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Re: [Solomonic] (was)Material Question for Group (now) Agrippa's Animals

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  • Mike Rock
    ... Rulership by planets is not a 1:1 endeavor. Cats in a different source are attriubuted to the Moon because of how their eyes change shape like the Moon.
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 1, 2008
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      On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 3:47 PM, enigmius93 <enigmius93@...> wrote:
      > In Agrippa's TBOP(Book I Ch.XLIV)"The Compositions of Fumes
      > Appropriated to the Planets."
      >
      > For Saturn:
      > Take the seed of black poppy, of henbane, the root of mandrake, the
      > loadstone(?), and myrrh, and make them up with the brain of a cat
      > and the blood of a bat.
      >
      > I assume there is an association with bats and cats with saturn.
      > Though I wonder why he places owls in the realm of luna. I can only
      > guess it had something to do with the feathers being white during
      > winter, and darker during summer. And they do fly at night afterall,
      > but aren't owls typically thought of as having extensive wisdom and
      > knowledge? Wouldn't that make them slightly more saturnian? Perhapse
      > Owls can be both?
      >

      Rulership by planets is not a 1:1 endeavor. Cats in a different source
      are attriubuted to the Moon because of how their eyes change shape
      like the Moon.

      mike
      --
      http://www.mike-rock.com
    • Rufus Opus
      ... From: enigmius93 To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:47 PM Subject: [Solomonic] (was)Material Question for Group (now)
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 1, 2008
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: enigmius93
        To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:47 PM
        Subject: [Solomonic] (was)Material Question for Group (now) Agrippa's Animals



        > Though I wonder why he places owls in the realm of luna. I can only
        > guess it had something to do with the feathers being white during
        > winter, and darker during summer. And they do fly at night afterall,
        > but aren't owls typically thought of as having extensive wisdom and
        > knowledge? Wouldn't that make them slightly more saturnian? Perhapse
        > Owls can be both?

        Don't forget about Artemis.

        -R.O.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kathy_mcdonald62
        ... Agrippa s Animals ... only ... afterall, ... and ... Perhapse ... ****And Lilith. LOVE Kathy
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 1, 2008
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          --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Rufus Opus" <FrRufusOpus@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: enigmius93
          > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:47 PM
          > Subject: [Solomonic] (was)Material Question for Group (now)
          Agrippa's Animals
          >
          >
          >
          > > Though I wonder why he places owls in the realm of luna. I can
          only
          > > guess it had something to do with the feathers being white during
          > > winter, and darker during summer. And they do fly at night
          afterall,
          > > but aren't owls typically thought of as having extensive wisdom
          and
          > > knowledge? Wouldn't that make them slightly more saturnian?
          Perhapse
          > > Owls can be both?
          >
          > Don't forget about Artemis.
          >
          > -R.O.

          ****And Lilith.

          LOVE Kathy
        • Modrocus
          Hello all, In working with the greater key of Solomon adaptations are expected, see all the references to ‘suitable’ or ‘proper’ ceremonies the
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
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            Hello all,

            In working with the greater key of Solomon adaptations are expected, see all the references to ‘suitable’ or ‘proper’ ceremonies the magician is to conduct on his own, and even necessary at times. However useful Agrippa’s attributions of animals, I think that if wrongly applied it can diminish the results of an operation.

            In his post ‘Substitutes for Blood’ Aaron offered the idea that blood was used as a thickening agent in the creation of inks. This isn’t something I entirely believe for the two pentacles in question (the second of Jupiter and the seventh of Mars) because the blood of two different types of animals is stated in their creation. Thickening agents should be universal, but I cannot discount this argument because the two pentacles probably weren’t sourced from the same codex. But I will soon get into what I believe to be a proper application of Solomonic Omiero and gum arabic as an ink for the second pentacle of Jupiter.

            Rather than using rote substitutions it is important for us to first consider the original component, why it is being used and also for what quality. Putting things into a proper context goes a long way, and historical and mythological research into the region of the text helps. All things have more than one association that can be magically utilized. Take for instance the first flowing plants of Spring do not all have the same planetary associations. If you plan to perform an ancient rite of renewal and the plant stated is not available in your area, you would not choose one that shares the same planetary ruler but a local early flowing perennial. Though the substitute may have a different ruler it shares a quality of the original that you are brining into your ceremony. Animals hold many more associations that are based on their coloring, behaviors, actions and functions. The image of a raven can be used on Martial or Mercurial talismans based on how
            they are heralds of war as well as being tricksters and mimics.

            This is something to keep in mind with the pentacles in the greater key because they are more so tools to be used in ceremonies and less so talismans. The majority of them are created and consecrated in the same Mercurial manner, and those which aren’t share the trait that their construction contributes to the success of the ceremony in which they are used. The seventh pentacle of the Sun is engraved on gold because it is used in solar rites, and the image of the seventh pentacle of Mars is drawn with the blood of bat because in its preparation and ceremonies the magician draws upon the Martial qualities of the animal. Therefore, even if Agrippa places bats with Saturn, unless you discover some way in which Saturn contributes to the entirety of the operation, the blood of just any other animal ruled by the planet would be inappropriate.

