Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [sparrow_ev] Newer Owner and New Batteries

Expand Messages
  • John G. Lussmyer
    ... Ouch. It does sound like your DC-DC failed. Why it failed, that s harder. Hmm, any chance that you turned the charger on while the BRB was pressed? That
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 13, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
      > With the big red Button pulled out, I get pack voltage 162 volts between the top wire on the left and the bottom wire on the left. I read 0 volts between the top wire on the right and the lower wire on the right.
      >
      > If I push in the BRB, the voltage ont he left is slowly declining to 0 and still no reading ont he right. If I read top wire to top wire the meter just fluctuates. Same with the bottom.
      >
      > If this converter is bad, where do I get one and what could have caused it to just fail?
      >

      Ouch. It does sound like your DC-DC failed.
      Why it failed, that's harder. Hmm, any chance that you turned the
      charger on while the BRB was pressed? That MIGHT have put a high enough
      voltage spike to do damage - but I didn't think that Zivna's would do
      that. (PFC chargers will, that's how I killed my DC-DC once.)

      As for replacing it, that's a bit harder. It's Vicor module, which are
      nice - and expensive.
      MyersMotors.com has them for $850.
      One possible cheaper alternative is an IOTA power supply off Ebay.
      Usually under $100. The problem with these is that they are bulky, and
      will not fit where the Vicor module was. Last time I used one I had to
      put it in the back hatch area. (They also draw more current when idle,
      so you will want to push in the BRB if you leave the bird parked for
      more than a couple of days.)



      --
      --
      John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@...
      Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com
    • stonewerk2000
      Ron at Black Sheep has the Vicor for $465: http://www.black-sheep.us/ But before you replace it, try the following: 1. Push the BRB to turn off the input to
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 14, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Ron at Black Sheep has the Vicor for $465:

        http://www.black-sheep.us/

        But before you replace it, try the following:
        1. Push the BRB to turn off the input to the Vicor.
        2. Disconnect *all* the wires to the Vicor (Left and Right side), making sure you record the connections before you remove them.
        3. Let the module rest for a bit (let's say a half hour).
        4. Reconnect the module.
        5. Pull the BRB (turn on the HV).
        6. Retake the measurements you made on the DC-DC.
        7. Post the results.

        The DC-DC input (HV) is on the lest (top and bottom), the output terminals (12V) are on the right (top and bottom).

        By the way, where are you located?

        Good Luck,
        Danny

        --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@...> wrote:
        >
        > With the big red Button pulled out, I get pack voltage 162 volts between the top wire on the left and the bottom wire on the left.  I read 0 volts between the top wire on the right and the lower wire on the right.
        >  
        > If I push in the BRB, the voltage ont he left is slowly declining to 0 and still no reading ont he right.  If I read top wire to top wire the meter just fluctuates.  Same with the bottom.
        >  
        > If this converter is bad, where do I get one and what could have caused it  to just fail? 
        >
        > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@...>
        > Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] Newer Owner and New Batteries
        > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:44 PM
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
        > > I had not recharged the pack after the last use because of the gassing I was getting trying to charge.
        > >
        > > I have looked at the small 4 wires on the back of the Dc/Dc converter and they are all in place.
        > >
        > You'll have to use your multi-meter to check the voltages.
        > 2 of them are the pack voltage, and 2 are your 12v system.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • JAMES A DUFFIE
        I Took your advice and this is what happened.   The BRB was OFF since yesterday.  I did not disconnect anything and I measured the pack side and got  about
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 14, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I Took your advice and this is what happened.
           
          The BRB was OFF since yesterday.  I did not disconnect anything and I measured the pack side and got  about 15 volts.  0 Volts on the  output side.
           
          I disconnected everything and let it sit about 2 1/2 hours.
           
          When I put back on the pack side wires, The top left  had a little spark when I put the lead on the converter.  I measured the pack with the BRB off and I had 15 volts.  This was measured at the converter and at the two posts between battery 1 and 13.
           
          When I pulled out the BRB, the meter on the dah and everything came back to life.
           
          The voltage at the converter was the 162 volts I have at the pack setting and the output side was showing the 12 volt output it should have.
           
