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RE: [sparrow_ev] Re: New Cord

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  • Jamie Marshall (GAMES)
    I don t think that s right. There is in fact an implementation error in many sparrows as Corbin shipped, where they tied one end of the ac line sense relay to
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 1, 2004
      I don't think that's right.



      There is in fact an implementation error in many sparrows as Corbin
      shipped, where they tied one end of the ac line sense relay to the
      ground (green) wire on the cord, instead of to the neutral/return
      (white) wire. When you plug the sparrow in, a small amount of current
      flows through the relays coil, and trips the GFI.



      Theoretically, this was because they were going to ship with a 220/120
      volt charger, and the voltage sense relay is only rated for 120 volts,
      so by tying to the ground wire, they would get 120volt even if the car
      was plugged in to a 220 volt outlet. Then they just had to provide two
      different cords for charging from the two different outlets.



      But that didn't happen, and they didn't change the design. So to fix
      it, you just have to remove the "gas" socket, and you'll find that there
      are two wires connected to the "ground" part of the socket. (usually
      the screw is painted green). One of these wires is green, and should be
      there. The other is not green, and should not be there. You remove
      that wire and switch it to the same socket that has the white wire
      coming out. The third connection should also have two wires, one of
      which is black.



      I did this while my sparrow still had an un-isolated pack, and it worked
      great. Using a 2 prong plug in a GFI outlet removes the GFI protection.
      It also makes your sparrow not know it's plugged in (since the relay is
      connected to the ground, and the adapter leaves the ground unconnected).
      Battery box vents won't come on, and you can start the car without
      unplugging. Also, you run the risk of getting killed plugging in the
      sparrow in the rain, or when it's just wet. Water is the reason that
      outdoor outlets have GFI. Saving your life is a good thing.



      -Jamie



      ________________________________

      From: khbkhb [mailto:khbkhb1@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:07 PM
      To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: New Cord



      --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "w_satterfield" <uuade@m...> wrote:
      >
      > I always carry a 2 prong converter. Most outdoor outlets
      > are on a GFI which will pop if you plug in a Sparrow.
      >
      Until you repair the factory defect (design flaw, not implementation
      error). Often called "defanging". The details vary by controller type.
      See the archives for discussion of the details.

      A properly defanged Sparrow should not trip a GFCI. The GFCI tripping
      is a clue to a serious safety misfeature.





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    • Davide Andrea
      ... Sorry, no, 2 different issues. Defanging (a term coined by Clare Bell), is done by isolating of the battery pack from the frame of the vehicle. It involves
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 1, 2004
        --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "khbkhb" <khbkhb1@f...> wrote:
        > A properly defanged Sparrow should not trip a GFCI.

        Sorry, no, 2 different issues.
        Defanging (a term coined by Clare Bell), is done by isolating of the
        battery pack from the frame of the vehicle. It involves the KiloVac
        controller.
        Fixing GFI tripping is done by isolating the AC line from the Earth
        Ground (110 V) or the neutral (220 V). It involves the line-sense-
        relay behind the charging inlet, on top of the radio (all Sparrows).
        Davide
      • w_satterfield
        ... Absolutely! I try the 3 prong plug first and if that pops the GFI I fall back to the 2 prong plug. The current in my ground wire is low enough that it
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 5, 2004
          --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)"
          <jamiemar@m...> wrote:
          > Using a 2 prong plug in a GFI outlet removes the GFI protection.
          > ... Saving your life is a good thing.

          Absolutely! I try the 3 prong plug first and if that pops the GFI I
          fall back to the 2 prong plug. The current in my ground wire is low
          enough that it does not trip all GFI's (maybe one of the GFIs at work
          is faulty).

          I could put a sticker on the door reading:
          Not UL listed. Touch at your own risk.

          Wade
        • Brian Phillips
          Why??? It took me all of 20 minutes to make the GFI problem go away forever. It has nothing to do with de-zapping. It s just involves moving two wires in the
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 5, 2004
            Why??? It took me all of 20 minutes to make the GFI problem go away
            forever. It has nothing to do with de-zapping. It's just involves
            moving two wires in the "gas tank" plug. Now I never trip GFI's and
            still use a three-prong plug.

            Brian Phillips
            VIN #206

            --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "w_satterfield" <uuade@m...> wrote:
            > I could put a sticker on the door reading:
            > Not UL listed. Touch at your own risk.
            >
            > Wade
          • w_satterfield
            ... This sounds good. Where do I find more detail? Wade
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
              --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Phillips" <btphillips@c...>
              wrote:
              > Why??? It took me all of 20 minutes to make the GFI problem go away
              > forever. It has nothing to do with de-zapping. It's just involves
              > moving two wires in the "gas tank" plug. Now I never trip GFI's and
              > still use a three-prong plug.


