Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [sparrow_ev] Re: Sporpion lost power

Expand Messages
  • CorbinSparrow@aol.com
    hit the big red button - wait 2-3 min and reset it. that might work peter carpenter vin 76 and 208
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
      hit the big red button - wait 2-3 min and reset it.
      that might work
      peter carpenter
      vin 76 and 208
    • Davide Andrea
      ... I know it s not, because otehrwise Tom wouldn t have been able to charge: the charger would have complained (2-tone beeps). ... Do the battery compartment
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
        --- In sparrow_ev@y..., Phil Salkie <phil@h...> wrote:
        > I'm assuming the big red button's not pressed in?

        I know it's not, because otehrwise Tom wouldn't have been able to
        charge: the charger would have complained (2-tone beeps).

        > I noticed the fans were making a slightly different noise;

        Do the battery compartment fans go off once the battery is charged?

        In general, the battery compartment fans are powered by the DC-DC
        converter. In that case, your DC-DC converter IS working, and the
        problem is probably in the fuse box.

        If, on the other side, your battery compartment fans are powered
        directly by the charger (which is something I suspect Corbin started
        recently, to keep the fans from running all the time when plugegd in),
        then the 12 V circuit may be dead. First turn Off the BRB (Big Red
        Button) for 15 seconds, and turn it back on, and see if that does it.
        If not, follow Phil Salkie's perfect instructions.

        Tom, please call me at (303) 413-1500 from a portable phone, with a
        meter handy, and we can walk thorugh it together.

        Davide
      • Edward Ang
        ... On my Sparrow, if I used a cheater plug , only the charger fan would turn on. The rest of the fans were off (This is sometimes hard to tell. The Sparrow
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
          > > I noticed the fans were making a slightly
          > different noise;
          >
          > Do the battery compartment fans go off once the
          > battery is charged?
          >

          On my Sparrow, if I used a "cheater plug", only the
          charger fan would turn on. The rest of the fans were
          off (This is sometimes hard to tell. The Sparrow
          would just sound a lot quieter). This is because
          Corbin wires the 110V relay between the Line and the
          Ground. The good thing is this wiring would work on
          both 110V and 220V system (the voltage from either
          Lines to ground is still 110V). The BAD thing is that
          it trips GFI's because there are current flowing to
          the ground.

          I have since changed the "Ground" wire at the "Gas
          Tank" from Ground to Neutral. Now, the Fans run even
          with the "cheater plug". I haven't tested it with the
          GFI yet. But, I suspect it won't trip this time
          because Brad Parker confirmed this in message #3931.

          > If, on the other side, your battery compartment fans
          > are powered
          > directly by the charger (which is something I

          On newer Sparrows, I think the fans are still power by
          the 12V DC-DC. However, Corbin has replaced (or put
          it in series) the 110V relay with the built in "finish
          charge" relay on the charger. This can be clearly
          seen on Brian's photo "220 Setup 04.jpg" on FreeDrive.
          The relay connectors are right next to the battery
          connector. This relay opens at the end of charging
          thus turns the fans off. This is mentioned on the
          charger manual.

          Hope this helps.

          Ed Ang


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
          http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
        • tom.morrow@oracle.com
          ... Correct. I did try to push it in and then pull it out, but I only waited a second or so with it pushed in, so I ll definitely try pushing it in for a few
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
            Hey thanks for the advice guys. Some answers to the questions:

            > I'm assuming the big red button's not pressed in?

            Correct. I did try to push it in and then pull it out, but I only
            waited a second or so with it pushed in, so I'll definitely try
            pushing it in for a few minutes and give it another go when I get
            home tonight.

            > Do the battery compartment fans go off once the battery is charged?

            I'm not completely sure... when I woke up this morning after
            plugging the car in last night, the fans were not as loud as I had
            remembered in the past, so perhaps some of the fans shut down and
            others continued running? I'll look into this a bit more when I get
            it running because I'm curious!


            So my plans for when I get home are:

            1. Push the Big Red for a few minutes, pull it out, and try again.
            2. Find the fuse to the DC-DC converter and see if that is still good
            and seated properly.

