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FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges

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  • Ian McPherson
    Dear all, As there have been quite a few comments on this group recently regarding Lambeth Council s new No Cycling signs between Westminster and Lambeth
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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      Dear all,

      As there have been quite a few comments on this group recently regarding Lambeth Council's new 'No Cycling' signs between Westminster and Lambeth Bridges, I thought this might be of interest.  I requested some information from Lambeth Council under the Freedom of Information Act seeking official clarification on this thorny issue.  I have now received a response from Nick Halpin, Customer Service Officer for Transport & Highways.

      It makes for interesting reading.  It confirms everything we knew it would.  The signs are indeed only advisory and the police can ask you to dismount, but can't make you. Those meaningless signs cost £2,600 of public money.  I'm glad I don't pay my council tax to Lambeth.

      I still think the hassle factor of being forced to engage in a conversation with a PCSO/police officer about why I won't automatically dismount on command (which is still potentially the case each time I choose to legally cycle along here) is outrageous. They are within their power to stop you and ask you to dismount.  That's what Lambeth have confirmed below. 

      I'd be extremely interested in hearing the thoughts of any interested parties in response to this matter.  I think they have gone about this in a most unappealing 'Big Brother' fashion and wonder how many cyclists would have the resolve to challenge/debate with a uniformed police officer.  Many cyclists, I suspect, would simply do as they are told. Job done for Lambeth Council! Ambiguous signs which really mean that cyclists are only advised to dismount drastically cut down legal cycling along this stretch as many cyclists are intimidated by the authorities into dismounting unnecessarily.  The situation is then reviewed by Lambeth Council and the statistics show their project has been a success.  Legal ban then to follow???

      Very Poor.

      Lambeth's responses to my questions are in light blue.

      Ian

      From: "Halpin,Nick" <NHalpin@...>
      Date: 28 January 2011 12:33:19 GMT

      Cc:
      "DESTranCPZ3," <DESTranCPZ3@...>
      Subject: Our ref Foi:139008, due date 28/01/2011: FOI Referral FOI Request reference: 139008 - New "No-Cycling" Signs on Thames Pathre:
       

      I have been directed to respond to your recent Foi enquiry.

       

      Please see our responses to your questions below, highlighted in blue bold.  If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.

       

      Should you have a complaint about the way your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act has been dealt with, please contact the Corporate Complaints Unit, Lambeth Town Hall , SW2 1RW or e-mail complaints@...

       

      If you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of your complaint you may contact the Information Commissioner, who can be reached at:

       

      Wycliffe House
      Water Lane
      Wilmslow
      Cheshire SK9 5AF

       

      Tel: 01625 545 700

      Fax: 01625 545 510

       

      Further information on the Freedom of Information Act can be found on the Information Commissioner's website www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk

       

      Kind Regards, Nick

       

      Nick Halpin

       

      Customer Services Officer
      Transport & Highways
      London Borough of Lambeth
      Lambeth Regeneration Housing and Environment

      Floor 3  Blue Star House
      234-244 Stockwell Road, London SW9 9SP
      Tel: 0207 926 0305
      Fax: 0207 926 2357

      email:nhalpin@...

      web:www.lambeth.gov.uk

       

      Making a difference


       

                 


      Sent: 30 December 2010 18:14
      To: FoI
      Subject: FOI REQUEST re: New No Cycling signs on Thames Path

       

      Dear Sir/Madam,

       

      I noticed that last month a series of  'No Cycling' signs were installed on rubbish bins along the section of path between Lambeth and Westminster Bridges.  I found this very disappointing as the alternative route on Lambeth Palace Road is very busy.

       

      I have noticed that a recent article on the London-SE1.co.uk blog states that Lambeth Council has stated these signs are actually only advising people not to cycle here, as the necessary Traffic Regulation Order would be required to make the ban legally enforceable.  The council has also stated that a full consultation would be required before such an order was sought.  My FOI request therefore pertains to the following questions:-

       

      1. Is it therefore correct that it is not yet an offence to cycle along this stretch of path?

       

      That is correct; the No Cycling signs that have been erected are advisory.

       

      2. Why were signs erected that do not indicate that it is only advisable not to cycle here?  Signs saying 'No Cycling' are surely somewhat misleading if what the council actually means is 'You are advised not to cycle, but can if you like as there is not yet any legal basis prohibiting this'.