          I tried the key and everything is back to normal.
           
          I guess this was like the old computer reboot.  
           
          I don't know if this will be an issue when I am out and around unless I push in the BRB. 
           
          I know the 162 volts is a partial discharge, but I am a bit leery still about charging since when I try, the Zvian seems to go farther than it should and I start to get the hissing. 
           
          Would like to make another trip to the plant  10 mile round trip at less than 45 mph tomorrow, but it is suposed to rain and I would just as soon not try a reany day run just yet.
           
          Thank you for your feed back and help.
           
          By the way you asked where I am located and it is Athens, Georgia.
           
          On Wednesday, I plan on going to the Atlanta EV Club ot he South meeting so I can take about the issues witht he 2-3 owners there.  Thy have been helpful too.
           
          My converter seems to be a slightly different make.
           
          C Technologies, Santa Barbra Prototype DC-DC Controller CS1 DC  Serial Number 0014.  Input 100-200 VDC  Output 12 DC  156 V DC is engraved in the aluminum.  I did a short Google Search and did not find them.

          --- On Mon, 9/14/09, stonewerk2000 <dansto@...> wrote:


          From: stonewerk2000 <dansto@...>
          Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Newer Owner and New Batteries
          To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:26 AM


           



          Ron at Black Sheep has the Vicor for $465:

          http://www.black- sheep.us/

          But before you replace it, try the following:
          1. Push the BRB to turn off the input to the Vicor.
          2. Disconnect *all* the wires to the Vicor (Left and Right side), making sure you record the connections before you remove them.
          3. Let the module rest for a bit (let's say a half hour).
          4. Reconnect the module.
          5. Pull the BRB (turn on the HV).
          6. Retake the measurements you made on the DC-DC.
          7. Post the results.

          The DC-DC input (HV) is on the lest (top and bottom), the output terminals (12V) are on the right (top and bottom).

          By the way, where are you located?

          Good Luck,
          Danny

          --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > With the big red Button pulled out, I get pack voltage 162 volts between the top wire on the left and the bottom wire on the left.  I read 0 volts between the top wire on the right and the lower wire on the right.
          >  
          > If I push in the BRB, the voltage ont he left is slowly declining to 0 and still no reading ont he right.  If I read top wire to top wire the meter just fluctuates.  Same with the bottom.
          >  
          > If this converter is bad, where do I get one and what could have caused it  to just fail? 
          >
          > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@...>
          > Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] Newer Owner and New Batteries
          > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com
          > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:44 PM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
          > > I had not recharged the pack after the last use because of the gassing I was getting trying to charge.
          > >
          > > I have looked at the small 4 wires on the back of the Dc/Dc converter and they are all in place.
          > >
          > You'll have to use your multi-meter to check the voltages.
          > 2 of them are the pack voltage, and 2 are your 12v system.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • pdwarrenann
          I just replaced my brake light pressure switch last weekend. It is behind the small panel just by the BRB on 052. Replacement can be found at Autozone (WELLS
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 14, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I just replaced my brake light pressure switch last weekend. It is behind the small panel just by the BRB on 052. Replacement can be found at Autozone (WELLS F4805).
            Paul

            --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Eino Lindfors" <elindfors@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, concerning the brake lights... I still have a problem with the pressure switches in my sparrow... I gave up on them. I added a switch in parallel with the pressure switch inside the cabin and wired it to the brake petal. So, when I press the brake the brake lights come on. I think most sparrows have problems with the pressure switches not working right. The problem is that when they fail you may not notice that the brake lights don't work... that's why I circumvented them.
            >
            > Eino
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • stonewerk2000
            It s difficult to say exactly what happened w/o investigating in depth (which VERY difficult in a non-interactive fashion). I was hoping you d local and I
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 15, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              It's difficult to say exactly what happened w/o investigating in depth (which VERY difficult in a non-interactive fashion). I was hoping you'd local and I could assist, but alas, I'm in CA (Sacramento area).

              DC-DC converters of this type usually have all sorts of electronic protection, for example, over voltage protection and under voltage lock-out at the input, and short circuit protection at the output, thermal switches, etc. But since they are "switching" power supplies (a type of design topology), getting them to restart can sometimes be tricky. Disconnecting, resting, and reconnecting often does the trick.

