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Re: [sparetimegizmos] Re: Projects on the horizon?

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  • Eric Smith
    ... No, only some of the PDP-11 OSes. Mentec got some of the best-known ones, including RT-11, RSX-11/M and M+, and RSTS/E. But not DSM-11, IAS, POS, or some
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 4, 2011
      Seth Morabito wrote:
      > DEC sold PDP-11 support to Mentec a long time ago, including the
      > rights to all the PDP-11 DEC OS's.

      No, only some of the PDP-11 OSes. Mentec got some of the best-known
      ones, including RT-11, RSX-11/M and M+, and RSTS/E. But not DSM-11,
      IAS, POS, or some (more) obsolete ones like DOS-11 and RSX-11/D.
    • Seth Morabito
      ... I wasn t aware of that, thanks for the clarification! Did rights to those OS s stay with DEC- Compaq- HP, then? -Seth
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 4, 2011
        * On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 01:04:27PM -0800, Eric Smith <eric@...> wrote:
        > Seth Morabito wrote:
        > > DEC sold PDP-11 support to Mentec a long time ago, including the
        > > rights to all the PDP-11 DEC OS's.
        >
        > No, only some of the PDP-11 OSes. Mentec got some of the best-known
        > ones, including RT-11, RSX-11/M and M+, and RSTS/E. But not DSM-11,
        > IAS, POS, or some (more) obsolete ones like DOS-11 and RSX-11/D.

        I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the clarification!

        Did rights to those OS's stay with DEC->Compaq->HP, then?

        -Seth
      • Eric Smith
        ... POS is reportedly in the public domain. DOS-11 rights probably belong to HP. IAS and DSM-11 rights were sold to other parties. RSX-11/D rights might be
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 4, 2011
          Seth Morabito wrote:
          > Did rights to those OS's stay with DEC->Compaq->HP, then?

          POS is reportedly in the public domain.
          DOS-11 rights probably belong to HP.
          IAS and DSM-11 rights were sold to other parties.
          RSX-11/D rights might be with HP, or might have been included in the IAS
          transfer.
        • Yetanotherwinston Smith
          ________________________________ From: Seth Morabito To: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 4:08:47 PM Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 10, 2011
            ________________________________
            From: Seth Morabito <sethm@...>
            To: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 4:08:47 PM
            Subject: Re: [sparetimegizmos] Re: Projects on the horizon?

            * On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 01:04:27PM -0800, Eric Smith <eric@...>
            wrote:
            > Seth Morabito wrote:
            > > DEC sold PDP-11 support to Mentec a long time ago, including the
            > > rights to all the PDP-11 DEC OS's.
            >
            > No, only some of the PDP-11 OSes. Mentec got some of the best-known
            > ones, including RT-11, RSX-11/M and M+, and RSTS/E. But not DSM-11,
            > IAS, POS, or some (more) obsolete ones like DOS-11 and RSX-11/D.

            I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the clarification!

            Did rights to those OS's stay with DEC->Compaq->HP, then?

            -Seth

            One More Time:

            Before the Compaq deal, DEC issued a blanket hobbyist license for
            non-commercial use of ALL its software on its equipment (and, <AFAIK> emulators)

            YOU have the right to run any DEC software on any DEC or DEC-licensed
            product, which includes the 6120. You have the right to run any DEC
            PDP-1/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/15/20/VAXen and Alphas + other products program on
            DEC or DEC-approved hardware, like the Harris chip PDP-8. DEC never took action
            against emulators, hard or soft, built by academics or hobbyists, effectively
            handing *us* the right to do anything non-commercial with published DEC
            software. DECUS software has and remains open source.

            This was your brain on DEC <ZOOM> thisisyourbrainCompaqted.

            The right to perform software or hardware service on commercial
            installations matters not.

            Winston





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eric Smith
            ... Having been involved in this area for awhile, I am fairly certain that you are incorrect. Another hobbyist and I pursuaded someone at DEC to arrange for a
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 11, 2011
              Winston wrote:
              > Before the Compaq deal, DEC issued a blanket hobbyist license for
              > non-commercial use of ALL its software on its equipment (and, <AFAIK>
              > emulators)

              Having been involved in this area for awhile, I am fairly certain that
              you are incorrect.

              Another hobbyist and I pursuaded someone at DEC to arrange for a
              hobbyist license for 36-bit (PDP-10) software.

              There is also a hobbyist license for VMS.

              There is yet another hobbyist license which allows running some (but not
              all) old DEC software on "emulators owned by DEC", of which there are
              few or none. The text of this license is included in the SIMH distribution.

              If you've found a "blanket" hobbyiest license as you describe, please
              provide some evidence to back up this claim. In particular, there
              should exist an explicit text of a license grant, and from that text we
              should be able to tell whether it covers actual DEC hardware, emulators,
              or both.

              > DEC never took action against emulators, hard or soft, built by academics
              > or hobbyists, effectively handing *us* the right to do anything
              > non-commercial with published DEC software.

              It may be true that DEC never took any action against emulators, but
              that does not in and of itself constitute a license nor confer any right
              to use the software.

              > DECUS software has and remains open source.

              That is true.

