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Beyond 184

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  • Nigel Kitching
    Well I promised to give everyone some idea of what I had in mind for STC. I figured that after that ten issue run it would be time for a shorter tighter little
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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      Well I promised to give everyone some idea of what I had in mind for STC.

      I figured that after that ten issue run it would be time for a shorter
      tighter little plot and I had in mind bringing the Floating Island back.
      This would tie into that little scene with Porker at some controls just
      before the Island went down.

      In this scene what Porker was actually doing was diverting some of the
      Floating Island's power into maintaining a force field. In this way the
      Island would have been protected from damage as is crashed into the sea. The
      force field is still functioning and keeping the water off the Island.

      But why has Porker kept quite about this? I figure that his plan was a
      desperate one and he wasn't at all sure it would work - he didn't want to
      get Knuckles' hopes up only to dash them again.

      In the meantime Porker has been trying to establish a link with the Floating
      Island and my story may well have begun with him running out of his lab in a
      excited state just having made contact and established that the Island is
      still in one piece with the force field still functioning.

      The problem was going to be how to raise the Island. The idea being that it
      was in water far too deep to get to. The solution to this was going to be
      finding some way of remotely activating the Island robots and have them
      piloting the thing to the surface in some way.

      Richard mentioned some idea about Sonic encountering some undersea race at
      some point and we were just starting to talk about how undersea races don't
      really work and why and what we could so about that. We thought that the way
      it was done in the latest Star Wars film was quite successful but I still
      think that we would have needed to think of a good angle on this - something
      with a bit of a surprise in it. Maybe this undersea race have some
      connection to the Drakon Empire? I dunno.

      Seems to me that it would have been interesting to show Knuckles in a pretty
      depressed state at the start of the story. He's be sat there with his
      Emeralds but without any use for them.



      On a quite different thread it seems to me that Big would have caught that
      Prosecutor before the crocs got to him and it would have been fun to see
      what relationship he would have had with a talking fish. This talking fish
      would be quite able to get down to the sunken Floating Island, of course.
      But his biggest need would be to have a new encounter suit built and make
      contact with his people. Maybe he cons Big into helping him.


      Then I had some idea that Doctor Zachary had been on the Island all this
      time and we'd have to come up with some stuff about how he was coping.

      Speaking of Zacahary I had some vague idea that he knew about a bunch of
      other Echidnas that were still held in suspended animation deep within the
      Island somewhere. I thought that maybe these were all criminals and Zachary
      planned to revive them and take over the Island. Maybe it would be better if
      only some of them were baddies though. Maybe one of them is Tikal - this
      would be a handier way of getting her into the series than all that time
      travel stuff. Tikal would be a useful character in that she would know more
      about Echidna history than Knuckles. She still wouldn't know about the
      eventual fate of the Echidnas - what she would know would depend on just
      when she was frozen. It might be many years after Knuckles was done and for
      quite different reasons. She could be an old woman even. Probably best if
      she isn't though.



      I also figured that Death Trap haven't given up their hunt - they pride
      themselves on not giving up. At some point they would catch up with Sonic -
      we'd have to figure out a way for them to have gotten out of the cruel fate
      that Lew wrote for them though.


      Also I had in mind writing a scene to show the shift in Sonic's personality.
      Sonic is still totally reckless where his own safety is concerned but he now
      has a real problem letting any of his gang risk themselves. So we would have
      a scene, perhaps, where Sonic keeps the whole truth of a dangerous situation
      away from his team putting himself into a ridiculously perilous position.

      After a suitable period of time I'm sure I would have gone back to finishing
      off the story of the Echidna/Drakon war. I think I would have had Sonic go
      back into the past but to a time well after the period where the first story
      took place. Pachamacomaamcc would have been long dead and Tikal nowhere to
      be seen. But by this point she would have been introduced into the cast and
      she would be travelling into the past along with Sonic. In this story one of
      the key scenes would be the time that the Floating Island rose up into the
      sky for the first time. This whole plot is pretty complicated and I'm not
      sure quite what I would do. We'd need to see Knuckles put into suspended
      animation I guess but I'm not sure I ever quite worked out the eventual fate
      of the Echidnas. Obviously they prevented the Drakons getting away with the
      Chaos energy - at least in its stable form (being contained in the Chaos
      Emeralds). But it's obvious they lost the war. I had in mind at one point
      that the Echidnas were basically enslaved by the Drakons. In this way the
      race still exists but it is spread across the galaxy. I guess we could draw
      parallels with African slaves in America. Perhaps, like these slaves, they
      told there own folk tales of the distant past - Brer Knuckles and mean old
      Brer Chaos. Brer Knuckles And The Wonderful Tar Emerald. Hmmm, I wonder if
      anyone knows what I'm talking about...