       

      We were made aware of complaints about a small number of aggressive cyclists who were spoiling it for the majority of sensible cyclists and pedestrians who use this section of the South Bank. Lambeth Council have been working closely with key stakeholders in the South Bank area to try and tackle this aggressive cycling behaviour. A number of options were discussed with partners in relation to the wording of the signing and a decision was made to erect advisory ‘no cycling’ signs. However, we appreciate that it is not clear that these signs are advisory. The effects of the advisory signs are being monitored for a period of up to six months starting from the beginning of December 2010. Information on the number of cyclists still using the section will be collected from PSCO records. At the end of monitoring, it is expected that a review of the situation will occur. This experiment is just one approach that the borough will consider deploying.

       

      3. How much public money was spent erecting these signs? The cost of the signage and installation amounts to £2600.00

       

      4. As the relevant TRO has not yet been obtained by Lambeth Council and it is seemingly only advisable not to cycle here, can a PCSO or police officer request cyclists to dismount, even when there is not yet any legal basis prohibiting considerate cycling along this stretch of path?  A PCSO and police officer can request any member of the public to dismount their bicycle and advise them/ask them to dismount. However they are unable to force them to do so.

       

       

      5. Should a cyclist choose to disregard the advice of the PCSO to dismount, would they be committing any kind of offence or risk being fined/arrested? No they would not.

       

      I am a very strong advocate for considerate cycling along this world-class open space.  I am a law-abiding citizen and I am confused by these signs.  I would therefore be extremely grateful if you could provide clarity as to whether I now need to re-route my Sunday ride as I would not appreciate the embarrassment of being chastised by  a police employee.  My feeling is that the local authority should not put up signs saying 'no cycling' when it is not currently illegal to cycle along this stretch of path, nor to pay PCSOs to hassle people going about their business when it appears they have not committed any offence.

       


       

       

       

      Disclaimers apply for full details see http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer.htm

    • sheridan
      ... Oh, I d heard that there were freedom of information requests going through, but thought they was looking forward to finding out how many complaints had
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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        On 28 January 2011 14:04, Ian McPherson <spokenmotion@...> wrote:
        > Dear all,
        > As there have been quite a few comments on this group recently regarding Lambeth Council's new 'No Cycling' signs between Westminster and Lambeth Bridges, I thought this might be of interest.  I requested some information from Lambeth Council under the Freedom of Information Act seeking official clarification on this thorny issue.

        Oh, I'd heard that there were freedom of information requests going
        through, but thought they was looking forward to finding out how many
        complaints had allegedly been made. How do you go about finding this
        information? I only cycle through Southwark and Lambeth, but live and
        work in other boroughs.

        Regards,
        --
           sheridan
      • ray.welsh@lineone.net
        Did you ask what the cost of the policing and monitoring was? It would surely dwarf the £2,600. From: Ian McPherson Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:04 PM To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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          Did you ask what the cost of the policing and monitoring was? It would surely dwarf the £2,600.
           
          Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:04 PM
          Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
           
           

          Dear all,
           
          As there have been quite a few comments on this group recently regarding Lambeth Council's new 'No Cycling' signs between Westminster and Lambeth Bridges, I thought this might be of interest.  I requested some information from Lambeth Council under the Freedom of Information Act seeking official clarification on this thorny issue.  I have now received a response from Nick Halpin, Customer Service Officer for Transport & Highways.
           
          It makes for interesting reading.  It confirms everything we knew it would.  The signs are indeed only advisory and the police can ask you to dismount, but can't make you. Those meaningless signs cost £2,600 of public money.  I'm glad I don't pay my council tax to Lambeth.
           
          I still think the hassle factor of being forced to engage in a conversation with a PCSO/police officer about why I won't automatically dismount on command (which is still potentially the case each time I choose to legally cycle along here) is outrageous. They are within their power to stop you and ask you to dismount.  That's what Lambeth have confirmed below.
           
          I'd be extremely interested in hearing the thoughts of any interested parties in response to this matter.  I think they have gone about this in a most unappealing 'Big Brother' fashion and wonder how many cyclists would have the resolve to challenge/debate with a uniformed police officer.  Many cyclists, I suspect, would simply do as they are told. Job done for Lambeth Council! Ambiguous signs which really mean that cyclists are only advised to dismount drastically cut down legal cycling along this stretch as many cyclists are intimidated by the authorities into dismounting unnecessarily.  The situation is then reviewed by Lambeth Council and the statistics show their project has been a success.  Legal ban then to follow???
           
          Very Poor.
           
          Lambeth's responses to my questions are in light blue.
           
          Ian
           
          From: "Halpin,Nick" <NHalpin@...>
          Date: 28 January 2011 12:33:19 GMT

          Cc:
          "DESTranCPZ3," <DESTranCPZ3@...>
          Subject: Our ref Foi:139008, due date 28/01/2011: FOI Referral FOI Request reference: 139008 - New "No-Cycling" Signs on Thames Pathre:
           

          I have been directed to respond to your recent Foi enquiry.

