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Re: [Solomonic] Re: Working traditional magic outside the old limits. Was He...

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  • SianyH@aol.com
    It would very much depend on what the Mars talisman would be for remember we are not talking about ceremonial magick here we are talking about traditionalist
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 1, 2009
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      It would very much depend on what the Mars talisman would be for
      remember we are not talking about ceremonial magick here we are talking
      about traditionalist witchcraft

      I would use that sort of energy if I was working against a situation for
      someone which involved unfairness
      Perhaps a personal issue of bigotry or injustice

      In Witchcraft the energy comes from the Upper through the medium of the
      practitioner into the material plane and is not about utlising entities (in the
      most for this type of magicakal working) its about using the focus and will of
      the witch herself to focus that particular energy type into an object which
      is then given to the person and slowly released to help them in a specific
      situation

      Witchcraft is a tool for results on a personal level for yourself and others
      but I do not think it is a tool for the elevation of the soul to the higher
      levels it is purley a way of exercising the will in the material world

      I was taught that Craft were the builders rather than the archetects.

      siany


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Aaron
      ... talking ... Well, to be fair, *you* may be talking about traditionalist witchcraft, but we (the overall group) are discussing the broader subject of
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 1, 2009
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        --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, SianyH@... wrote:
        >
        > It would very much depend on what the Mars talisman would be for
        > remember we are not talking about ceremonial magick here we are
        talking
        > about traditionalist witchcraft

        Well, to be fair, *you* may be talking about traditionalist
        witchcraft, but we (the overall group) are discussing the broader
        subject of "conjure magick" or "sorcery." (And, for the record, the
        word "conujure" is used in this sense not to indicate conjuration of
        spirits, but more in the sense that Hexcraft is called "conjuring.")

        Your experience with trad. witchcraft fits into this mold - a point I
        have stressed in many of my own essays and my book on Solomonic
        magick. However, keep in mind that most of the folks you are talking
        to here are coming from the Solomonic side of sorcery. ;)

        > In Witchcraft the energy comes from the Upper through the medium of
        the
        > practitioner into the material plane and is not about utlising
        entities (in the
        > most for this type of magicakal working) its about using the focus
        and will of
        > the witch herself to focus that particular energy type into an
        object which
        > is then given to the person and slowly released to help them in a
        specific
        > situation
        > Witchcraft is a tool for results on a personal level for yourself
        and others
        > but I do not think it is a tool for the elevation of the soul to
        the higher
        > levels it is purley a way of exercising the will in the material
        world

        Outside of actually calling upon spirits or Angels for various
        reasons, what you describe above is pretty much how the folks here do
        their magick as well. For some great examples of what we're talking
        about, look into Agrippa "First Book of Occult Philosohpy", the
        fourth book of Abramelin (omitted by Mathers, restored by Dehn), the
        Fifth and Sixth Books of Moses and even "Secrets of the Psalms." As
        a trad Witch, you'll find something very familiar in all of these
        books. ;)

        Mainly, I'm saying you shouldn't mistake this group for, say, a
        Golden Dawn style group. :)

        LVX
        Aaron
      • Rufus Opus
        Ceremonial Magic and Traditional Witchcraft aren t as far apart as modernists would have us believe. The further back in time we go, the less difference
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2009
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          "Ceremonial Magic" and "Traditional Witchcraft" aren't as far apart as modernists would have us believe. The further back in time we go, the less difference there really is. The idea that the magicians in the city practiced "High" magic because the cities were higher than the rest of the land for defense... Come on already. It's bullshit. The deeper into the grimoires you get the more apparent it is that the "ceremonial magicians" were doing the same kind of stuff that the "witches" were doing. Check the Book of Abramelin for a classic example, or hey, Agrippa.

