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RE: [spcc] Need a Sub?

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  • NMarriott@sjm.com
    Dennis is going to need all the help he can get - he plays us! Neil ... From: Dennis Abraham [mailto:denniscurl@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:39
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 4, 2003
      Dennis is going to need all the help he can get - he plays us!

      Neil

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dennis Abraham [mailto:denniscurl@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:39 AM
      To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?


      Chris,
      I need a sub at 7:00 pm tonight (Tuesday March 4th)
      are you available?

      Dennis
      (651)-638-2745


      --- "sweepitin <moya@...>"
      <moya@...> wrote:
      > If any team is looking for a Sub(male) for any of
      > the late night
      > games please drop me a line. I would be happy to
      > help out
      > and get a little more curling in.
      >
      > Later,
      > Chris
      >
      >


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    • sweepitin
      Are you looking to get out and enjoy the weather this week and need a sub for your team? Than drop me a line at mogo@catchthis.com Thanx, Chris Swenke
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 17, 2003
        Are you looking to get out and enjoy the weather this week and need a sub for your team? Than drop me a line at mogo@...

        Thanx,
        Chris Swenke
      • sweepitin
        If you are unable to make it to a playoff game drop me a line and I d be happy to sub on your team. I enjoy playing all positions but am more comfortable at
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1, 2003
          If you are unable to make it to a playoff game drop me a line and I'd be
          happy to sub on your team. I enjoy playing all positions but am more
          comfortable at 2nd and 3rd.

          Later evening games work best for me.

          Happy Curling,
          Chris Swenke
        • Robin Wegener
          This brings up an interesting point. I ve always heard that at the SPCC, subs are required to play lead. (In fact, I think it s posted in the club somewhere--
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 1, 2003
            This brings up an interesting point. I've always heard that at the SPCC,
            subs are required to play lead. (In fact, I think it's posted in the
            club somewhere-- like maybe on that 'rules chart' on the wall adjacent
            to the manager's office.) Perhaps someone can clarify the club policy on
            this...

            sweepitin wrote:

            > If you are unable to make it to a playoff game drop me a line and I'd
            > be
            > happy to sub on your team. I enjoy playing all positions but am more
            > comfortable at 2nd and 3rd.
            >
            > Later evening games work best for me.
            >
            > Happy Curling,
            > Chris Swenke
            >
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike O'Neil
            The rules state that during the regular season, a sub must throw lead. During the playoffs however, a sub may play equal to his/her regular season position or
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 1, 2003
              The rules state that during the regular season, a sub
              must throw lead. During the playoffs however, a sub
              may play equal to his/her regular season position or
              above. In other words - a person who regularly plays
              second during the season may sub during the playoffs
              as a second, third or skip - a normal third may play
              third or skip etc. You're also supposed to notify the
              manager as soon as you realize you'll need a sub.

              Hope that helps...

              Mike -


              --- Robin Wegener <curler.mn@...> wrote:
              > This brings up an interesting point. I've always
              > heard that at the SPCC,
              > subs are required to play lead. (In fact, I think
              > it's posted in the
              > club somewhere-- like maybe on that 'rules chart' on
              > the wall adjacent
              > to the manager's office.) Perhaps someone can
              > clarify the club policy on
              > this...
              >
              > sweepitin wrote:
              >
              > > If you are unable to make it to a playoff game
              > drop me a line and I'd
              > > be
              > > happy to sub on your team. I enjoy playing all
              > positions but am more
              > > comfortable at 2nd and 3rd.
              > >
              > > Later evening games work best for me.
              > >
              > > Happy Curling,
              > > Chris Swenke
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              > >
              > > Send an e-mail to perform the following functions:
              > >
              >
              -------------------------------------------------------
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              > > Website: www.StPaulCurlingClub.org
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >


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            • sweepitin
              Thank you for the notification and clarification of this rule. You learn something new everyday. Chris
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 1, 2003
                Thank you for the notification and clarification of this rule.