            3. Poke around in the regular fusebox and see if there are any blown
            fuses.

            Thanks folks!

            -Tom
          • Davide Andrea
            Ah, very instructive, thank you. Davide
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
              Ah, very instructive, thank you.

              Davide

              --- In sparrow_ev@y..., Edward Ang <EdAng@m...> wrote:
              > On my Sparrow, if I used a "cheater plug", only the
              > charger fan would turn on. The rest of the fans were
              > off (This is sometimes hard to tell. The Sparrow
              > would just sound a lot quieter). This is because
              > Corbin wires the 110V relay between the Line and the
              > Ground. The good thing is this wiring would work on
              > both 110V and 220V system (the voltage from either
              > Lines to ground is still 110V). The BAD thing is that
              > it trips GFI's because there are current flowing to
              > the ground.
              >
              > I have since changed the "Ground" wire at the "Gas
              > Tank" from Ground to Neutral. Now, the Fans run even
              > with the "cheater plug". I haven't tested it with the
              > GFI yet. But, I suspect it won't trip this time
              > because Brad Parker confirmed this in message #3931.
              >
              > > If, on the other side, your battery compartment fans
              > > are powered
              > > directly by the charger (which is something I
              >
              > On newer Sparrows, I think the fans are still power by
              > the 12V DC-DC. However, Corbin has replaced (or put
              > it in series) the 110V relay with the built in "finish
              > charge" relay on the charger. This can be clearly
              > seen on Brian's photo "220 Setup 04.jpg" on FreeDrive.
              > The relay connectors are right next to the battery
              > connector. This relay opens at the end of charging
              > thus turns the fans off. This is mentioned on the
              > charger manual.
              >
              > Hope this helps.
              >
              > Ed Ang
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
              > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
            • Davide Andrea
              ... Exactly 10 seconds is what it takes to reset the Dc-DC converetr after an overvoltage or overtemperature. So, you only nee3d to wait 15 seconds. ... But of
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
                --- In sparrow_ev@y..., tom.morrow@o... wrote:
                >
                > Hey thanks for the advice guys. Some answers to the questions:
                >
                > > I'm assuming the big red button's not pressed in?
                >
                > Correct. I did try to push it in and then pull it out, but I only
                > waited a second or so with it pushed in, so I'll definitely try
                > pushing it in for a few minutes and give it another go when I get
                > home tonight.

                Exactly 10 seconds is what it takes to reset the Dc-DC converetr after
                an overvoltage or overtemperature. So, you only nee3d to wait 15
                seconds.


                > when I woke up this morning after
                > plugging the car in last night, the fans were not as loud as I had
                > remembered in the past, so perhaps some of the fans shut down and
                > others continued running?

                But of course (duh): you are hearing the charger fan, while the
                battery compartment fans are Off. I missed that clue in your last e-
                mail. This, and Ed Ang's explanation, tell me that your 12 V is indeed
                missing.

                > So my plans for when I get home are:
                >
                > 1. Push the Big Red for a few minutes, pull it out, and try again.

                If that does it, I may have a very quick fix to avoid the problem in
                the future. Also, if that does it, I bet you anything that your dealer
                "fixed" Scorpion when he/she turned off the BRB, and the fuse was OK
                all along.

                I'll expect your call in 3 hours. Please call even if the BRG cycling
                does fix it.

                Davide
              • tom.morrow@oracle.com
                Hey, it worked! I pushed the red button in for a few minutes and then when I pulled it out, the E-meter began lighting up. I turned the key on and the whole
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
                  Hey, it worked!

                  I pushed the red button in for a few minutes and then when I pulled it
                  out, the E-meter began lighting up. I turned the key on and the whole
                  car died (all lights out). I pressed the red button in again and took
                  the keys out, waited a few minutes, and then I got it going when I
                  turned the key. But it was really weak; I think the DC-DC converter
                  wasn't putting out enough juice because the light was dim and when I
                  would roll down windows the headlight would dim tremendously and I
                  would hear relays clicking in the back. I pressed the accelerator
                  and I got just a very faint jolt forward but it wouldn't move. I went
                  through a few more cycles of turning it off and then on, and pretty
                  soon the headlight and accessories seemed strong, but it still
                  wouldn't move. By playing around some more, I discovered that if the
                  Forward/Reverse switch is in Forward or Reverse when the car is
                  started, then the car won't move at all. By starting the car with the
                  Forward/Reverse switch in Neutral, everything worked, and I went for a
                  drive!