          Please see our responses to your questions below, highlighted in blue bold.  If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.

          Should you have a complaint about the way your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act has been dealt with, please contact the Corporate Complaints Unit, Lambeth Town Hall , SW2 1RW or e-mail complaints@...

          If you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of your complaint you may contact the Information Commissioner, who can be reached at:

          Wycliffe House
          Water Lane
          Wilmslow
          Cheshire SK9 5AF

          Tel: 01625 545 700

          Fax: 01625 545 510

          Further information on the Freedom of Information Act can be found on the Information Commissioner's website www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk

          Kind Regards, Nick

          Nick Halpin

          Customer Services Officer
          Transport & Highways
          London Borough of Lambeth
          Lambeth Regeneration Housing and Environment

          Floor 3  Blue Star House
          234-244 Stockwell Road, London SW9 9SP
          Tel: 0207 926 0305
          Fax: 0207 926 2357

          email:nhalpin@...

          web:www.lambeth.gov.uk

          Making a difference


                    


          Sent: 30 December 2010 18:14
          To: FoI
          Subject: FOI REQUEST re: New No Cycling signs on Thames Path

          Dear Sir/Madam,

          I noticed that last month a series of  'No Cycling' signs were installed on rubbish bins along the section of path between Lambeth and Westminster Bridges.  I found this very disappointing as the alternative route on Lambeth Palace Road is very busy.

          I have noticed that a recent article on the London-SE1.co.uk blog states that Lambeth Council has stated these signs are actually only advising people not to cycle here, as the necessary Traffic Regulation Order would be required to make the ban legally enforceable.  The council has also stated that a full consultation would be required before such an order was sought.  My FOI request therefore pertains to the following questions:-

          1. Is it therefore correct that it is not yet an offence to cycle along this stretch of path?

          That is correct; the No Cycling signs that have been erected are advisory.

          2. Why were signs erected that do not indicate that it is only advisable not to cycle here?  Signs saying 'No Cycling' are surely somewhat misleading if what the council actually means is 'You are advised not to cycle, but can if you like as there is not yet any legal basis prohibiting this'.

          We were made aware of complaints about a small number of aggressive cyclists who were spoiling it for the majority of sensible cyclists and pedestrians who use this section of the South Bank. Lambeth Council have been working closely with key stakeholders in the South Bank area to try and tackle this aggressive cycling behaviour. A number of options were discussed with partners in relation to the wording of the signing and a decision was made to erect advisory ‘no cycling’ signs. However, we appreciate that it is not clear that these signs are advisory. The effects of the advisory signs are being monitored for a period of up to six months starting from the beginning of December 2010. Information on the number of cyclists still using the section will be collected from PSCO records. At the end of monitoring, it is expected that a review of the situation will occur. This experiment is just one approach that the borough will consider deploying.

          3. How much public money was spent erecting these signs? The cost of the signage and installation amounts to £2600.00

          4. As the relevant TRO has not yet been obtained by Lambeth Council and it is seemingly only advisable not to cycle here, can a PCSO or police officer request cyclists to dismount, even when there is not yet any legal basis prohibiting considerate cycling along this stretch of path?  A PCSO and police officer can request any member of the public to dismount their bicycle and advise them/ask them to dismount. However they are unable to force them to do so.

          5. Should a cyclist choose to disregard the advice of the PCSO to dismount, would they be committing any kind of offence or risk being fined/arrested? No they would not.

          I am a very strong advocate for considerate cycling along this world-class open space.  I am a law-abiding citizen and I am confused by these signs.  I would therefore be extremely grateful if you could provide clarity as to whether I now need to re-route my Sunday ride as I would not appreciate the embarrassment of being chastised by  a police employee.  My feeling is that the local authority should not put up signs saying 'no cycling' when it is not currently illegal to cycle along this stretch of path, nor to pay PCSOs to hassle people going about their business when it appears they have not committed any offence.


          Disclaimers apply for full details see http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer.htm

        • Ian McPherson
          Good points Ray and Sheridan, We can seek addional clarification by emailing foi@Lambeth.gov.uk Any citizen can request this kind of information from a local
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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            Good points Ray and Sheridan,

            We can seek addional clarification by emailing foi@...
            Any citizen can request this kind of information from a local authority


            Ray, in my ignorance, I didn't know that Lambeth would have had to pay extra for specific policing of this path. This makes the whole thing even more incredulous. 

