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when all lights go out...

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  • right
    During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 6, 2013
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      During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal but thought is't some coincidence but this time it have something with my callings and state of my mind, it was like as far as I concentrate on contact candle dimmed when I let it go it would shine again!
      However I thought if angels come they should bring light not darkness, so I thought maybe I was invoking something else instead of divine entities and I search every where for meaning of candle magic changes but most hoodoo workers and candle magician consider candle going out as a sign that your magic didn't work and you should try later, but I'm sure my magic did work and some source was contacted and something was evoked I just don't know what is was...
      Now my question's did anyone else had any similar experience during evocations specially angel magic like ars paulina or drawing spirits into crystal of trithemius?
      And, how do u interepret these dimming and goiong out of flame? possitive or negative? wanted or unwanted or even probably something trivial that I should bother to interpret at all?
    • AaronL
      The Hoodoo folks you asked are basically correct. Even if you believe you ve done the magick correctly, that doesn t mean there wasn t something about it that
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 6, 2013
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        The Hoodoo folks you asked are basically correct. Even if you believe you've done the magick correctly, that doesn't mean there wasn't something about it that the angel in question did not like. It could have been a particular substance or material present that offends him. It could have been the wrong time or day or year. There might have been something there that he wanted that wasn't included. You may need to change the colors or incense used. Or it could have simply been that the angel decided you were not ready for the contact. (Possibilities abound...)

        Your best bet would be to do some divination work with that angel and ask it what you need to change, or add, in order to make the evocation acceptable to him.

        LVX
        Aaron


        --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@...> wrote:
        >
        > During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal but thought is't some coincidence but this time it have something with my callings and state of my mind, it was like as far as I concentrate on contact candle dimmed when I let it go it would shine again!
        > However I thought if angels come they should bring light not darkness, so I thought maybe I was invoking something else instead of divine entities and I search every where for meaning of candle magic changes but most hoodoo workers and candle magician consider candle going out as a sign that your magic didn't work and you should try later, but I'm sure my magic did work and some source was contacted and something was evoked I just don't know what is was...
        > Now my question's did anyone else had any similar experience during evocations specially angel magic like ars paulina or drawing spirits into crystal of trithemius?
        > And, how do u interepret these dimming and goiong out of flame? possitive or negative? wanted or unwanted or even probably something trivial that I should bother to interpret at all?
        >
      • R~
        Hi Right - I wanted to chime in on this and let you know that many conjurers also see that kind of phenomena as something (or someone) actively working against
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 6, 2013
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          Hi Right -

          I wanted to chime in on this and let you know that many conjurers also
          see that kind of phenomena as something (or someone) actively working
          against you. I would definitely do what Aaron suggested and do some
          divination, or maybe have someone do it for you. It may not be something
          you're invoking at all; it could be that your practices have attracted a
          little unwanted attention from something that doesn't like what you're
          doing. There are many remedies for things like this - it would be a good
          idea for you to consult an expert so you can get back to work.

          Roy

          On 8/6/2013 5:30 PM, right wrote:
          > During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal but thought is't some coincidence but this time it have something with my callings and state of my mind, it was like as far as I concentrate on contact candle dimmed when I let it go it would shine again!
          > However I thought if angels come they should bring light not darkness, so I thought maybe I was invoking something else instead of divine entities and I search every where for meaning of candle magic changes but most hoodoo workers and candle magician consider candle going out as a sign that your magic didn't work and you should try later, but I'm sure my magic did work and some source was contacted and something was evoked I just don't know what is was...



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gilberto
          Another case is when you are working on a target to change some events and that have some kind of protection. May be attacking someone, or even a love spell.
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 7, 2013
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            Another case is when you are working on a target to change some events and that have some kind of protection.
            May be attacking someone, or even a love spell.
            This way, the energy come back.
            Agree with others: do a reading to see what's happened.


