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Mixing Fahrenheit 9/11

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  • Sally Corbett
    Hi all Just going back to the construction of the sounds of the attack on the World Trade Centre in the doco Farhrenheit 9/11. Knowing something now about how
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 22, 2004
      Hi all

      Just going back to the construction of the sounds of the attack on the
      World Trade Centre in the doco Farhrenheit 9/11. Knowing something now
      about how the sound was conceived and constructed has lead me to a few
      thoughts.

      The sound with no image was incredibly powerful, yes, but really we all
      already knew what the image looked like, (we had seen it SO many times)
      so we, the audience, were seeing the pictures in our minds even though
      they weren't actually there. So Mr. Moore cleverly worked with that
      fact. He used the sound to bring back the images for us, and all of the
      emotions associated with those images - the shock, the grief, the
      implausability - (how could this ever happen to us?)the political,
      social and emotional aftermath, the terrible instability in Iraq and
      Afghanistan now, the world implications, threat to world peace - it is
      huge. And this can all be evoked by sound - but it's not just sound.
      It's the way we, the audience, place the known images with the sound.
      So it's not actually sound with no images - there are images but they
      are in the audiences imagination. That's where it's powerful on an
      individual level.

      I remember talking to a friend after seeing 9/11 about that very
      sequence and I thought that the sound MUST have been constructed, I
      thought that you couldn't get that good sound just from a field
      recording. I thought you probably could never invent a microphone that
      could capture the enormity of the sound. So to find out that the sound
      was all authentic even though it was constructed was interesting.

      Two films come to mind. One documentary the other a feature film. The
      documentary "Control Room" about the Arabic TV broadcaster Al Jazeera.
      There was an incredible sound of some of the US missile attacks on
      Baghdad at the beginning of the war in Iraq. It felt enormous. And this
      is interesting - when I think of Saving Private Ryan, I don't think the
      "war" sounds had that same affect on me - I wonder if that's because it
      didn't seem so real.

      The film "The Pianist" also had an incredibly powerful sequence when
      the main character - Speilmann I think was escaping from tank fire into
      a destroyed hospital. That sequence literally ffrightened me. But that
      also wasn't "real" - so where does that leave me?

      Sally C
    • Svenn J. Dahle
      Documentaries is a slippery rug, something that Mr. Moore (and Leni Riefenstahl for that matters) has proved beyond any doubt. Mr. Moore s credo: the
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 23, 2004
        "Documentaries" is a slippery rug, something that Mr. Moore (and Leni
        Riefenstahl for that matters) has proved beyond any doubt.

        Mr. Moore's credo: the ultimate goal justifies the means, must fall
        under close scrutiny.
        Seductive and manipulative as his works surely am, I for one
        questions the authencity of such a scene as this thread is discussing.
        Mr. Moore, and his co-workers, will of course insist on the
        truthfulness in the scene, as they bloody well has to.
        An admission of using the "tools of fiction" will effectivly unveil
        Mr. Moore's true profession, (which he btw. is cruelly good at), the
        propaganda film.

        In my view, when analyzing both 9/11 and his earlier works, there is
        no doubt in my mind that Mr. Moore cannot be considered a truthful
        individual.

        Of course; truth and reality is a matter of subjective impression.
        One mans truth; the other mans lie.
        One mans reality, the other mans fiction.
        As I understand it; this is the core of our art.
        Not showing it as it is, but as it feels.
        Are these the tools of documentaries as well?
        And if they are; then where is the balance beetween the open and
        ethical manipulation, and the (although subjectivly justified) hidden
        and immoral manipulation?
        Why the xtreme emotional impact when a speculative director shows us
        his "truth", stressing that his truth is THE TRUTH?
        Could it be that Mr. Moore actually preys on the events he claims to
        be documenting as well as the emotional response of his audience?
        Beats me, but then I do not accept Mr. Moores postulate as reality.

        The documentary film is maybe the most facinating genre in our craft.
        My favourite is the fictive documentary, especially those of the
        British director; Peter Watkins.
        Check out:

        The forgotten Faces, http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0317522/combined

        and

        Punishment Park, http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0067633/combined

        These films are deeply political and manipulative works, yet on the
        right side of ethics.
        Mr. Moore is not...