                  Thanks to everyone who suggested fiddling with the Big Red button and
                  other things!

                  So the moral of the story is when the car won't start:
                  - Push the Big Red in for 15 seconds to several minutes.
                  - Make sure the direction switch is in neutral when starting.
                  - Turn the ignition off and then on, making sure to hold it on the
                  "full start" position for a second or so while the relays click into
                  place.

                  -Tom

                  #149: Sporpion
                • Davide Andrea
                  ... Did you check for any UFOs overhead? There s still something really screwed up in Sporpion. You shouldn t need to have the car in neutral before starting.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
                    > I think the DC-DC converter
                    > wasn't putting out enough juice because the light was dim

                    Did you check for any UFOs overhead?

                    There's still something really screwed up in Sporpion. You shouldn't
                    need to have the car in neutral before starting. And the dimming
                    lights bother me .

                    I truly doubt that the Dc-Dc converted is not putting out enough
                    voltage. If the load pulls too much current, the DC-DC converter shuts
                    down long before the voltage drops. Instead, I think that there's some
                    bad contact (for example, the fuse holders), and you're losing voltage
                    across it. That's bad enough, but what's worse is that, wherever that
                    voltage is going, it is getting very hot! So, you need to find it, or
                    it will find you, stranded.

                    What still confuses me is what is making the DC-DC converter shut
                    down. It is protected against:
                    *) Over temperature: 95 °C. Shuts down completely. To restore, remove
                    input power, let cool and, reapply input power.
                    *) Output overcurrent: 33 A nominal. Self restarting after load
                    returns to normal.
                    *) Output overvoltage: 15 V nominal. Shuts down completely. To
                    restore, remove input power and reapply it.

                    Because it's not self restarting, and because I doubt it's
                    overheating, that leaves overvoltage. The only thing that could cause
                    overvoltage, other than the DC-DC converter itself, is an intermittent
                    contact in series with a high inductance (such as the contactors'
                    coils, except that they have flyback diodes on them).

                    So, I don't understand it.

                    Any ideas, other Sparrownauts?

                    Davide

                    --- In sparrow_ev@y..., tom.morrow@o... wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey, it worked!
                    >
                    > I pushed the red button in for a few minutes and then when I pulled it
                    > out, the E-meter began lighting up. I turned the key on and the whole
                    > car died (all lights out). I pressed the red button in again and took
                    > the keys out, waited a few minutes, and then I got it going when I
                    > turned the key. But it was really weak; I think the DC-DC converter
                    > wasn't putting out enough juice because the light was dim and when I
                    > would roll down windows the headlight would dim tremendously and I
                    > would hear relays clicking in the back. I pressed the accelerator
                    > and I got just a very faint jolt forward but it wouldn't move. I went
                    > through a few more cycles of turning it off and then on, and pretty
                    > soon the headlight and accessories seemed strong, but it still
                    > wouldn't move. By playing around some more, I discovered that if the
                    > Forward/Reverse switch is in Forward or Reverse when the car is
                    > started, then the car won't move at all. By starting the car with the
                    > Forward/Reverse switch in Neutral, everything worked, and I went for a
                    > drive!
                    >
                    > Thanks to everyone who suggested fiddling with the Big Red button and
                    > other things!
                    >
                    > So the moral of the story is when the car won't start:
                    > - Push the Big Red in for 15 seconds to several minutes.
                    > - Make sure the direction switch is in neutral when starting.
                    > - Turn the ignition off and then on, making sure to hold it on the
                    > "full start" position for a second or so while the relays click into
                    > place.
                    >
                    > -Tom
                    >
                    > #149: Sporpion
                  • Alan Batie
                    ... The dimming lights is a problem, but the car in neutral is a feature of the Kilovac controllers. I suppose it *is* is a little safer and it is a good
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 2, 2001
                      On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 03:59:07AM -0000, Davide Andrea wrote:
                      > There's still something really screwed up in Sporpion. You shouldn't
                      > need to have the car in neutral before starting. And the dimming
                      > lights bother me .

