyway. Only
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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                Hey!

                Optimal algs were not the issue here. The thing is that u can make
                my kind of edge 3-cycles on the fly. Ur alg u would have to just
                memorise anyway. Only for fewest moves solve would i resort to 3-
                cycles using inner slice moves for LL 3-cycles. Who counts moves
                when u speedsolve anyway? Another advantage of my way is that if u
                write the alg in this form S-ABA'B'-S' u always will have that B is
                turning the U-layer. No need to turn cube over in any way when u
                wanna speedoptimise. Also easier to get lookahead when u never move
                that LL away from staying on top. Also the official rules for nxnxn
                cubes with n>3 says that any inner slice move counts as 1 as opposed
                to for the 3x3x3 (historical reasons).

                I dun wanna argue. Just pointing out the advantages of my approach
                for a beginner :-)

                -Per

                > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann"
                <pochmann@g...> wrote:
                >
                > > r2-lD2l'-U-lD2l'-U'-r2
                >
                > If you count inner slice turns as two turns, you lose 16-14
                against
                > this one:
                >
                > (Ll) U2 - (F L F') l2 (F L' F') l2 - U2 (Ll)'
                >
                > > b2-lDl'-U-lD'l'-U'-b2
                >
                > (Bb)' D - (D' R2 D) l2 (D' R2 D) l2 - D' (Bb)
                >
                > which after canceling even beats you 12-16:
                >
                > (Bb)' R2 D l2 D' R2 D l2 D' (Bb)
                >
                > Sooooorrrry.... ;-)
                > Stefan
                >
                > P.S. I got the idea to use inner slice turns as the second/fourth
                part
                > of a commutator from Macky's page. Somehow I had never thought
                about
                > it myself. This is a fast one I just made up:
                > (U' R' U) r (U' R U) r'
                > I'll most likely use something like this for blindsolving in the
                > future...
              • Stefan Pochmann
                Hey, I claim you can make up my kind of edge 3-cycles on the fly, too ... far I only really use your way, but I m gonna try the inner-slice algs as well. And
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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                  Hey, I claim you can make up my kind of edge 3-cycles on the fly, too
                  :-) Don't you think so? At least with some practice? I admit that so
                  far I only really use your way, but I'm gonna try the inner-slice algs
                  as well. And even though we don't count moves when speedsolving, I
                  think the inner-slice algs can be executed faster. Well, I don't
                  really speedsolve (but blindsolve) using 3-cycles (super5x5speed I do
                  use them for centers but only 3x3-style without inner slice turns) so
                  maybe your opinion should count more ;-)

                  Cheers!
                  Stefan


                  --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund"
                  <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey!
                  >
                  > Optimal algs were not the issue here. The thing is that u can make
                  > my kind of edge 3-cycles on the fly. Ur alg u would have to just
                  > memorise anyway. Only for fewest moves solve would i resort to 3-
                  > cycles using inner slice moves for LL 3-cycles. Who counts moves
                  > when u speedsolve anyway? Another advantage of my way is that if u
                  > write the alg in this form S-ABA'B'-S' u always will have that B is
                  > turning the U-layer. No need to turn cube over in any way when u
                  > wanna speedoptimise. Also easier to get lookahead when u never move
                  > that LL away from staying on top. Also the official rules for nxnxn
                  > cubes with n>3 says that any inner slice move counts as 1 as opposed
                  > to for the 3x3x3 (historical reasons).
                  >
                  > I dun wanna argue. Just pointing out the advantages of my approach
                  > for a beginner :-)
                  >
                  > -Per
                  >
                  > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann"
                  > <pochmann@g...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > r2-lD2l'-U-lD2l'-U'-r2
                  > >
                  > > If you count inner slice turns as two turns, you lose 16-14
                  > against
                  > > this one:
                  > >
                  > > (Ll) U2 - (F L F') l2 (F L' F') l2 - U2 (Ll)'
                  > >
                  > > > b2-lDl'-U-lD'l'-U'-b2
                  > >
                  > > (Bb)' D - (D' R2 D) l2 (D' R2 D) l2 - D' (Bb)
                  > >
                  > > which after canceling even beats you 12-16:
                  > >
                  > > (Bb)' R2 D l2 D' R2 D l2 D' (Bb)
                  > >
                  > > Sooooorrrry.... ;-)
                  > > Stefan
                  > >
                  > > P.S. I got the idea to use inner slice turns as the second/fourth
                  > part
                  > > of a commutator from Macky's page. Somehow I had never thought
                  > about
                  > > it myself. This is a fast one I just made up:
                  > > (U' R' U) r (U' R U) r'
                  > > I'll most likely use something like this for blindsolving in the
                  > > future...
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