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Building Relationships with Spirits

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  • kheph777
    Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities. They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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      Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities.  They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I sent them the following:

       

      ---------------------------

      Greetings,

      Well, first and foremost, it is good you are talking about patron spirits with students. It is one of those important magickal screts that are most often overlooked in modern occult texts. All too often, the practice of working with spirits is described as a kind of menu-ordering technique - decide what you need done, look up a spirit who's function is to do that and then give them a call. Then you demand what you want, and expect the spirit to rush out and get it for you.

      But that is not how the system works at all. The proper way to work with spirits is to establish a relationship with a limited number of them - those that will become your patrons or your familairs - and work with them on a regular basis. This way, when you need something, you're calling a trusted friend for help - not ringing up some random stranger and making demands. Imagine, for example, a dear friend calls you and says their car has broken down and they need your help. Now imagine a stranger calls you and says, "Give me a car! NOW!" Which person are you going to help, and which one are you going to hang up on?

      It is no different for a spirit when you contact it with a request. Always ask yourself *why* a given spirit or angel should even want to help you. If the entity doesn't know you and you're offering it no incentive (such as offerings) then why should it bother?

      Establshing the necessary relationships can happen in a couple of ways. First, your partrons may very well contact you on their own. This happened to me with the Archangel Michael - who came to visit me once when I was very down. Since that first encounter, I have worked with him via Solomonic evocation and ritual invocations for many years.

      The other way is for you to make the first contact. It is possible to "cold contact" an entity to request help, as long as it is done with respect. Then if it goes well, you will want to continue to call that entity rather than moving on to someone else. I did this with the Intelligence of Jupiter Iophiel. I called him once with a problem and he was more than willing to help. Because of the good results, I continued to call upon him many times over the years, so he is now one of my established patron angels.

      Overall, there are a small number of angels I work with on a regular basis. If I ever need something that is outside one of their jurisdictions, they will tell me who can help me and will often bring them to me for an introduction.

      Also don't forget the importance of offerings. You can't just summon up an entity and ask for favors, you need to offer something in return. Sometimes an entity may request you do something for it - such as spreading its name to your fellow magicians, or donating to charities. or creating something in their name. But more often you will need to make some kind of physical offering - something that will provide the entity with the energy it requires to do what you've asked of it. Learn what the entity likes to consume: candles, incense, tobacco, foods, milk, wine, water, etc, etc - all of these and more can be offered to the angels and spirits as payment for work on your behalf.

      Exactly what to offer, how to offer it and what to do with the offering when the work is done is something that you'll have to learn. Do research on what the entity finds sacred (and what offends it), and don't hesitiate to ask the entity itself. (Especially to learn how that spirit wants you to make the offerings, where to leave them, etc.) By making these offerings as payment for work, you will make that entity more willing to work with you again in the future. Repeat the process several times and you'll have established a relationship that benefits both sides.

      Another good point to consider is building altars. If you're going to build a relationship and work with a particular entity on a regular basis, learn how to establsih an altar for it. Give it a home inside your house, make your offerings there, summon and talk to the entity there, etc. This further establishes the entity as a member of your household. This make a god or angel one of your house gods, and it makes lesser spirits into your familiars. (Remember the root of "familiar" is "family.")

      Those are the key ingredients: 1) Work with a limited number of spirits rather than calling up entieis you don't know. 2) Make offerings to them as payment for work done. And 3) set up altars to the ones you want to have with you at all times. Do these three things and you'll develop real relationships with your chosen entities, and through them your practical magick will achieve astounding results.

      ----------------------

       

      I thought this would make a good subject of discussion for his group, as well.  :)

       

      LVX

      Aaron

    • right
      well said, aaron!
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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        well said, aaron!
      • jason_hauser
        Fantastic summary. Thanks.
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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          Fantastic summary. Thanks.



        • Jake Stratton-Kent
          ... not exactly underlined in the majority of grimoires either. Can name two: Abramelin and the Grimoirium Verum. Which neatly brings us to the question of
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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            On 7 September 2013 08:31, <kheph777@...> wrote:
            >
            > Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities. They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I sent them the following:
            >
            > ---------------------------
            >
            > Greetings,
            >
            > Well, first and foremost, it is good you are talking about patron spirits with students. It is one of those important magickal secrets that are most often overlooked in modern occult texts.

            not exactly underlined in the majority of grimoires either. Can name
            two: Abramelin and the Grimoirium Verum. Which neatly brings us to the
            question of 'angelic or goetic?'

            >All too often, the practice of working with spirits is described as a kind of menu-ordering technique - decide what you need done, look up a spirit who's function is to do that and then give them a call. Then you demand what you want, and expect the spirit to rush out and get it for you.

            yep, that's modernist rot.

            > But that is not how the system works at all. The proper way to work with spirits is to establish a relationship with a limited number of them - those that will become your patrons or your familiars - and work with them on a regular basis. This way, when you need something, you're calling a trusted friend for help

            agreed.

