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Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

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  • Alex Crawford
    Burgess Park Lighting According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 21, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Burgess Park Lighting

      According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.

       
      Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
       
      Reasons not to light parks:
      -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
      -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
      -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
      -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
      -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
      -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
      -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
      -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

      As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

      Begin forwarded message:

      From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
      Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
      To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
      Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

       
      With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
       
      http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
       
      Best wishes
       
      Catherine
      Catherine Morgan 
      Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
       

      From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
      Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
      To: Morgan, Catherine
      Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
      Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

      Dear Catherine

      This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

      Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

      Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

      I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

      Many thanks,

      Alex

      On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
      Dear Liz,
       
      many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
       
      It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
       
      Kind regards,
       
      Catherine
       
      Catherine Morgan 
      Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
      Burgess Park
      London SE5 0RJ

      From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
      Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
      To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
      Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
      Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

      Dear Liz
       
      Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
       
      Best wishes
       
      Paula Powell

      From: Liz Harwood
      Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
      To: Parks
      Cc: Alex Crawford
      Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


      We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

      As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

      Look forward to hearing from you.

      Best wishes and thanks for your help.

      Liz Harwood
      "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



      -- 
      Alex Crawford

      Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
      0777 599 0087
      www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 

    • liliana dmitrovic
      much in the same way the shrubbery had to be removed as it makes it easier for people to rob others? the single reason has got to be the cost of it, as the
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 21, 2012
      • 0 Attachment


        much in the same way the shrubbery had to be removed as it makes it easier for people to rob others? the single reason has got to be the cost of it, as the 'burgess park development team' or whatever they are calling themselves have managed to spend the money in a most extravagant way, leaving nothing (not to my knowledge) for maintenance, let alone such outlandish things such as park wardens for example.
        it's also unbelievable how happy the council are to be (ab)using the idea of 'perceptions' of safety. cctv cameras are publicly lauded as fantastic safety measures (regardless of the catastrophic consequences on personal right to not be watched 24/7!) yet, when you push for evidence, they will eventually agree that all cctv cameras do is increase people's 'perceptions' of safety and most certainly do not stop crime.
        it's as unbelievable that the council dares quote 'community' approval of anything, when, in the case of burgess park, people living on the edges of the park were not asked for their opinions, not once. when people living on the 'wrong' side of camberwell road were dismissed as 'not local' (enough?!) etc.

        Best wishes

        Liliana Dmitrovic

        Peoples Republic of Southwark
        On 21/10/2012 16:46, Alex Crawford wrote:
         

        Burgess Park Lighting

        According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.

         
        Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
         
        Reasons not to light parks:
        -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
        -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
        -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
        -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
        -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
        -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
        -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
        -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

        As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

        Begin forwarded message:

        From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
        Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
        To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
        Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

         
        With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
         
        http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
         
        Best wishes
         
        Catherine
        Catherine Morgan 
        Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
         

        From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
        Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
        To: Morgan, Catherine
        Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
        Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

        Dear Catherine

        This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

        Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

        Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

        I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

        Many thanks,

        Alex

        On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
        Dear Liz,
         
        many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
         
        It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
         
        Kind regards,
         
        Catherine
         
        Catherine Morgan 
        Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
        Burgess Park
        London SE5 0RJ

        From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
        Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
        To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
        Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
        Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

        Dear Liz
         
        Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
         
        Best wishes
         
        Paula Powell

        From: Liz Harwood
        Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
        To: Parks
        Cc: Alex Crawford
        Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


        We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

        As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

        Look forward to hearing from you.

        Best wishes and thanks for your help.

        Liz Harwood
        "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



        -- 
        Alex Crawford

        Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
        0777 599 0087
        www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 


      • Jacqueline Saunders
        I agree this is awful. I cycled through it for the first evening ride the other night and was appalled. I live just the other side of the park, in Lomond
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 22, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          I agree this is awful. I cycled through it for the first 'evening' ride the other night and was appalled. I live just the other side of the park, in Lomond Grove, more or less directly opposite the southern entrance to the park.

          The view of the Council suggests that the way to deal with safety in public space is to prevent or deter people using that public space, rather than deal with the perpetrators of crime. This is the equivalent of saying that if women don't want to get attacked they shouldnt' go out at night, or wear certain clothes, or jewellery. Or as some road safety officers have said and support, if you stop people cycling then that's the easiest way to get your cyclist casualties down, or even if stop people walking. it's a ridiculous approach.