            This doesn’t mean substitutions of the animal or plant variety aren’t impossible, they only require a lot more thought.

            In the North American southwest and South America the blood of a screech owl is often used to curse others, and in Navajo country to open a home up to the influence of demons. The second pentacle of Jupiter is one of many from the greater key which is used to draw the attention of celestial as well as local spirits so they may help to fulfill a goal. Even though it is coming from an entirely different tradition I would be hesitant to flash anything smeared with the blood of a screech owl to spirits of that region. Though there is the possibility of diminished results I would err on the side of caution and find an appropriate substitute.

            Along with other associations the owl is also considered a symbol of prosperity. The use of its blood, but not its sacrifice, brings this quality into the operation; this is reinforced with the image being written with the feather of a swallow, another animal which symbolizes prosperity. In place of the regular pen and ink of the art the second pentacle of Jupiter is created with the materia of two animals of prosperity; two birds, ruled by air and Jupiter, one that flies by day and the other by night. Since they are related, if the ink is being replaced so too must the pen.

            If I wished to create an omiero to treat as a basis for the ink to replace owl’s blood I would first look for a local plant which symbolizes prosperity, preferably a flowing one which blooms (is active) at night. It would be all the better if screech owls commonly use or nest in the plant. Then I would conversely search for a plant of prosperity which blooms during the day, and exorcise a stem from it to use as the pen. And modifications to the prayers and exorcisms found in Chapters XIV, XV, and XVI of Book II are easy enough to make to duly prepare the instruments.

            Again, there may be diminished results, but using this method for an initial working is preferable to being followed home by or offending local spirits you intend to ask for assistance. If asked, a spirit called by the pentacle will let you know of its efficacy and or tell you how to correct it. Just be sure to perform the statement of intent and the daily rituals leading up to the main ceremony to garner as much attention as you can.

            I am not a strict reconstructionist, but I believe the texts should be adhered to as closely as possible before any changes are made because the methods outlined in the grimoire lend themselves to the success of a magician’s operations. And if a change is to be made, make sure you do it right and it is for the right reasons. A true lack of an availability of an item, offending local spirits or oneself, and violating personal oaths are valid reasons. Simply looking for an easier way to conduct or shorten a ceremony is not.

            I know from experience that rewriting prayers and researching suitable alterations which keep with the tradition and perform as well as the written method involves a lot of work. A lot of the time you have to try the old before you can compare it to the new. So fair warning, if you are going to do this be ready to put in some effort.

            In LVX,
            Modrocus


            --- On Tue, 9/30/08, enigmius93 <enigmius93@...> wrote:

            In Agrippa's TBOP(Book I Ch.XLIV)"The Compositions of Fumes
            Appropriated to the Planets."

            For Saturn:
            Take the seed of black poppy, of henbane, the root of mandrake, the
            loadstone(?) , and myrrh, and make them up with the brain of a cat
            and the blood of a bat.

            I assume there is an association with bats and cats with saturn.
            Though I wonder why he places owls in the realm of luna. I can only
            guess it had something to do with the feathers being white during
            winter, and darker during summer. And they do fly at night afterall,
            but aren't owls typically thought of as having extensive wisdom and
            knowledge? Wouldn't that make them slightly more saturnian? Perhapse
            Owls can be both?
          • kathy_mcdonald62
            ****Spoken like a true practicing Magician! I agree. We all come up against problems in our work. It is how you approach and handle them that counts. Some good
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
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              ****Spoken like a true practicing Magician!

              I agree. We all come up against problems in our work. It is how you
              approach and handle them that counts. Some good tips below.