            Ian



            Sent from my iPhone

            On 28 Jan 2011, at 14:16, ray.welsh@... wrote:

             

            Did you ask what the cost of the policing and monitoring was? It would surely dwarf the £2,600.
             
            Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:04 PM
            Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
             
             

            Dear all,
             
            As there have been quite a few comments on this group recently regarding Lambeth Council's new 'No Cycling' signs between Westminster and Lambeth Bridges, I thought this might be of interest.  I requested some information from Lambeth Council under the Freedom of Information Act seeking official clarification on this thorny issue.  I have now received a response from Nick Halpin, Customer Service Officer for Transport & Highways.
             
            It makes for interesting reading.  It confirms everything we knew it would.  The signs are indeed only advisory and the police can ask you to dismount, but can't make you. Those meaningless signs cost £2,600 of public money.  I'm glad I don't pay my council tax to Lambeth.
             
            I still think the hassle factor of being forced to engage in a conversation with a PCSO/police officer about why I won't automatically dismount on command (which is still potentially the case each time I choose to legally cycle along here) is outrageous. They are within their power to stop you and ask you to dismount.  That's what Lambeth have confirmed below.
             
            I'd be extremely interested in hearing the thoughts of any interested parties in response to this matter.  I think they have gone about this in a most unappealing 'Big Brother' fashion and wonder how many cyclists would have the resolve to challenge/debate with a uniformed police officer.  Many cyclists, I suspect, would simply do as they are told. Job done for Lambeth Council! Ambiguous signs which really mean that cyclists are only advised to dismount drastically cut down legal cycling along this stretch as many cyclists are intimidated by the authorities into dismounting unnecessarily.  The situation is then reviewed by Lambeth Council and the statistics show their project has been a success.  Legal ban then to follow???
             
            Very Poor.
             
            Lambeth's responses to my questions are in light blue.
             
            Ian
             
            From: "Halpin,Nick" <NHalpin@...>
            Date: 28 January 2011 12:33:19 GMT

            Cc:
            "DESTranCPZ3," <DESTranCPZ3@...>
            Subject: Our ref Foi:139008, due date 28/01/2011: FOI Referral FOI Request reference: 139008 - New "No-Cycling" Signs on Thames Pathre:
             

            I have been directed to respond to your recent Foi enquiry.

            Please see our responses to your questions below, highlighted in blue bold.  If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.

            Should you have a complaint about the way your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act has been dealt with, please contact the Corporate Complaints Unit, Lambeth Town Hall , SW2 1RW or e-mail complaints@...

            If you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of your complaint you may contact the Information Commissioner, who can be reached at:

            Wycliffe House
            Water Lane
            Wilmslow
            Cheshire SK9 5AF

            Tel: 01625 545 700

            Fax: 01625 545 510

            Further information on the Freedom of Information Act can be found on the Information Commissioner's website www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk

            Kind Regards, Nick

            Nick Halpin

            Customer Services Officer
            Transport & Highways
            London Borough of Lambeth
            Lambeth Regeneration Housing and Environment

            Floor 3  Blue Star House
            234-244 Stockwell Road, London SW9 9SP
            Tel: 0207 926 0305
            Fax: 0207 926 2357

            email:nhalpin@...

            web:www.lambeth.gov.uk

            Making a difference


                      


            Sent: 30 December 2010 18:14
            To: FoI
            Subject: FOI REQUEST re: New No Cycling signs on Thames Path

            Dear Sir/Madam,

            I noticed that last month a series of  'No Cycling' signs were installed on rubbish bins along the section of path between Lambeth and Westminster Bridges.  I found this very disappointing as the alternative route on Lambeth Palace Road is very busy.

            I have noticed that a recent article on the London-SE1.co.uk blog states that Lambeth Council has stated these signs are actually only advising people not to cycle here, as the necessary Traffic Regulation Order would be required to make the ban legally enforceable.  The council has also stated that a full consultation would be required before such an order was sought.  My FOI request therefore pertains to the following questions:-

            1. Is it therefore correct that it is not yet an offence to cycle along this stretch of path?

            That is correct; the No Cycling signs that have been erected are advisory.

            2. Why were signs erected that do not indicate that it is only advisable not to cycle here?  Signs saying 'No Cycling' are surely somewhat misleading if what the council actually means is 'You are advised not to cycle, but can if you like as there is not yet any legal basis prohibiting this'.

