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Re: new way of grizzly

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  • Bob Wright
    Didn t any of your mothers teach you if you don t have anything good to say...don t say anything:? Yup thats why i haven t said anything...Bob
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 23 4:48 PM
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      Didn't any of your mothers teach you "if you don't have anything good to say...don't say anything:?

      Yup thats why i haven't said anything...Bob
    • Chris
      This is an absurd statement. We are a discussion group! It s been 15 years since I purchased the Grizzly bandsaw mentioned in my last post and I m still using
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 23 6:33 PM
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        This is an absurd statement. We are a discussion group! It's been 15 years since I purchased the Grizzly bandsaw mentioned in my last post and I'm still using it today. As I stated, I don't know if Grizzly's QC has improved or not but I would be totally dishonest if I had stated that this was a viable, reliable or even usable machine out of the box. I didn't even scratch the surface of the things I had to do to that machine. The rest of the story was rather bloody. To this day I have a chunk of 6-32 tap embedded in my left forefinger and that incident is unrelated to bloody incident.
        Chris
        From: "estimator33@..." <estimator33@...>
        To: "southbend10k@yahoogroups.com" <southbend10k@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 7:05 PM
        Subject: Re: [southbend10k] Re: new way of grizzly <South Bend>

         
        Since PapaGrizzly built, owns and runs the company, I'd say he most likely knows a bit about marketing, sales, and the other aspects of his business.  

        I'd say paying for two years to listen to the crap he listened/read on PM shows a lot of patience.  If he's a member of this group.....now he gets it here.

        ...oh, and what is wrong with him protecting the copyrights that he has paid for?  None of the people he is "threatening" had the good manners to ask his permission  to use the SB name.

        Didn't any of your mothers teach you "if you don't have anything good to say...don't say anything:?

           

        From: j. eric townsend <jet@...>
        To: southbend10k@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:50 AM
        Subject: Re: [southbend10k] Re: new way of grizzly <South Bend>

         
        "However, we decided to stop advertising here because of all the
        negative comments being made by a small group of individuals."

        Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. They could have easily
        engaged all the whiny-butts and turned it into a positive, but instead
        they're taking an action that looks like blackmail: "Shut them up or we
        take our advertising dollars elsewhere."

        If "Papagrizzly" really is an exec at Grizzly, I hope his marketing team
        sit him down and do some explaining about how PR works. Here I was
        looking at Grizzly band saws and now I think I'll shop elsewhere.

        --
        J. Eric Townsend
        design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ
        PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8




      • j. eric townsend
        I m quite happy with the band saw I bought 8 years ago and the radial drill press I bought last year from Grizzly. My main beef is that the CEO is willing to
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 23 6:56 PM
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          I'm quite happy with the band saw I bought 8 years ago and the radial
          drill press I bought last year from Grizzly. My main beef is that the
          CEO is willing to punish a forum by pulling ads because people talk
          trash about Grizzly on said forums. (full disclosure: I don't actively
          read PM and spend most of my time on cnczone, so I don't know how
          intense the PM trash talk gets.)

          If I stopped talking to anyone who trashed my employer's products my
          only friends would be weirdos who live off the grid and think TV is a
          mind control experiment run by Jewish/Lizard/Templar/Mason overlords who
          dwell at the center of the Earth.


          --
          J. Eric Townsend
          design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ
          PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
        • estimator33@yahoo.com
          I m not so sure it s a punishment at all.  His advertising dollars are meant to do a job.  Increase sales.  Given the rhetoric he made an observation that
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 23 7:23 PM
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            I'm not so sure it's a punishment at all.  His advertising dollars are meant to do a job.  Increase sales.  Given the rhetoric he made an observation that his money would be more effective elsewhere.  Any punishment was self inflicted  on the forum owner by forum members. It was fairly obvious that the members would not be happy unless he moved the manufacturing back to the US, made the machines just like they were in the 40's, paid the workers high wages and sold the equipment at prices a hobbyist could afford.

            Remember, PapaGrizzly owns the company.

            "If I stopped talking to anyone who trashed....." It's one thing to talk to them...another thing to pay to do it.  