            Gilberto Strapazon

            http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Informática Esotérica
            http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Ficção Fantástica
            http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site
          • right
            what divination method(s) do suggest for contacting with angels? and some additional information, it was hour and day of venus and I use a kind of peppermint
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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              what divination method(s) do suggest for contacting with angels?

              and some additional information, it was hour and day of venus and I use a kind of peppermint for incense which I had used before for venus spirits with success, and I had bathed before ritual and anoited myself with Greater Key oil and consecrated tools with holy water.
              so what could be possibly a good method of divination which give me precise and understandable answer?

              tnX for helping me again ; )
              Right

              --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "AaronL" <kheph777@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > The Hoodoo folks you asked are basically correct. Even if you believe you've done the magick correctly, that doesn't mean there wasn't something about it that the angel in question did not like. It could have been a particular substance or material present that offends him. It could have been the wrong time or day or year. There might have been something there that he wanted that wasn't included. You may need to change the colors or incense used. Or it could have simply been that the angel decided you were not ready for the contact. (Possibilities abound...)
              >
              > Your best bet would be to do some divination work with that angel and ask it what you need to change, or add, in order to make the evocation acceptable to him.
              >
              > LVX
              > Aaron
              >
              >
              > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@> wrote:
              > >
              > > During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal but thought is't some coincidence but this time it have something with my callings and state of my mind, it was like as far as I concentrate on contact candle dimmed when I let it go it would shine again!
              > > However I thought if angels come they should bring light not darkness, so I thought maybe I was invoking something else instead of divine entities and I search every where for meaning of candle magic changes but most hoodoo workers and candle magician consider candle going out as a sign that your magic didn't work and you should try later, but I'm sure my magic did work and some source was contacted and something was evoked I just don't know what is was...
              > > Now my question's did anyone else had any similar experience during evocations specially angel magic like ars paulina or drawing spirits into crystal of trithemius?
              > > And, how do u interepret these dimming and goiong out of flame? possitive or negative? wanted or unwanted or even probably something trivial that I should bother to interpret at all?
              > >
              >
            • right
              as I said, I was not doing any kind of spell. I was trying to contact my assistant/familiar which I had received its sigil beforehand in a heptameron ritual,
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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                as I said, I was not doing any kind of spell. I was trying to contact my assistant/familiar which I had received its sigil beforehand in a heptameron ritual, using trithemius crystal working!

                --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Gilberto" <gilbertopb@...> wrote:
                >
                > Another case is when you are working on a target to change some events and that have some kind of protection.
                > May be attacking someone, or even a love spell.
                > This way, the energy come back.
                > Agree with others: do a reading to see what's happened.
                >
                >
                > Gilberto Strapazon
                >
                > http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Inform�tica Esot�rica
                > http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Fic��o Fant�stica
                > http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site
                >
              • Gilberto
                I just use the tarot, my former oracle. IMHO a magician must have an oracle of choice. Gilberto Strapazon http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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                  I just use the tarot, my former oracle.
                  IMHO a magician must have an oracle of choice.




                  Gilberto Strapazon

                  http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Informática Esotérica
                  http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Ficção Fantástica
                  http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site

                  --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > what divination method(s) do suggest for contacting with angels?
                  >
                  > and some additional information, it was hour and day of venus and I use a kind of peppermint for incense which I had used before for venus spirits with success, and I had bathed before ritual and anoited myself with Greater Key oil and consecrated tools with holy water.
                  > so what could be possibly a good method of divination which give me precise and understandable answer?
                  >
                  > tnX for helping me again ; )
                  > Right
                  >
                • Serpentis Satori
                  Perhaps you should try to contact it via the method in the GMP?   ________________________________ From: right To:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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                    Perhaps you should try to contact it via the method in the GMP?
                     




                    ________________________________
                    From: right <righttheprophet@...>
                    To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:53 AM
                    Subject: [Solomonic] Re: when all lights go out...



                     
                    as I said, I was not doing any kind of spell. I was trying to contact my assistant/familiar which I had received its sigil beforehand in a heptameron ritual, using trithemius crystal working!

                    --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Gilberto" <gilbertopb@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Another case is when you are working on a target to change some events and that have some kind of protection.
                    > May be attacking someone, or even a love spell.
                    > This way, the energy come back.
                    > Agree with others: do a reading to see what's happened.
                    >
                    >
                    > Gilberto Strapazon
                    >
                    > http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Inform�tica Esot�rica
                    > http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Fic��o Fant�stica
                    > http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • right
                    I have never used Greek Magical Papyri before! would you please elabore its method alittle and tell me about your experience working with it. I really need to
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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                      I have never used Greek Magical Papyri before! would you please elabore its method alittle and tell me about your experience working with it. I really need to go out of this dead end in my magical working so I appreciate any method or way which opens the way, so I'm going to give GMP a shot I juat need more instructions.

                      tnX in advance!