      Then we have the question of the fate of Super Sonic. It seems obvious to me
      that Ebony was up to something - she didn't seem to be in the least bit
      concerned to see the demise of her friend. She's let Sonic think her spell
      sent him back into Sonic so things had become as they were in the past. But
      myself I don't think that this is what actually happened. She obviously has
      some plan to get her friend back. All we can be sure of is what we saw.
      Maybe, on the final page, what Ebony did was absorb Super Sonic into
      herself. maybe that was her plan all along - get Super Sonic to the Chaos
      Energy, recharge him and then hide him by absorbing him. The plan almost
      went wrong when Super Sonic turned evil.


      Then we have Robotnik and Grimer. Grimer has really quit this time. The
      thing about Grimer that nobody seemed to pick up on was the fact that he was
      pathologically loyal. He wasn't 'Robotnik's cowardly sidekick a slimy
      weakling who only cares about one thing - saving his own skin'. Grimer was
      totally loyal to Robotnik and would probably have laid down his life to save
      his master. Now that he has been force into seeing that is master is insane
      Grimer will be in a terrible state - a state of bereavement.

      Robotnik will probably be in a catatonic state in an asylum somewhere. I
      think his ruling over Mobius days are over but maybe the Drakon Empire might
      still have a use for him.

      I think that will do for now.

      Any questions?

      Nigel
    • Ron
      ... Yes, unfortunately.. And hmm, it sounds like the quality of plot would have stayed at the same level as the last issue, altho it d seem weird seeing
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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        Nigel:
        >Perhaps, like these slaves, they
        >told there own folk tales of the distant past - Brer Knuckles and mean old
        >Brer Chaos. Brer Knuckles And The Wonderful Tar Emerald. Hmmm, I wonder if
        >anyone knows what I'm talking about...

        Yes, unfortunately..

        And hmm, it sounds like the quality of plot would have stayed at the same
        level as the last issue, altho it'd seem weird seeing something after that
        superb ending panel.

        Mister Ron Echidna
        jarrett@...
        (anti-spam, remove my pants to email me)
        ********
        http://stealth.emulationzone.org/ron
      • Dean Rivers
        ... From: Nigel Kitching To: Sent: 6 July 2000 08:55 Subject: Beyond 184
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Nigel Kitching" <nigel@...>
          To: <sonicthecomic@egroups.com>
          Sent: 6 July 2000 08:55
          Subject: Beyond 184


          <<I figured that after that ten issue run it would be time for a shorter
          tighter little plot and I had in mind bringing the Floating Island back...
          seems to me that it would have been interesting to show Knuckles in a pretty
          depressed state at the start of the story. He's be sat there with his
          Emeralds but without any use for them.>>

          This could have been a nice idea, but I wouldn't have been certain about
          bringing the subject up immediately - I'd have preferred to actually see
          Knuckles real depressed for a couple of issues.

          I mean, for what he is, Knuckles was essentially an outsider - he always tried
          to guard the Island, and wasn't overly pleased with intruders. And in the same
          way Sonic changed when Johnny died, Knuckles, knowing his sole remembrance of
          his heritage was on that island, under the ocean, would have changed too.

          <<On a quite different thread it seems to me that Big would have caught that
          Prosecutor... maybe he cons Big into helping him.>>

          I'm not sure about this one - maybe the Prosecutor (as a fish) could trigger
          the uprising of the Island by trying to pillage something from the Emerald
          Chamber... whilst swimming around, he hits a switch - then maybe Porker could
          run about, thinking he'd make the Island rise and boosting his low confidence.

          <<Then I had some idea that Doctor Zachary had been on the Island all this
          time and we'd have to come up with some stuff about how he was coping.>>

          Would have been nice to see him. But, of all the STC-O stories, I expect DZ to
          be one of the characters to make a comeback (along with Nack, I suppose, if
          Sel has anything to do with it).

          <<Speaking of Zacahary I had some vague idea that he knew about a bunch of
          other Echidnas that were still held in suspended animation deep within the
          Island somewhere.>>

          Hm, I'm not keen on this idea. There are characters about already that can
          potentially team up with DZ, like the gang with Greek letters for each member.

          Maybe Knuckles finds Tikal or Pochacamocha. Of all the Echidnas, they'd be the
          ones most surprised to find only one or two echidna live in the future.

