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Re: [sparrow_ev] LIFEPO4 Battery Group Buy Direct From China

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  • Davide Andrea
    ... In a Sparrow? If so, which cell and how did you arrange them? D de
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 27, 2009
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      John Brecher wrote:
      > The cells I've been using for over a year now are China-Hipower.

      In a Sparrow?
      If so, which cell and how did you arrange them?
      D'de
    • jakeoshins
      Davide, Did you contact Rich and did he tell you that his BMS isn t commercially available? His web site is terrible, and he sells a lot of things that aren t
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 27, 2009
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        Davide,

        Did you contact Rich and did he tell you that his BMS isn't commercially available? His web site is terrible, and he sells a lot of things that aren't listed there.

        If you're in Washington, I'd recommend his work, simply because his shop did a really nice job on the physical installation. I've also had really good results with the BMS, so far. (I have to note, of course, that I wrote the code in the microcontrollers in that BMS, so I'm not objective.)

        My pack is staying in balance really nicely. And when I've left town or otherwise not driven the Sparrow for a month, the cells have drifted a bit. The BMS pulls them back into tight synch within a couple of charge cycles.

        I'm consistently able to pull about 8kWh out of a nomially 11kWh pack before I see any real sagging. I have installed a LED on my visor that lights whenever any cell drops below 2.7V. I don't see it light in normal driving until I've gone 45 miles or more. Then, if I use a light foot, I've got another ten miles or so before hills present too much of a challenge.

        Manzanita Micro has the plans and templates for all the work that they did on my Sparrow and they'd be able to duplicate it relatively easily (if not relatively cheaply.)

        - Jake Oshins
        #220

        --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, Davide Andrea <web@...> wrote:
        >
        > smlloyds wrote:
        > > Anyone else receive this email?
        >
        > Organizing a group buy is a big headache. I suggest you buy them in the
        > US, from importers: you'll be assured that they've been retested here in
        > the US,and you have someone to call in case of problems.
        >
        > This is a list of available LiFePO4 cells, with some dealers.
        > http://liionbms.com/php/cells.php
        >
        > If you are specifically interested in HiPower cells, I suggest Brian
        > Hall of Thunderstruck Motors in Sebastapol CA:
        > http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/index.htm
        >
        > Many people resell Thundersky cells. Two I know of are Richard Hatfield
        > (http://alliancerenewableenergy.com/products.html) in the Bay area, or
        > Dave Kois (http://www.evcomponents.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=34) in
        > Washington State.
        >
        > > Those of you with experience in LIFEP04
        > > batteries, what type/model of batteries and how many do you recommend as
        > > total replacement for the 13 Optima batteries in the Sparrow?
        >
        >
        > We have all found that the only prismatic LiFEPO4 cells that fit in a
        > Sparrow (standing upright) are the Thundersky 40 AH cells, used in
        > "buddy pairs" to get 80 AH. For example, see Jake Oshins' work here:
        > http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ManzanitaMicroTS-LFPBattery
        >
        > Jake fit 88 cells in the Sparrow, in a 44S2P arrangement:
        > http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ManzanitaMicroTS-LFPBattery#toc10
        > It looks like I will be able to fit 100 cells, in a 50S2P arrangement:
        > http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ElithionThundersky#toc8
        > I can't figure out how many cells John Lussmyer fit:
        > http://www.casadelgato.com/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=23
        >
        > Electrically, 50 cells in series is pretty much the max for the Sparrow.
        >
        > You MUST also have a Battery Management System to go along with the
        > cells. They are not cheap!
        > Here is a list of commercially available Li-Ion BMSs:
        > http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php
        > Though many others have gone the DIY route. Jake uses a BMS from Rich
        > Rudmann of Manzanita Micro, a BMS that is not offered commercially at
        > this point. Some cell manufacturers offer their BMS, or at least claim
        > to do so, though very few are any good (Valence is the major exception:
        > they have a good BMS). Watch out: Chinese BMSs haven't yet achieved
        > maturity for large battery packs (they work fine for e-bikes, but not
        > for EVs).
        >
        > D'de
        >
      • John Brecher
        Nope, remember, that s in the car I can t mention on the Sparrow group(Fiero). I used the 100AH cells. I wish I could find a setup for the Sparrow as my
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 27, 2009
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          Nope, remember, that's in the car I can't mention on the Sparrow group(Fiero). I used the 100AH cells. I wish I could find a setup for the Sparrow as my original Sparrow is getting near replacement time. My emails were with the Chinese to get lifep04's to put in Sparrow 263 which had dead batteries when I bought it.I just decided one "test" vehicle at a time.
          Whatever you folks try in lithiums just remember the BMS is MANDITORY. I saw a friend destroy 38 $249 cells in less than 12 charges because no one told him about BMS! 