              This sounds good. Where do I find more detail?

              Wade
            • Brian Phillips
              Wade, Check out message #3931 on this board. I used the info in that post to do the fix. The only thing I d add is, use new silicone glue to re- seal the power
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
                Wade,

                Check out message #3931 on this board. I used the info in that post
                to do the fix. The only thing I'd add is, use new silicone glue to re-
                seal the power socket to prevent rain from getting in.

                Brian Phillips
                VIN #206

                --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "w_satterfield" <uuade@m...> wrote:
                > --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Phillips"
                <btphillips@c...>
                > wrote:
                > > Why??? It took me all of 20 minutes to make the GFI problem go
                away
                > > forever. It has nothing to do with de-zapping. It's just involves
                > > moving two wires in the "gas tank" plug. Now I never trip GFI's
                and
                > > still use a three-prong plug.
                >
                >
                > This sounds good. Where do I find more detail?
                >
                > Wade
              • sharmon981
                Thanks for the info and the material numbers to create a new cord, but I have a four prong locking plug into the gas cap . Does anyone have a part number for
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 27, 2004
                  Thanks for the info and the material numbers to create a new cord,
                  but I have a four prong locking plug into the "gas cap". Does anyone
                  have a part number for this?

                  And a side note, the Home Depot I went to said they are no longer
                  carring Leviton materials. I got a different brand (Pass and Seymour
                  PN#361277) that looked like the same plug, but I couldn't get it to
                  plug into my "gas cap". It didn't seem to have enough depth.

                  Thanks for any help/advise!

                  Sandy and EVita
                  >
                  > Here are the parts:
                  > One Three Prong plug Leviton(No.5266-CA $12)
                  > One Three Blade Locking Plug Leviton (No.2613 $34.75)
                  > 6Ft(or more) Home Depot #155-916 or P-7k-123033
                • Stephen Taylor
                  It is a NEMA L14-30. You probably have the right one. The first few times you sometimes have to push harder to get it all the way in. Stephen Taylor #262
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 27, 2004
                    It is a NEMA L14-30. You probably have the right one. The first few times you sometimes have to push harder to get it all the way in.

                    Stephen Taylor
                    #262


                    sharmon981 <sharmon@...> wrote:Thanks for the info and the material numbers to create a new cord,
                    but I have a four prong locking plug into the "gas cap". Does anyone
                    have a part number for this?

                    And a side note, the Home Depot I went to said they are no longer
                    carring Leviton materials. I got a different brand (Pass and Seymour
                    PN#361277) that looked like the same plug, but I couldn't get it to
                    plug into my "gas cap". It didn't seem to have enough depth.

                    Thanks for any help/advise!

                    Sandy and EVita
                    >
                    > Here are the parts:
                    > One Three Prong plug Leviton(No.5266-CA $12)
                    > One Three Blade Locking Plug Leviton (No.2613 $34.75)
                    > 6Ft(or more) Home Depot #155-916 or P-7k-123033


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                  • Harmon, Sandra [NEUUS]
                    Thanks Stephen, that is exactly what I have. I was a little hesitant to push much harder then I was, but I will do that when I get home. Thanks again! ...
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 27, 2004
                      Thanks Stephen, that is exactly what I have. I was a little hesitant to
                      push much harder then I was, but I will do that when I get home.

                      Thanks again!



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Stephen Taylor [mailto:sparrow262@...]
                      Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 1:53 PM
                      To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] Re: New Cord


                      It is a NEMA L14-30. You probably have the right one. The first few times
                      you sometimes have to push harder to get it all the way in.

                      Stephen Taylor
                      #262


                      sharmon981 <sharmon@...> wrote:Thanks for the info and the
                      material numbers to create a new cord,
                      but I have a four prong locking plug into the "gas cap". Does anyone
                      have a part number for this?

                      And a side note, the Home Depot I went to said they are no longer
                      carring Leviton materials. I got a different brand (Pass and Seymour
                      PN#361277) that looked like the same plug, but I couldn't get it to
                      plug into my "gas cap". It didn't seem to have enough depth.

                      Thanks for any help/advise!

                      Sandy and EVita
                      >
                      > Here are the parts:
                      > One Three Prong plug Leviton(No.5266-CA $12)
                      > One Three Blade Locking Plug Leviton (No.2613 $34.75)
                      > 6Ft(or more) Home Depot #155-916 or P-7k-123033


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