          The park is open at night (there are no 'locked' gates), the route through is for cyclists as well as peds. The tennis courts are used in the evening and lit.  There was lighting there previously, and therefore the impacts on biodiversity cannot be assessed.    




          To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
          From: alexecrawford@...
          Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:46:25 +0100
          Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

           
          Burgess Park Lighting

          According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.


           
          Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
           
          Reasons not to light parks:
          -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
          -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
          -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
          -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
          -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
          -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
          -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
          -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

          As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

          Begin forwarded message:

          From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
          Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
          To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
          Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

           
          With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
           
          http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
           
          Best wishes
           
          Catherine
          Catherine Morgan 
          Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
           

          From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
          Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
          To: Morgan, Catherine
          Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
          Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

          Dear Catherine

          This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

          Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

          Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

          I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

          Many thanks,

          Alex

          On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
          Dear Liz,
           
          many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
           
          It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
           
          Kind regards,
           
          Catherine
           
          Catherine Morgan 
          Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
          Burgess Park
          London SE5 0RJ

          From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
          Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
          To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
          Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
          Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

          Dear Liz
           
          Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
           
          Best wishes
           
          Paula Powell

          From: Liz Harwood
          Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
          To: Parks
          Cc: Alex Crawford
          Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


          We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

          As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

          Look forward to hearing from you.

          Best wishes and thanks for your help.

          Liz Harwood
          "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



          -- 
          Alex Crawford

          Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
          0777 599 0087
          www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 


        • Alex Crawford
          Ladies, I have passed your comments on to the Council. A On 22 October 2012 13:22, Jacqueline Saunders
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 23, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Ladies, I have passed your comments on to the Council.

            A

            On 22 October 2012 13:22, Jacqueline Saunders <jacquelinersaunders@...> wrote:
            I agree this is awful. I cycled through it for the first 'evening' ride the other night and was appalled. I live just the other side of the park, in Lomond Grove, more or less directly opposite the southern entrance to the park.

            The view of the Council suggests that the way to deal with safety in public space is to prevent or deter people using that public space, rather than deal with the perpetrators of crime. This is the equivalent of saying that if women don't want to get attacked they shouldnt' go out at night, or wear certain clothes, or jewellery. Or as some road safety officers have said and support, if you stop people cycling then that's the easiest way to get your cyclist casualties down, or even if stop people walking. it's a ridiculous approach.

            The park is open at night (there are no 'locked' gates), the route through is for cyclists as well as peds. The tennis courts are used in the evening and lit.  There was lighting there previously, and therefore the impacts on biodiversity cannot be assessed.    




            To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
            From: alexecrawford@...
            Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:46:25 +0100
            Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

             
            Burgess Park Lighting

            According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.


             
            Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
             
            Reasons not to light parks:
            -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
            -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
            -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
            -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
            -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
            -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
            -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
            -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

            As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

            Begin forwarded message:

            From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
            Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
            To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
            Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

             
            With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
             
            http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
             
            Best wishes
             
            Catherine
            Catherine Morgan 
            Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
             

            From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
            Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
            To: Morgan, Catherine
            Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
            Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

            Dear Catherine

            This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

            Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

            Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

            I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

            Many thanks,

            Alex

            On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
            Dear Liz,
             
            many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
             
            It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
             
            Kind regards,
             
            Catherine
             
            Catherine Morgan 
            Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
            Burgess Park
            London SE5 0RJ

            From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
            Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
            To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
            Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
            Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

            Dear Liz
             
            Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
             
            Best wishes
             
            Paula Powell

            From: Liz Harwood
            Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
            To: Parks
            Cc: Alex Crawford
            Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


            We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

            As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

            Look forward to hearing from you.

            Best wishes and thanks for your help.

            Liz Harwood
            "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



            -- 
            Alex Crawford

            Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
            0777 599 0087
            www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 





            --
            Alex Crawford

            Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists
            0777 599 0087
            www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk

          • Mattbc
            Alex I was meaning to respond on this earlier.    I also don t fully accept the logic either.  Life Cycles - for all your cycling needs. Tel: 07966366762.
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 24, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Alex

              I was meaning to respond on this earlier.    I also don't fully accept the logic either. 

              Life Cycles - for all your cycling needs.
              Tel: 07966366762.



              -------- Original message --------
              Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of
              From: Alex Crawford <alexecrawford@...>
              To: Jacqueline Saunders <jacquelinersaunders@...>,Liliana Dmitrovic <info@...>
              CC: southwark cyclists <southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com>


               

              Ladies, I have passed your comments on to the Council.