                      --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Serpentis Satori <serpentsatori@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Perhaps you should try to contact it via the method in the GMP?
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: right <righttheprophet@...>
                      > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:53 AM
                      > Subject: [Solomonic] Re: when all lights go out...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >   you mean greek magical papyri
                      > as I said, I was not doing any kind of spell. I was trying to contact my assistant/familiar which I had received its sigil beforehand in a heptameron ritual, using trithemius crystal working!
                      >
                      > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Gilberto" <gilbertopb@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Another case is when you are working on a target to change some events and that have some kind of protection.
                      > > May be attacking someone, or even a love spell.
                      > > This way, the energy come back.
                      > > Agree with others: do a reading to see what's happened.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Gilberto Strapazon
                      > >
                      > > http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Inform�tica Esot�rica
                      > > http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Fic��o Fant�stica
                      > > http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • AaronL
                      What type of divination you use will depend largely on you - and of course the angel you re working with. In general, you want something that will allow you to
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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                        What type of divination you use will depend largely on you - and of course the angel you're working with.

                        In general, you want something that will allow you to ask yes/no questions of the entity. The Tarot won't be very helpful - as it is not geared toward yes/no answers. If you're good with a pendulum, then use that. Others have good luck with spirit-boards. Geomancy is another good option:

                        http://kheph777.tripod.com/gd_geomancy.html

                        Near the top you'll find the yes/no method. Or you can just squill and use even numbers of dots for yes and odd for no.

                        To do the divination, just make a talisman or icon for the angel in question, along with an invocation to call it. Have a candle of the proper color and the proper incnese burning when you recite the invocation, then invite the entity to speak with you through the oracle.

                        Then begin asking it a series of yes/no questions that will narrow down what you need to know. I discuss this method in the following book review:

                        http://aaronleitch.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/the-grimoire-of-arthur-guantlet-a-review/

                        LVX
                        Aaron


                        --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > what divination method(s) do suggest for contacting with angels?
                        >
                        > and some additional information, it was hour and day of venus and I use a kind of peppermint for incense which I had used before for venus spirits with success, and I had bathed before ritual and anoited myself with Greater Key oil and consecrated tools with holy water.
                        > so what could be possibly a good method of divination which give me precise and understandable answer?
                        >
                        > tnX for helping me again ; )
                        > Right
                        >
                        > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "AaronL" <kheph777@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The Hoodoo folks you asked are basically correct. Even if you believe you've done the magick correctly, that doesn't mean there wasn't something about it that the angel in question did not like. It could have been a particular substance or material present that offends him. It could have been the wrong time or day or year. There might have been something there that he wanted that wasn't included. You may need to change the colors or incense used. Or it could have simply been that the angel decided you were not ready for the contact. (Possibilities abound...)
                        > >
                        > > Your best bet would be to do some divination work with that angel and ask it what you need to change, or add, in order to make the evocation acceptable to him.
                        > >
                        > > LVX
                        > > Aaron
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal but thought is't some coincidence but this time it have something with my callings and state of my mind, it was like as far as I concentrate on contact candle dimmed when I let it go it would shine again!
                        > > > However I thought if angels come they should bring light not darkness, so I thought maybe I was invoking something else instead of divine entities and I search every where for meaning of candle magic changes but most hoodoo workers and candle magician consider candle going out as a sign that your magic didn't work and you should try later, but I'm sure my magic did work and some source was contacted and something was evoked I just don't know what is was...
                        > > > Now my question's did anyone else had any similar experience during evocations specially angel magic like ars paulina or drawing spirits into crystal of trithemius?
                        > > > And, how do u interepret these dimming and goiong out of flame? possitive or negative? wanted or unwanted or even probably something trivial that I should bother to interpret at all?
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Serpentis Satori
                        Its the Spiritual Assistant, it is fairly short in Flower s book. You blindfold yourself, chant an Greek Barbous stuff all night. (this got me you do it in
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 8, 2013
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                          Its the Spiritual Assistant, it is fairly short in Flower's book.

                          You blindfold yourself, chant an Greek Barbous stuff all night.
                          (this got me you do it in Utter Dark, you Familiar blew out the lights!)