            We were made aware of complaints about a small number of aggressive cyclists who were spoiling it for the majority of sensible cyclists and pedestrians who use this section of the South Bank. Lambeth Council have been working closely with key stakeholders in the South Bank area to try and tackle this aggressive cycling behaviour. A number of options were discussed with partners in relation to the wording of the signing and a decision was made to erect advisory ‘no cycling’ signs. However, we appreciate that it is not clear that these signs are advisory. The effects of the advisory signs are being monitored for a period of up to six months starting from the beginning of December 2010. Information on the number of cyclists still using the section will be collected from PSCO records. At the end of monitoring, it is expected that a review of the situation will occur. This experiment is just one approach that the borough will consider deploying.

            3. How much public money was spent erecting these signs? The cost of the signage and installation amounts to £2600.00

            4. As the relevant TRO has not yet been obtained by Lambeth Council and it is seemingly only advisable not to cycle here, can a PCSO or police officer request cyclists to dismount, even when there is not yet any legal basis prohibiting considerate cycling along this stretch of path?  A PCSO and police officer can request any member of the public to dismount their bicycle and advise them/ask them to dismount. However they are unable to force them to do so.

            5. Should a cyclist choose to disregard the advice of the PCSO to dismount, would they be committing any kind of offence or risk being fined/arrested? No they would not.

            I am a very strong advocate for considerate cycling along this world-class open space.  I am a law-abiding citizen and I am confused by these signs.  I would therefore be extremely grateful if you could provide clarity as to whether I now need to re-route my Sunday ride as I would not appreciate the embarrassment of being chastised by  a police employee.  My feeling is that the local authority should not put up signs saying 'no cycling' when it is not currently illegal to cycle along this stretch of path, nor to pay PCSOs to hassle people going about their business when it appears they have not committed any offence.


            Disclaimers apply for full details see http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer.htm

          • citydreams
            Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform. This allows others to see what
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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              Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform.  This allows others to see what is being requested, and how these are responded to.
               
              Cheers,
               
              Ben
            • Liliana Dmitrovic
              great stuff, ian, i ll post something about it on people s republic of southwark as soon as i get a chance to! agree with ben, whatdotheyknow is great for
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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                great stuff, ian, i'll post something about it on people's republic of southwark as soon as i get a chance to!
                agree with ben, whatdotheyknow is great for keeping track of stuff
                lili

                On 28 January 2011 15:10, citydreams <citydreams@...> wrote:
                 

                Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform.  This allows others to see what is being requested, and how these are responded to.
                 
                Cheers,
                 
                Ben



                --
                http://www.peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.co.uk
              • Sally Eva
                Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the advisory signs. A
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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                  Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                  I should send the FOI to them

                  Sally

                  On 28/01/2011 15:14, Liliana Dmitrovic wrote: great stuff, ian, i'll post something about it on people's republic of southwark as soon as i get a chance to!
                  agree with ben, whatdotheyknow is great for keeping track of stuff
                  lili

                  On 28 January 2011 15:10, citydreams <citydreams@...> wrote:
                   
                  Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform.  This allows others to see what is being requested, and how these are responded to.
                   
                  Cheers,
                   
                  Ben



                  --
                  http://www.peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.co.uk
                • ray.welsh@lineone.net
                  Surely the press will be all over that. It is disgraceful. Mobility scooters are allowed on pavements. My late brother had one and couldn’t walk, so he went
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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                    Surely the press will be all over that. It is disgraceful. Mobility scooters are allowed on pavements. My late brother had one and couldn’t walk, so he went inside shops on it. A press release will have wide coverage.
                    From: Sally Eva
                    Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:35 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                     
                    Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                    I should send the FOI to them

                    Sally

                    On 28/01/2011 15:14, Liliana Dmitrovic wrote: great stuff, ian, i'll post something about it on people's republic of southwark as soon as i get a chance to!
                    agree with ben, whatdotheyknow is great for keeping track of stuff
                    lili

                    On 28 January 2011 15:10, citydreams <citydreams@...> wrote:
                     
                    Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform.  This allows others to see what is being requested, and how these are responded to.
                     
                    Cheers,
                     
                    Ben



                    --
                    http://www.peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.co.uk
                  • Ian McPherson
                    Sally, I doubt the PCSOs are always fully briefed/clued up on the remit of their responsibilities in relation to this matter, which makes me suspect that
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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                      Sally,

                      I doubt the PCSOs are always fully briefed/clued up on the remit of their responsibilities in relation to this matter, which makes me suspect that cyclists appearing a bit assertive in challenging them could well find themselves subject to a radio call to the real police.  The location is sensitive due to proximity to parliament. Who really needs stopped and questioned under the auspices of the Terrorism Act?

                      The poor lady on the trike clearly illustrates the reality of what is happening on the street is somewhat different to what Lambeth Council states it intended in their FOI response to me.  Another poster here recently reported also being 'told' to get off, and didn't get the impression they were being given a choice by the PCSO. 

