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18354Re: [Speed cubing group] future of the ZB method

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  • Wayne
    Aug 1, 2005
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      Ron,
      It would be great to have another corners guy on here. I currently
      use an incomplete Waterman system and avg 21-23sec. I say incomplete
      because I don't position two edges while orienting the middle edges.
      Too many algs ! Also, I solve with the middle slice being "E"
      instead of "M" becuase I can execute the algs faster. I wish I knew
      some details of the method that Dave Allen used.

      Wayne



      --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem"
      <ron@s...> wrote:
      > Hi Lars,
      >
      > Yes, you are right.
      >
      > I think ZB is crazy and even a bit intimidating. :-)
      > There will be guys learning this system. For me it is impossible to
      do that within 2.5 years: family, busy job, other hobbies, website,
      competitions...
      > And if you finally master every little algorithm, you have to work
      hard each day to not forget anything and be able to execute them very
      fast.
      > Actually, I think that if there would be someone fully mastering ZB
      (and most importantly: be exceptional on F2L!!!!!!), then it would
      force a few other cubers to use it too. And that makes me feel sad...
      I don't want to work that hard. :-)
      >
      > There must be easier ways to achieve the times you could reach with
      ZB.
      > Especially corners first systems look promising, because of the
      fewer moves.
      > At the moment I am investigating CF approaches and I found some
      promising ones. CF systems where you solve several edges at once.
      > After WC2005 I will give up CFOP for a while and see what these
      systems can bring.
      > It would be great to not do this alone.
      >
      > Have fun,
      >
      > Ron
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Lars Petrus
      > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:43 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] future of the ZB method
      >
      >
      > On Jul 31, 2005, at 12:58, Ron van Bruchem wrote:
      >
      > > What I am trying to say is that after looooooooots of practice
      ZB MUST
      > > be faster than basic CFOP. Fewer steps, fewer moves.
      >
      > The case against that MUST is that for a given amount of practice
      time
      > Fridrich will always allow for X times more training per alg than
      ZB,
      > where X is the ratio of algs in ZB vs Fridrich, which I think is
      around
      > 10 or 20 (?). So each alg you encounter you will have X times
      more
      > practice with. If it's true that the more you practice an alg,
      the
      > faster you get, we're not talking about a MUST here as much as
      weighing
      > different factors.
      >
      > Inherent in a method with fewer algs is that you'll always be
      better
      > practiced on those algs than one with more.
      >
      > Another possibility it is that you need a certain amount of
      practice to
      > reach your top speed, and once you're there it can't really be
      > improved. In that case, you only need to spend X times as much
      time to
      > reach your top speed with ZB, and then your MUST will be true by
      > logical necessity. That disregarding the need to maintain your
      skills,
      > which may be ignorable.
      >
      > Anyway. My point is that for a fair comparison between methods,
      you
      > need to compare them with a similar amount of practice put in. I
      > suspect that while it's probably *possible* to become faster with
      ZB
      > than any other method using that measure, it would require
      *enormous*
      > amounts of practice to reach the breakeven point.
      >
      > - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > "He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense."
      > --- John McCarthy
      >
      > Lars Petrus - lars@l... http://lar5.com
      >
      >
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