          Besides, DZ is a power-mad chap; he'd probably leave any other echidnas he
          finds as is - if awoken, they might be threats to his plan of domination.

          <<I also figured that Death Trap haven't given up their hunt - they pride
          themselves on not giving up. At some point they would catch up with Sonic -
          we'd have to figure out a way for them to have gotten out of the cruel fate
          that Lew wrote for them though.>>

          I'd be more interested in seeing how you got them out of that situation Lew
          got them in that seeing them after Sonic. I mean, it would take quite a bit of
          work to make a feasible reason as to how they had got out of that predicament.

          <<Also I had in mind writing a scene to show the shift in Sonic's personality.
          Sonic is still totally reckless where his own safety is concerned but he now
          has a real problem letting any of his gang risk themselves. So we would have
          a scene, perhaps, where Sonic keeps the whole truth of a dangerous situation
          away from his team putting himself into a ridiculously perilous position.>>

          I would have loved this... you can imagine Sonic acting like this too - this
          would have been real nice to see.

          <<After a suitable period of time I'm sure I would have gone back to finishing
          off the story of the Echidna/Drakon war. I think I would have had Sonic go
          back into the past but to a time well after the period where the first story
          took place. Pachamacomaamcc would have been long dead and Tikal nowhere to
          be seen. But by this point she would have been introduced into the cast and
          she would be travelling into the past along with Sonic.>>

          Well, I was thinking - you've potentially merged Sonic back with Super Sonic,
          but in a way that means he could turn Super when he's slightly annoyed - like
          the "Running Wild" era. I think it would have been ironic if Sonic somehow
          went Super in the past and destroyed a large section of the Echidna
          empire/Floating Island, after helping them win their war.

          <<Then we have the question of the fate of Super Sonic. It seems obvious to
          me that Ebony was up to something - she didn't seem to be in the least bit
          concerned to see the demise of her friend. She's let Sonic think her spell
          sent him back into Sonic so things had become as they were in the past. But
          myself I don't think that this is what actually happened. She obviously has
          some plan to get her friend back. All we can be sure of is what we saw.
          Maybe, on the final page, what Ebony did was absorb Super Sonic into
          herself. maybe that was her plan all along - get Super Sonic to the Chaos
          Energy, recharge him and then hide him by absorbing him. The plan almost
          went wrong when Super Sonic turned evil.>>

          This does mean a possibility of an evil, magic-knowing 'Super Ebony'?

          That'd be something to see.

          <<Grimer will be in a terrible state - a state of bereavement.>>

          Any plans as to if he becomes neutral in further fights, if you were thinking
          of grouping him up with Sonic and gang at a later date?

          <<Robotnik will probably be in a catatonic state in an asylum somewhere. I
          think his ruling over Mobius days are over but maybe the Drakon Empire might
          still have a use for him.>>

          Robotnik looked a wreck - I'd imagine the only place he'd end up is in an
          asylum somewhere, or wandering round in a defeated state with Mobians shouting
          at him.

          The only way I could see him trying to return to destroy Sonic would be if
          every Mobian tried to attack him because of the things he initially did to
          them. Eventually, all the rage and being bullied would warp him further.
          Possibly to even more of a 'fraidy-cat', or maybe back to the stage where he
          was really annoyed with everything and contemplating how to destroy Mobius.

          I dunno, I find it's hard to imagine Robotnik being in the stories without
          being a ruthless villain.


          Well, that's all the ideas I can think of...

          --
          Dean
        • Stephen Corker
          ... Yay!!! ... The ... So we were right! ... Knuckles = Tragedy Maybe the Island should be partly decimated by the time they get it up, that would be in
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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            >Well I promised to give everyone some idea of what I had in mind for STC.

            Yay!!!

            >I figured that after that ten issue run it would be time for a shorter
            >tighter little plot and I had in mind bringing the Floating Island back.
            >This would tie into that little scene with Porker at some controls just
            >before the Island went down.
            >
            >In this scene what Porker was actually doing was diverting some of the
            >Floating Island's power into maintaining a force field. In this way the
            >Island would have been protected from damage as is crashed into the sea.
            The
            >force field is still functioning and keeping the water off the Island.

            So we were right!

            >But why has Porker kept quite about this? I figure that his plan was a
            >desperate one and he wasn't at all sure it would work - he didn't want to
            >get Knuckles' hopes up only to dash them again.