                      Feel free to forward Lambeth's response to whomever you please. 

                      I'd love to see this matter successfully challenged by London's cycling community.  

                      Ian



                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On 28 Jan 2011, at 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:

                       

                      Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                      I should send the FOI to them

                      Sally

                      On 28/01/2011 15:14, Liliana Dmitrovic wrote:

                      great stuff, ian, i'll post something about it on people's republic of southwark as soon as i get a chance to!
                      agree with ben, whatdotheyknow is great for keeping track of stuff
                      lili

                      On 28 January 2011 15:10, citydreams <citydreams@...> wrote:
                       
                      Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform.  This allows others to see what is being requested, and how these are responded to.
                       
                      Cheers,
                       
                      Ben



                      --
                      http://www.peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.co.uk

                    • Tom Crispin
                      My biggest problem with these advisory Cyclists dismount and Cycling prohibited signs is that perfectly law abiding cyclists cast a dark shadow over
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 28, 2011
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                        My biggest problem with these advisory "Cyclists dismount" and
                        "Cycling prohibited" signs is that perfectly law abiding cyclists cast
                        a dark shadow over cyclists by legally riding their bikes, giving the
                        public a perception that cyclists are a law unto themselves.

                        Tom

                        On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:52:07 +0000, you wrote:

                        >Sally,
                        >
                        >I doubt the PCSOs are always fully briefed/clued up on the remit of their responsibilities in relation to this matter, which makes me suspect that cyclists appearing a bit assertive in challenging them could well find themselves subject to a radio call to the real police. The location is sensitive due to proximity to parliament. Who really needs stopped and questioned under the auspices of the Terrorism Act?
                        >
                        >The poor lady on the trike clearly illustrates the reality of what is happening on the street is somewhat different to what Lambeth Council states it intended in their FOI response to me. Another poster here recently reported also being 'told' to get off, and didn't get the impression they were being given a choice by the PCSO.
                        >
                        >Feel free to forward Lambeth's response to whomever you please.
                        >
                        >I'd love to see this matter successfully challenged by London's cycling community.
                        >
                        >Ian
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Sent from my iPhone
                        >
                        >On 28 Jan 2011, at 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.
                        >>
                        >> I should send the FOI to them
                        >>
                        >> Sally
                        >>
                        >> On 28/01/2011 15:14, Liliana Dmitrovic wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> great stuff, ian, i'll post something about it on people's republic of southwark as soon as i get a chance to!
                        >>> agree with ben, whatdotheyknow is great for keeping track of stuff
                        >>> lili
                        >>>
                        >>> On 28 January 2011 15:10, citydreams <citydreams@...> wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>> Can I suggest that any FOIs are placed using the excellent http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/lambeth_borough_council patform. This allows others to see what is being requested, and how these are responded to.
                        >>>
                        >>> Cheers,
                        >>>
                        >>> Ben
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> --
                        >>> http://www.peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.co.uk
                        >>
                        >>
                      • John Hearns
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 29, 2011
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                          On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                           

                          Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                          That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?
                        • Gary Jones
                          Here:   http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=2181   Gary ... From: John Hearns Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 29, 2011
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                            Here:
                             
                             
                            Gary

                            --- On Sat, 29/1/11, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                            From: John Hearns <hearnsj@...>
                            Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                            To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, 29 January, 2011, 9:13

                             


                            On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                             
                            Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                            That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?

                          • Ian McPherson
                            John, The story can be found here: http://lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=2181 I d love to know what Lambeth s response to this is...given that the lady was
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 29, 2011
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                              John,

                              The story can be found here:


                              I'd love to know what Lambeth's response to this is...given that the lady was committing no offence and was perfectly within her rights to cycle along here, as the council have now helpfully clarified themselves.

                              Disgusting!

                              Ian

                              Sent from my iPad

                              On 29 Jan 2011, at 09:13, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                               



                              On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                               

                              Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                              That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?

                            • ray.welsh@lineone.net
                              Thanks, very useful. Lambeth are being bigoted. Surely this is like the riverside near the Tate where anyone in a rush uses the parallel route. This riverside
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 29, 2011
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                                Thanks, very useful. Lambeth are being bigoted. Surely this is like the riverside near the Tate where anyone in a rush uses the parallel route. This riverside isn’t used by the Lycra warriors, is it? When SC monitored the stretch by the Tate is was plain that joggers were more of a hazard than cyclists.
                                 