              Glad to be of help.
              Danny


              --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@...> wrote:
              >
              > I Took your advice and this is what happened.
              >  
              > The BRB was OFF since yesterday.  I did not disconnect anything and I measured the pack side and got  about 15 volts.  0 Volts on the  output side.
              >  
              > I disconnected everything and let it sit about 2 1/2 hours.
              >  
              > When I put back on the pack side wires, The top left  had a little spark when I put the lead on the converter.  I measured the pack with the BRB off and I had 15 volts.  This was measured at the converter and at the two posts between battery 1 and 13.
              >  
              > When I pulled out the BRB, the meter on the dah and everything came back to life.
              >  
              > The voltage at the converter was the 162 volts I have at the pack setting and the output side was showing the 12 volt output it should have.
              >  
              > I tried the key and everything is back to normal.
              >  
              > I guess this was like the old computer reboot.  
              >  
              > I don't know if this will be an issue when I am out and around unless I push in the BRB. 
              >  
              > I know the 162 volts is a partial discharge, but I am a bit leery still about charging since when I try, the Zvian seems to go farther than it should and I start to get the hissing. 
              >  
              > Would like to make another trip to the plant  10 mile round trip at less than 45 mph tomorrow, but it is suposed to rain and I would just as soon not try a reany day run just yet.
              >  
              > Thank you for your feed back and help.
              >  
              > By the way you asked where I am located and it is Athens, Georgia.
              >  
              > On Wednesday, I plan on going to the Atlanta EV Club ot he South meeting so I can take about the issues witht he 2-3 owners there.  Thy have been helpful too.
              >  
              > My converter seems to be a slightly different make.
              >  
              > C Technologies, Santa Barbra Prototype DC-DC Controller CS1 DC  Serial Number 0014.  Input 100-200 VDC  Output 12 DC  156 V DC is engraved in the aluminum.  I did a short Google Search and did not find them.
              >
              > --- On Mon, 9/14/09, stonewerk2000 <dansto@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: stonewerk2000 <dansto@...>
              > Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Newer Owner and New Batteries
              > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:26 AM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Ron at Black Sheep has the Vicor for $465:
              >
              > http://www.black- sheep.us/
              >
              > But before you replace it, try the following:
              > 1. Push the BRB to turn off the input to the Vicor.
              > 2. Disconnect *all* the wires to the Vicor (Left and Right side), making sure you record the connections before you remove them.
              > 3. Let the module rest for a bit (let's say a half hour).
              > 4. Reconnect the module.
              > 5. Pull the BRB (turn on the HV).
              > 6. Retake the measurements you made on the DC-DC.
              > 7. Post the results.
              >
              > The DC-DC input (HV) is on the lest (top and bottom), the output terminals (12V) are on the right (top and bottom).
              >
              > By the way, where are you located?
              >
              > Good Luck,
              > Danny
              >
              > --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@ .> wrote:
              > >
              > > With the big red Button pulled out, I get pack voltage 162 volts between the top wire on the left and the bottom wire on the left.  I read 0 volts between the top wire on the right and the lower wire on the right.
              > >  
              > > If I push in the BRB, the voltage ont he left is slowly declining to 0 and still no reading ont he right.  If I read top wire to top wire the meter just fluctuates.  Same with the bottom.
              > >  
              > > If this converter is bad, where do I get one and what could have caused it  to just fail? 
              > >
              > > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > From: John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@>
              > > Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] Newer Owner and New Batteries
              > > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com
              > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:44 PM
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
              > > > I had not recharged the pack after the last use because of the gassing I was getting trying to charge.
              > > >
              > > > I have looked at the small 4 wires on the back of the Dc/Dc converter and they are all in place.
              > > >
              > > You'll have to use your multi-meter to check the voltages.
              > > 2 of them are the pack voltage, and 2 are your 12v system.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Richard Clester
              I can t speak to the converter that you have... but I know from stupid experience... that if you reverse the leads on the input side of the Vicor... a Vicor
              Message 6 of 28 , Sep 15, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I can't speak to the converter that you have... but I know from stupid experience... that if you reverse the leads on the input side of the Vicor... a Vicor is toast.  Also from that same experiece shelf is the knowledge that if you connect the high voltage wires to the low voltage output side... a smoking converter will result... don't ask me how I know... just believe me when I tell you so.  Be extremely aware and sensitve to the positive and negative as well as knowing the low side from the high side.  Vicor is very unforgiving.
                 