            >
            > It is no different for a spirit when you contact it with a request. Always ask yourself *why* a given spirit or angel should even want to help you. If the entity doesn't know you and you're offering it no incentive (such as offerings) then why should it bother?
            >

            this is a question very rarely asked, and there is a whole lot more to
            be thought about.

            magic on the basis of 'menu ordering', call a spirit, tell it what you
            want, it obliges (perhaps due to coercive measures, perhaps because
            humans have this 'god given' right over material and spiritual
            creation). That is so superficial and nonsensical no one with half a
            brain could put it forward as a workable theory.

            So, what is in it for them (and us) in the big picture?
            And where has the rest of the big picture gone that we have to ask in
            the first place?


            > Establishing the necessary relationships can happen in a couple of ways. First, your patrons may very well contact you on their own. This happened to me with the Archangel Michael - who came to visit me once when I was very down. Since that first encounter, I have worked with him via Solomonic evocation and ritual invocations for many years.

            Michael is perhaps the most typical angelic patron; and there are
            aspects to the discussion which may divide 'angelic & celestial'
            operators from 'chthonic & goetic' ones - but Michael is appropriate
            to both.

            > The other way is for you to make the first contact. It is possible to "cold contact" an entity to request help, as long as it is done with respect. Then if it goes well, you will want to continue to call that entity rather than moving on to someone else. I did this with the Intelligence of Jupiter Iophiel. I called him once with a problem and he was more than willing to help. Because of the good results, I continued to call upon him many times over the years, so he is now one of my established patron angels.

            well here is where the good old goetic tradition comes riding in. The
            GV particularly operates around a 'contact' or 'intermediary' spirit
            who you cultivate carefully in order to access the other spirits of
            the system. Not an angel (at least, not in the usual sense folks
            understand). He and the rest are 'demons' - although other terminology
            clarifies this considerably: 'Third Order Angels' (ie, nature spirits
            etc understood as lower angels) or Elementals (with fire specially
            emphasised). As this 'down to earth' sphere is where a lot of magic
            operates, its as well to get past the demonisation and work with some
            'close to home' guys who will be involved in a good deal of day to day
            magic. One who'll help you with herbal work for a start.


            > Also don't forget the importance of offerings. You can't just summon up an entity and ask for favors, you need to offer something in return. Sometimes an entity may request you do something for it - such as spreading its name to your fellow magicians, or donating to charities. or creating something in their name. But more often you will need to make some kind of physical offering - something that will provide the entity with the energy it requires to do what you've asked of it. Learn what the entity likes to consume: candles, incense, tobacco, foods, milk, wine, water, etc, etc - all of these and more can be offered to the angels and spirits as payment for work on your behalf.

            Verum spirits are greeted with frankincense, but also *expect* fire as
            a minimal offering, don't even think abut working with them unless you
            have a nice fat red candle, or even a firepit.

            On top of that some typical requests for work done include: eggs,
            barley flour, barley beer.


            > Exactly what to offer, how to offer it and what to do with the offering when the work is done is something that you'll have to learn. Do research on what the entity finds sacred (and what offends it), and don't hesitiate to ask the entity itself.

            ask how the ceremony could be improved, whether something has been
            omitted, what type of gifts are welcomed etc etc. Get good with a
            reliable divination tool so you can communicate (it may need more than
            one tool, spirits differ over preferred methods too).

            >(Especially to learn how that spirit wants you to make the offerings, where to leave them, etc.)

            some typical places: crossroads (Y or T shaped or + shaped);
            particular trees; cemeteries.

            >By making these offerings as payment for work, you will make that entity more willing to work with you again in the future. Repeat the process several times and you'll have established a relationship that benefits both sides.
            >
            > Another good point to consider is building altars. If you're going to build a relationship and work with a particular entity on a regular basis, learn how to establish an altar for it. Give it a home inside your house, make your offerings there, summon and talk to the entity there, etc. This further establishes the entity as a member of your household. This make a god or angel one of your house gods, and it makes lesser spirits into your familiars. (Remember the root of "familiar" is "family.")

            > Those are the key ingredients:

            >1) Work with a limited number of spirits rather than calling up entities you don't know.

            and contact spirits you don't know thru ones you do (something Verum
            ideally is set up for).

            > 2) Make offerings to them as payment for work done.

            yep, generally not a good idea to pay in advance - other than the
            'meet & greet' style offerings (incense and fire in the case of GV)

            >And 3) set up altars to the ones you want to have with you at all times.

            this will require know how and careful divination to achieve properly
            in many cases. Spirit pot technology etc is comparatively 'new' in
            modern magick. Knowing - or finding out - what the spirit wants in its
            pot, or on/around its image etc is a fine art.