                          After the night at climax it gives you a 16 letter name. Then you put it on what Levi would call the "black altar", as its your Cthonic Guide, maybe the Egyptian Shadow?

                          I did the ritual after Rufus brought it up a few years back, which also connects. He loves that Skrying Crystal book, and might be the first proponent of the Spirtual assatant rite in 3000 years!

                          It is for love, sex, dreams. And your guide into death.
                          It takes some getting used to, but is very useful in dealing with other spirits.

                          Get Flowers' Book. I'm fine with keeping this discussion public. I'm working a short ebook about all three KC ... angles?
                           




                          ________________________________
                          From: right <righttheprophet@...>
                          To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 8:42 PM
                          Subject: [Solomonic] Re: when all lights go out...



                           
                          I have never used Greek Magical Papyri before! would you please elabore its method alittle and tell me about your experience working with it. I really need to go out of this dead end in my magical working so I appreciate any method or way which opens the way, so I'm going to give GMP a shot I juat need more instructions.

                          tnX in advance!

                          --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Serpentis Satori <serpentsatori@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Perhaps you should try to contact it via the method in the GMP?
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: right <righttheprophet@...>
                          > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:53 AM
                          > Subject: [Solomonic] Re: when all lights go out...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >   you mean greek magical papyri
                          > as I said, I was not doing any kind of spell. I was trying to contact my assistant/familiar which I had received its sigil beforehand in a heptameron ritual, using trithemius crystal working!
                          >
                          > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Gilberto" <gilbertopb@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Another case is when you are working on a target to change some events and that have some kind of protection.
                          > > May be attacking someone, or even a love spell.
                          > > This way, the energy come back.
                          > > Agree with others: do a reading to see what's happened.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Gilberto Strapazon
                          > >
                          > > http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Inform�tica Esot�rica
                          > > http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Fic��o Fant�stica
                          > > http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jake Stratton-Kent
                          Hi Gliberto, my oracle of choice nowadays is definitely pendulum (with or without the more sophisticated add ons , such as a circle of letters). What I ve
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 9, 2013
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                            Hi Gliberto,

                            my oracle of choice nowadays is definitely pendulum (with or without
                            the more sophisticated 'add ons', such as a circle of letters).

                            What I've found though is that some spirits have their own method of
                            choice too, which may vary depending on the chemistry between the
                            spirit and the individual magician.

                            One 'funny' incident around this, where I asked a spirit if he was
                            happy to use the pendulum in more advanced mode. Although he said yes,
                            he wasn't remotely coherent when we did, and I suspect it was a
                            'boast' that he couldn't follow up. He can be a bit of a joker. We
                            reverted back to simple pendulum for the yes/no stuff, and astragals
                            for more advanced readings. Which works well with him,

                            ALWays

                            Jake

                            http://www.underworldapothecary.com/

                            On 8 August 2013 17:56, Gilberto <gilbertopb@...> wrote:
                            > I just use the tarot, my former oracle.
                            > IMHO a magician must have an oracle of choice.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Gilberto Strapazon
                            >
                            > http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Informática Esotérica
                            > http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Ficção Fantástica
                            > http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site
                            >
                            > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> what divination method(s) do suggest for contacting with angels?
                            >>
                            >> and some additional information, it was hour and day of venus and I use a kind of peppermint for incense which I had used before for venus spirits with success, and I had bathed before ritual and anoited myself with Greater Key oil and consecrated tools with holy water.
                            >> so what could be possibly a good method of divination which give me precise and understandable answer?
                            >
                          • right
                            thanks aaron, serpentis satori, jake, and others, I ll use divination for modifying ritual and do it again, and I ll try GMP ritual also, then I ll report the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 9, 2013
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                              thanks aaron, serpentis satori, jake, and others, I'll use divination for modifying ritual and do it again, and I'll try GMP ritual also, then I'll report the results here, it just may take a month or so!
                              meanwhile, I appreciate any other comments.