        Regards

        Svenn J. Dahle



        ---- Original Message ----
        From: sally@...
        To: sound-article-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [sound-article-list] Mixing Fahrenheit 9/11
        Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:16:08 +1100

        >Hi all
        >
        >Just going back to the construction of the sounds of the attack on
        >the
        >World Trade Centre in the doco Farhrenheit 9/11. Knowing something
        >now
        >about how the sound was conceived and constructed has lead me to a
        >few
        >thoughts.
        >
        >The sound with no image was incredibly powerful, yes, but really we
        >all
        >already knew what the image looked like, (we had seen it SO many
        >times)
        > so we, the audience, were seeing the pictures in our minds even
        >though
        >they weren't actually there. So Mr. Moore cleverly worked with that
        >fact. He used the sound to bring back the images for us, and all of
        >the
        >emotions associated with those images - the shock, the grief, the
        >implausability - (how could this ever happen to us?)the political,
        >social and emotional aftermath, the terrible instability in Iraq and
        >Afghanistan now, the world implications, threat to world peace - it
        >is
        >huge. And this can all be evoked by sound - but it's not just sound.
        >It's the way we, the audience, place the known images with the sound.
        >
        >So it's not actually sound with no images - there are images but they
        >
        >are in the audiences imagination. That's where it's powerful on an
        >individual level.
        >
        >I remember talking to a friend after seeing 9/11 about that very
        >sequence and I thought that the sound MUST have been constructed, I
        >thought that you couldn't get that good sound just from a field
        >recording. I thought you probably could never invent a microphone
        >that
        >could capture the enormity of the sound. So to find out that the
        >sound
        >was all authentic even though it was constructed was interesting.
        >
        >Two films come to mind. One documentary the other a feature film. The
        >
        >documentary "Control Room" about the Arabic TV broadcaster Al
        >Jazeera.
        >There was an incredible sound of some of the US missile attacks on
        >Baghdad at the beginning of the war in Iraq. It felt enormous. And
        >this
        >is interesting - when I think of Saving Private Ryan, I don't think
        >the
        >"war" sounds had that same affect on me - I wonder if that's because
        >it
        >didn't seem so real.
        >
        >The film "The Pianist" also had an incredibly powerful sequence when
        >the main character - Speilmann I think was escaping from tank fire
        >into
        >a destroyed hospital. That sequence literally ffrightened me. But
        >that
        >also wasn't "real" - so where does that leave me?
        >
        >Sally C
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >--------------------~-->
        >$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
        >http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/J.MolB/TM
        >--------------------------------------------------------------------~
        >->
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        mvh/regards

        Svenn J. Dahle
      • Sally Corbett
        Sven, Maybe all films are propaganda . I think we have to be careful not to condemn one film as propaganda maybe because we don t agree with it s premise or
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 23, 2004
          Sven,

          Maybe all films are "propaganda". I think we have to be careful not to
          condemn one film as propaganda maybe because we don't agree with it's
          premise or it's opinions. It is easier to see propaganda when the topic
          is political or satirical, or there is some social comment, especially
          if we don't agree with it.

          I guess I'm interetested in the discussion of whether authentic sound
          is obligatory for an authentic documentary or whether using constructed
          sound is a legitimate way to go. And if we choose to use more
          constructed sound - louder, better, more defined etc. we are presumably
          going for heightened emotional impact. Isn't that what most directors
          are going for, no matter what the style of film?


          Sally C



          On Tuesday, November 23, 2004, at 11:56 PM, Svenn J. Dahle wrote:

          >
          > "Documentaries" is a slippery rug, something that Mr. Moore (and Leni
          > Riefenstahl for that matters) has proved beyond any doubt.
          >
          > Mr. Moore's credo: the ultimate goal justifies the means, must fall
          > under close scrutiny.
          > Seductive and manipulative as his works surely am, I for one
          > questions the authencity of such a scene as this thread is discussing.
          > Mr. Moore, and his co-workers, will of course insist on the
          > truthfulness in the scene, as they bloody well has to.
          > An admission of using the "tools of fiction" will effectivly unveil
          > Mr. Moore's true profession, (which he btw. is cruelly good at), the
          > propaganda film.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • kenfelk
          Hi all, although i think this is a rather tricky/difficult subject i would like to add some questions/fuel to the fire. what if mr. moore s point is to try and
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 24, 2004
            Hi all,

            although i think this is a rather tricky/difficult subject i would
            like to add some questions/fuel to the fire.