                You learn something new everyday.
                Chris

                --- In spcurl@yahoogroups.com, Mike O'Neil <mocurl@y...> wrote:
                > The rules state that during the regular season, a sub
                > must throw lead. During the playoffs however, a sub
                > may play equal to his/her regular season position or
                > above. In other words - a person who regularly plays
                > second during the season may sub during the playoffs
                > as a second, third or skip - a normal third may play
                > third or skip etc. You're also supposed to notify the
                > manager as soon as you realize you'll need a sub.
                >
                > Hope that helps...
                >
                > Mike -
                >
                >
                > --- Robin Wegener <curler.mn@n...> wrote:
                > > This brings up an interesting point. I've always
                > > heard that at the SPCC,
                > > subs are required to play lead. (In fact, I think
                > > it's posted in the
                > > club somewhere-- like maybe on that 'rules chart' on
                > > the wall adjacent
                > > to the manager's office.) Perhaps someone can
                > > clarify the club policy on
                > > this...
                > >
                > > sweepitin wrote:
                > >
                > > > If you are unable to make it to a playoff game
                > > drop me a line and I'd
                > > > be
                > > > happy to sub on your team. I enjoy playing all
                > > positions but am more
                > > > comfortable at 2nd and 3rd.
                > > >
                > > > Later evening games work best for me.
                > > >
                > > > Happy Curling,
                > > > Chris Swenke
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > ADVERTISEMENT
                > >
                > >
                > > >
                > > > Send an e-mail to perform the following functions:
                > > >
                > >
                > -------------------------------------------------------
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                > > > Website: www.StPaulCurlingClub.org
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                > > Terms of Service.
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > > removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
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              • NMarriott@sjm.com
                You say may play... . Can a sub, who normally plays second (for example) decide to play lead? Also, during playdowns, isn t there some rules regarding
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
                  You say "may play...". Can a sub, who normally plays "second" (for example)
                  decide to play lead? Also, during playdowns, isn't there some rules
                  regarding eligibility in general? In other words, I don't think a person
                  can sub if they are STILL in the playdowns? Also, I think (someone please
                  clarify) that you can only use ONE sub instead of the normal two during
                  playdowns.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mike O'Neil [mailto:mocurl@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:30 PM
                  To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?



                  The rules state that during the regular season, a sub
                  must throw lead. During the playoffs however, a sub
                  may play equal to his/her regular season position or
                  above. In other words - a person who regularly plays
                  second during the season may sub during the playoffs
                  as a second, third or skip - a normal third may play
                  third or skip etc. You're also supposed to notify the
                  manager as soon as you realize you'll need a sub.

                  Hope that helps...

                  Mike -



                  *****************************
                  This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged,
                  confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named
                  addressee, you are notified that you are not authorized to read, print,
                  retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the
                  sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this
                  communication in error, please notify the sender via return e-mail and
                  delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude Medical, Inc.
                  *****************************


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike O'Neil
                  I think you re limited to playing equivalent to your normal position - or above, not below. You may want to consult Dennis or Dex on the specifics re: position
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
                    I think you're limited to playing equivalent to your
                    normal position - or above, not below. You may want to
                    consult Dennis or Dex on the specifics re: position as
                    well as your other questions. Admittedly, I don't have
                    the rules memorized...



                    --- NMarriott@... wrote:
                    > You say "may play...". Can a sub, who normally
                    > plays "second" (for example)
                    > decide to play lead? Also, during playdowns, isn't
                    > there some rules
                    > regarding eligibility in general? In other words, I
                    > don't think a person
                    > can sub if they are STILL in the playdowns? Also, I
                    > think (someone please
                    > clarify) that you can only use ONE sub instead of
                    > the normal two during
                    > playdowns.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Mike O'Neil [mailto:mocurl@...]
                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:30 PM
                    > To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The rules state that during the regular season, a
                    > sub
                    > must throw lead. During the playoffs however, a sub
                    > may play equal to his/her regular season position or
                    > above. In other words - a person who regularly plays
                    > second during the season may sub during the playoffs
                    > as a second, third or skip - a normal third may play
                    > third or skip etc. You're also supposed to notify
                    > the
                    > manager as soon as you realize you'll need a sub.
                    >
                    > Hope that helps...
                    >
                    > Mike -
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *****************************
                    > This communication may contain information that is
                    > proprietary, privileged,
                    > confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If
                    > you are not a named
                    > addressee, you are notified that you are not
                    > authorized to read, print,
                    > retain, copy or disseminate this communication
                    > without the consent of the
                    > sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you
                    > have received this
                    > communication in error, please notify the sender via
                    > return e-mail and
                    > delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude
                    > Medical, Inc.
                    > *****************************
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >


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                  • robin2473
                    I m sure that the club rules were crafted long ago by people much smarter than me, but this policy begs the question: If the rationale behind requiring subs to
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
                      I'm sure that the club rules were crafted long ago by people much
                      smarter than me, but this policy begs the question: If the rationale
                      behind requiring subs to throw lead is to minimize the unfairness of
                      teams using "ringer" subs, why do we abandon that rule for the
                      playoffs, which are arguably the most important games of the season?

                      In other words, why should a mediocre team be allowed to pick up
                      Somerville (or whoever) as their skip for the playoffs and then
                      cruise to a flight championship, while the same tactic is
                      unacceptable in routine league games?

                      I think the 'subs must play lead' rule should be in effect in all
                      games, both in league play and playoffs.