                              --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "AaronL" <kheph777@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > What type of divination you use will depend largely on you - and of course the angel you're working with.
                              >
                              > In general, you want something that will allow you to ask yes/no questions of the entity. The Tarot won't be very helpful - as it is not geared toward yes/no answers. If you're good with a pendulum, then use that. Others have good luck with spirit-boards. Geomancy is another good option:
                              >
                              > http://kheph777.tripod.com/gd_geomancy.html
                              >
                              > Near the top you'll find the yes/no method. Or you can just squill and use even numbers of dots for yes and odd for no.
                              >
                              > To do the divination, just make a talisman or icon for the angel in question, along with an invocation to call it. Have a candle of the proper color and the proper incnese burning when you recite the invocation, then invite the entity to speak with you through the oracle.
                              >
                              > Then begin asking it a series of yes/no questions that will narrow down what you need to know. I discuss this method in the following book review:
                              >
                              > http://aaronleitch.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/the-grimoire-of-arthur-guantlet-a-review/
                              >
                              > LVX
                              > Aaron
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > what divination method(s) do suggest for contacting with angels?
                              > >
                              > > and some additional information, it was hour and day of venus and I use a kind of peppermint for incense which I had used before for venus spirits with success, and I had bathed before ritual and anoited myself with Greater Key oil and consecrated tools with holy water.
                              > > so what could be possibly a good method of divination which give me precise and understandable answer?
                              > >
                              > > tnX for helping me again ; )
                              > > Right
                              > >
                              > > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "AaronL" <kheph777@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > The Hoodoo folks you asked are basically correct. Even if you believe you've done the magick correctly, that doesn't mean there wasn't something about it that the angel in question did not like. It could have been a particular substance or material present that offends him. It could have been the wrong time or day or year. There might have been something there that he wanted that wasn't included. You may need to change the colors or incense used. Or it could have simply been that the angel decided you were not ready for the contact. (Possibilities abound...)
                              > > >
                              > > > Your best bet would be to do some divination work with that angel and ask it what you need to change, or add, in order to make the evocation acceptable to him.
                              > > >
                              > > > LVX
                              > > > Aaron
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > During some late angel magic, the candle first flickered and dimmed then went out completely! I have experienced it before when working with candle and crystal but thought is't some coincidence but this time it have something with my callings and state of my mind, it was like as far as I concentrate on contact candle dimmed when I let it go it would shine again!
                              > > > > However I thought if angels come they should bring light not darkness, so I thought maybe I was invoking something else instead of divine entities and I search every where for meaning of candle magic changes but most hoodoo workers and candle magician consider candle going out as a sign that your magic didn't work and you should try later, but I'm sure my magic did work and some source was contacted and something was evoked I just don't know what is was...
                              > > > > Now my question's did anyone else had any similar experience during evocations specially angel magic like ars paulina or drawing spirits into crystal of trithemius?
                              > > > > And, how do u interepret these dimming and goiong out of flame? possitive or negative? wanted or unwanted or even probably something trivial that I should bother to interpret at all?
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Gilberto
                              Righttheprophet, I missed this part. I thought you would be doing something more. So, what come in my mind is just something was missing, so the spirit just
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 9, 2013
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                                Righttheprophet, I missed this part. I thought you would be doing something more.

                                So, what come in my mind is just something was missing, so the spirit just refused your call.
                                For example, may be there's an hierarchy to call before and you lack it. Or you forgot to put something in place. Or the time/day, or the incense, etc.
                                Just revise your action and preparation for the ritual.

                                About the oracles use, nice comments guys.

                                Each one have his own way with oracles and to feel confortable with that.

                                In my case, I talk with the tarot, and most of the oracles I use.
                                For the tarot, I evocate the angel and this become near a chat.

                                So I have few understanding on Yes/No systems as I have to look for questions to ask.

                                So, I use the tarot for questions like: "what's happening" and then receive a reply. This includes the image I see and then going into the symbols/numbers as needed and the information flows.

                                In the tarot, this way a symple Yes/No question can receive a reply like "Yes, because this is so and so and it's related with that and else with another info". But also, sometimes I expect a complex reply and I only receive a "Yes, nothing more".

                                This vary a bit with each oracle as I also use Runes, I-Ching, brute stones, wood sticks, and some others as needed.

                                And some oracles I have really no patience with, like Geomancy. My pendulum is covered of dust. May be there's more than five years I don't use it. Just preferences.

                                One approach I learned in the 80s, is using the oracle to learn how use it. So, in the tarot example, if I receive some card I'm not sure about the significance for the question, I ask guidance and this come usually with two or three cards explaining that one.

                                I also used this just for study. For example, you may take any card, than ask explanation about the meanings then take two cards to explain the first. State always you are doing it for study, so this way, no other topic will be show.