            what if mr. moore's point is to try and beat mr. bush with it's own
            weapon ?
            to clarify : (what)if none of the images, the bush party used as
            evidence for the presence of "weapons of mass destruction" in iraq,
            were real? is this not propaganda?

            is mr. moore not trying to achieve the exact opposite of what mr bush
            is trying, by using the same media materials/tricks ?

            maybe moore's introduction to the film " was it a dream....or was it
            real ?" says it all...

            is this unethical?

            maybe the images used in the scene directly after the 9/11 footage
            are not even related to what mr moore is referring ? but then again
            what if? what if mr. bush did actually wait for 7 minutes etc...?

            i think these are questions one should ask oneself when watching the
            news or any mediasource and yes also mr. moore's documentary.


            greetings,

            arnoud



            --- In sound-article-list@yahoogroups.com, "Svenn J. Dahle"
            <lille@l...> wrote:
            > "Documentaries" is a slippery rug, something that Mr. Moore (and Leni
            > Riefenstahl for that matters) has proved beyond any doubt.
            >
            > Mr. Moore's credo: the ultimate goal justifies the means, must fall
            > under close scrutiny.
            > Seductive and manipulative as his works surely am, I for one
            > questions the authencity of such a scene as this thread is discussing.
            > Mr. Moore, and his co-workers, will of course insist on the
            > truthfulness in the scene, as they bloody well has to.
            > An admission of using the "tools of fiction" will effectivly unveil
            > Mr. Moore's true profession, (which he btw. is cruelly good at), the
            > propaganda film.
            >
            > In my view, when analyzing both 9/11 and his earlier works, there is
            > no doubt in my mind that Mr. Moore cannot be considered a truthful
            > individual.
            >
            > Of course; truth and reality is a matter of subjective impression.
            > One mans truth; the other mans lie.
            > One mans reality, the other mans fiction.
            > As I understand it; this is the core of our art.
            > Not showing it as it is, but as it feels.
            > Are these the tools of documentaries as well?
            > And if they are; then where is the balance beetween the open and
            > ethical manipulation, and the (although subjectivly justified) hidden
            > and immoral manipulation?
            > Why the xtreme emotional impact when a speculative director shows us
            > his "truth", stressing that his truth is THE TRUTH?
            > Could it be that Mr. Moore actually preys on the events he claims to
            > be documenting as well as the emotional response of his audience?
            > Beats me, but then I do not accept Mr. Moores postulate as reality.
            >
            > The documentary film is maybe the most facinating genre in our craft.
            > My favourite is the fictive documentary, especially those of the
            > British director; Peter Watkins.
            > Check out:
            >
            > The forgotten Faces, http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0317522/combined
            >
            > and
            >
            > Punishment Park, http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0067633/combined
            >
            > These films are deeply political and manipulative works, yet on the
            > right side of ethics.
            > Mr. Moore is not...
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Svenn J. Dahle
            >
            >
            >
            > ---- Original Message ----
            > From: sally@h...
            > To: sound-article-list@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [sound-article-list] Mixing Fahrenheit 9/11
            > Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:16:08 +1100
            >
            > >Hi all
            > >
            > >Just going back to the construction of the sounds of the attack on
            > >the
            > >World Trade Centre in the doco Farhrenheit 9/11. Knowing something
            > >now
            > >about how the sound was conceived and constructed has lead me to a
            > >few
            > >thoughts.
            > >
            > >The sound with no image was incredibly powerful, yes, but really we
            > >all
            > >already knew what the image looked like, (we had seen it SO many
            > >times)
            > > so we, the audience, were seeing the pictures in our minds even
            > >though
            > >they weren't actually there. So Mr. Moore cleverly worked with that
            > >fact. He used the sound to bring back the images for us, and all of
            > >the
            > >emotions associated with those images - the shock, the grief, the
            > >implausability - (how could this ever happen to us?)the political,
            > >social and emotional aftermath, the terrible instability in Iraq and
            > >Afghanistan now, the world implications, threat to world peace - it
            > >is
            > >huge. And this can all be evoked by sound - but it's not just sound.
            > >It's the way we, the audience, place the known images with the sound.
            > >
            > >So it's not actually sound with no images - there are images but they
            > >
            > >are in the audiences imagination. That's where it's powerful on an
            > >individual level.
            > >
            > >I remember talking to a friend after seeing 9/11 about that very
            > >sequence and I thought that the sound MUST have been constructed, I
            > >thought that you couldn't get that good sound just from a field
            > >recording. I thought you probably could never invent a microphone
            > >that
            > >could capture the enormity of the sound. So to find out that the
            > >sound
            > >was all authentic even though it was constructed was interesting.
            > >
            > >Two films come to mind. One documentary the other a feature film. The
            > >
            > >documentary "Control Room" about the Arabic TV broadcaster Al
            > >Jazeera.
            > >There was an incredible sound of some of the US missile attacks on
            > >Baghdad at the beginning of the war in Iraq. It felt enormous. And
            > >this
            > >is interesting - when I think of Saving Private Ryan, I don't think
            > >the
            > >"war" sounds had that same affect on me - I wonder if that's because
            > >it
            > >didn't seem so real.
            > >
            > >The film "The Pianist" also had an incredibly powerful sequence when
            > >the main character - Speilmann I think was escaping from tank fire
            > >into
            > >a destroyed hospital. That sequence literally ffrightened me. But
            > >that
            > >also wasn't "real" - so where does that leave me?
            > >
            > >Sally C
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > >--------------------~-->
            > >$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
            > >http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/J.MolB/TM
            > >--------------------------------------------------------------------~
            > >->
            > >
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > mvh/regards
            >
            > Svenn J. Dahle
          • ricardo_cutz
            Hi! I just came in today, feb 18. I was in Brazil and work with movies to. Hello everybody! I want to say, what amazing sound on the incridibles!!! Rhandy!
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 18, 2005
              Hi!