            >Do these three things and you'll develop real relationships with your chosen entities, and through them your practical magick will achieve astounding results.

            agreed, and be prepared to learn by experience (which involves trial
            and error, and 'burned fingers'). Discover the Magical Work Ethic.
            Question 'what everyone knows' in the light of genuine experience and
            penetrating research. Don't be afraid to differ from the mainstream;
            fact is that authentic, focused Spirit Work is - amazingly - a new
            area for much of modern Occulture. So there is a lot of stuff out
            there from the earlier revival period that is incompatible with it.
            Assuming a good link with a coherent spirit hierarchy, you'd do better
            to trust the spirits than 90% of the 'stuff' on Mind, Body & Spirit
            shelves in your local store, not to mention most of the chatter
            online.

            ALWays

            Jake
          • soror_ama2011
            fact is that authentic, focused Spirit Work is - amazingly - a new area for much of modern Occulture . I would ask why is this? Do you think this is due to
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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              "fact is that authentic, focused Spirit Work is - amazingly - a new
              area for much of modern Occulture".

              >>>I would ask why is
              this? Do you think this is due to the influence of New Age and Fluff? What do you think differentiates serious spirit work from the stuff commonly on display in the Mind Body and Spirit section of the local bookstore or Internet?



              --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, <solomonic@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              On 7 September 2013 08:31, <kheph777@...> wrote:
              >
              > Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities. They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I sent them the following:
              >
              > ---------------------------
              >
              > Greetings,
              >
              > Well, first and foremost, it is good you are talking about patron spirits with students. It is one of those important magickal secrets that are most often overlooked in modern occult texts.

              not exactly underlined in the majority of grimoires either. Can name
              two: Abramelin and the Grimoirium Verum. Which neatly brings us to the
              question of 'angelic or goetic?'

              >All too often, the practice of working with spirits is described as a kind of menu-ordering technique - decide what you need done, look up a spirit who's function is to do that and then give them a call. Then you demand what you want, and expect the spirit to rush out and get it for you.

              yep, that's modernist rot.

              > But that is not how the system works at all. The proper way to work with spirits is to establish a relationship with a limited number of them - those that will become your patrons or your familiars - and work with them on a regular basis. This way, when you need something, you're calling a trusted friend for help

              agreed.

              >
              > It is no different for a spirit when you contact it with a request. Always ask yourself *why* a given spirit or angel should even want to help you. If the entity doesn't know you and you're offering it no incentive (such as offerings) then why should it bother?
              >

              this is a question very rarely asked, and there is a whole lot more to
              be thought about.

              magic on the basis of 'menu ordering', call a spirit, tell it what you
              want, it obliges (perhaps due to coercive measures, perhaps because
              humans have this 'god given' right over material and spiritual
              creation). That is so superficial and nonsensical no one with half a
              brain could put it forward as a workable theory.

              So, what is in it for them (and us) in the big picture?
              And where has the rest of the big picture gone that we have to ask in
              the first place?


              > Establishing the necessary relationships can happen in a couple of ways. First, your patrons may very well contact you on their own. This happened to me with the Archangel Michael - who came to visit me once when I was very down. Since that first encounter, I have worked with him via Solomonic evocation and ritual invocations for many years.

              Michael is perhaps the most typical angelic patron; and there are
              aspects to the discussion which may divide 'angelic & celestial'
              operators from 'chthonic & goetic' ones - but Michael is appropriate
              to both.

              > The other way is for you to make the first contact. It is possible to "cold contact" an entity to request help, as long as it is done with respect. Then if it goes well, you will want to continue to call that entity rather than moving on to someone else. I did this with the Intelligence of Jupiter Iophiel. I called him once with a problem and he was more than willing to help. Because of the good results, I continued to call upon him many times over the years, so he is now one of my established patron angels.

              well here is where the good old goetic tradition comes riding in. The
              GV particularly operates around a 'contact' or 'intermediary' spirit
              who you cultivate carefully in order to access the other spirits of
              the system. Not an angel (at least, not in the usual sense folks
              understand). He and the rest are 'demons' - although other terminology
              clarifies this considerably: 'Third Order Angels' (ie, nature spirits
              etc understood as lower angels) or Elementals (with fire specially
              emphasised). As this 'down to earth' sphere is where a lot of magic
              operates, its as well to get past the demonisation and work with some
              'close to home' guys who will be involved in a good deal of day to day
              magic. One who'll help you with herbal work for a start.


              > Also don't forget the importance of offerings. You can't just summon up an entity and ask for favors, you need to offer something in return. Sometimes an entity may request you do something for it - such as spreading its name to your fellow magicians, or donating to charities. or creating something in their name. But more often you will need to make some kind of physical offering - something that will provide the entity with the energy it requires to do what you've asked of it. Learn what the entity likes to consume: candles, incense, tobacco, foods, milk, wine, water, etc, etc - all of these and more can be offered to the angels and spirits as payment for work on your behalf.

              Verum spirits are greeted with frankincense, but also *expect* fire as
              a minimal offering, don't even think abut working with them unless you
              have a nice fat red candle, or even a firepit.

              On top of that some typical requests for work done include: eggs,
              barley flour, barley beer.