            Knuckles = Tragedy
            Maybe the Island should be partly decimated by the time they get it up, that
            would be in keeping with the Knuckles motif I think. :D

            >In the meantime Porker has been trying to establish a link with the
            Floating
            >Island and my story may well have begun with him running out of his lab in
            a
            >excited state just having made contact and established that the Island is
            >still in one piece with the force field still functioning.
            >
            >The problem was going to be how to raise the Island. The idea being that it
            >was in water far too deep to get to. The solution to this was going to be
            >finding some way of remotely activating the Island robots and have them
            >piloting the thing to the surface in some way.

            That would have made (and still can make) a great looking double page
            spread...

            >Richard mentioned some idea about Sonic encountering some undersea race at
            >some point and we were just starting to talk about how undersea races don't
            >really work and why and what we could so about that. We thought that the
            way
            >it was done in the latest Star Wars film was quite successful but I still
            >think that we would have needed to think of a good angle on this -
            something
            >with a bit of a surprise in it. Maybe this undersea race have some
            >connection to the Drakon Empire? I dunno.

            Yes, I had an idea that the Drakons would have to be involved in some way, I
            even included Big and the Pros there too!

            >Seems to me that it would have been interesting to show Knuckles in a
            pretty
            >depressed state at the start of the story. He's be sat there with his
            >Emeralds but without any use for them.

            I had a thought about Grimer stealing the 3 Emeralds that were not seen in
            #184 and having Knuckles on the trail, then finding out Grimer sold two of
            them on, one to Nack...

            >On a quite different thread it seems to me that Big would have caught that
            >Prosecutor before the crocs got to him and it would have been fun to see
            >what relationship he would have had with a talking fish. This talking fish
            >would be quite able to get down to the sunken Floating Island, of course.
            >But his biggest need would be to have a new encounter suit built and make
            >contact with his people. Maybe he cons Big into helping him.

            Great minds... :)

            >Then I had some idea that Doctor Zachary had been on the Island all this
            >time and we'd have to come up with some stuff about how he was coping.

            Ooh, neat. I guess the Island can't be partly destroyed though, shame... ;)

            >Speaking of Zacahary I had some vague idea that he knew about a bunch of
            >other Echidnas that were still held in suspended animation deep within the
            >Island somewhere. I thought that maybe these were all criminals and Zachary
            >planned to revive them and take over the Island. Maybe it would be better
            if
            >only some of them were baddies though. Maybe one of them is Tikal - this
            >would be a handier way of getting her into the series than all that time
            >travel stuff. Tikal would be a useful character in that she would know more
            >about Echidna history than Knuckles. She still wouldn't know about the
            >eventual fate of the Echidnas - what she would know would depend on just
            >when she was frozen. It might be many years after Knuckles was done and for
            >quite different reasons. She could be an old woman even. Probably best if
            >she isn't though.

            That would be great, I've been wanting Tikal to arrive in the present day,
            but she can' be too old, she'd have to have been put in cryo only a year or
            so after the war started so she's pretty much the same person.

            >I also figured that Death Trap haven't given up their hunt - they pride
            >themselves on not giving up. At some point they would catch up with Sonic -
            >we'd have to figure out a way for them to have gotten out of the cruel fate
            >that Lew wrote for them though.

            I never saw Death Trap... :'(

            >Also I had in mind writing a scene to show the shift in Sonic's
            personality.
            >Sonic is still totally reckless where his own safety is concerned but he
            now
            >has a real problem letting any of his gang risk themselves. So we would
            have
            >a scene, perhaps, where Sonic keeps the whole truth of a dangerous
            situation
            >away from his team putting himself into a ridiculously perilous position.

            Yeah, his personality change was too subtle in the 10 part, but that wasn't
            necessarily a bad thing considering all the other things that were going on.

            >After a suitable period of time I'm sure I would have gone back to
            finishing
            >off the story of the Echidna/Drakon war. I think I would have had Sonic go
            >back into the past but to a time well after the period where the first
            story
            >took place. Pachamacomaamcc would have been long dead and Tikal nowhere to
            >be seen. But by this point she would have been introduced into the cast and
            >she would be travelling into the past along with Sonic. In this story one
            of
            >the key scenes would be the time that the Floating Island rose up into the
            >sky for the first time. This whole plot is pretty complicated and I'm not
            >sure quite what I would do. We'd need to see Knuckles put into suspended
            >animation I guess but I'm not sure I ever quite worked out the eventual
            fate
            >of the Echidnas. Obviously they prevented the Drakons getting away with the
            >Chaos energy - at least in its stable form (being contained in the Chaos
            >Emeralds). But it's obvious they lost the war. I had in mind at one point
            >that the Echidnas were basically enslaved by the Drakons. In this way the
            >race still exists but it is spread across the galaxy. I guess we could draw
            >parallels with African slaves in America. Perhaps, like these slaves, they
            >told there own folk tales of the distant past - Brer Knuckles and mean old
            >Brer Chaos. Brer Knuckles And The Wonderful Tar Emerald. Hmmm, I wonder if
            >anyone knows what I'm talking about...