              LOVE Kathy

              --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Modrocus <modrocus@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > In working with the greater key of Solomon adaptations are
              expected, see all the references to ‘suitable’ or ‘proper’
              ceremonies the magician is to conduct on his own, and even necessary
              at times. However useful Agrippa’s attributions of animals, I think
              that if wrongly applied it can diminish the results of an operation.
              >
              > In his post ‘Substitutes for Blood’ Aaron offered the idea that
              blood was used as a thickening agent in the creation of inks. This
              isn’t something I entirely believe for the two pentacles in
              question (the second of Jupiter and the seventh of Mars) because the
              blood of two different types of animals is stated in their creation.
              Thickening agents should be universal, but I cannot discount this
              argument because the two pentacles probably weren’t sourced from
              the same codex. But I will soon get into what I believe to be a
              proper application of Solomonic Omiero and gum arabic as an ink for
              the second pentacle of Jupiter.
              >
              > Rather than using rote substitutions it is important for us to
              first consider the original component, why it is being used and also
              for what quality. Putting things into a proper context goes a long
              way, and historical and mythological research into the region of the
              text helps. All things have more than one association that can be
              magically utilized. Take for instance the first flowing plants of
              Spring do not all have the same planetary associations. If you plan
              to perform an ancient rite of renewal and the plant stated is not
              available in your area, you would not choose one that shares the same
              planetary ruler but a local early flowing perennial. Though the
              substitute may have a different ruler it shares a quality of the
              original that you are brining into your ceremony. Animals hold many
              more associations that are based on their coloring, behaviors,
              actions and functions. The image of a raven can be used on Martial or
              Mercurial talismans based on how
              > they are heralds of war as well as being tricksters and mimics.
              >
              > This is something to keep in mind with the pentacles in the greater
              key because they are more so tools to be used in ceremonies and less
              so talismans. The majority of them are created and consecrated in the
              same Mercurial manner, and those which aren’t share the trait that
              their construction contributes to the success of the ceremony in
              which they are used. The seventh pentacle of the Sun is engraved on
              gold because it is used in solar rites, and the image of the seventh
              pentacle of Mars is drawn with the blood of bat because in its
              preparation and ceremonies the magician draws upon the Martial
              qualities of the animal. Therefore, even if Agrippa places bats with
              Saturn, unless you discover some way in which Saturn contributes to
              the entirety of the operation, the blood of just any other animal
              ruled by the planet would be inappropriate.
              >
              > This doesn’t mean substitutions of the animal or plant variety
              aren’t impossible, they only require a lot more thought.
              >
              > In the North American southwest and South America the blood of a
              screech owl is often used to curse others, and in Navajo country to
              open a home up to the influence of demons. The second pentacle of
              Jupiter is one of many from the greater key which is used to draw the
              attention of celestial as well as local spirits so they may help to
              fulfill a goal. Even though it is coming from an entirely different
              tradition I would be hesitant to flash anything smeared with the
              blood of a screech owl to spirits of that region. Though there is the
              possibility of diminished results I would err on the side of caution
              and find an appropriate substitute.
              >
              > Along with other associations the owl is also considered a symbol
              of prosperity. The use of its blood, but not its sacrifice, brings
              this quality into the operation; this is reinforced with the image
              being written with the feather of a swallow, another animal which
              symbolizes prosperity. In place of the regular pen and ink of the art
              the second pentacle of Jupiter is created with the materia of two
              animals of prosperity; two birds, ruled by air and Jupiter, one that
              flies by day and the other by night. Since they are related, if the
              ink is being replaced so too must the pen.
              >
              > If I wished to create an omiero to treat as a basis for the ink to
              replace owl’s blood I would first look for a local plant which
              symbolizes prosperity, preferably a flowing one which blooms (is
              active) at night. It would be all the better if screech owls commonly
              use or nest in the plant. Then I would conversely search for a plant
              of prosperity which blooms during the day, and exorcise a stem from
              it to use as the pen. And modifications to the prayers and exorcisms
              found in Chapters XIV, XV, and XVI of Book II are easy enough to make
              to duly prepare the instruments.
              >
              > Again, there may be diminished results, but using this method for
              an initial working is preferable to being followed home by or
              offending local spirits you intend to ask for assistance. If asked, a
              spirit called by the pentacle will let you know of its efficacy and
              or tell you how to correct it. Just be sure to perform the statement
              of intent and the daily rituals leading up to the main ceremony to
              garner as much attention as you can.
              >
              > I am not a strict reconstructionist, but I believe the texts should
              be adhered to as closely as possible before any changes are made
              because the methods outlined in the grimoire lend themselves to the
              success of a magician’s operations. And if a change is to be made,
              make sure you do it right and it is for the right reasons. A true
              lack of an availability of an item, offending local spirits or
              oneself, and violating personal oaths are valid reasons. Simply
              looking for an easier way to conduct or shorten a ceremony is not.
              >
              > I know from experience that rewriting prayers and researching
              suitable alterations which keep with the tradition and perform as
              well as the written method involves a lot of work. A lot of the time
              you have to try the old before you can compare it to the new. So fair
              warning, if you are going to do this be ready to put in some effort.
              >
              > In LVX,
              > Modrocus
              >
              >
              > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, enigmius93 <enigmius93@...> wrote:
              >
              > In Agrippa's TBOP(Book I Ch.XLIV)"The Compositions of Fumes
              > Appropriated to the Planets."
              >
              > For Saturn:
              > Take the seed of black poppy, of henbane, the root of mandrake, the
              > loadstone(?) , and myrrh, and make them up with the brain of a cat
              > and the blood of a bat.
              >
              > I assume there is an association with bats and cats with saturn.
              > Though I wonder why he places owls in the realm of luna. I can only
              > guess it had something to do with the feathers being white during
              > winter, and darker during summer. And they do fly at night
              afterall,
              > but aren't owls typically thought of as having extensive wisdom and
              > knowledge? Wouldn't that make them slightly more saturnian?
              Perhapse
              > Owls can be both?
              >
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