              > Exactly what to offer, how to offer it and what to do with the offering when the work is done is something that you'll have to learn. Do research on what the entity finds sacred (and what offends it), and don't hesitiate to ask the entity itself.

              ask how the ceremony could be improved, whether something has been
              omitted, what type of gifts are welcomed etc etc. Get good with a
              reliable divination tool so you can communicate (it may need more than
              one tool, spirits differ over preferred methods too).

              >(Especially to learn how that spirit wants you to make the offerings, where to leave them, etc.)

              some typical places: crossroads (Y or T shaped or + shaped);
              particular trees; cemeteries.

              >By making these offerings as payment for work, you will make that entity more willing to work with you again in the future. Repeat the process several times and you'll have established a relationship that benefits both sides.
              >
              > Another good point to consider is building altars. If you're going to build a relationship and work with a particular entity on a regular basis, learn how to establish an altar for it. Give it a home inside your house, make your offerings there, summon and talk to the entity there, etc. This further establishes the entity as a member of your household. This make a god or angel one of your house gods, and it makes lesser spirits into your familiars. (Remember the root of "familiar" is "family.")

              > Those are the key ingredients:

              >1) Work with a limited number of spirits rather than calling up entities you don't know.

              and contact spirits you don't know thru ones you do (something Verum
              ideally is set up for).

              > 2) Make offerings to them as payment for work done.

              yep, generally not a good idea to pay in advance - other than the
              'meet & greet' style offerings (incense and fire in the case of GV)

              >And 3) set up altars to the ones you want to have with you at all times.

              this will require know how and careful divination to achieve properly
              in many cases. Spirit pot technology etc is comparatively 'new' in
              modern magick. Knowing - or finding out - what the spirit wants in its
              pot, or on/around its image etc is a fine art.

              >Do these three things and you'll develop real relationships with your chosen entities, and through them your practical magick will achieve astounding results.

              agreed, and be prepared to learn by experience (which involves trial
              and error, and 'burned fingers'). Discover the Magical Work Ethic.
              Question 'what everyone knows' in the light of genuine experience and
              penetrating research. Don't be afraid to differ from the mainstream;
              fact is that authentic, focused Spirit Work is - amazingly - a new
              area for much of modern Occulture. So there is a lot of stuff out
              there from the earlier revival period that is incompatible with it.
              Assuming a good link with a coherent spirit hierarchy, you'd do better
              to trust the spirits than 90% of the 'stuff' on Mind, Body & Spirit
              shelves in your local store, not to mention most of the chatter
              online.

              ALWays

              Jake
            • soror_ama2011
              Very nicely put. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding with this topic, leaning towards the menu perspective when it is discussed at all. I can t think
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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                Very nicely put. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding with this topic, leaning towards the "menu" perspective when it is discussed at all. I can't think of anything more hazardous when it comes with working with spirits. Those like Michael or Raphael are one thing, but people do not understand that there are spirits who don't care for humans and don't really have a desire to work with us. We can't assume that they are just hanging around clamoring to work with us just because we are humans or because we just happen to want something done. That is selfish and assumes that we humans are the highest life forms on the food chain and I think that is a short sighted assumption.

                I was taught to approach spirits with respect, and place emphasis on the relational aspect first. The Patrons I currently have contacted me first via dreams or other means. Others I have worked with through seals or talismans, obtained from intermediary sources. Most of what I use in my workings with Patrons has been gained from research, actual conversations or dreams, and advice from my mentor. The Patrons I currently work with are Anubis, Raphael, Kushial, and Morrigan, Each have their preferences as far as incense, candles, food and beverage; as well as dislikes (when I do a food offering for Anubis, for example, it is with red meat versus tofu and usually dark beer such as Guinness).

                I think its more important to think of this from a point of view that emphasizes "working relationship" rather than simply making demands upon spirits that one doesn't really know. The former can develop into something mutually beneficial, the latter can have undesirable consequences.

                 



                --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, <solomonic@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities.  They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I sent them the following:

                 

                ---------------------------

                Greetings,

                Well, first and foremost, it is good you are talking about patron spirits with students. It is one of those important magickal screts that are most often overlooked in modern occult texts. All too often, the practice of working with spirits is described as a kind of menu-ordering technique - decide what you need done, look up a spirit who's function is to do that and then give them a call. Then you demand what you want, and expect the spirit to rush out and get it for you.

                But that is not how the system works at all. The proper way to work with spirits is to establish a relationship with a limited number of them - those that will become your patrons or your familairs - and work with them on a regular basis. This way, when you need something, you're calling a trusted friend for help - not ringing up some random stranger and making demands. Imagine, for example, a dear friend calls you and says their car has broken down and they need your help. Now imagine a stranger calls you and says, "Give me a car! NOW!" Which person are you going to help, and which one are you going to hang up on?

                It is no different for a spirit when you contact it with a request. Always ask yourself *why* a given spirit or angel should even want to help you. If the entity doesn't know you and you're offering it no incentive (such as offerings) then why should it bother?