              I just came in today, feb 18. I was in Brazil and work with movies to.
              Hello everybody!

              I want to say, what amazing sound on the incridibles!!!
              Rhandy! It`s simple out of control!!!

              Incredible how the ambiences works, footsteps, reverbration...

              How this kind of concern appears in such kind of work?
              Attetion to realism, creativity?

              Thanks
              Ricardo Cutz

              PS: sorry for my english mistakes




              --- In sound-article-list@yahoogroups.com, "svenecarlsson" <svene.carlsson@f...> wrote:
              >
              > Sally wrote
              > > I've got a bit confused by this last thread.
              >
              > It is an excerpt from Incredibles questions thread at sound_design group
              >
              > Here is another excerpt. (It is not the complete thread)
              > //Sven E Carlsson
              >
              >
              >
              > JAMEY SCOTT
              > Once again, Randy is my hero. Great work on the Incredibles! That was
              > the coolest movie I've seen in a long time. Although, I was surprised
              > to hear the SI6000 blip for the scanner droid. :P
              >
              > AIRON
              > So far I've loved each and every one of the Pixar films sound work. I
              > wonder if I'll hear a Wilhelm in this one.
              >
              > STEVE LEE
              > None that I could hear, but it would have certainly been
              > appropriate. Let me know if there is one there, Randy, and I'll put
              > it on the official list.
              >
              >
              > It is a delight. I saw it yesterday morning and was blown away.
              >
              > None that I could hear, but it would have certainly been
              > appropriate. Let me know if there is one there, Randy, and I'll put
              > it on the official list. [http://hollywoodlostandfound.net/wilhelm/%5d
              >
              > Everyone here should be aware, however, that another great
              > Randy Thom sound job is opening soon - "The Polar Express."
              > It also is a brilliant sound job, with wonderful subtleties - and a
              > deep rich mix that makes great use of split surrounds. It should
              > not be overlooked.
              >
              > JAMEY SCOTT
              > Interesting thing about Polar Express. I'm mildly interested in seeing
              > it, but my 4.5 year old son (the primary target audience) has made it
              > very clear that he has no interest in seeing it. In trying to figure
              > out how the mind of a 4.5 year old works, I pressed him to try and
              > figure out what about it he dislikes so much and he told me that he
              > doesn't like the way the people move and talk. If my son is any
              > indicator, I think the decision to go mo-cap instead of character
              > animation may have been a bad one. I must confess that I think the
              > characters all look so strange. They're all cross-eyed and their
              > mouths move as though they've got botox injections. It'll be
              > interesting to watch what happens with that one.
              >
              > RANDY THOM
              > Thanks for all the kind words. Wonderful teams of people worked on the
              > sound for both films. The foley people, me and my assistant were the
              > only ones who worked on both. No Wilhelms. To be totally honest, I'm
              > not into the Wilhelm thing myself. When Ben Burtt and Richard Anderson
              > were doing it 25 years ago it seemed cool to me, but I was never very
              > interested in inserting Wilhelms into my tracks. No problem with other
              > people doing it, of course. Wilhelm away!
              >
              >
              > ANDREW GARRISON
              > My 15-year-old son, his buddy, and I saw "The Incredibles" on opening
              > night here in Austin. The audience was completely in love with the
              > movie. I have rarely seen so many happy people talking so animatedly
              > (eek!) on their way out. I shared the same excitement. So many scenes
              > had visual and sound hat-tips, I plan to go back with my 13-year old
              > daughter, and as an excuse to just listen. My son and his friend
              > wondered if Randy used "speeder bike effects" in the scenes of Dash
              > racing away from the buzz crafts. (I was thrilled that they were even
              > thinking about sound.) I guess that makes the first question.
              >
              > So I wonder how the working relationship changed, if at all, between
              > Randy and director Brad Bird moving from "The Iron Giant" to "The
              > Incredibles." With a good experience behind them, how much of the
              > story got influenced by sound ideas and at what point?
              >
              >
              > RANDY THOM
              > No speeder bike sounds in the final movie. Funny you should mention
              > them though, because Brad DID use some of those sounds Ben Burtt did
              > for Jedi speeder bike chase in the very early temp track he put
              > together for Incredibles before I had time to generate the final
              > sounds for the velocipod chase sequence.
              >
              > The Incredibles was a much more difficult job for me than Iron Giant.
              > The number of sounds I had to generate for Incredibles was huge, and I
              > wanted as many of them as possible to be original, though there are
              > also some tips of the hat to previous movies, especially the early
              > Bond movies, as well as a few inside sound jokes. Michael Giacchino,
              > the Composer on The Incredibles, did an amazing, very original
              > sounding score, with some obvious Bond references, which is exactly
              > what Brad wanted.
              >
              > DAVE
              > Just saw the movie last night and I was completely blown away by the
              > sound design. It seemed incredibly dense. My favorites were the force
              > field, the restraint system, the "pod" race and the monstrous
              > explosion near the end. The amount of work that goes into a project
              > like this has to be huge. Does anyone know how many people were on the