                Happy that yours restarted!!!
                Rick

                --- On Tue, 9/15/09, stonewerk2000 <dansto@...> wrote:


                From: stonewerk2000 <dansto@...>
                Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Newer Owner and New Batteries
                To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 4:54 AM


                 



                It's difficult to say exactly what happened w/o investigating in depth (which VERY difficult in a non-interactive fashion). I was hoping you'd local and I could assist, but alas, I'm in CA (Sacramento area).

                DC-DC converters of this type usually have all sorts of electronic protection, for example, over voltage protection and under voltage lock-out at the input, and short circuit protection at the output, thermal switches, etc. But since they are "switching" power supplies (a type of design topology), getting them to restart can sometimes be tricky. Disconnecting, resting, and reconnecting often does the trick.

                Glad to be of help.
                Danny

                --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > I Took your advice and this is what happened.
                >  
                > The BRB was OFF since yesterday.  I did not disconnect anything and I measured the pack side and got  about 15 volts.  0 Volts on the  output side.
                >  
                > I disconnected everything and let it sit about 2 1/2 hours.
                >  
                > When I put back on the pack side wires, The top left  had a little spark when I put the lead on the converter.  I measured the pack with the BRB off and I had 15 volts.  This was measured at the converter and at the two posts between battery 1 and 13.
                >  
                > When I pulled out the BRB, the meter on the dah and everything came back to life.
                >  
                > The voltage at the converter was the 162 volts I have at the pack setting and the output side was showing the 12 volt output it should have.
                >  
                > I tried the key and everything is back to normal.
                >  
                > I guess this was like the old computer reboot.  
                >  
                > I don't know if this will be an issue when I am out and around unless I push in the BRB. 
                >  
                > I know the 162 volts is a partial discharge, but I am a bit leery still about charging since when I try, the Zvian seems to go farther than it should and I start to get the hissing. 
                >  
                > Would like to make another trip to the plant  10 mile round trip at less than 45 mph tomorrow, but it is suposed to rain and I would just as soon not try a reany day run just yet.
                >  
                > Thank you for your feed back and help.
                >  
                > By the way you asked where I am located and it is Athens, Georgia.
                >  
                > On Wednesday, I plan on going to the Atlanta EV Club ot he South meeting so I can take about the issues witht he 2-3 owners there.  Thy have been helpful too.
                >  
                > My converter seems to be a slightly different make.
                >  
                > C Technologies, Santa Barbra Prototype DC-DC Controller CS1 DC  Serial Number 0014.  Input 100-200 VDC  Output 12 DC  156 V DC is engraved in the aluminum.  I did a short Google Search and did not find them.
                >
                > --- On Mon, 9/14/09, stonewerk2000 <dansto@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: stonewerk2000 <dansto@...>
                > Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Newer Owner and New Batteries
                > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com
                > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:26 AM
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > Ron at Black Sheep has the Vicor for $465:
                >
                > http://www.black- sheep.us/
                >
                > But before you replace it, try the following:
                > 1. Push the BRB to turn off the input to the Vicor.
                > 2. Disconnect *all* the wires to the Vicor (Left and Right side), making sure you record the connections before you remove them.
                > 3. Let the module rest for a bit (let's say a half hour).
                > 4. Reconnect the module.
                > 5. Pull the BRB (turn on the HV).
                > 6. Retake the measurements you made on the DC-DC.
                > 7. Post the results.
                >
                > The DC-DC input (HV) is on the lest (top and bottom), the output terminals (12V) are on the right (top and bottom).
                >
                > By the way, where are you located?
                >
                > Good Luck,
                > Danny
                >
                > --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@ .> wrote:
                > >
                > > With the big red Button pulled out, I get pack voltage 162 volts between the top wire on the left and the bottom wire on the left.  I read 0 volts between the top wire on the right and the lower wire on the right.
                > >  
                > > If I push in the BRB, the voltage ont he left is slowly declining to 0 and still no reading ont he right.  If I read top wire to top wire the meter just fluctuates.  Same with the bottom.
                > >  
                > > If this converter is bad, where do I get one and what could have caused it  to just fail? 
                > >
                > > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > From: John G. Lussmyer <Cougar@>
                > > Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] Newer Owner and New Batteries
                > > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogro ups.com
                > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:44 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
                > > > I had not recharged the pack after the last use because of the gassing I was getting trying to charge.
                > > >
                > > > I have looked at the small 4 wires on the back of the Dc/Dc converter and they are all in place.
                > > >
                > > You'll have to use your multi-meter to check the voltages.
                > > 2 of them are the pack voltage, and 2 are your 12v system.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JAMES A DUFFIE
                I have spent the time getting the sparrow back going.  Someone suggested taking all power of the DC/DC converter and that worked.  I have been running wires
                Message 7 of 28 , Sep 28, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have spent the time getting the sparrow back going.  Someone suggested taking all power of the DC/DC converter and that worked.  I have been running wires from the batteries up front to a terminal strip int he back using 12 guage fused wires.  I tried to measure the voltage across the tbig red button  while it was in and got a bad reading.  When the button was pulled out, I got a good reading.  I also confirmed I have the two monitors wired correctly to your diagram.  When they reset though, one still says 6 being monitored and one saying 8 monitored.  I still have not hooked up the display.  I was trying to determine which of the two accessory outlets is keyed and which lead from the adapter is +.
                   