          "Energy..." I won't go off on a full rant, Aaron's group is civilized. Mostly. I'll leave it at this: Check the "Greater Key of Solomon." When the modern "witch" is trying to "channel energy" to make something happen, he's not doing much more than the 9 days of preliminary prayer. It gathers spirits. The modern "witch" doesn't know that he's conjuring spirits to do the building (like Solomon used the daimons to build the Temple in the Testament of Solomon), so he lacks the seals and authority to actually put them to work. All he ends up doing in the worst case scenario is gathering a bunch of spirits and never giving them the charge to accomplish anything.

          And we wonder why the pagan community is so ... inundated by the lunatic fringe.

          ----------------------------------------------
          I sit with the elders of a generation this world has seldom seen
          "Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis."

          Fr. Rufus Opus
          FrRufusOpus@...
          http://headforred.blogspot.com
          www.rufusopus.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: SianyH@...
          To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:24 AM
          Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Re: Working traditional magic outside the old limits. Was He...


          It would very much depend on what the Mars talisman would be for
          remember we are not talking about ceremonial magick here we are talking
          about traditionalist witchcraft

          I would use that sort of energy if I was working against a situation for
          someone which involved unfairness
          Perhaps a personal issue of bigotry or injustice

          In Witchcraft the energy comes from the Upper through the medium of the
          practitioner into the material plane and is not about utlising entities (in the
          most for this type of magicakal working) its about using the focus and will of
          the witch herself to focus that particular energy type into an object which
          is then given to the person and slowly released to help them in a specific
          situation

          Witchcraft is a tool for results on a personal level for yourself and others
          but I do not think it is a tool for the elevation of the soul to the higher
          levels it is purley a way of exercising the will in the material world

          I was taught that Craft were the builders rather than the archetects.

          siany


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available! Let me know what you think.
          http://kheph777.tripod.com/indexsecrets.htmlYahoo! Groups Links




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Harry Roth
          ... used the daimons to build the Temple ... actually put them to work. All he ends ... never giving them the charge to ... Well, depends on the witch. Lots of
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2009
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            Rufus Opus wrote:
            >The modern "witch"
            >doesn't know that he's conjuring spirits to do the building (like Solomon
            used the daimons to build the Temple
            >in the Testament of Solomon), so he lacks the seals and authority to
            actually put them to work. All he ends
            >up doing in the worst case scenario is gathering a bunch of spirits and
            never giving them the charge to
            >accomplish anything.

            Well, depends on the witch. Lots of modern witches work directly with
            spirits, and many use sigils. Also consider fetches, familiars, and "fairies."

            Harry
            --
            The Alchemist's Garden
            http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/
          • Rufus Opus
            Ok, so not those witches then. ... I sit with the elders of a generation this world has seldom seen Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis. Fr. Rufus
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 2, 2009
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              Ok, so not those "witches" then.

              ----------------------------------------------
              I sit with the elders of a generation this world has seldom seen
              "Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis."

              Fr. Rufus Opus
              FrRufusOpus@...
              http://headforred.blogspot.com
              www.rufusopus.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Harry Roth
              To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:16 PM
              Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Re: Working traditional magic outside the old limits. Was He...


              Rufus Opus wrote:
              >The modern "witch"
              >doesn't know that he's conjuring spirits to do the building (like Solomon
              used the daimons to build the Temple
              >in the Testament of Solomon), so he lacks the seals and authority to
              actually put them to work. All he ends
              >up doing in the worst case scenario is gathering a bunch of spirits and
              never giving them the charge to
              >accomplish anything.

              Well, depends on the witch. Lots of modern witches work directly with
              spirits, and many use sigils. Also consider fetches, familiars, and "fairies."

              Harry
              --
              The Alchemist's Garden
              http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Harry Roth
              ... What s with the quotation marks? I thought I had left behind the who s-a-real-witch thing in the witchcraft groups. I have not ever seen that particular
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 3, 2009
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                Rufus Opus wrote:
                > Ok, so not those "witches" then.