                Establshing the necessary relationships can happen in a couple of ways. First, your partrons may very well contact you on their own. This happened to me with the Archangel Michael - who came to visit me once when I was very down. Since that first encounter, I have worked with him via Solomonic evocation and ritual invocations for many years.

                The other way is for you to make the first contact. It is possible to "cold contact" an entity to request help, as long as it is done with respect. Then if it goes well, you will want to continue to call that entity rather than moving on to someone else. I did this with the Intelligence of Jupiter Iophiel. I called him once with a problem and he was more than willing to help. Because of the good results, I continued to call upon him many times over the years, so he is now one of my established patron angels.

                Overall, there are a small number of angels I work with on a regular basis. If I ever need something that is outside one of their jurisdictions, they will tell me who can help me and will often bring them to me for an introduction.

                Also don't forget the importance of offerings. You can't just summon up an entity and ask for favors, you need to offer something in return. Sometimes an entity may request you do something for it - such as spreading its name to your fellow magicians, or donating to charities. or creating something in their name. But more often you will need to make some kind of physical offering - something that will provide the entity with the energy it requires to do what you've asked of it. Learn what the entity likes to consume: candles, incense, tobacco, foods, milk, wine, water, etc, etc - all of these and more can be offered to the angels and spirits as payment for work on your behalf.

                Exactly what to offer, how to offer it and what to do with the offering when the work is done is something that you'll have to learn. Do research on what the entity finds sacred (and what offends it), and don't hesitiate to ask the entity itself. (Especially to learn how that spirit wants you to make the offerings, where to leave them, etc.) By making these offerings as payment for work, you will make that entity more willing to work with you again in the future. Repeat the process several times and you'll have established a relationship that benefits both sides.

                Another good point to consider is building altars. If you're going to build a relationship and work with a particular entity on a regular basis, learn how to establsih an altar for it. Give it a home inside your house, make your offerings there, summon and talk to the entity there, etc. This further establishes the entity as a member of your household. This make a god or angel one of your house gods, and it makes lesser spirits into your familiars. (Remember the root of "familiar" is "family.")

                Those are the key ingredients: 1) Work with a limited number of spirits rather than calling up entieis you don't know. 2) Make offerings to them as payment for work done. And 3) set up altars to the ones you want to have with you at all times. Do these three things and you'll develop real relationships with your chosen entities, and through them your practical magick will achieve astounding results.

                ----------------------

                 

                I thought this would make a good subject of discussion for his group, as well.  :)

                 

                LVX

                Aaron

              • Jake Stratton-Kent
                ... much as I d enjoy blaming the MSU brigade it s a good deal more complicated and long standing. In the English Speaking occult world with outgoing old
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 10, 2013
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                  On 7 September 2013 19:07, <silverwolfofthedark@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > "fact is that authentic, focused Spirit Work is - amazingly - a new
                  > area for much of modern Occulture".
                  >
                  >>>>I would ask why is this? Do you think this is due to the influence of New
                  >>>> Age and Fluff? What do you think differentiates serious spirit work from the
                  >>>> stuff commonly on display in the Mind Body and Spirit section of the local
                  >>>> bookstore or Internet?

                  much as I'd enjoy blaming the MSU brigade it's a good deal more
                  complicated and long standing. In the English Speaking occult world
                  with outgoing old fashioned 'white' cultural emphases that is. I'm not
                  saying there were no exceptions to this 'spirit marginalising'
                  tendency in the last 140 years; but a lot of very influential currents
                  tended to keep magicians and spirits as separate as possible for the
                  most part. Particularly perhaps in the 'Ceremonial Magic community'.

                  Taking 1875 as the 'beginning' of the Occult Revival, Western Culture
                  had been moving closer to secular and rationalist ideas for some time.
                  Long enough - for example - for astrology to have been criticised for
                  magical connections and come to look more 'Christian', as it
                  eventually tried to look psychological. Old school connections between
                  planets, signs, etc with personalised entities had pretty much gone.

                  The Golden Dawn and Crowleyan schools had a historical relationship
                  with Spiritualism that tended to downplay spirits as active
                  associates; climaxing in Crowleys early but enduringly influential
                  connection of demons to parts of the mind. Add that these were
                  colonial times, so picking up helpful tips from Vodou on relations
                  with spirits was unthinkable to Mathers and Fortune. Add the
                  contemporary influence of Jung & Freud etc - etc. Lots of enduring
                  influences that weren't conducive to a 'spirit centred' methodology
                  and frame of reference.

                  So-oo, mainstream ceremonial magic for much of modern times treated
                  spirits as inconvenient adjuncts of a psychodrama, and only within the
                  last 15 to 25 years have things really started to change. Towards
                  *assuming* the spirits have a central role, and that there might even
                  be some kind of 'hands on' pantheon involved in the previously
                  two-dimensional lists of spirit names. And figuring out what kind of
                  tech we'd been overlooking in our old source materials, while
                  comparing notes with New World traditions etc
                  .
                  Which is where we are now, thankfully. It might even seem like it was
                  always that way to some folks, but really its early days. We live in
                  interesting times.