                  I charged the battteries monitoring the voltage in with the Zivian and checked each bzttery.  They charged and the charger shut off without causing any hissing.  The monitor did read some H readings.  The voltages did hit  16 volts on some batteries at 2.1 amps.
                   
                  After the charger shut off, the voltages were in the 13 volt range.
                   
                  The car was used for one 10 mile trip and sat for two days.  The voltages were inthe mid 12 range.
                   
                  I have charged again watching the voltages and after two hours, all the voltages except one were in the low 16 volt range.  Amps were again 2.2.  This time I did hear hissing in the front compartment.  Both monitors indicated H during the last hour of the charge.  The one in the cabin showed 1,3,4,5,6.  The one in the front indicated 1,2,4,5,6,7.  How do these numbers relate to the battery numbers 1 - 13?
                   
                  Here is the charging history for the last charge. 9/ 23/09
                   








                  Battery #
                  Voltage at
                  Start
                  5:30
                  Charger on
                  Blink Red
                  6:30 Charger
                  on Blink Red
                  8:20
                  Charger off
                  8:25
                  Charger on
                  Blink Red
                  10:00
                  Charger on
                  Yellow
                  10:30
                  Charger off
                  Green Light



                  192 V
                  191.5 V

                  192 V
                  206 V




                  4.8 A
                  2.7

                  2.8 A
                  2.1 A





                  OFF 174 V
                  168.5 V


                  175.5 V

                  1
                  12.53
                  13.3
                  12.95
                  12.8
                  13.24
                  13.44
                  13.19

                  2
                  12.65
                  13.9
                  13.09
                  12.92
                  13.83
                  16.7
                  13.5

                  3
                  12.67
                  14.51
                  13.11
                  12.94
                  14.39
                  16.2
                  13.53

                  4
                  12.67
                  14.8
                  13.18
                  12.94
                  14.46
                  16.8
                  13.52

                  5
                  12.67
                  14.86
                  13.15
                  12.96
                  14.33
                  16.13
                  13.52

                  6
                  12.67
                  15.1
                  13.16
                  12.95
                  14.95
                  16.2
                  13.4

                  7
                  12.67
                  14.9
                  13.14
                  12.94
                  15.58
                  16.37
                  13.54

                  8
                  12.55
                  13.2
                  12.99
                  12.83
                  13.28
                  13.5
                  13.23