                      --- In spcurl@yahoogroups.com, Mike O'Neil <mocurl@y...> wrote:
                      > The rules state that during the regular season, a sub
                      > must throw lead. During the playoffs however, a sub
                      > may play equal to his/her regular season position or
                      > above. In other words - a person who regularly plays
                      > second during the season may sub during the playoffs
                      > as a second, third or skip - a normal third may play
                      > third or skip etc. You're also supposed to notify the
                      > manager as soon as you realize you'll need a sub.
                      >
                      > Hope that helps...
                      >
                      > Mike -
                      >
                      >
                      > --- Robin Wegener <curler.mn@n...> wrote:
                      > > This brings up an interesting point. I've always
                      > > heard that at the SPCC,
                      > > subs are required to play lead. (In fact, I think
                      > > it's posted in the
                      > > club somewhere-- like maybe on that 'rules chart' on
                      > > the wall adjacent
                      > > to the manager's office.) Perhaps someone can
                      > > clarify the club policy on
                      > > this...
                      > >
                      > > sweepitin wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > If you are unable to make it to a playoff game
                      > > drop me a line and I'd
                      > > > be
                      > > > happy to sub on your team. I enjoy playing all
                      > > positions but am more
                      > > > comfortable at 2nd and 3rd.
                      > > >
                      > > > Later evening games work best for me.
                      > > >
                      > > > Happy Curling,
                      > > > Chris Swenke
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Send an e-mail to perform the following functions:
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > -------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > Unsubscribe: spcurl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Website: www.StPaulCurlingClub.org
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                      > > Terms of Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > > removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
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                      > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
                      > http://platinum.yahoo.com
                    • NMarriott@sjm.com
                      Frankly I agree. In Canada league play (at least in Winnipeg), this is a standard rule for all subs. You play lead. End of discussion. Having these two
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
                        Frankly I agree. In Canada league play (at least in Winnipeg), this is a
                        standard rule for all subs. You play lead. End of discussion. Having
                        these two different possibilities also leads to confusing. I think the
                        board should perhaps address this and assign a committee to review the rules
                        (which are now yellowing on the wall).



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: robin2473 [mailto:curler.mn@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:21 AM
                        To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?



                        I'm sure that the club rules were crafted long ago by people much
                        smarter than me, but this policy begs the question: If the rationale
                        behind requiring subs to throw lead is to minimize the unfairness of
                        teams using "ringer" subs, why do we abandon that rule for the
                        playoffs, which are arguably the most important games of the season?

                        In other words, why should a mediocre team be allowed to pick up
                        Somerville (or whoever) as their skip for the playoffs and then
                        cruise to a flight championship, while the same tactic is
                        unacceptable in routine league games?

                        I think the 'subs must play lead' rule should be in effect in all
                        games, both in league play and playoffs.



                        *****************************
                        This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged,
                        confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named
                        addressee, you are notified that you are not authorized to read, print,
                        retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the
                        sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this
                        communication in error, please notify the sender via return e-mail and
                        delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude Medical, Inc.
                        *****************************


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Layton Smith
                        I know that in real world play this does not always hold true, but a team should find a sub that has similar abilities as the person that they are replacing.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
                          I know that in real world play this does not always hold true, but a team should find a sub that has similar abilities as the person that they are replacing. Curling is a game of honesty. Like golf, it is one of the few sports were you call a foul on yourself. If you burn a rock, you tell everyone that you did. This is called sportsmanship.

                          It is not in the spirit of curling to cheat by bringing in a ringer. Yes, this is cheating. Let's call it exactly what it is. If someone was caught repeatedly doing this, they are cheater and are not the caliber of person that we should have in our club. They should be asked to resign as members.

                          Post this as a guideline and you will get the attention of those that are not as honest as they should be. All the rules attempt to do is to force a conscience on those that don't normally have one. Or, to point it out that they are walking to close to the gray area. Remind those that stray and remove those that won't play by the rules.

                          As you can tell, I don't have a problem playing hardball with anyone that does not find anything wrong with cheating others.


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: NMarriott@...
                          To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:16 AM
                          Subject: RE: [spcc] Need a Sub?


                          Frankly I agree. In Canada league play (at least in Winnipeg), this is a
                          standard rule for all subs. You play lead. End of discussion. Having
                          these two different possibilities also leads to confusing. I think the
                          board should perhaps address this and assign a committee to review the rules
                          (which are now yellowing on the wall).



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: robin2473 [mailto:curler.mn@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:21 AM
                          To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?



                          I'm sure that the club rules were crafted long ago by people much
                          smarter than me, but this policy begs the question: If the rationale
                          behind requiring subs to throw lead is to minimize the unfairness of
                          teams using "ringer" subs, why do we abandon that rule for the
                          playoffs, which are arguably the most important games of the season?

                          In other words, why should a mediocre team be allowed to pick up
                          Somerville (or whoever) as their skip for the playoffs and then
                          cruise to a flight championship, while the same tactic is
                          unacceptable in routine league games?

                          I think the 'subs must play lead' rule should be in effect in all
                          games, both in league play and playoffs.