                  ALWays

                  Jake

                  http://www.underworldapothecary.com/
                • Jake Stratton-Kent
                  An angle on spirit work I rarely see mentioned is that of hypostasis. This is strongly connected to the idea of correspondences in its older forms. Traditions
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 11, 2013
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                    An angle on spirit work I rarely see mentioned is that of hypostasis. This is strongly connected to the idea of correspondences in its older forms. Traditions connecting the spirit and its 'correspondences' with some 'Aspect' of the One are partly to blame. Attributing a god or spirit and a plant, stone, planet etc to -say - Hod, and Hod to a potency of Ain Soph etc desensitises us to the link between the correspondences and the older god underlying the correspondences (subsequently interpreted as a Hebrew number, the older form become a mere aid memoir).  We can then lose sight of the closer relationship physical 'correspondences' have with gods and spirits of a more material nature. 

                    That is, while the substance of a spirit is 'spiritual' there are material representations of it in nature in which it is present - a hypostasis. A hypostasis can be 'celestial', for example the association of the constellation of Orion with Semjaza (aka Belzebuth in later goetic texts) is not one of 'correspondence' via the Tree of Life, but of virtual identity. The giant has been raised into the heavens; when awestruck by the constellation, we are 'feeling' his presence. 

                    On earth, some spirits are associated with trees, themselves objects of worship or reverence in older cultures. And so on through herbs, stones, locations etc etc. Hence a specific local hazel tree could form part of our relationship with a spirit; and catching sight of Orion or the Pleiades could be a numinous connection with another. Work with some herbs is of similar kind, drawing us closer in our relationship to the spirits whose plants they are.

                    On a hypothetical or philosophical level it may be legitimate to say that both the giant constellation and the plant are parts of a chain of associations linked to an aspect of the Supreme Being. In the more direct world of magic, always 'earthly' in origin, that association is not the most immediate. The smell of mint is the aroma of a nymph, far more immediately than its 'higher' status as a serial number in a catalogue of Jehovah's bits.

                    ALWays



                    On 7 September 2013 19:44, <silverwolfofthedark@...> wrote:


                    Very nicely put. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding with this topic, leaning towards the "menu" perspective when it is discussed at all. I can't think of anything more hazardous when it comes with working with spirits. Those like Michael or Raphael are one thing, but people do not understand that there are spirits who don't care for humans and don't really have a desire to work with us. We can't assume that they are just hanging around clamoring to work with us just because we are humans or because we just happen to want something done. That is selfish and assumes that we humans are the highest life forms on the food chain and I think that is a short sighted assumption.

                    I was taught to approach spirits with respect, and place emphasis on the relational aspect first. The Patrons I currently have contacted me first via dreams or other means. Others I have worked with through seals or talismans, obtained from intermediary sources. Most of what I use in my workings with Patrons has been gained from research, actual conversations or dreams, and advice from my mentor. The Patrons I currently work with are Anubis, Raphael, Kushial, and Morrigan, Each have their preferences as far as incense, candles, food and beverage; as well as dislikes (when I do a food offering for Anubis, for example, it is with red meat versus tofu and usually dark beer such as Guinness).

                    I think its more important to think of this from a point of view that emphasizes "working relationship" rather than simply making demands upon spirits that one doesn't really know. The former can develop into something mutually beneficial, the latter can have undesirable consequences.

                     

                    Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities.  They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I sent them the following:

                     

                    ---------------------------

                    Greetings,

                    Well, first and foremost, it is good you are talking about patron spirits with students. It is one of those important magickal screts that are most often overlooked in modern occult texts. All too often, the practice of working with spirits is described as a kind of menu-ordering technique - decide what you need done, look up a spirit who's function is to do that and then give them a call. Then you demand what you want, and expect the spirit to rush out and get it for you.

                    But that is not how the system works at all. The proper way to work with spirits is to establish a relationship with a limited number of them - those that will become your patrons or your familairs - and work with them on a regular basis. This way, when you need something, you're calling a trusted friend for help - not ringing up some random stranger and making demands. Imagine, for example, a dear friend calls you and says their car has broken down and they need your help. Now imagine a stranger calls you and says, "Give me a car! NOW!" Which person are you going to help, and which one are you going to hang up on?

                    It is no different for a spirit when you contact it with a request. Always ask yourself *why* a given spirit or angel should even want to help you. If the entity doesn't know you and you're offering it no incentive (such as offerings) then why should it bother?

                    Establshing the necessary relationships can happen in a couple of ways. First, your partrons may very well contact you on their own. This happened to me with the Archangel Michael - who came to visit me once when I was very down. Since that first encounter, I have worked with him via Solomonic evocation and ritual invocations for many years.

                    The other way is for you to make the first contact. It is possible to "cold contact" an entity to request help, as long as it is done with respect. Then if it goes well, you will want to continue to call that entity rather than moving on to someone else. I did this with the Intelligence of Jupiter Iophiel. I called him once with a problem and he was more than willing to help. Because of the good results, I continued to call upon him many times over the years, so he is now one of my established patron angels.