                  9

                  15.1
                  13.15
                  12.96
                  15.29
                  16.2
                  13.56

                  10
                  12.68
                  14.88
                  13.11
                  12.95
                  14.77
                  16.2
                  13.53

                  11
                  12.7
                  15.26
                  13.12
                  12.96
                  15.27
                  16.3
                  13.54

                  12
                  12.72
                  15.7
                  13.13
                  12.97
                  15.64
                  16.3
                  13.56

                  13
                  12.71
                  15.4
                  13.11
                  12.97
                  15.56
                  16.3
                  13.57











                  Battery #
                  Voltage at
                  Start
                  5:30
                  Charger on
                  SolidRed
                  6:30 Charger
                  on Blink Red
                  7:30 PM
                  Yellow
                  Solid
                  7:30 PM



                  169.5
                  190. V
                  205 V




                  8.2 A
                  7.5 A
                  2.2 A



                  162.5



                  175

                  1
                  12.37
                  13
                  13.6
                  13.46
                  13.1

                  2
                  12.48
                  13.24
                  14.1
                  16
                  13.3

                  3
                  12.5
                  13.3
                  14.57
                  16.1
                  13.3

                  4
                  12.49
                  13.36
                  14.25
                  16.08
                  13.27

                  5
                  12.5
                  13.36
                  14.05
                  16.04
                  13.27

                  6
                  12.51
                  13.34
                  14.47
                  16.16
                  13.28

                  7
                  12.49
                  13.36
                  14.86
                  16.19
                  13.26

                  8
                  12.4
                  13.22
                  13.64
                  13.52
                  13.07

                  9
                  12.51
                  13.36
                  14.3
                  16.16
                  13.27

                  10
                  12.51
                  13.34
                  14.6
                  16.14
                  13.3

                  11
                  12.51
                  13.4
                  15.7
                  16.18
                  13.33

                  12
                  12.53
                  13.4
                  15.9
                  16.23
                  13.36

                  13
                  12.52
                  13.38
                  15.9
                  16.2
                  13.38











                  HC 4,5,6
                  HC 1,3,4,5,6





                  HF 1,2,4,5,6,7












                  Hissing heard in front


                  Any further suggestions?
                   
                  Thank you





                  Any further suggestions?
                   
                  Thank you













                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John G. Lussmyer
                  ... One possible problem is if your Sparrow has a different pack configuration than what I wrote the manual for. Corbin seemed to change battery layouts and
                  Message 8 of 28 , Sep 29, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
                    > I have spent the time getting the sparrow back going. Someone suggested taking all power of the DC/DC converter and that worked. I have been running wires from the batteries up front to a terminal strip int he back using 12 guage fused wires. I tried to measure the voltage across the tbig red button while it was in and got a bad reading. When the button was pulled out, I got a good reading. I also confirmed I have the two monitors wired correctly to your diagram. When they reset though, one still says 6 being monitored and one saying 8 monitored. I still have not hooked up the display. I was trying to determine which of the two accessory outlets is keyed and which lead from the adapter is +.
                    >
                    > I have charged again watching the voltages and after two hours, all the voltages except one were in the low 16 volt range. Amps were again 2.2. This time I did hear hissing in the front compartment. Both monitors indicated H during the last hour of the charge. The one in the cabin showed 1,3,4,5,6. The one in the front indicated 1,2,4,5,6,7. How do these numbers relate to the battery numbers 1 - 13?
                    >

                    One possible problem is if your Sparrow has a different pack
                    configuration than what I wrote the manual for. Corbin seemed to change
                    battery layouts and wiring several times.
                    Your under-seat battery layout looks the same, but I can't tell what the
                    under-hood layout is like.

                    On the Monitor LED display, batteries are numbered 0-9.
                    The one that is saying 8 monitored is probably including the split
                    across the BRS as a battery. Have you performed a successful Battery
                    Count configuration yet?
                    Configuration: Press both switches A and B and hold them down, then
                    press reset, continue holding A and B for a few seconds, then release
                    them to get into config mode.
                    Then press switch A to set the number of batteries correctly.