                                Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                                 
                                 

                                John,
                                 
                                The story can be found here:
                                 
                                 
                                I'd love to know what Lambeth's response to this is...given that the lady was committing no offence and was perfectly within her rights to cycle along here, as the council have now helpfully clarified themselves.
                                 
                                Disgusting!
                                 
                                Ian

                                Sent from my iPad

                                On 29 Jan 2011, at 09:13, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                                 



                                On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                                That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?
                              • John Franks
                                James seems to have gone very silent over this last week; especially as he has been asked questions by at least two cyclists on this forum.
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 29, 2011
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                                  James seems to have gone very silent over this last week; especially as he has been asked questions by at least two cyclists on this forum.


                                  From: "ray.welsh@..." <ray.welsh@...>
                                  To: John Hearns <hearnsj@...>; Ian McPherson <spokenmotion@...>
                                  Cc: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 10:48:44
                                  Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges

                                   

                                  Thanks, very useful. Lambeth are being bigoted. Surely this is like the riverside near the Tate where anyone in a rush uses the parallel route. This riverside isn’t used by the Lycra warriors, is it? When SC monitored the stretch by the Tate is was plain that joggers were more of a hazard than cyclists.
                                   
                                  Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                                   
                                   

                                  John,
                                   
                                  The story can be found here:
                                   
                                   
                                  I'd love to know what Lambeth's response to this is...given that the lady was committing no offence and was perfectly within her rights to cycle along here, as the council have now helpfully clarified themselves.
                                   
                                  Disgusting!
                                   
                                  Ian

                                  Sent from my iPad

                                  On 29 Jan 2011, at 09:13, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                                   



                                  On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                                  That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?

                                • Mark PHC
                                  This just in from Nick Halpin: The “*No Cycling*” signs that have been erected on the Southbank were advisory and part of an ongoing experiment to tackle
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 2, 2011
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                                    This just in from Nick Halpin:

                                    "The “No Cycling” signs that have been erected on the Southbank were advisory and part of an ongoing experiment to tackle aggressive cycling along this stretch of the Southbank; however we recognise that a large number of considerate cyclists have been affected by this decision.  As a result of feedback from residents and users of the river walk, we have decided to replace the “No Cycling” signs with the following: “Pedestrian Priority. Considerate Cycling Welcomed.  The erection of the new signs will take place within the next few weeks.

                                     

                                    We will continue to tackle aggressive cycling along this stretch; however this will be achieved through a mixture of education methods and PCSO's stopping those individuals they feel are cycling too fast."


                                    Mark



                                    On 29 January 2011 21:12, John Franks <johnfr4nks@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    James seems to have gone very silent over this last week; especially as he has been asked questions by at least two cyclists on this forum.


                                    From: "ray.welsh@..." <ray.welsh@...>
                                    To: John Hearns <hearnsj@...>; Ian McPherson <spokenmotion@...>
                                    Cc: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 10:48:44

                                    Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges

                                     

                                    Thanks, very useful. Lambeth are being bigoted. Surely this is like the riverside near the Tate where anyone in a rush uses the parallel route. This riverside isn’t used by the Lycra warriors, is it? When SC monitored the stretch by the Tate is was plain that joggers were more of a hazard than cyclists.
                                     
                                    Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                                     
                                     

                                    John,
                                     
                                    The story can be found here:
                                     
                                     
                                    I'd love to know what Lambeth's response to this is...given that the lady was committing no offence and was perfectly within her rights to cycle along here, as the council have now helpfully clarified themselves.
                                     
                                    Disgusting!
                                     
                                    Ian

                                    Sent from my iPad

                                    On 29 Jan 2011, at 09:13, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                                     



                                    On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                                    That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?


                                  • ann warren
                                    Thank goodness for that. Ann To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com CC: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com From: mark@pollardshillcyclists.org.uk Date: Wed, 2 Feb
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 2, 2011
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                                      Thank goodness for that.
                                       
                                      Ann 

                                      To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                      CC: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: mark@...
                                      Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:47:17 +0000
                                      Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges

                                       
                                      This just in from Nick Halpin:

                                      "The “No Cycling” signs that have been erected on the Southbank were advisory and part of an ongoing experiment to tackle aggressive cycling along this stretch of the Southbank; however we recognise that a large number of considerate cyclists have been affected by this decision.  As a result of feedback from residents and users of the river walk, we have decided to replace the “No Cycling” signs with the following: “Pedestrian Priority. Considerate Cycling Welcomed.  The erection of the new signs will take place within the next few weeks.

                                       

                                      We will continue to tackle aggressive cycling along this stretch; however this will be achieved through a mixture of education methods and PCSO's stopping those individuals they feel are cycling too fast."