              > sound team and how long it took?
              >
              >
              > RANDY THOM
              > I worked on and off (a day or two every two or three weeks) designing
              > sounds and consulting with the Director over a period of many months
              > when a lot of the animation was still very crude, and then worked
              > continuously on fabricating sounds for several weeks before I began
              > pre-mixing the effects. We had two great sound effects editors, Terry
              > Eckton and Kyrsten Comoglio (both women, by the way), who were on the
              > film for about 12 weeks, my assistant, an effects assistant, two foley
              > editors, and the foley performers, of course. Gary Rizzo and I mixed
              > the film, which took five or six weeks, depending on how you count it.
              > Obviously we also had dialog and music departments, but I assume you
              > are mainly interested in the sound effects team.¤
              >
              > Since some you apparently weren't aware of it, the great Gary
              > Rydstrom, who was the sound designer and supervising mixer on all the
              > previous Pixar films, is now preparing to direct films at Pixar. He'll
              > no doubt take a hand in designing the sound for the films he directs,
              > but he isn't a "working sound designer/mixer" anymore, and didn't work
              > on The Incredibles.
              >
              > PHILIP PERKINS
              > I got to see the film @ Pixar--it was all wonderful.
              > I was very impressed with how tasteful the use of the
              > LFE was--you really saved it for the big booms so they
              > were all the more impactful because we weren't being
              > rattled in every shot.
              >
              > You deserve a vacation--so many complicated movies
              > so fast!
              >
              >
              > E. KORETZ
              > I concur. I watched the film last sunday at the academy theater
              > screening.(a great venue) It was a very tasty job with sounds
              > perfectly matched for the visual content. It was whimsicle and quite
              > dynamic. I congratulate Randy on his contribution to a very fun film.
              >
              > THEO GLUCK
              > Having had the extreme good fortune to have been involved in all of
              > the PIXAR films it is great see the track record - on all fronts -
              > continue to amaze. Congrats indeed to Randy and Prof. Rizzo.
              >
              >
              > JOHN MCDANIEL
              > BTW, the telephone ringing in the backgound at Mr. Incredible's office
              > (right surround) was VERY convincing. People turning their head
              > convincing. Fun!
              >
              >
              > JOLLY, KENT
              > Just joining in on the general throwing of flowers :)
              >
              > The movie sounded awesome. I especially enjoyed the main characters
              > car in the beginning and the contrasting sound of the downgraded version.
              >
              >
              > RANDY THOM
              > As I mentioned on a previous post, Gary Rizzo and I mixed Incredibles
              > together, and Mr. Rizzo did an amazing job.
              >
              > Another project Gary mixed last year was Fahrenheit 9/11. He was also
              > Supervising Sound Editor on that film. I seem to remember that a
              > couple of people had questions on this group about the sound in the
              > movie. Since we know Gary is here now in this dark room with us, I'll
              > start off...
              > The explosions in Fahrenheit 9/11 were very powerful sonically and
              > emotionally. How much were you concerned with authenticity in general,
              > and with the explosions in particular? And if you feel like revealing
              > anything about how the explosions were put together I'm sure we'd be
              > fascinated to know.
              >
              >
              > LEONARDO CROATTO
              > In the terrorific weeks following 9/11/01, I was interested by a
              > question: all the people around the world watching on the TV again and
              > again the images of the crashes on the WTC but hearing something else
              > (silence, comments, voices, some kind of music -choosed by whom? why?-,
              > etc...but almost never the original explosion sounds, if eventually it
              > recording exists).
              >
              > I started to pay specific attention to the sound of TV-News in such
              > circumstances (war, violence -in Argentine, in Venezuela-, bombing on
              > Afghanistan, Bagdad, etc).
              >
              > Months later I wrote an article on this topic and presented it in a
              > Communication Meeting in Puerto Rico, with a surprising lot of people
              > interested about.
              >
              > When I heard at the radio about the scene of Michael Moore´s
              > Fahrenheit9/11, where the WTC attack has no image but only sound, I
              > felt it as a coincident answer to my original question. It was very
              > impressive.
              >
              > Now, reading the Randy question to Rizzo, I am really asking me again
              > the same unanswered questions about authenticity and emotional
              > implication of sound in such kind of situations, in the News, in the
              > fiction (where the audiences perception is trained to look and hear
              > "real", "actual", explosions) and trying to go deep in the analysis of
              > sound functions in the Audiovisual Communication...maybe this is a
              > topic of some list-people interest, maybe someone has developed some
              > ideas on it that want to share...
            • earcircus
              Thanks, Ricardo, on behalf of the many people who worked very hard on The Incredibles track. As I always say, though, a film has to be designed for sound
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 19, 2005
                Thanks, Ricardo, on behalf of the many people who worked very hard on The
                Incredibles' track. As I always say, though, a film has to be designed for sound
                before it is possible to successfully design sound for the film. So in this case Brad
                Bird deserves lots of the credit.

