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SIMH

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  • ae5ew
    I have a recent copy of SIMH/PDP8 though I have not compiled it. My understanding is that it does not provide a front panel. I didn t see one. Is this correct?
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
      I have a recent copy of SIMH/PDP8 though I have not compiled it. My understanding is that it does not provide a front panel. I didn't see one. Is this correct?
      Charles AE5EW
    • Brian Lloyd
      ... I was playing with it last night and it appears to be a text-only (stdout) program. You can examine and change registers and memory, set breakpoints,
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
        On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:31 AM, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > I have a recent copy of SIMH/PDP8 though I have not compiled it. My
        > understanding is that it does not provide a front panel. I didn't see one.
        > Is this correct?
        >

        I was playing with it last night and it appears to be a text-only (stdout)
        program. You can examine and change registers and memory, set breakpoints,
        allocate devices, etc., all from the command prompt but you can't see das
        blinkenlites. So sad.

        I was considering using it for the kids to work on but I am not going to be
        able to do that until they get the hang of manually toggling in simple
        programs that they can single-step or run as they get the hang of what the
        computer does.

        --
        Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
        3191 Western Dr.
        Cameron Park, CA 95682
        brian@...
        +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
        +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
        (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gerhard Kreuzer
        Hi Brian, look at www.vandermark.ch nice GUI, you will like it and peripherals either (with graphical representation). With best regards Gerhard _____ Von:
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
          Hi Brian,

          look at www.vandermark.ch nice GUI, you will like it and peripherals either
          (with graphical representation).

          With best regards

          Gerhard

          _____

          Von: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Brian Lloyd
          Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Jänner 2011 21:33
          An: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
          Betreff: Re: [sparetimegizmos] SIMH




          On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:31 AM, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...
          <mailto:ae5ew.us%40gmail.com> > wrote:

          >
          >
          > I have a recent copy of SIMH/PDP8 though I have not compiled it. My
          > understanding is that it does not provide a front panel. I didn't see one.
          > Is this correct?
          >

          I was playing with it last night and it appears to be a text-only (stdout)
          program. You can examine and change registers and memory, set breakpoints,
          allocate devices, etc., all from the command prompt but you can't see das
          blinkenlites. So sad.

          I was considering using it for the kids to work on but I am not going to be
          able to do that until they get the hang of manually toggling in simple
          programs that they can single-step or run as they get the hang of what the
          computer does.

          --
          Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
          3191 Western Dr.
          Cameron Park, CA 95682
          brian@... <mailto:brian%40lloyd.com>
          +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
          +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
          (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerhard Kreuzer
          Hi Brian, sorry, this link will be closer to the target .... http://www.vandermark.ch/pdp8/index.php?n=PDP8.Emulator With best regards Gerhard _____ Von:
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
            Hi Brian,

            sorry, this link will be closer to the target ....

            http://www.vandermark.ch/pdp8/index.php?n=PDP8.Emulator

            With best regards

            Gerhard

            _____

            Von: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Brian Lloyd
            Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Jänner 2011 21:33
            An: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
            Betreff: Re: [sparetimegizmos] SIMH




            On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:31 AM, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...
            <mailto:ae5ew.us%40gmail.com> > wrote:

            >
            >
            > I have a recent copy of SIMH/PDP8 though I have not compiled it. My
            > understanding is that it does not provide a front panel. I didn't see one.
            > Is this correct?
            >

            I was playing with it last night and it appears to be a text-only (stdout)
            program. You can examine and change registers and memory, set breakpoints,
            allocate devices, etc., all from the command prompt but you can't see das
            blinkenlites. So sad.

            I was considering using it for the kids to work on but I am not going to be
            able to do that until they get the hang of manually toggling in simple
            programs that they can single-step or run as they get the hang of what the
            computer does.