                                      Mark



                                      On 29 January 2011 21:12, John Franks <johnfr4nks@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      James seems to have gone very silent over this last week; especially as he has been asked questions by at least two cyclists on this forum.


                                      From: "ray.welsh@..." <ray.welsh@...>
                                      To: John Hearns <hearnsj@...>; Ian McPherson <spokenmotion@...>
                                      Cc: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 10:48:44

                                      Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges

                                       

                                      Thanks, very useful. Lambeth are being bigoted. Surely this is like the riverside near the Tate where anyone in a rush uses the parallel route. This riverside isn’t used by the Lycra warriors, is it? When SC monitored the stretch by the Tate is was plain that joggers were more of a hazard than cyclists.
                                       
                                      Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                                       
                                       

                                      John,
                                       
                                      The story can be found here:
                                       
                                       
                                      I'd love to know what Lambeth's response to this is...given that the lady was committing no offence and was perfectly within her rights to cycle along here, as the council have now helpfully clarified themselves.
                                       
                                      Disgusting!
                                       
                                      Ian

                                      Sent from my iPad

                                      On 29 Jan 2011, at 09:13, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                                       



                                      On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.


                                      That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?



                                    • Matt Beale-Collins
                                      Brilliant. Well done everyone. An important decision. Best wishes Matt Matt Beale-Collins Waste and Sustainability Communities Surrey County Council KT1 2DY
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Feb 3, 2011
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                                        Brilliant. Well done everyone. An important decision.

                                        Best wishes

                                        Matt
                                        Matt Beale-Collins
                                        Waste and Sustainability
                                        Communities
                                        Surrey County Council
                                        KT1 2DY
                                        Office: 0208 541 8566
                                        BlackBerry: 07967536381
                                        Matt.b.collins@...


                                          From: " Vivian McClew" [vmcclew@...]
                                          Sent: 02/02/2011 20:10 GMT
                                          To: "Southwark Cyclists" <southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com>; Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges


                                        Excellent news! Hope the CSO's have been informed.

                                        Thanks for letting us know, Mark

                                        Vivian
                                        ---------
                                        "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school". No Surrender


                                        Sent from my HTC

                                        ----- Reply message -----
                                        From: "Mark PHC" <mark@...>
                                        Date: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 16:47
                                        Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                                        To: "Southwark Cyclists" <southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Cc: "lambeth_cyclists" <Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com>


                                        This just in from Nick Halpin:

                                        "The “No Cycling” signs that have been erected on the Southbank were advisory and part of an ongoing experiment to tackle aggressive cycling along this stretch of the Southbank; however we recognise that a large number of considerate cyclists have been affected by this decision.  As a result of feedback from residents and users of the river walk, we have decided to replace the “No Cycling” signs with the following: “Pedestrian Priority. Considerate Cycling Welcomed.  The erection of the new signs will take place within the next few weeks.

                                         

                                        We will continue to tackle aggressive cycling along this stretch; however this will be achieved through a mixture of education methods and PCSO's stopping those individuals they feel are cycling too fast."


                                        Mark



                                        On 29 January 2011 21:12, John Franks <johnfr4nks@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        James seems to have gone very silent over this last week; especially as he has been asked questions by at least two cyclists on this forum.


                                        From: "ray.welsh@..." <ray.welsh@...>
                                        To: John Hearns <hearnsj@...>; Ian McPherson <spokenmotion@...>
                                        Cc: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 10:48:44

                                        Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges

                                         

                                        Thanks, very useful. Lambeth are being bigoted.. Surely this is like the riverside near the Tate where anyone in a rush uses the parallel route. This riverside isn’t used by the Lycra warriors, is it? When SC monitored the stretch by the Tate is was plain that joggers were more of a hazard than cyclists.
                                         
                                        Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] FOI Response on issue on riverside path between Lambeth & Westminster Bridges
                                         
                                         

                                        John,
                                         
                                        The story can be found here:
                                         
                                         
                                        I'd love to know what Lambeth's response to this is...given that the lady was committing no offence and was perfectly within her rights to cycle along here, as the council have now helpfully clarified themselves.
                                         
                                        Disgusting!
                                         
                                        Ian

                                        Sent from my iPad

                                        On 29 Jan 2011, at 09:13, John Hearns <hearnsj@...> wrote:

                                         



                                        On 28 January 2011 18:35, Sally Eva <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        Have you seen the latest LCC e-newsletter? A disabled lady on a trike has been made to get off and walk by the PCSOs because of the "advisory" signs. A disability charity is kicking up a fuss on her behalf.

                                        That's just shocking. Where can I see a copy of this please?


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