            Huh? *scratches head*...

            >Then we have the question of the fate of Super Sonic. It seems obvious to
            me
            >that Ebony was up to something - she didn't seem to be in the least bit
            >concerned to see the demise of her friend. She's let Sonic think her spell
            >sent him back into Sonic so things had become as they were in the past. But
            >myself I don't think that this is what actually happened. She obviously has
            >some plan to get her friend back. All we can be sure of is what we saw.
            >Maybe, on the final page, what Ebony did was absorb Super Sonic into
            >herself. maybe that was her plan all along - get Super Sonic to the Chaos
            >Energy, recharge him and then hide him by absorbing him. The plan almost
            >went wrong when Super Sonic turned evil.

            Um, so Ebony was using Super to recharge herself?
            I don't really know Ebony as I only have the original story with her in
            (Knuckles - "Roots").

            >Then we have Robotnik and Grimer. Grimer has really quit this time. The
            >thing about Grimer that nobody seemed to pick up on was the fact that he
            was
            >pathologically loyal. He wasn't 'Robotnik's cowardly sidekick a slimy
            >weakling who only cares about one thing - saving his own skin'. Grimer was
            >totally loyal to Robotnik and would probably have laid down his life to
            save
            >his master. Now that he has been force into seeing that is master is insane
            >Grimer will be in a terrible state - a state of bereavement.

            Good point, I'd always thought that if he had his own ambitions why does he
            keep running back to Robotnik. Didn't Andy Diggle consult you about any of
            the character descriptions at all?

            >Robotnik will probably be in a catatonic state in an asylum somewhere. I
            >think his ruling over Mobius days are over but maybe the Drakon Empire
            might
            >still have a use for him.

            You like using Drakons don't you... :)

            >I think that will do for now.

            aw... :(

            >Any questions?

            Yes! Will you write them for us?!?

            Mike
            The SegaSonic Online Comic;
            http://members.aol.com/TheSonicStory/frames.htm
          • Ed Reynolds
            Hey Nigel! Big thanks for taking the time to share this stuff with the list. For some reason, Outlook won t attach regular quotes to this message, so it s
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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              Hey Nigel! Big thanks for taking the time to share this stuff with the list.

              For some reason, Outlook won't attach regular quotes to this message, so
              it's going to be the standard <<>> marks I'm afraid...

              <<I figured that after that ten issue run it would be time for a shorter
              tighter little plot and I had in mind bringing the Floating Island back.>>

              When you say a shorter, tighter little plot - was this something you would
              suggest to Andy Diggle? That is, did you actually have any power to affect
              this decision?

              In this scene what Porker was actually doing was diverting some of the
              Floating Island's power into maintaining a force field. In this way the
              Island would have been protected from damage as is crashed into the sea. The
              force field is still functioning and keeping the water off the Island.

              <<In the meantime Porker has been trying to establish a link with the
              Floating
              Island and my story may well have begun with him running out of his lab in a
              excited state just having made contact and established that the Island is
              still in one piece with the force field still functioning.>>

              It might be nice at this point if the forcefield was weakening and without
              the Chaos Emeralds the guys had a set amount of time before it gave out
              completely. Imagine if they were really stupid and sent the Emeralds down to
              return to the Emerald chamber - to be received by Doctor Zachary. :) Maybe
              not though.

              <<Richard mentioned some idea about Sonic encountering some undersea race at
              some point and we were just starting to talk about how undersea races don't
              really work and why and what we could so about that. We thought that the way
              it was done in the latest Star Wars film was quite successful but I still
              think that we would have needed to think of a good angle on this - something
              with a bit of a surprise in it. Maybe this undersea race have some
              connection to the Drakon Empire? I dunno.>>

              Think back to "Flickies' Island" and "The Evil Empire". Here it was
              established that Flickies' Island was an outpost for the Drakons if the
              people ever became advanced enough to use the technology to activate the
              Mobius Ring. Perhaps originally there were guardians left by the Drakons,
              but not just the Master Sentinel of issue 29 - actual Prosecutors. These
              however were left for thousands of years and lost responsibility. This would
              be a great contrast to Knuckles who has a similar responsibility but sticks
              by it, whereas the Drakons would abandon their ideas and colonise in the
              sea. Perhaps now they see themselves as having next to no connection with
              the Drakons, in a similar way to the Norman invasion of Britain not making
              the Brits feel closely with the French.