            --
            Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
            3191 Western Dr.
            Cameron Park, CA 95682
            brian@... <mailto:brian%40lloyd.com>
            +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
            +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
            (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Brian Lloyd
            On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Gerhard Kreuzer ... Wonderful! This is certainly what I am looking for. Very nice. This would let each student have his/her own
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
              On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Gerhard Kreuzer
              <gerhard.kreuzer@...>wrote:

              >
              >
              > Hi Brian,
              >
              > look at www.vandermark.ch nice GUI, you will like it and peripherals
              > either
              > (with graphical representation).
              >

              Wonderful! This is certainly what I am looking for. Very nice. This would
              let each student have his/her own machine until we can get some built.

              Thank you very much for this pointer.

              --
              Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
              3191 Western Dr.
              Cameron Park, CA 95682
              brian@...
              +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
              +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
              (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerhard Kreuzer
              Hi Brian, no problem. Think you like it. You want to build something, can you send some specs? I guess, some board with switches, leds, a flash card (CF or SD)
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
                Hi Brian,

                no problem.
                Think you like it.
                You want to build something, can you send some specs?
                I guess, some board with switches, leds, a flash card (CF or SD) and some
                cheap FPGA will do all you want.

                With best regards

                Gerhard

                _____

                Von: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Brian Lloyd
                Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Jänner 2011 23:14
                An: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
                Betreff: Re: [sparetimegizmos] SIMH




                On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Gerhard Kreuzer
                <gerhard.kreuzer@... <mailto:gerhard.kreuzer%40liftoff.at> >wrote:

                >
                >
                > Hi Brian,
                >
                > look at www.vandermark.ch nice GUI, you will like it and peripherals
                > either
                > (with graphical representation).
                >

                Wonderful! This is certainly what I am looking for. Very nice. This would
                let each student have his/her own machine until we can get some built.

                Thank you very much for this pointer.

                --
                Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                3191 Western Dr.
                Cameron Park, CA 95682
                brian@... <mailto:brian%40lloyd.com>
                +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
                +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
                (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Brian Lloyd
                On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Gerhard Kreuzer ... Yes, very much. Only one thing I would change, and it would not be standard, would be to keep the PDP-8e
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
                  On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Gerhard Kreuzer
                  <gerhard.kreuzer@...>wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Brian,
                  >
                  > no problem.
                  > Think you like it.
                  >

                  Yes, very much. Only one thing I would change, and it would not be standard,
                  would be to keep the PDP-8e emulator but to change the front-panel to be a
                  PDP-8i front panel with all the registers displayed all the time so you
                  don't need to switch. Also you don't need to multiplex the switch-register
                  to enter the IF and DF extended-address fields. (It would be cool to be able
                  to switch between the virtual-8e and virtual-8i FPs.)

                  > You want to build something, can you send some specs?
                  > I guess, some board with switches, leds, a flash card (CF or SD) and some
                  > cheap FPGA will do all you want.
                  >

                  I am currently talking with Bob Armstrong about building some of his
                  lower-cost 6120-based machines. It has the full-function -8e front panel but
                  without the attempt to make it look so perfectly like a PDP-8e front panel.
                  It also doesn't have the disk interface or the expandability. But the price
                  is such that we could build several of them and kids could probably talk
                  parents into footing the bill if they wanted their own at home.

                  In the future I would definitely consider something different. Certainly an
                  FPGA would be good (if cheap enough) because then there would be no
                  dependence on the obsolete and almost-unavailable Harris 6120. If the FPGA
                  turned out to be too expensive it should be very easy to implement the -8e
                  using an ARM.

                  I would want the front panel to be PDP-8i style with all the registers
                  displayed concurrently and decoded. That way all changes as the result of
                  single-stepping are immediately apparent without having to switch the
                  display switch. I would like some mass-storage, probably using a CF or USB
                  flash drive. (Lots of small, cheap, USB flash drives kicking around these
                  days.) So ultimately I want an SBC6120/FP6120 combo that looks like an -8i
                  FP and isn't dependent on the HD6120.

                  Other than that, not much. :-)

                  Students should have the option of also loading and running the assembler,
                  FOCAL, BASIC, and ALGOL or FORTRAN. I will probably gloss over the FOCAL and
                  BASIC interpreters as I really want them thinking about what the CPU has to
                  do rather than how it is emulating something else. That implies ALGOL or
                  FORTRAN.