              A

              On 22 October 2012 13:22, Jacqueline Saunders <jacquelinersaunders@...> wrote:
              I agree this is awful. I cycled through it for the first 'evening' ride the other night and was appalled. I live just the other side of the park, in Lomond Grove, more or less directly opposite the southern entrance to the park.

              The view of the Council suggests that the way to deal with safety in public space is to prevent or deter people using that public space, rather than deal with the perpetrators of crime. This is the equivalent of saying that if women don't want to get attacked they shouldnt' go out at night, or wear certain clothes, or jewellery. Or as some road safety officers have said and support, if you stop people cycling then that's the easiest way to get your cyclist casualties down, or even if stop people walking. it's a ridiculous approach.

              The park is open at night (there are no 'locked' gates), the route through is for cyclists as well as peds. The tennis courts are used in the evening and lit.  There was lighting there previously, and therefore the impacts on biodiversity cannot be assessed.    




              To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              From: alexecrawford@...
              Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:46:25 +0100
              Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

               
              Burgess Park Lighting

              According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.


               
              Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
               
              Reasons not to light parks:
              -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
              -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
              -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
              -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
              -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
              -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
              -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
              -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

              As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

              Begin forwarded message:

              From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
              Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
              To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
              Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

               
              With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
               
              http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
               
              Best wishes
               
              Catherine
              Catherine Morgan 
              Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
               

              From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
              Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
              To: Morgan, Catherine
              Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
              Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

              Dear Catherine

              This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

              Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

              Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

              I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

              Many thanks,

              Alex

              On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
              Dear Liz,
               
              many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
               
              It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
               
              Kind regards,
               
              Catherine
               
              Catherine Morgan 
              Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
              Burgess Park
              London SE5 0RJ

              From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
              Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
              To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
              Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
              Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

              Dear Liz
               
              Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
               
              Best wishes
               
              Paula Powell

              From: Liz Harwood
              Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
              To: Parks
              Cc: Alex Crawford
              Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


              We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

              As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

              Look forward to hearing from you.

              Best wishes and thanks for your help.

              Liz Harwood
              "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



              -- 
              Alex Crawford

              Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
              0777 599 0087
              www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 





              --
              Alex Crawford

              Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists
              0777 599 0087
              www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk

            • Tom Chance
              I actually do agree to an extent with their argument. Safety usually comes in numbers, not from lighting, CCTV and other technology. It s rather similar to the
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 24, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                I actually do agree to an extent with their argument. Safety usually comes in numbers, not from lighting, CCTV and other technology. It's rather similar to the danger posed by pedestrianising town centres - taking away buses and other traffic can leave the spaces deserted, making them an obvious target for muggers, no matter how well lit the main thoroughfare.

                So I'd throw it back at fellow cyclists - how would you get enough pedestrian and cyclist traffic through the park so that you weren't just cycling alone through a well lit park? Maybe we could push for some positive steps to make it an even more viable and attractive route for an even more attractive mode of transport in the wider area, thus alleviating their concerns?

                You could also ask the council why they are happy to light the Surrey Canal Walk, though hopefully without encouraging them to turn those lights off!

                Tom


                On 24 October 2012 09:34, Mattbc <mattbc@...> wrote:


                Alex

                I was meaning to respond on this earlier.    I also don't fully accept the logic either. 

                Life Cycles - for all your cycling needs.
                Tel: 07966366762.



                -------- Original message --------
                Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of
                From: Alex Crawford <alexecrawford@...>
                To: Jacqueline Saunders <jacquelinersaunders@...>,Liliana Dmitrovic <info@...>
                CC: southwark cyclists <southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com>


                 

                Ladies, I have passed your comments on to the Council.

                A

                On 22 October 2012 13:22, Jacqueline Saunders <jacquelinersaunders@...> wrote:
                I agree this is awful. I cycled through it for the first 'evening' ride the other night and was appalled. I live just the other side of the park, in Lomond Grove, more or less directly opposite the southern entrance to the park.

                The view of the Council suggests that the way to deal with safety in public space is to prevent or deter people using that public space, rather than deal with the perpetrators of crime. This is the equivalent of saying that if women don't want to get attacked they shouldnt' go out at night, or wear certain clothes, or jewellery. Or as some road safety officers have said and support, if you stop people cycling then that's the easiest way to get your cyclist casualties down, or even if stop people walking. it's a ridiculous approach.

                The park is open at night (there are no 'locked' gates), the route through is for cyclists as well as peds. The tennis courts are used in the evening and lit.  There was lighting there previously, and therefore the impacts on biodiversity cannot be assessed.    