                      The dimming lights is a problem, but the car in neutral is a "feature"
                      of the Kilovac controllers. I suppose it *is* is a little safer and
                      it is a good habit to be putting it in neutral when parked.

                      --
                      Alan Batie ______ www.rdrop.com/users/alan Me
                      alan@... \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
                      PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
                      27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ www.anti-spam.net NO SPAM!
                    • tom.morrow@oracle.com
                      Well, Sporpion is definitely usable now, but things aren t completely smooth sailing. When I started it up this morning, after plugging it in last night, I
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 3, 2001
                        Well, Sporpion is definitely usable now, but things aren't completely
                        smooth sailing. When I started it up this morning, after plugging it
                        in last night, I had the same problem as before where pressing the
                        accelerator just barely rocked it a little without moving it (and yes
                        the parking brake was off). I turned it off and on a few times and
                        then it worked, but after I had driven about 10 feet it wouldn't
                        accelerate again. I turned it off and on again, and from then on it
                        has worked fine. I drove 6 miles to work and then took it to lunch 4
                        miles each way with no problems. It seems like the problems I have
                        been having have always been in the morning after resting from a full
                        charge. I wonder if something needs to warm up inside it.

                        David's hypothesis of the DC-DC fuse not being seated not quite right
                        and causing resistance sounds like a plausible explanation; perhaps
                        once some heat in the controller compartment builds up it shifts into
                        a full-contact position. I'll have to check that.

                        As usual ideas and suggestions are welcome.

                        Driving it today was really fun!

                        -Tom
                      • Environmental Motors Sales Team
                        Check for loose wires. Sounds like a bad connection some place. Possibly the one of the shunt in the controller compartment. Bolts sometimes vibrate loose.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 4, 2001
                          Check for loose wires. Sounds like a bad connection some place. Possibly
                          the one of the shunt in the controller compartment. Bolts sometimes vibrate
                          loose. Corbin does not use lock washers.
                          Lawrence

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <tom.morrow@...>
                          To: <sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 3:25 PM
                          Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Sporpion lost power


                          >
                          > Well, Sporpion is definitely usable now, but things aren't completely
                          > smooth sailing. When I started it up this morning, after plugging it
                          > in last night, I had the same problem as before where pressing the
                          > accelerator just barely rocked it a little without moving it (and yes
                          > the parking brake was off). I turned it off and on a few times and
                          > then it worked, but after I had driven about 10 feet it wouldn't
                          > accelerate again. I turned it off and on again, and from then on it
                          > has worked fine. I drove 6 miles to work and then took it to lunch 4
                          > miles each way with no problems. It seems like the problems I have
                          > been having have always been in the morning after resting from a full
                          > charge. I wonder if something needs to warm up inside it.
                          >
                          > David's hypothesis of the DC-DC fuse not being seated not quite right
                          > and causing resistance sounds like a plausible explanation; perhaps
                          > once some heat in the controller compartment builds up it shifts into
                          > a full-contact position. I'll have to check that.
                          >
                          > As usual ideas and suggestions are welcome.
                          >
                          > Driving it today was really fun!
                          >
                          > -Tom
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > sparrow_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Keith Bierman
                          ... Nor locktite ... is there any reason why fiberglass wouldn t like either (or both) of those technologies?
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 4, 2001
                            Environmental Motors Sales Team wrote:

                            > Check for loose wires. Sounds like a bad connection some place.
                            > Possibly
                            > the one of the shunt in the controller compartment. Bolts
                            > sometimes vibrate
                            > loose. Corbin does not use lock washers.
                            > Lawrence

                            Nor locktite ... is there any reason why fiberglass wouldn't like
                            either (or both) of those technologies?
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.