                What's with the quotation marks? I thought I had left behind the
                who's-a-real-witch thing in the witchcraft groups. I have not ever seen
                that particular discussion produce anything positive.

                Harry
                --
                The Alchemist's Garden
                http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/
              • FrRufusOpus@Comcast.net
                I dunno. The context is lost now, and I don t have any idea what we were talking about. When I put a term in quotes, it usually means I m making a semantic
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 4, 2009
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                  I dunno. The context is lost now, and I don't have any idea what we were talking about. When I put a term in quotes, it usually means I'm making a semantic point. I assume I meant that we were using the term "witch" differently. The point was that "witches" and "magicians" weren't all that diffent. Someone had said that they had learned that "witches" chaneled their own "energy" and didn't contact spirits. I'm pretty sure that was the context. I really don't remember now. And I'm fevered. Likely rambling.

                  "Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis."

                  Fr. Rufus Opus
                  FrRufusOpus@...
                  http://headforred.blogspot.com
                  www.rufusopus.com


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Harry Roth" <groups@...>
                  To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:32:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
                  Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Re: Working traditional magic outside the old limits. Was  He...

                  Rufus Opus wrote:
                  >  Ok, so not those "witches" then.

                  What's with the quotation marks? I thought I had left behind the
                  who's-a-real-witch thing in the witchcraft groups. I have not ever seen
                  that particular discussion produce anything positive.

                  Harry
                  --
                  The Alchemist's Garden
                  http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Harry Roth
                  ... Hokey dokey. Harry -- The Alchemist s Garden http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 5, 2009
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                    FrRufusOpus@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I dunno. The context is lost now, and I don't have any idea what we were talking about. When I put a term in quotes, it usually means I'm making a semantic point. I assume I meant that we were using the term "witch" differently. The point was that "witches" and "magicians" weren't all that diffent. Someone had said that they had learned that "witches" chaneled their own "energy" and didn't contact spirits. I'm pretty sure that was the context. I really don't remember now. And I'm fevered. Likely rambling.
                    >

                    Hokey dokey.

                    Harry
                    --
                    The Alchemist's Garden
                    http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/
                  • Jenny Sargent
                    I m glad the flu isn t contageous over the internet. Wonder if that Myrrh water stuff would help. ...
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 5, 2009
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                      I'm glad the flu isn't contageous over the internet. Wonder if that Myrrh water stuff would help.


                      --- On Wed, 3/4/09, FrRufusOpus@... <FrRufusOpus@...> wrote:

                      > From: FrRufusOpus@... <FrRufusOpus@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Re: Working traditional magic outside the old limits. Was He...
                      > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                      > Received: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 1:21 PM
                      > I dunno. The context is lost now, and I don't have any
                      > idea what we were talking about. When I put a term in
                      > quotes, it usually means I'm making a semantic point. I
                      > assume I meant that we were using the term "witch"
                      > differently. The point was that "witches" and
                      > "magicians" weren't all that diffent. Someone
                      > had said that they had learned that "witches"
                      > chaneled their own "energy" and didn't contact
                      > spirits. I'm pretty sure that was the context. I really
                      > don't remember now. And I'm fevered. Likely
                      > rambling.
                      >
                      > "Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis."
                      >
                      > Fr. Rufus Opus
                      > FrRufusOpus@...
                      > http://headforred.blogspot.com
                      > www.rufusopus.com
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Harry Roth"
                      > <groups@...>
                      > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:32:53 AM GMT -05:00
                      > US/Canada Eastern
                      > Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Re: Working traditional magic
                      > outside the old limits. Was He...
                      >
                      > Rufus Opus wrote:
                      > > Ok, so not those "witches" then.
                      >
                      > What's with the quotation marks? I thought I had left
                      > behind the
                      > who's-a-real-witch thing in the witchcraft groups. I
                      > have not ever seen
                      > that particular discussion produce anything positive.
                      >
                      > Harry
                      > --
                      > The Alchemist's Garden
                      > http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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