              But these Drakons still had a lot of the technology inherited so they'd be
              pretty smart cookies. But as the #111 Prosecutor said, their race came from
              the sea so they had no problems fitting in.

              <<Speaking of Zacahary I had some vague idea that he knew about a bunch of
              other Echidnas that were still held in suspended animation deep within the
              Island somewhere. I thought that maybe these were all criminals and Zachary
              planned to revive them and take over the Island. Maybe it would be better if
              only some of them were baddies though. Maybe one of them is Tikal - this
              would be a handier way of getting her into the series than all that time
              travel stuff. Tikal would be a useful character in that she would know more
              about Echidna history than Knuckles.>>

              Although this would be a more logical explanation, it would be nice to tie
              Tikal in with Chaos. In the game, her spirit is trapped in the Master
              Emerald along with Chaos'. Maybe some tie along these lines would be
              interesting.

              << She still wouldn't know about the
              eventual fate of the Echidnas - what she would know would depend on just
              when she was frozen. It might be many years after Knuckles was done and for
              quite different reasons. She could be an old woman even. Probably best if
              she isn't though.>>

              This would lose the link to the game unfortunately. I think it would be
              quite nice if she was linked to the imprisonment of Chaos between pages 3
              and (presumably) 7 of "War of the Worlds".

              <<I also figured that Death Trap haven't given up their hunt - they pride
              themselves on not giving up. At some point they would catch up with Sonic -
              we'd have to figure out a way for them to have gotten out of the cruel fate
              that Lew wrote for them though.>>

              YES!!! These guys are fantastic. ^_^

              I figure that Nack's an opportunist; he's probably pillaged loadsa stuff
              from his time on Shanazar. Perhaps he thinks that he has a good reason to
              revive them.

              <<Also I had in mind writing a scene to show the shift in Sonic's
              personality.
              Sonic is still totally reckless where his own safety is concerned but he now
              has a real problem letting any of his gang risk themselves. So we would have
              a scene, perhaps, where Sonic keeps the whole truth of a dangerous situation
              away from his team putting himself into a ridiculously perilous position.>>

              This is a gorgeous idea.


              << We'd need to see Knuckles put into suspended
              animation I guess but I'm not sure I ever quite worked out the eventual fate
              of the Echidnas.>>

              How could this be done in this time zone if his contemporaries are dead? It
              would be more practical to have this as a Tikal flashback.

              <<Then we have the question of the fate of Super Sonic. It seems obvious to
              me that Ebony was up to something - she didn't seem to be in the least bit
              concerned to see the demise of her friend. She's let Sonic think her spell
              sent him back into Sonic so things had become as they were in the past. But
              myself I don't think that this is what actually happened. She obviously has
              some plan to get her friend back. All we can be sure of is what we saw.
              Maybe, on the final page, what Ebony did was absorb Super Sonic into
              herself. maybe that was her plan all along - get Super Sonic to the Chaos
              Energy, recharge him and then hide him by absorbing him. The plan almost
              went wrong when Super Sonic turned evil.>>

              Having Super actually absorbed into Ebony doesn't really correlate with the
              way Richard has drawn it (Super turns back into Sonic). But maybe Ebony had
              this as her back-up plan but is convinced that by some form of exorcism she
              can extract the good of Super again. Except perhaps there are many layers of
              Super's personality all jumbled together in -- literally -- chaos.

              <<Then we have Robotnik and Grimer. Grimer has really quit this time. The
              thing about Grimer that nobody seemed to pick up on was the fact that he was
              pathologically loyal. He wasn't 'Robotnik's cowardly sidekick a slimy
              weakling who only cares about one thing - saving his own skin'. Grimer was
              totally loyal to Robotnik and would probably have laid down his life to save
              his master. Now that he has been force into seeing that is master is insane
              Grimer will be in a terrible state - a state of bereavement.>>

              Did you ever consider how you would show this? (In itself it doesn't do an
              awful lot).

              <<Robotnik will probably be in a catatonic state in an asylum somewhere. I
              think his ruling over Mobius days are over but maybe the Drakon Empire might
              still have a use for him.>>

              From the way you've said this, Saruman at the end of "Lord of the Rings"
              springs to mind; still capable of mischief in some small, mean way.