              Eric
            • Robert Armstrong
              ... As far as OS/8 is concerned, DEC actually released a version of it (OS/278 for the VT278/PC278), including source code, to DECUS back when DEC was still in
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 11, 2011
                >> DECUS software has and remains open source.
                >
                >That is true.

                As far as OS/8 is concerned, DEC actually released a version of it (OS/278 for the VT278/PC278), including source code, to DECUS back when DEC was still in business. I don't know what kind of license DECUS applied to its software but I would assume that makes that version of OS/278 public domain. Actually I can't remember any DECUS software, at least for family-of-8, that came with any kind of license statement. Life was simpler back then.

                Also, wasn't P/OS for the Pro released to DECUS too? That would make some version of RSX available, albeit a pretty crippled one. I don't think DEC released the source code in that case, though.

                Bob
              • Clark Family
                Two guys have built a 32 bit core memory board and connected it to an Arduino and documented their work: http://www.corememoryshield.com/report.html Very
                Message 7 of 25 , May 13, 2011
                  Two guys have built a 32 bit core memory board and connected it to an
                  Arduino and documented their work:

                  http://www.corememoryshield.com/report.html

                  Very nicely done!
                  -Chris
                • Brian Lloyd
                  ... It would be fun to come up with modern drive electronics for old core plane arrays. I bet there are still some out there. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 13, 2011
                    On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Clark Family <cclark@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Two guys have built a 32 bit core memory board and connected it to an
                    > Arduino and documented their work:
                    >
                    > http://www.corememoryshield.com/report.html
                    >
                    > Very nicely done!
                    >

                    It would be fun to come up with modern drive electronics for old core plane
                    arrays. I bet there are still some out there.


                    --
                    Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                    3191 Western Dr.
                    Cameron Park, CA 95682
                    brian@...
                    +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
                    +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
                    (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Al Kossow
                    ... I d rather have the rest of the parts kit I paid for and never received.
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 13, 2011
                      On 5/13/11 8:16 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:

                      > It would be fun to come up with modern drive electronics for old core plane
                      > arrays.

                      I'd rather have the 'rest of the parts' kit I paid for and never received.
                    • Dave McGuire
                      ... I m sure Rob is working on it. And I am working on the assembly, bit by bit. (no pun intended!) I m doing this in parallel with finding a new place to live
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 13, 2011
                        On 5/13/11 11:23 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
                        >> It would be fun to come up with modern drive electronics for old core plane
                        >> arrays.
                        >
                        > I'd rather have the 'rest of the parts' kit I paid for and never received.

                        I'm sure Rob is working on it.

                        And I am working on the assembly, bit by bit. (no pun intended!) I'm
                        doing this in parallel with finding a new place to live and planning a
                        very large (many trucks...40+ six-foot racks) move. I am taking a break
                        this weekend to attend VCF-East. I hope to see some of you there.

                        As for core memory...it's everywhere. As for modern drive
                        electronics, it's not exactly modern, but there was a very good article
                        in BYTE magazine in the 1970s about interfacing to random surplus core
                        planes. I have it as a PDF if anyone is interested.

                        -Dave

                        --
                        Dave McGuire
                        Port Charlotte, FL
                      • randyeubanks
                        It has been over a month since the (latest) call for our addresses. This is getting really sad considering the attitude that has been shown since almost day
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 13, 2011
                          It has been over a month since the (latest) call for our addresses. This is getting really sad considering the attitude that has been shown since almost day one.

                          I still don't have my "rest of the parts".
                          I still don't have the "Extra LEDs".
                          I still don't have the "IOB"
                          I still live at the same address I have for almost 18 years.

                          I DO have everything I ever ordered from Bob Armstrong and would love to see what else he is cooking up.

                          But back on topic, I would love to get the PDF of the Byte article! It sounds like an interesting read and possible project.

                          Thanks, Randy

                          (Once Again, a big THANK YOU to Bob Armstrong for bringing us your projects. We truly appreciate your work.)

                          --- In sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On 5/13/11 11:23 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
                          > >> It would be fun to come up with modern drive electronics for old core plane
                          > >> arrays.
                          > >
                          > > I'd rather have the 'rest of the parts' kit I paid for and never received.
                          >
                          > I'm sure Rob is working on it.
                          >
                          > And I am working on the assembly, bit by bit. (no pun intended!) I'm
                          > doing this in parallel with finding a new place to live and planning a
                          > very large (many trucks...40+ six-foot racks) move. I am taking a break
                          > this weekend to attend VCF-East. I hope to see some of you there.
                          >
                          > As for core memory...it's everywhere. As for modern drive
                          > electronics, it's not exactly modern, but there was a very good article
                          > in BYTE magazine in the 1970s about interfacing to random surplus core
                          > planes. I have it as a PDF if anyone is interested.
                          >
                          > -Dave
                          >
                          > --
                          > Dave McGuire
                          > Port Charlotte, FL
                          >
                        • Bob Armstrong
                          ... getting really sad considering the attitude that has been shown since almost day one. Look guys - we ve been down this road before; don t start it again.
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 13, 2011
                            >It has been over a month since the (latest) call for our addresses. This is
                            getting really sad considering the attitude that has been shown since almost
                            day one.

                            Look guys - we've been down this road before; don't start it again.

                            Bob Armstrong







                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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