                To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                From: alexecrawford@...
                Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:46:25 +0100
                Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

                 
                Burgess Park Lighting

                According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.


                 
                Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
                 
                Reasons not to light parks:
                -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
                -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
                -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
                -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
                -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
                -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
                -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
                -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

                As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

                Begin forwarded message:

                From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
                Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
                To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
                Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

                 
                With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
                 
                http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
                 
                Best wishes
                 
                Catherine
                Catherine Morgan 
                Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
                 

                From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
                Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
                To: Morgan, Catherine
                Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
                Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

                Dear Catherine

                This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

                Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

                Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

                I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

                Many thanks,

                Alex

                On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
                Dear Liz,
                 
                many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
                 
                It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
                 
                Kind regards,
                 
                Catherine
                 
                Catherine Morgan 
                Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
                Burgess Park
                London SE5 0RJ

                From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
                Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
                To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
                Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
                Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

                Dear Liz
                 
                Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
                 
                Best wishes
                 
                Paula Powell

                From: Liz Harwood
                Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
                To: Parks
                Cc: Alex Crawford
                Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


                We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

                As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

                Look forward to hearing from you.

                Best wishes and thanks for your help.

                Liz Harwood
                "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



                -- 
                Alex Crawford

                Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
                0777 599 0087
                www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 





                --
                Alex Crawford

                Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists
                0777 599 0087
                www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk






                --
                http://tom.acrewoods.net   http://twitter.com/tom_chance
              • Matt Beale-Collins
                Alex Apologies for the short response earlier. I meant to add that I don t see the logic of keeping a cycle route dark because it makes no difference
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 24, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Alex

                  Apologies for the short response earlier. I meant to add that I don't see the logic of keeping a cycle route dark because it makes no difference safetywise and that it's in the public interest to deter use of these routes at night. We will shortly be re-launching a bike recycle project (separate from the BMX plans) based at Burgess Adventure Playground and hopefully this will increase use of the 'new' cycle routes and the Canal path. It is a real shame that these areas become no-go after dark. Surely the more used they are the less likely it is that attacks will happen. I don't think park users were consulted ie walkers and cyclists.

                  Best wishes

                  Matt


                  To: jacquelinersaunders@...; info@...
                  CC: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                  From: alexecrawford@...
                  Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:11:52 +0100
                  Subject: Re: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

                   

                  Ladies, I have passed your comments on to the Council.

                  A

                  On 22 October 2012 13:22, Jacqueline Saunders <jacquelinersaunders@...> wrote:
                  I agree this is awful. I cycled through it for the first 'evening' ride the other night and was appalled. I live just the other side of the park, in Lomond Grove, more or less directly opposite the southern entrance to the park.

                  The view of the Council suggests that the way to deal with safety in public space is to prevent or deter people using that public space, rather than deal with the perpetrators of crime. This is the equivalent of saying that if women don't want to get attacked they shouldnt' go out at night, or wear certain clothes, or jewellery. Or as some road safety officers have said and support, if you stop people cycling then that's the easiest way to get your cyclist casualties down, or even if stop people walking. it's a ridiculous approach.

                  The park is open at night (there are no 'locked' gates), the route through is for cyclists as well as peds. The tennis courts are used in the evening and lit.  There was lighting there previously, and therefore the impacts on biodiversity cannot be assessed.    




                  To: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                  From: alexecrawford@...
                  Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:46:25 +0100
                  Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] Lighting in Burgess Park at night - or lack of

                   
                  Burgess Park Lighting

                  According to the Council, the Friends of Burgess Park were heavily consulted on the matter of additional lights in the park, and they were in full agreement:  "We work closely with our asset management and also our police and community safety teams and this is what the evidence was based on."  The text below is copied from the Council's lighting policy.


                   
                  Often lighting is seen to be the one of the solutions to tackling crime and fear of crime in parks. The parks department is regularly approached with requests for lighting in parks in response to such issues of crime and anti social behaviour. In fact evidence shows that lighting parks encourages people to linger in them after dark and this can increase anti social behaviour and impact on nearby residents i.e. increased noise levels. It is our LBS policy to avoid lighting parks for a number of reasons indicated below.
                   