              Ed
            • Ron
              ... From: Ed Reynolds To: sonicthecomic@egroups.com Date: 06 July 2000 18:06 Subject: Re: Beyond 184 ... I
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ed Reynolds <ed.reynolds@...>
                To: sonicthecomic@egroups.com <sonicthecomic@egroups.com>
                Date: 06 July 2000 18:06
                Subject: Re: Beyond 184



                >Although this would be a more logical explanation, it would be nice to tie
                >Tikal in with Chaos. In the game, her spirit is trapped in the Master
                >Emerald along with Chaos'. Maybe some tie along these lines would be
                >interesting.

                >This would lose the link to the game unfortunately. I think it would be
                >quite nice if she was linked to the imprisonment of Chaos between pages 3
                >and (presumably) 7 of "War of the Worlds".


                I kinda figured that Pochamocac or whatever had absorbed Chaos into himself
                or something, therefore the "ancient prison", which looked like a box for
                ashes, would've been Pochamocac's remains, and they were locked away after
                his death to stop Chaos eventually escaping when the water-like substance
                seeped out. Or something. Actually, I'd really like to see a "Jedi-pyre" for
                Pocham.. thingy, sorta like Darth Vader at then end of Return of the Jedi
                (and Qui-Gon, I know). That'd be cool.

                >From the way you've said this, Saruman at the end of "Lord of the Rings"
                >springs to mind; still capable of mischief in some small, mean way.

                That's exactly what I thought! After all, what would've happened to Emerald
                Hill recently?

                Mister Ron Echidna
                jarrett@...
                (anti-spam, remove my pants to email me)
                ********
                http://stealth.emulationzone.org/ron
                ---------------------------------------------------------------
                "I'd just walked into a goddamn reptile house, and
                people were giving them alcohol.
                Pretty soon, they'd start tearing us to pieces."
                Johnny Depp, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
                --------------------------------------------------------------
              • Doctor Zachary
                ... From: Ron To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Beyond 184 ... himself ... for ...
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 6, 2000
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Ron <jarrett@...>
                  To: <sonicthecomic@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 6:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: Beyond 184


                  > I kinda figured that Pochamocac or whatever had absorbed Chaos into
                  himself
                  > or something, therefore the "ancient prison", which looked like a box for
                  > ashes, would've been Pochamocac's remains, and they were locked away after
                  > his death to stop Chaos eventually escaping when the water-like substance
                  > seeped out. Or something. Actually, I'd really like to see a "Jedi-pyre"
                  for
                  > Pocham.. thingy, sorta like Darth Vader at then end of Return of the Jedi
                  > (and Qui-Gon, I know). That'd be cool.

                  Tikal, I am your father!

                  --
                  zac@...
                  We're going to destroy the world.
                  http://www.sonicthecomic.co.uk/
                  Wanna come?
                • Nigel Kitching
                  Dean: Any plans as to if he becomes neutral in further fights, if you were thinking of grouping him up with Sonic and gang at a later date? I really hadn t got
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 7, 2000
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                    Dean:

                    Any plans as to if he becomes neutral in further fights, if you were
                    thinking
                    of grouping him up with Sonic and gang at a later date?

                    I really hadn't got around to thinking what I might do with Grimer in future
                    stories.


                    Nigel
                  • Nigel Kitching
                    Mike: Yes! Will you write them for us?!? Nah. I think I ll pass the whole Sonic thing over to you guys now. Nigel
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 7, 2000
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                      Mike:

                      Yes! Will you write them for us?!?

                      Nah. I think I'll pass the whole Sonic thing over to you guys now.

                      Nigel
                    • Nigel Kitching
                      ... suggest to Andy Diggle? That is, did you actually have any power to affect this decision?
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 7, 2000
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                        Ed:

                        >>When you say a shorter, tighter little plot - was this something you would
                        suggest to Andy Diggle? That is, did you actually have any power to affect
                        this decision?<<

                        I usually came up with suggestions for length of story. I suspect if I had
                        said to Andy that I thought we should come up with maybe a three-parter I
                        think he would probably have agreed with me. Andy would still have been the
                        one with the authority to actually decide though.

                        All your comments seemed sensible Ed. But remember these are just ideas that
                        I had. Much of what you read would not have ever seen print in the way it
                        was expressed here. Once you try to make ideas work as stories all kinds of
                        things need to be considered - never mistake a good idea for a good story.

                        Right now the image of the Prosecutor fish swimming down to the sunken
                        Floating Island sticks in my mind. This would make a great image. Maybe he
                        could meet up with Zachary there. But what does the Prosecutor want with the
                        Floating Island? Well, I don't know - I don't write Sonic...