                Randy



                --- In sound-article-list@yahoogroups.com, "ricardo_cutz" <azulmetalico@g...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi!
                >
                > I just came in today, feb 18. I was in Brazil and work with movies to.
                > Hello everybody!
                >
                > I want to say, what amazing sound on the incridibles!!!
                > Rhandy! It`s simple out of control!!!
                >
                > Incredible how the ambiences works, footsteps, reverbration...
                >
                > How this kind of concern appears in such kind of work?
                > Attetion to realism, creativity?
                >
                > Thanks
                > Ricardo Cutz
                >
                > PS: sorry for my english mistakes
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In sound-article-list@yahoogroups.com, "svenecarlsson" <svene.carlsson@f...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > Sally wrote
                > > > I've got a bit confused by this last thread.
                > >
                > > It is an excerpt from Incredibles questions thread at sound_design group
                > >
                > > Here is another excerpt. (It is not the complete thread)
                > > //Sven E Carlsson
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > JAMEY SCOTT
                > > Once again, Randy is my hero. Great work on the Incredibles! That was
                > > the coolest movie I've seen in a long time. Although, I was surprised
                > > to hear the SI6000 blip for the scanner droid. :P
                > >
                > > AIRON
                > > So far I've loved each and every one of the Pixar films sound work. I
                > > wonder if I'll hear a Wilhelm in this one.
                > >
                > > STEVE LEE
                > > None that I could hear, but it would have certainly been
                > > appropriate. Let me know if there is one there, Randy, and I'll put
                > > it on the official list.
                > >
                > >
                > > It is a delight. I saw it yesterday morning and was blown away.
                > >
                > > None that I could hear, but it would have certainly been
                > > appropriate. Let me know if there is one there, Randy, and I'll put
                > > it on the official list. [http://hollywoodlostandfound.net/wilhelm/%5d
                > >
                > > Everyone here should be aware, however, that another great
                > > Randy Thom sound job is opening soon - "The Polar Express."
                > > It also is a brilliant sound job, with wonderful subtleties - and a
                > > deep rich mix that makes great use of split surrounds. It should
                > > not be overlooked.
                > >
                > > JAMEY SCOTT
                > > Interesting thing about Polar Express. I'm mildly interested in seeing
                > > it, but my 4.5 year old son (the primary target audience) has made it
                > > very clear that he has no interest in seeing it. In trying to figure
                > > out how the mind of a 4.5 year old works, I pressed him to try and
                > > figure out what about it he dislikes so much and he told me that he
                > > doesn't like the way the people move and talk. If my son is any
                > > indicator, I think the decision to go mo-cap instead of character
                > > animation may have been a bad one. I must confess that I think the
                > > characters all look so strange. They're all cross-eyed and their
                > > mouths move as though they've got botox injections. It'll be
                > > interesting to watch what happens with that one.
                > >
                > > RANDY THOM
                > > Thanks for all the kind words. Wonderful teams of people worked on the
                > > sound for both films. The foley people, me and my assistant were the
                > > only ones who worked on both. No Wilhelms. To be totally honest, I'm
                > > not into the Wilhelm thing myself. When Ben Burtt and Richard Anderson
                > > were doing it 25 years ago it seemed cool to me, but I was never very
                > > interested in inserting Wilhelms into my tracks. No problem with other
                > > people doing it, of course. Wilhelm away!
                > >
                > >
                > > ANDREW GARRISON
                > > My 15-year-old son, his buddy, and I saw "The Incredibles" on opening
                > > night here in Austin. The audience was completely in love with the
                > > movie. I have rarely seen so many happy people talking so animatedly
                > > (eek!) on their way out. I shared the same excitement. So many scenes
                > > had visual and sound hat-tips, I plan to go back with my 13-year old
                > > daughter, and as an excuse to just listen. My son and his friend
                > > wondered if Randy used "speeder bike effects" in the scenes of Dash
                > > racing away from the buzz crafts. (I was thrilled that they were even
                > > thinking about sound.) I guess that makes the first question.
                > >
                > > So I wonder how the working relationship changed, if at all, between
                > > Randy and director Brad Bird moving from "The Iron Giant" to "The
                > > Incredibles." With a good experience behind them, how much of the
                > > story got influenced by sound ideas and at what point?
                > >
                > >
                > > RANDY THOM
                > > No speeder bike sounds in the final movie. Funny you should mention
                > > them though, because Brad DID use some of those sounds Ben Burtt did
                > > for Jedi speeder bike chase in the very early temp track he put
                > > together for Incredibles before I had time to generate the final
                > > sounds for the velocipod chase sequence.
                > >
                > > The Incredibles was a much more difficult job for me than Iron Giant.
                > > The number of sounds I had to generate for Incredibles was huge, and I
                > > wanted as many of them as possible to be original, though there are
                > > also some tips of the hat to previous movies, especially the early
                > > Bond movies, as well as a few inside sound jokes. Michael Giacchino,
                > > the Composer on The Incredibles, did an amazing, very original
                > > sounding score, with some obvious Bond references, which is exactly
                > > what Brad wanted.
                > >
                > > DAVE
