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Re: Evocation to Visible Appearance

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  • Aaron
    ... That is the phrase that popped into my mind. Lisiewski talks a lot about constructing a sub-conscious belief system that supports the magick itself.
    Message 1 of 50 , Jan 1, 2005
      --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, al-khemia@e... wrote:

      > Fair enough. But, Lisiewski and his "slingshot effect" (which he
      > asserts is a *fact* - in his words, "it *always* occurs" and in
      > exactly the same order) seems paranoid; relationship woes, financial
      > fluctuations, etc. - all of these are the results of his evocations?
      > What about them just being "self-fulfilled prophecy"?

      That is the phrase that popped into my mind. Lisiewski talks a lot
      about constructing a sub-conscious "belief" system that supports the
      magick itself. That happens to be true, and even Agrippa talks about
      it. (Of the helps of religion and superstition, etc.) Then, he goes
      on to insist that we build a self-fullfilling "slingshot effect" into
      our belief systems. Frankly, I think it merely reflects his own
      belief system, and not a magickal law.

      (Besides,
      > maybe Aaron has tried Lisiewski's method?)

      Quite honestly, there are not worlds of differences between
      Lisiewski's methods and my own. I'm not personally much into goetic
      summoning- as I tend to focus on Angelic summoning. Plus, I don't
      think one *has* to memorize the conjurations. Yet, the general
      practical methods he uses are pretty standard for Solomonic work. I
      think I put a LOT more effort into ritual preparations beforehand,
      but I agree with Lisiewski about following the directions given in
      the grimoires as closely as possible.

      It is Lisiewski's theory (mainly chapters one to three) I have an
      issue with. The practical portion of his book (chapter four onward)
      would be fine if he would stop insisting that the walls are going to
      crack and the demons are going to scream and howl and claw their way
      around the Circle. (Unless, of course, one happens to be a skryer
      and sees such things in vision. Non-skryers in the room are unlikely
      to witness the same events.)

      Of course, Lisiewski could assure us that I'm a fraud. I've never
      dedicated a practice to the Heptameron specifically, so according to
      him my experience compares in no way to his own.

      However, as I said last time- anyone is free to experiment. They can
      put Lisiewski's instructions to use point for point, and see if they
      get a tangible lizard or spider-insect. After all, anything is
      possible in the Universe... ;)

      LVX
      Aaron
    • Mal´┐Ż Kempis
      Hi Chela, ... Girls.. ;P~ Hey, the Carribean. I don t travel much as things currently stand. Sometimes I walk in the woods, but that s about it. It s nice to
      Message 50 of 50 , Jan 8, 2005
        Hi Chela,

        > Not if you were to visit the Caribbean; especially
        > around Carnival!!! :) Outside of corporate slavery
        > and spiritual/magical work, I'm also a fete
        > organizer. See below ~

        Girls.. ;P~ Hey, the Carribean. I don't travel much as
        things currently stand. Sometimes I walk in the woods,
        but that's about it. It's nice to meet people online.
        Though I've met people from Thailand, Kenya, and
        Malaysia, more personal connections are kind of
        limited to those who speak English. (mainly from
        Canada, America, England, Australia - as I'm sure you
        know.) There is a language I'm learning called
        Esperanto that is meant as a common language; but I'm
        slow when it comes to languages.

        "Poppycock" btw was a reference to something said here
        a little while ago. I regret over-reacting to it, so
        the word has found it's way into my vocabulary. Don't
        think I can ever take it seriously though.. :)


        > Ps Not sure if Aaron would approve another
        > half-poppycocked message. :)

        Think of it this way - friendly chatter between
        magical types will keep coming back to magic, right?

        ~x

        =====
        my music:
        http://varia.xepher.net



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