                  I might teach a bit of FORTRAN just so they can see how the FORTRAN
                  statements are translated into machine instructions by the compiler since
                  correspondence between FORTRAN statements and machine instructions is pretty
                  good. By that time they should understand how a computer works and can
                  graduate to working natively on our Macs to write programs.

                  Back to playing with the PDP-8e emulator.

                  --
                  Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                  3191 Western Dr.
                  Cameron Park, CA 95682
                  brian@...
                  +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
                  +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
                  (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Henk Gooijen
                  Hi Brian, it is not too difficult to connect some logic (via USB or RS-232) to the PC that runs SIMH. Then you only have to make a few mods to let SIM s pdp8
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 2, 2011
                    Hi Brian,

                    it is not too difficult to connect some logic (via USB or RS-232)
                    to the PC that runs SIMH. Then you only have to make a few mods
                    to let SIM's pdp8 emulation "talk" to the LEDs (or lights) and
                    scan the switch positions regularly.
                    I did it several times, look at www.pdp-11.nl and click in the
                    left side on the *folder* "my projects". Then you will see links
                    to several versions of a pdp8/e (in 6809, slow) and pdp8/i (FPGA)
                    and interfacing to a real PDP-11/70 front panel.

                    - Henk, PA8PDP -- now that's a call sign! :-)

                    From: Brian Lloyd
                    Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 1:24 AM
                    To: sparetimegizmos@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [sparetimegizmos] SIMH


                    In the future I would definitely consider something different. Certainly
                    an
                    FPGA would be good (if cheap enough) because then there would be no
                    dependence on the obsolete and almost-unavailable Harris 6120. If the FPGA
                    turned out to be too expensive it should be very easy to implement the -8e
                    using an ARM.

                    I would want the front panel to be PDP-8i style with all the registers
                    displayed concurrently and decoded. That way all changes as the result of
                    single-stepping are immediately apparent without having to switch the
                    display switch. I would like some mass-storage, probably using a CF or USB
                    flash drive. (Lots of small, cheap, USB flash drives kicking around these
                    days.) So ultimately I want an SBC6120/FP6120 combo that looks like an -8i
                    FP and isn't dependent on the HD6120.

                    Other than that, not much. :-)

                    --
                    Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                    3191 Western Dr.
                    Cameron Park, CA 95682
                    brian@...
                    +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
                    +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
                    (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Brian Lloyd
                    ... Oh certainly. It doesn t matter what hardware you use to implement the PDP-8 instruction set. Make the front panel and interface it via USB and then write
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 2, 2011
                      On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen@...>wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Brian,
                      >
                      > it is not too difficult to connect some logic (via USB or RS-232)
                      > to the PC that runs SIMH. Then you only have to make a few mods
                      > to let SIM's pdp8 emulation "talk" to the LEDs (or lights) and
                      > scan the switch positions regularly.
                      >
                      Oh certainly. It doesn't matter what hardware you use to implement the PDP-8
                      instruction set. Make the front panel and interface it via USB and then
                      write the emulation in Java so it is portable and can be used with any
                      computer.

                      OTOH, it is nice to go just a tiny bit further and let the entire unit stand
                      alone.

                      > I did it several times, look at www.pdp-11.nl and click in the
                      > left side on the *folder* "my projects". Then you will see links
                      > to several versions of a pdp8/e (in 6809, slow) and pdp8/i (FPGA)
                      > and interfacing to a real PDP-11/70 front panel.
                      >
                      There is something subtly wrong with a PDP-11/70 FP on a PDP-8. :-)

                      >
                      > - Henk, PA8PDP -- now that's a call sign! :-)
                      >
                      Very good! I am too infamous as WB6RQN that I don't think I can change now.
                      I don't do CW so I don't really care how long it takes to send.

                      My other computing project is radio-based. As a result of working with the
                      hams and government in Dominica on emergency communications this past summer
                      I decided to design and build a fully-automated HF messaging system.

                      --
                      Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                      3191 Western Dr.
                      Cameron Park, CA 95682
                      brian@...
                      +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
                      +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
                      (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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