          John L. Brecher
          Garland, Tx

          --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Davide Andrea <web@...> wrote:


          From: Davide Andrea <web@...>
          Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] LIFEPO4 Battery Group Buy Direct From China
          To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 12:09 PM


           



          John Brecher wrote:
          > The cells I've been using for over a year now are China-Hipower.

          In a Sparrow?
          If so, which cell and how did you arrange them?
          D'de
















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richard Edmonston
          Richard RCEV Products, LLC ... From: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Davide Andrea Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 27, 2009
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            Richard
            RCEV Products, LLC
            -----Original Message-----
            From: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Davide Andrea
            Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:21 AM
            To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] LIFEPO4 Battery Group Buy Direct From China


            smlloyds wrote:
            > Anyone else receive this email?

            Organizing a group buy is a big headache. I suggest you buy them in the
            US, from importers: you'll be assured that they've been retested here in

            the US,and you have someone to call in case of problems.

            This is a list of available LiFePO4 cells, with some dealers.
            http://liionbms. <http://liionbms.com/php/cells.php> com/php/cells.php

            If you are specifically interested in HiPower cells, I suggest Brian
            Hall of Thunderstruck Motors in Sebastapol CA:
            http://www.thunders <http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/index.htm>
            truck-ev.com/index.htm

            Many people resell Thundersky cells. Two I know of are Richard Hatfield
            (http://alliancerene <http://alliancerenewableenergy.com/products.html>
            wableenergy.com/products.html) in the Bay area, or
            Dave Kois (http://www.evcompon
            <http://www.evcomponents.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=34>
            ents.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=34) in
            Washington State.

            > Those of you with experience in LIFEP04
            > batteries, what type/model of batteries and how many do you recommend
            as
            > total replacement for the 13 Optima batteries in the Sparrow?

            We have all found that the only prismatic LiFEPO4 cells that fit in a
            Sparrow (standing upright) are the Thundersky 40 AH cells, used in
            "buddy pairs" to get 80 AH. For example, see Jake Oshins' work here:
            http://enviromotors
            <http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ManzanitaMicroTS-LFPBatt
            ery> .com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ManzanitaMicroTS-LFPBattery

            Jake fit 88 cells in the Sparrow, in a 44S2P arrangement:
            http://enviromotors
            <http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ManzanitaMicroTS-LFPBatt
            ery#toc10> .com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ManzanitaMicroTS-LFPBattery#toc10
            It looks like I will be able to fit 100 cells, in a 50S2P arrangement:
            http://enviromotors
            <http://enviromotors.com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ElithionThundersky#toc8>
            .com/wiki/index.php/Sparrow/ElithionThundersky#toc8
            I can't figure out how many cells John Lussmyer fit:
            http://www.casadelg
            <http://www.casadelgato.com/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=23>
            ato.com/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=23

            Electrically, 50 cells in series is pretty much the max for the Sparrow.

            You MUST also have a Battery Management System to go along with the
            cells. They are not cheap!
            Here is a list of commercially available Li-Ion BMSs:
            http://liionbms. <http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php>
            com/php/bms_options.php
            Though many others have gone the DIY route. Jake uses a BMS from Rich
            Rudmann of Manzanita Micro, a BMS that is not offered commercially at
            this point. Some cell manufacturers offer their BMS, or at least claim
            to do so, though very few are any good (Valence is the major exception:
            they have a good BMS). Watch out: Chinese BMSs haven't yet achieved
            maturity for large battery packs (they work fine for e-bikes, but not
            for EVs).

            D'de



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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