                    --
                    --
                    John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@...
                    Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com
                  • John G. Lussmyer
                    ... Define bad and good . ... Remember, the monitor numbers go from 0 to 9. The monitor under the Hood should be monitoring 7 batteries (0-6 on it s
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 29, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      JAMES A DUFFIE wrote:
                      > I have spent the time getting the sparrow back going. Someone suggested taking all power of the DC/DC converter and that worked. I have been running wires from the batteries up front to a terminal strip int he back using 12 guage fused wires. I tried to measure the voltage across the tbig red button while it was in and got a bad reading. When the button was pulled out, I got a good reading.

                      Define "bad" and "good".

                      > I charged the battteries monitoring the voltage in with the Zivian and checked each bzttery. They charged and the charger shut off without causing any hissing. The monitor did read some H readings. The voltages did hit 16 volts on some batteries at 2.1 amps.
                      >
                      > After the charger shut off, the voltages were in the 13 volt range.
                      >
                      > The car was used for one 10 mile trip and sat for two days. The voltages were inthe mid 12 range.
                      >
                      > I have charged again watching the voltages and after two hours, all the voltages except one were in the low 16 volt range. Amps were again 2.2. This time I did hear hissing in the front compartment. Both monitors indicated H during the last hour of the charge. The one in the cabin showed 1,3,4,5,6. The one in the front indicated 1,2,4,5,6,7. How do these numbers relate to the battery numbers 1 - 13?
                      >

                      Remember, the monitor numbers go from 0 to 9.
                      The monitor under the Hood should be monitoring 7 batteries (0-6 on it's
                      display). This corresponds to batteries 1-7 on the Sparrow pack layout
                      in the monitor installation guide.
                      The monitor under the Seat should be monitoring 6 batteries (0-5 on it's
                      display). This corresponds to batteries 8-13 on the pack layout in the
                      guide.

                      >
                      > Here is the charging history for the last charge. 9/ 23/09
                      >
                      >

                      Batteries 1 and 8 look suspicious. They are NOT going to the high
                      voltage like the others during the finish charge.
                      This means that they are either not fully charged (unbalanced pack) or
                      possibly something is wrong with them.

                      One of the basic problems with Sparrows is that the Zivan chargers have
                      a tendency to cook the batteries, especially if the pack isn't balanced
                      (or you have a bad battery).
                      By having 2 batteries not reaching acceptance voltage, the other
                      batteries get higher voltages applied to them.


                      --
                      --
                      John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@...
                      Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com
                    • bisoner1
                      ... I recently had my Vicor die on my NMG. With Rick s help at Myers, I was able to get a used replacement, but I am curious about the reset procedure that
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 1 5:06 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, JAMES A DUFFIE <duffie_j@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I Took your advice and this is what happened.
                        > �
                        > The BRB was OFF since yesterday.� I did not disconnect anything and I measured the pack side and got� about 15 volts.� 0 Volts on the� output side.
                        > �
                        > I disconnected everything and let it sit about 2 1/2 hours.
                        > �
                        > When I put back on the pack side wires, The top left� had a little spark when I put the lead on the converter.� I measured the pack with the BRB off and I had 15 volts.� This was measured at the converter and at the two posts between battery 1 and 13.
                        > �
                        > When I pulled out the BRB, the meter on the dah and everything came back to life.
                        > �
                        > The voltage at the converter was the 162 volts I have at the pack setting and the output side was showing the 12 volt output it should have.
                        > �
                        > I tried the key and everything is back to normal.
                        > �
                        > I guess this was like the old computer reboot.��
                        > �
                        > I don't know if this will be an issue when I am out and around unless I push in the BRB.�
                        > �
                        > I know the 162 volts is a partial discharge, but I am a bit leery still about charging since when I try, the�Zvian seems to go farther than it should and I start to get the hissing.�
                        > �
                        > Would like to make another trip to the plant� 10 mile round trip at less than 45 mph tomorrow, but it is suposed to rain and I would just as soon not try a reany day run just yet.
                        > �
                        > Thank you for your feed back and help.
                        >
                        > �
                        > My converter seems to be a slightly different make.
                        > �
                        > C Technologies, Santa Barbra Prototype DC-DC Controller CS1 DC� Serial Number 0014.� Input 100-200 VDC� Output 12 DC� 156 V DC is engraved in the aluminum.� I did a short Google Search and did not find them.
                        >
                        > --- On Mon, 9/14/09, stonewerk2000 <dansto@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: stonewerk2000 <dansto@...>
                        > Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Newer Owner and New Batteries
                        > To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:26 AM
                        >
                        >
                        > �
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Ron at Black Sheep has the Vicor for $465:
                        >
                        > http://www.black- sheep.us/
                        >
                        > But before you replace it, try the following:
                        > 1. Push the BRB to turn off the input to the Vicor.
                        > 2. Disconnect *all* the wires to the Vicor (Left and Right side), making sure you record the connections before you remove them.
                        > 3. Let the module rest for a bit (let's say a half hour).
                        > 4. Reconnect the module.
                        > 5. Pull the BRB (turn on the HV).
                        > 6. Retake the measurements you made on the DC-DC.
                        > 7. Post the results.
                        >
                        > The DC-DC input (HV) is on the lest (top and bottom), the output terminals (12V) are on the right (top and bottom).
                        >
                        > By the way, where are you located?
                        >
                        > Good Luck,
                        > Danny