                        Nigel
                      • Boingobaby@aol.com
                        In a message dated 07/07/00 09:55:27 GMT Daylight Time, ... That s depressing. You don t go hinting at these wonderful things and then end the email like that.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 7, 2000
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                          In a message dated 07/07/00 09:55:27 GMT Daylight Time,
                          nigel@... writes:

                          > Well, I don't know - I don't write Sonic...

                          That's depressing. You don't go hinting at these wonderful things and then
                          end the email like that. How very cruel *sobs*.

                          Sel (you know I love ya'll really)

                          ---
                          "You'll go to Hell".
                          "Hell? Ha. I long for the simplicity of eternal damnation. Life on Earth was
                          such a chore...."
                        • Abigail Ryder
                          ... Nanoo! Nanoo! No...wait. Wrong thingy... --Abby.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 7, 2000
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                            Doctor Zachary wrote:

                            > > I kinda figured that Pochamocac or whatever had absorbed Chaos into
                            > himself
                            > > or something, therefore the "ancient prison", which looked like a box for
                            > > ashes, would've been Pochamocac's remains, and they were locked away after
                            > > his death to stop Chaos eventually escaping when the water-like substance
                            > > seeped out. Or something. Actually, I'd really like to see a "Jedi-pyre"
                            > for
                            > > Pocham.. thingy, sorta like Darth Vader at then end of Return of the Jedi
                            > > (and Qui-Gon, I know). That'd be cool.
                            >
                            > Tikal, I am your father!

                            Nanoo! Nanoo! No...wait. Wrong thingy...

                            --Abby.
                          • David Bulmer
                            In article , Nigel Kitching writes ... Interestingly it s the major image that
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 7, 2000
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                              In article <003b01bfe7ee$45582320$3f46883e@oemcomputer>, Nigel Kitching
                              <nigel@...> writes
                              >Right now the image of the Prosecutor fish swimming down to the sunken
                              >Floating Island sticks in my mind.

                              Interestingly it's the major image that has stuck in my mind too. We've
                              got to do something with that, but I wonder what? Ed's ideas of the
                              underwater Drakons is good - what if we had them having all but
                              forgotten the Drakons over the years, and the prosecutor go down to
                              remind them and to be their leader. Whether they would accept him I
                              don't know.

                              --
                              David Bulmer

                              The Sonic Ideal - It ain't over 'till the fat man screams
                              www.encarnacion.simplenet.com/sonicideal
                            • Ron
                              ... From: David Bulmer To: sonicthecomic@egroups.com Date: 08 July 2000 00:31 Subject: Re: Beyond 184
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 8, 2000
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                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: David Bulmer <dave@...>
                                To: sonicthecomic@egroups.com <sonicthecomic@egroups.com>
                                Date: 08 July 2000 00:31
                                Subject: Re: Beyond 184


                                >In article <003b01bfe7ee$45582320$3f46883e@oemcomputer>, Nigel Kitching
                                ><nigel@...> writes
                                >>Right now the image of the Prosecutor fish swimming down to the sunken
                                >>Floating Island sticks in my mind.
                                >
                                >Interestingly it's the major image that has stuck in my mind too. We've
                                >got to do something with that, but I wonder what? Ed's ideas of the
                                >underwater Drakons is good - what if we had them having all but
                                >forgotten the Drakons over the years, and the prosecutor go down to
                                >remind them and to be their leader. Whether they would accept him I
                                >don't know.


                                Hold on, they would've been there for.. 8,000 years wasn't it? Do we
                                remember what happened to us 8,000 years ago? Not really, but archeaologists
                                and the like seem to have a vague idea.

                                These guys would have only vague memories of the Drakon Empire, and have
                                developed completely differently. And they would only remember them at all
                                if they still have advanced technology.

                                Also, Chaos had been around for the same amount of time.. I mean, he could
                                only remember Sonic and Pochamac and stuff by "some strange link with the
                                ancient world" or whatever. How do we know _he_ even remembers the Drakon
                                Empire?

                                Mister Ron Echidna
                                jarrett@...
                                (anti-spam, remove my pants to email me)
                                ********
                                http://stealth.emulationzone.org/ron
                                ---------------------------------------------------------------
                                "I'd just walked into a goddamn reptile house, and
                                people were giving them alcohol.
                                Pretty soon, they'd start tearing us to pieces."
                                Johnny Depp, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
                                --------------------------------------------------------------
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