                          *****************************
                          This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged,
                          confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named
                          addressee, you are notified that you are not authorized to read, print,
                          retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the
                          sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this
                          communication in error, please notify the sender via return e-mail and
                          delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude Medical, Inc.
                          *****************************


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Joe Cloutier
                          Honesty or not, a sub of any kind {great or semi} is hard to work in your system, because they might open there mouth and try to tell you something for a diff.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 3, 2003
                            Honesty or not, a sub of any kind {great or semi} is hard to work in
                            your system, because they might open there mouth and try to tell you
                            something for a diff. Shot and it just screws up your whole game. They
                            can also be so so in there shooting because itÂ’s not there team and not
                            shoot very well. I have been on both sides of the sub. Thing, so choose
                            your subs wisely!!!!.
                            "SPLASH"

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Layton Smith [mailto:laytonsmith@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 6:25 PM
                            To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?

                            I know that in real world play this does not always hold true, but a
                            team should find a sub that has similar abilities as the person that
                            they are replacing. Curling is a game of honesty. Like golf, it is one
                            of the few sports were you call a foul on yourself. If you burn a rock,
                            you tell everyone that you did. This is called sportsmanship.

                            It is not in the spirit of curling to cheat by bringing in a ringer.
                            Yes, this is cheating. Let's call it exactly what it is. If someone
                            was caught repeatedly doing this, they are cheater and are not the
                            caliber of person that we should have in our club. They should be asked
                            to resign as members.

                            Post this as a guideline and you will get the attention of those that
                            are not as honest as they should be. All the rules attempt to do is to
                            force a conscience on those that don't normally have one. Or, to point
                            it out that they are walking to close to the gray area. Remind those
                            that stray and remove those that won't play by the rules.

                            As you can tell, I don't have a problem playing hardball with anyone
                            that does not find anything wrong with cheating others.


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: NMarriott@...
                            To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:16 AM
                            Subject: RE: [spcc] Need a Sub?


                            Frankly I agree. In Canada league play (at least in Winnipeg), this
                            is a
                            standard rule for all subs. You play lead. End of discussion.
                            Having
                            these two different possibilities also leads to confusing. I think
                            the
                            board should perhaps address this and assign a committee to review the
                            rules
                            (which are now yellowing on the wall).



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: robin2473 [mailto:curler.mn@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:21 AM
                            To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [spcc] Need a Sub?



                            I'm sure that the club rules were crafted long ago by people much
                            smarter than me, but this policy begs the question: If the rationale
                            behind requiring subs to throw lead is to minimize the unfairness of
                            teams using "ringer" subs, why do we abandon that rule for the
                            playoffs, which are arguably the most important games of the season?

                            In other words, why should a mediocre team be allowed to pick up
                            Somerville (or whoever) as their skip for the playoffs and then
                            cruise to a flight championship, while the same tactic is
                            unacceptable in routine league games?

                            I think the 'subs must play lead' rule should be in effect in all
                            games, both in league play and playoffs.



                            *****************************
                            This communication may contain information that is proprietary,
                            privileged,
                            confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a
                            named
                            addressee, you are notified that you are not authorized to read,
                            print,
                            retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of
                            the
                            sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this
                            communication in error, please notify the sender via return e-mail and
                            delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude Medical, Inc.
                            *****************************


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                            ADVERTISEMENT




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                          • NMarriott@sjm.com
                            My thoughts ditto that of Splashes. One intangible that comes into play. A sub has not played on your team for the whole year, and for many teams, that in
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 3, 2003
                              My thoughts ditto that of Splashes. One intangible that comes into play. A
                              sub has not played on your team for the whole year, and for many teams, that
                              in itself is an immediate disadvantage to matter how good he or she is.
                              This especially holds true for some of the more competitive open league and
                              super league teams.



                              What I mean be this is that throughout the year, your skip (and other
                              players) get used to each players habits, take-out weights, sweeping etc. A
                              sub can just "jump in" and know all of that. Thus, I think it is quite
                              difficult (unless you get a TRUE ringer) to get a sub who would make your
                              team stronger than the original base team.



                              There is no way to enforce a 100% fair system, unless you have each and
                              every team declare a "fifth player". I think we have to remember what
                              curling is all about - having fun.



                              ...and subs tend to want to drink more beer after subbing for you too!



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Joe Cloutier [mailto:joec@...]
                              Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:10 PM
                              To: spcurl@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [spcc] Need a Sub?



                              Honesty or not, a sub of any kind {great or semi} is hard to work in
                              your system, because they might open there mouth and try to tell you
                              something for a diff. Shot and it just screws up your whole game. They
                              can also be so so in there shooting because it's not there team and not
                              shoot very well. I have been on both sides of the sub. Thing, so choose
                              your subs wisely!!!!.
                              "SPLASH"



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