                > > Just saw the movie last night and I was completely blown away by the
                > > sound design. It seemed incredibly dense. My favorites were the force
                > > field, the restraint system, the "pod" race and the monstrous
                > > explosion near the end. The amount of work that goes into a project
                > > like this has to be huge. Does anyone know how many people were on the
                > > sound team and how long it took?
                > >
                > >
                > > RANDY THOM
                > > I worked on and off (a day or two every two or three weeks) designing
                > > sounds and consulting with the Director over a period of many months
                > > when a lot of the animation was still very crude, and then worked
                > > continuously on fabricating sounds for several weeks before I began
                > > pre-mixing the effects. We had two great sound effects editors, Terry
                > > Eckton and Kyrsten Comoglio (both women, by the way), who were on the
                > > film for about 12 weeks, my assistant, an effects assistant, two foley
                > > editors, and the foley performers, of course. Gary Rizzo and I mixed
                > > the film, which took five or six weeks, depending on how you count it.
                > > Obviously we also had dialog and music departments, but I assume you
                > > are mainly interested in the sound effects team.¤
                > >
                > > Since some you apparently weren't aware of it, the great Gary
                > > Rydstrom, who was the sound designer and supervising mixer on all the
                > > previous Pixar films, is now preparing to direct films at Pixar. He'll
                > > no doubt take a hand in designing the sound for the films he directs,
                > > but he isn't a "working sound designer/mixer" anymore, and didn't work
                > > on The Incredibles.
                > >
                > > PHILIP PERKINS
                > > I got to see the film @ Pixar--it was all wonderful.
                > > I was very impressed with how tasteful the use of the
                > > LFE was--you really saved it for the big booms so they
                > > were all the more impactful because we weren't being
                > > rattled in every shot.
                > >
                > > You deserve a vacation--so many complicated movies
                > > so fast!
                > >
                > >
                > > E. KORETZ
                > > I concur. I watched the film last sunday at the academy theater
                > > screening.(a great venue) It was a very tasty job with sounds
                > > perfectly matched for the visual content. It was whimsicle and quite
                > > dynamic. I congratulate Randy on his contribution to a very fun film.
                > >
                > > THEO GLUCK
                > > Having had the extreme good fortune to have been involved in all of
                > > the PIXAR films it is great see the track record - on all fronts -
                > > continue to amaze. Congrats indeed to Randy and Prof. Rizzo.
                > >
                > >
                > > JOHN MCDANIEL
                > > BTW, the telephone ringing in the backgound at Mr. Incredible's office
                > > (right surround) was VERY convincing. People turning their head
                > > convincing. Fun!
                > >
                > >
                > > JOLLY, KENT
                > > Just joining in on the general throwing of flowers :)
                > >
                > > The movie sounded awesome. I especially enjoyed the main characters
                > > car in the beginning and the contrasting sound of the downgraded version.
                > >
                > >
                > > RANDY THOM
                > > As I mentioned on a previous post, Gary Rizzo and I mixed Incredibles
                > > together, and Mr. Rizzo did an amazing job.
                > >
                > > Another project Gary mixed last year was Fahrenheit 9/11. He was also
                > > Supervising Sound Editor on that film. I seem to remember that a
                > > couple of people had questions on this group about the sound in the
                > > movie. Since we know Gary is here now in this dark room with us, I'll
                > > start off...
                > > The explosions in Fahrenheit 9/11 were very powerful sonically and
                > > emotionally. How much were you concerned with authenticity in general,
                > > and with the explosions in particular? And if you feel like revealing
                > > anything about how the explosions were put together I'm sure we'd be
                > > fascinated to know.
                > >
                > >
                > > LEONARDO CROATTO
                > > In the terrorific weeks following 9/11/01, I was interested by a
                > > question: all the people around the world watching on the TV again and
                > > again the images of the crashes on the WTC but hearing something else
                > > (silence, comments, voices, some kind of music -choosed by whom? why?-,
                > > etc...but almost never the original explosion sounds, if eventually it
                > > recording exists).
                > >
                > > I started to pay specific attention to the sound of TV-News in such
                > > circumstances (war, violence -in Argentine, in Venezuela-, bombing on
                > > Afghanistan, Bagdad, etc).
                > >
                > > Months later I wrote an article on this topic and presented it in a
                > > Communication Meeting in Puerto Rico, with a surprising lot of people
                > > interested about.
                > >
                > > When I heard at the radio about the scene of Michael Moore´s
                > > Fahrenheit9/11, where the WTC attack has no image but only sound, I
                > > felt it as a coincident answer to my original question. It was very
                > > impressive.
                > >
                > > Now, reading the Randy question to Rizzo, I am really asking me again
                > > the same unanswered questions about authenticity and emotional
                > > implication of sound in such kind of situations, in the News, in the
                > > fiction (where the audiences perception is trained to look and hear
                > > "real", "actual", explosions) and trying to go deep in the analysis of
                > > sound functions in the Audiovisual Communication...maybe this is a
                > > topic of some list-people interest, maybe someone has developed some
                > > ideas on it that want to share...
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