                        I recently had my Vicor die on my NMG. With Rick's help at Myers, I was able to get a used replacement, but I am curious about the "reset" procedure that seemed to work for you.

                        Have there been any further problems? I would just worry that the part was failing. It can be quite an inconvenience when they die!

                        Just curious if that is all it took and if you have been able to get some more miles on it to verify that all is well.
                      • stonewerk2000
                        Hi, There s no magic to the reset. I meant to post a followup explanation but forgot to... The short answer is that removing the input power and disconnecting
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 1 7:06 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi,

                          There's no magic to the reset. I meant to post a followup explanation but forgot to...

                          The short answer is that removing the input power and disconnecting the load resets the DC-DC converter by design intent. This is a common mechanism in good DC-DC converter modules.

                          The long answer: The Vicor is a very high quality DC-DC converter that has a number of circuit protection design elements, including thermal shutdown. According to the datasheet (Sept. 99 pg. 2 of 4, "Thermal Characteristics") the VI-M51-EQ drivers shut down at a temperature between 90-105 deg C (this is the temperature of the driver transistors, not the module case) and to restart, cool the module and recycle power.

                          For further reference, at the Sparrow Wiki:

                          http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/DC-DCConverter

                          You'll find a link to the following page on the Vicor Website:

                          http://www.vicorpower.com/products/configurable/megamod/?expresscode=megamod

                          If you select "Technical Resources" and then select, Design Guides/Manuals," you'll see a link for a document labeled, "VI-200, VI-J00 Design Guide and Applications Manual." This is a big (99 pages) engineering document for system designers on how to apply and use the DC-DC converters. I'll upload it to the files section of this group.

                          This document is not directly referenced in the Wiki, but provides good information on how to properly use the DC-DC converter in various applications. The section on thermal management is particularly useful. It would have been nice if Corbin had applied this information, and hopefully Myers has... (Don't get me wrong, as a professional engineer who has worked several decades in various manufacturing environments I think Corbin did a fantastic job of getting the Sparrow in production and to market. Their biggest mistake was under-pricing it. But I digress...)

                          Black sheep provides a DC-DC heatsink upgrade kit for the Vicor. I recommend any Sparrow that doesn't have a properly heat sinked DC-DC converter (Vicor or not) be upgraded.

                          The Vicor DC-DC converter is quite robust when properly applied. I wonder how many units that are replaced as defective truly are? Hmm, maybe I should look into repair? I design switchers...

                          Anyway, I hope this answers your question.

                          Danny

                          <Stuff Deleted>

                          > I recently had my Vicor die on my NMG. With Rick's help at Myers, I was able to get a used replacement, but I am curious about the "reset" procedure that seemed to work for you.
                          >
                          > Have there been any further problems? I would just worry that the part was failing. It can be quite an inconvenience when they die!
                          >
                          > Just curious if that is all it took and if you have been able to get some more miles on it to verify that all is well.
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.