            From: j. eric townsend <jet@...>
            To: southbend10k@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Chris <cjstrazz@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:56 PM
            Subject: Re: [southbend10k] Re: new way of grizzly <South Bend>

             
            I'm quite happy with the band saw I bought 8 years ago and the radial
            drill press I bought last year from Grizzly. My main beef is that the
            CEO is willing to punish a forum by pulling ads because people talk
            trash about Grizzly on said forums. (full disclosure: I don't actively
            read PM and spend most of my time on cnczone, so I don't know how
            intense the PM trash talk gets.)

            If I stopped talking to anyone who trashed my employer's products my
            only friends would be weirdos who live off the grid and think TV is a
            mind control experiment run by Jewish/Lizard/Templar/Mason overlords who
            dwell at the center of the Earth.

            --
            J. Eric Townsend
            design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ
            PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8


          • David Winkel
            Hello all, I m a lurker, and a long time 10k owner, (1957), who s currently restoring a 2nd 10k, (1978 model). I don t know specifically what items the
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 24 5:46 AM
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              Hello all,

              I'm a lurker, and a long time 10k owner, (1957), who's currently restoring a 2nd 10k, (1978 model).

              I don't know specifically what items the copyright flap is all about but here's an observation and comment:

              1) Copyrights do expire. As an author I'm interested in these issues and consulted a copyright attorney about book issues. Anything prior to 1963 is out from under the copyright shield.

              2) I'm not going to start reproducing anything from my 1957 model but suppose I did decide to copy item "X".

              How many would I sell?. Two?. Ten?. Surely not a hundred.

              Seems like the collateral damage of trying to shut down a micro business like that would far outweigh the tiny profit to be made by supplying current versions.

              Dave Winkel
            • j. eric townsend
              ... IANAL (I am not a lawyer :-), but I deal with copyright and trademark routinely at my day job. I don t know what the Grizzly CEO was referring to, but
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 24 6:07 AM
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                > 1) Copyrights do expire. As an author I'm interested in these issues and consulted a copyright attorney about book issues. Anything prior to 1963 is out from under the copyright shield.

                IANAL (I am not a lawyer :-), but I deal with copyright and trademark
                routinely at my day job. I don't know what the Grizzly CEO was
                referring to, but depending on when a work was first copyrighted, it may
                or may not still be under copyright today. (Search for "disney
                copyright law" on your favorite search engine -- basically Disney and
                the big media companies keep getting congress to extend the length of
                copyright protection.)

                Lindsay Press is in the business of reprinting books and such that have
                lost copyright, including many South Bend manuals.

                > 2) I'm not going to start reproducing anything from my 1957 model but suppose I did decide to copy item "X".

                If you did, copyright wouldn't have anything to do with it. Patents
                might, but they expire after 17 years or so. I find it highly unlikely
                that *anything* on a 1957 lathe is still covered by any sort of patent.
                You are also allowed (in the US at least) to make compatible and
                replacement parts so long as you don't violate patents. Think
                aftermarket parts for cars or third-party batteries for cell phones.

                Trademarks are an entirely different issue than copyrights or patents,
                if a company does not aggressively enforce trademark protection, it will
                expire. (Thus "photocopy" instead of "Xerox".)


                --
                J. Eric Townsend
                design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ
                PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
              • Douglas Pollard
                Back when a lot of that SB stuff was written some copyrights had to be renewed and if they were not they became public domain. I found this out from copying
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 24 6:26 AM
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                  Back when a lot of that SB stuff was written some copyrights had to be renewed and if they were not they became public domain.   I found this out from copying old movies.  How that may apply to South Bend literature and catalogs another thing.  Some of it may be in the public domain but you better know what you are doing if the idea is to publish any of it.               Doug



                  On 08/24/2011 08:46 AM, David Winkel wrote:  

                  Hello all,

                  I'm a lurker, and a long time 10k owner, (1957), who's currently restoring a 2nd 10k, (1978 model).

                  I don't know specifically what items the copyright flap is all about but here's an observation and comment:

                  1) Copyrights do expire. As an author I'm interested in these issues and consulted a copyright attorney about book issues. Anything prior to 1963 is out from under the copyright shield.

                  2) I'm not going to start reproducing anything from my 1957 model but suppose I did decide to copy item "X".

                  How many would I sell?. Two?. Ten?. Surely not a hundred.

                  Seems like the collateral damage of trying to shut down a micro business like that would far outweigh the tiny profit to be made by supplying current versions.

                  Dave Winkel


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