                    Overall, there are a small number of angels I work with on a regular basis. If I ever need something that is outside one of their jurisdictions, they will tell me who can help me and will often bring them to me for an introduction.

                    Also don't forget the importance of offerings. You can't just summon up an entity and ask for favors, you need to offer something in return. Sometimes an entity may request you do something for it - such as spreading its name to your fellow magicians, or donating to charities. or creating something in their name. But more often you will need to make some kind of physical offering - something that will provide the entity with the energy it requires to do what you've asked of it. Learn what the entity likes to consume: candles, incense, tobacco, foods, milk, wine, water, etc, etc - all of these and more can be offered to the angels and spirits as payment for work on your behalf.

                    Exactly what to offer, how to offer it and what to do with the offering when the work is done is something that you'll have to learn. Do research on what the entity finds sacred (and what offends it), and don't hesitiate to ask the entity itself. (Especially to learn how that spirit wants you to make the offerings, where to leave them, etc.) By making these offerings as payment for work, you will make that entity more willing to work with you again in the future. Repeat the process several times and you'll have established a relationship that benefits both sides.

                    Another good point to consider is building altars. If you're going to build a relationship and work with a particular entity on a regular basis, learn how to establsih an altar for it. Give it a home inside your house, make your offerings there, summon and talk to the entity there, etc. This further establishes the entity as a member of your household. This make a god or angel one of your house gods, and it makes lesser spirits into your familiars. (Remember the root of "familiar" is "family.")

                    Those are the key ingredients: 1) Work with a limited number of spirits rather than calling up entieis you don't know. 2) Make offerings to them as payment for work done. And 3) set up altars to the ones you want to have with you at all times. Do these three things and you'll develop real relationships with your chosen entities, and through them your practical magick will achieve astounding results.

                    ----------------------

                     

                    I thought this would make a good subject of discussion for his group, as well.  :)

                     

                    LVX

                    Aaron




                  • wolfangeluk
                    The psychic/conscious constructs are accurate correspondence when they come to create a dream like fugue in consciousness, it is this that is often overlooked,
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 28, 2013
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                       The psychic/conscious constructs are accurate correspondence when they come to create a dream like fugue in consciousness, it is this that is often overlooked, when a purely abstract intellectual view is taken of the contents of awareness. These act as a kind of bridge between spirit and matter, inhabiting the awareness like so many sentient creatures, all with there own stories to tell and shapes to shift between as the situations and conditions surrounding the individual mutate so in turn do the corresponding conscious forms. The Two dimensional fixed maps that imply so much stasis in identity create the illusion of being some kind of catalogue.  A convenient structure and order for awareness to take, like lives lived in form to the linear narratives of books, as if life or perception or movement in mind followed the order of a sentence.

                      Menus for ordering upon the psychotherapists couch.


                      Neo platonic eternal essences fixed into mental form as if they actually exist eternally. Bound in forms, informing the apparition of a mind. Pre verbal spirits howling through the empty spaces that forms require to fill. Yet the paradox of expression, word is reflected moonlight, the vanity of experience, Jehovahs bits entangled with Minthes green delights.



                      ---In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, <jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:


                      An angle on spirit work I rarely see mentioned is that of hypostasis. This is strongly connected to the idea of correspondences in its older forms. Traditions connecting the spirit and its 'correspondences' with some 'Aspect' of the One are partly to blame. Attributing a god or spirit and a plant, stone, planet etc to -say - Hod, and Hod to a potency of Ain Soph etc desensitises us to the link between the correspondences and the older god underlying the correspondences (subsequently interpreted as a Hebrew number, the older form become a mere aid memoir).  We can then lose sight of the closer relationship physical 'correspondences' have with gods and spirits of a more material nature. 

                      That is, while the substance of a spirit is 'spiritual' there are material representations of it in nature in which it is present - a hypostasis. A hypostasis can be 'celestial', for example the association of the constellation of Orion with Semjaza (aka Belzebuth in later goetic texts) is not one of 'correspondence' via the Tree of Life, but of virtual identity. The giant has been raised into the heavens; when awestruck by the constellation, we are 'feeling' his presence. 

                      On earth, some spirits are associated with trees, themselves objects of worship or reverence in older cultures. And so on through herbs, stones, locations etc etc. Hence a specific local hazel tree could form part of our relationship with a spirit; and catching sight of Orion or the Pleiades could be a numinous connection with another. Work with some herbs is of similar kind, drawing us closer in our relationship to the spirits whose plants they are.

                      On a hypothetical or philosophical level it may be legitimate to say that both the giant constellation and the plant are parts of a chain of associations linked to an aspect of the Supreme Being. In the more direct world of magic, always 'earthly' in origin, that association is not the most immediate. The smell of mint is the aroma of a nymph, far more immediately than its 'higher' status as a serial number in a catalogue of Jehovah's bits.