                  Reasons not to light parks:
                  -         There is clear planning guidance to reduce light pollution wherever possible (See Appendix 1)
                  -         Most parks do no have a designated cycle route or right of way running through them and therefore we are not obliged to light pathways
                  -         Lighting gives cyclists and pedestrians a false sense of security, suggesting that the route is more safe after dark, when we cannot guarantee this
                  -         Parks are predominantly daytime places due to their nature and we do not want to encourage night time use
                  -         There are often clear road alternatives to cycling or walking through a park
                  -         There are significant revenue and capital funding implications to new lighting
                  -         Lighting in parks negatively impacts on biodiversity
                  -         Some parks are locked at night – there is no reason to light these sites

                  As you can see in the thread below, we have questioned this policy...

                  Begin forwarded message:

                  From: "Morgan, Catherine" <Catherine.Morgan@...>
                  Date: 18 October 2012 17:20:09 GMT+01:00
                  To: "Alex Crawford" <alex@...>
                  Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

                   
                  With regard to the information below, yes please do share it with your group - you may find this useful which was research done by Manchester Police on 'Designing Out Crime'.
                   
                  http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html
                   
                  Best wishes
                   
                  Catherine
                  Catherine Morgan 
                  Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
                   

                  From: alexecrawford@... [mailto:alexecrawford@...] On Behalf Of Alex Crawford
                  Sent: 17 October 2012 15:53
                  To: Morgan, Catherine
                  Cc: Liz Harwood; Wade, John; Colin Hartridge-Price
                  Subject: Re: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

                  Dear Catherine

                  This decision about lighting comes as a surprise. I had never heard that lighting made sites less safe.

                  Does that mean the lights already installed will not be switched on too?

                  Colin and I can see this does have some logic, and we know that attacks have taken place in Burgess Park in the past.  Even if a route through the Park was lit though, we suspect attacks would still take place. 

                  I wonder, where does your research comes from and also is there any scope for Southwark Cyclists and indeed The Friends to be consulted about lighting in parks?

                  Many thanks,

                  Alex

                  On 16 October 2012 17:00, Morgan, Catherine <Catherine.Morgan@...> wrote:
                  Dear Liz,
                   
                  many thanks for your email regarding lighting in Burgess Park.  Although lighting in the early evening in the winter would seem to be a logical idea, this was consulted on at great length by stakeholders including representatives from the Aylesbury estate, Friends of Burgess Park and internal departments such as community safety and the parks teams as the park was undergoing redevelopment.
                   
                  It was agreed that there would not be lighting in the park for safety reasons.  Generally, lighting encourages people to use the park after dark and this provides an ideal situation for thieves to take advantage of people walking/jogging/cycling through later in the evening when the park isn't patrolled by wardens or the park attendant.  Lighting doesn't make the park safer, it just makes people feel safer which encourages them to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.
                   
                  Kind regards,
                   
                  Catherine
                   
                  Catherine Morgan 
                  Burgess Park Contracts and Services Officer
                  Burgess Park
                  London SE5 0RJ

                  From: Powell, Paula On Behalf Of Parks
                  Sent: 11 October 2012 10:51
                  To: 'Liz Harwood'; Morgan, Catherine
                  Cc: Alex Crawford; Parks; Wade, John
                  Subject: RE: Lighting in Burgess Park at night

                  Dear Liz
                   
                  Thank you for your email.  This is being forwarded to Catherine Morgan, Burgess Park Contracts and Service Officer to respond to you directly.
                   
                  Best wishes
                   
                  Paula Powell

                  From: Liz Harwood
                  Sent: 11 October 2012 10:38
                  To: Parks
                  Cc: Alex Crawford
                  Subject: Lighting in Burgess Park at night


                  We regularly cycle across Burgess Park and I notice that only part of the path is lit during the hours of darkness. I (along with many cyclists) travel south down Portland St ,cross Albany Road and cut through the park to Edmund St. The first new bit of the path is lit but not the more major path is not when you are traveling south.

                  As we are moving into darker evenings and it is quite dangerous in the dark I was wondering if you could sort this out.

                  Look forward to hearing from you.

                  Best wishes and thanks for your help.

                  Liz Harwood
                  "The email you received and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be covered by legal and/or professional privilege and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this in error please notify us immediately. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or the person responsible for delivering it to them you may not copy it, forward it or otherwise use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so may be unlawful. Where opinions are expressed in the email they are not necessarily those of Southwark Council and Southwark Council is not responsible for any changes made to the message after it has been sent.



                  -- 
                  Alex Crawford

                  Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists 
                  0777 599 0087
                  www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk 





                  --
                  Alex Crawford

                  Coordinator, Southwark Cyclists
                  0777 599 0087
                  www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk


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