                      ALWays



                      On 7 September 2013 19:44, <silverwolfofthedark@...> wrote:


                      Very nicely put. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding with this topic, leaning towards the "menu" perspective when it is discussed at all. I can't think of anything more hazardous when it comes with working with spirits. Those like Michael or Raphael are one thing, but people do not understand that there are spirits who don't care for humans and don't really have a desire to work with us. We can't assume that they are just hanging around clamoring to work with us just because we are humans or because we just happen to want something done. That is selfish and assumes that we humans are the highest life forms on the food chain and I think that is a short sighted assumption.

                      I was taught to approach spirits with respect, and place emphasis on the relational aspect first. The Patrons I currently have contacted me first via dreams or other means. Others I have worked with through seals or talismans, obtained from intermediary sources. Most of what I use in my workings with Patrons has been gained from research, actual conversations or dreams, and advice from my mentor. The Patrons I currently work with are Anubis, Raphael, Kushial, and Morrigan, Each have their preferences as far as incense, candles, food and beverage; as well as dislikes (when I do a food offering for Anubis, for example, it is with red meat versus tofu and usually dark beer such as Guinness).

                      I think its more important to think of this from a point of view that emphasizes "working relationship" rather than simply making demands upon spirits that one doesn't really know. The former can develop into something mutually beneficial, the latter can have undesirable consequences.

                       

                      Someone just wrote me an email saying they are writing an essay on building relationships with spiritual entities.  They wanted my thoughts on the subject, so I sent them the following:

                       

                      ---------------------------

                      Greetings,

                      Well, first and foremost, it is good you are talking about patron spirits with students. It is one of those important magickal screts that are most often overlooked in modern occult texts. All too often, the practice of working with spirits is described as a kind of menu-ordering technique - decide what you need done, look up a spirit who's function is to do that and then give them a call. Then you demand what you want, and expect the spirit to rush out and get it for you.

                      But that is not how the system works at all. The proper way to work with spirits is to establish a relationship with a limited number of them - those that will become your patrons or your familairs - and work with them on a regular basis. This way, when you need something, you're calling a trusted friend for help - not ringing up some random stranger and making demands. Imagine, for example, a dear friend calls you and says their car has broken down and they need your help. Now imagine a stranger calls you and says, "Give me a car! NOW!" Which person are you going to help, and which one are you going to hang up on?

                      It is no different for a spirit when you contact it with a request. Always ask yourself *why* a given spirit or angel should even want to help you. If the entity doesn't know you and you're offering it no incentive (such as offerings) then why should it bother?

                      Establshing the necessary relationships can happen in a couple of ways. First, your partrons may very well contact you on their own. This happened to me with the Archangel Michael - who came to visit me once when I was very down. Since that first encounter, I have worked with him via Solomonic evocation and ritual invocations for many years.

                      The other way is for you to make the first contact. It is possible to "cold contact" an entity to request help, as long as it is done with respect. Then if it goes well, you will want to continue to call that entity rather than moving on to someone else. I did this with the Intelligence of Jupiter Iophiel. I called him once with a problem and he was more than willing to help. Because of the good results, I continued to call upon him many times over the years, so he is now one of my established patron angels.

                      Overall, there are a small number of angels I work with on a regular basis. If I ever need something that is outside one of their jurisdictions, they will tell me who can help me and will often bring them to me for an introduction.

                      Also don't forget the importance of offerings. You can't just summon up an entity and ask for favors, you need to offer something in return. Sometimes an entity may request you do something for it - such as spreading its name to your fellow magicians, or donating to charities. or creating something in their name. But more often you will need to make some kind of physical offering - something that will provide the entity with the energy it requires to do what you've asked of it. Learn what the entity likes to consume: candles, incense, tobacco, foods, milk, wine, water, etc, etc - all of these and more can be offered to the angels and spirits as payment for work on your behalf.

                      Exactly what to offer, how to offer it and what to do with the offering when the work is done is something that you'll have to learn. Do research on what the entity finds sacred (and what offends it), and don't hesitiate to ask the entity itself. (Especially to learn how that spirit wants you to make the offerings, where to leave them, etc.) By making these offerings as payment for work, you will make that entity more willing to work with you again in the future. Repeat the process several times and you'll have established a relationship that benefits both sides.

                      Another good point to consider is building altars. If you're going to build a relationship and work with a particular entity on a regular basis, learn how to establsih an altar for it. Give it a home inside your house, make your offerings there, summon and talk to the entity there, etc. This further establishes the entity as a member of your household. This make a god or angel one of your house gods, and it makes lesser spirits into your familiars. (Remember the root of "familiar" is "family.")

                      Those are the key ingredients: 1) Work with a limited number of spirits rather than calling up entieis you don't know. 2) Make offerings to them as payment for work done. And 3) set up altars to the ones you want to have with you at all times. Do these three things and you'll develop real relationships with your chosen entities, and through them your practical magick will achieve astounding results.

                      ----------------------

                       

                      I thought this would make a good subject of discussion for his group, as well.  :)

                       

                      LVX

                      Aaron




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