                                With time, such conversation can become very fluent. You may be studying and the angel comes with a card really out of context, but showing something you may look for. Then, the chat continues into another direction.



                                Gilberto Strapazon

                                http://gilbertostrapazon.blogspot.com - Zenta - A Informática Esotérica
                                http://www.becodocrime.com.br - Contos de Terror e Ficção Fantástica
                                http://jd800center.blogspot.com - Roland JD800 site



                                --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "right" <righttheprophet@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > as I said, I was not doing any kind of spell. I was trying to contact my assistant/familiar which I had received its sigil beforehand in a heptameron ritual, using trithemius crystal working!
                                >
                                >
                              • thaumaturgy777
                                Hi Aaron, ... I would say that the tarot can be very useful for yes/no answers, in this way: Shuffle the cards thoroughly, making sure that when you cut the
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 10, 2013
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                                  Hi Aaron,



                                  > In general, you want something that will allow you to ask yes/no questions of the entity. The Tarot won't be very helpful - as it is not geared toward yes/no answers.


                                  I would say that the tarot can be very useful for yes/no answers, in this way:

                                  Shuffle the cards thoroughly, making sure that when you cut the deck, you flip one half. Keep doing that until your Angel/Spirit/Intuition tells you to stop. Then, you have a whole deck of yes or no answers, in that an upright card is YES and inverted means NO.

                                  I recommend drawing randomly from a point in the deck that feels right, rather than drawing from the top. Also, pay attention to the card that comes up. For example, if the question is about money and the Two of Swords comes up, that is not as strong of an answer as if say the Five of Pentacles is drawn.

                                  If you draw the latter card, then you know you are on track and it helps you trust your yes or no answer. But the Sword card may tell you to rethink your question, center yourself more, reconnect with the Angel, or something else, and ask again.



                                  > spirit-boards. Geomancy is another good option:
                                  >
                                  > http://kheph777.tripod.com/gd_geomancy.html
                                  >
                                  > Near the top you'll find the yes/no method. Or you can just squill and use even numbers of dots for yes and odd for no.



                                  I thought I had read all your blog posts. I didn't know you had a geomancy post.
                                  I look forward to reading that tomorrow. The brain is too tired tonight :-/



                                  > To do the divination, just make a talisman or icon for the angel in question, along with an invocation to call it. Have a candle of the proper color and the proper incnese burning when you recite the invocation, then invite the entity to speak with you through the oracle.
                                  >


                                  Speaking of this, I recently wood-burned a Saturn talisman that is just to lay out when I do geomancy. The whole Saturn in Scorpio thing may be nasty in many ways, but it's rather nice for tapping Earth (Saturn) to do divination (Scorpio).

                                  The combination of laying this out on the table and observing the proper planetary hours for the question has proved pretty useful in getting clearer answers.


                                  In LVX,
                                  Magus


                                  http://thaumaturgy777.com/
                                • AaronL
                                  ... Ah yes, that looks quite sound to me. :) ... That one isn t on my blog, it is in an essay on my writings website. Lots of my old stuff is found there.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 12, 2013
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                                    --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "thaumaturgy777" <thaumaturgy777@...> wrote:

                                    > I would say that the tarot can be very useful for yes/no answers, in this way:
                                    >
                                    > Shuffle the cards thoroughly, making sure that when you cut the deck, you flip one half. Keep doing that until your Angel/Spirit/Intuition tells you to stop. Then, you have a whole deck of yes or no answers, in that an upright card is YES and inverted means NO.
                                    >
                                    > I recommend drawing randomly from a point in the deck that feels right, rather than drawing from the top. Also, pay attention to the card that comes up. For example, if the question is about money and the Two of Swords comes up, that is not as strong of an answer as if say the Five of Pentacles is drawn.
                                    >
                                    > If you draw the latter card, then you know you are on track and it helps you trust your yes or no answer. But the Sword card may tell you to rethink your question, center yourself more, reconnect with the Angel, or something else, and ask again.
                                    >

                                    Ah yes, that looks quite sound to me. :)

                                    > > spirit-boards. Geomancy is another good option:
                                    > >
                                    > > http://kheph777.tripod.com/gd_geomancy.html
                                    >
                                    > I thought I had read all your blog posts. I didn't know you had a geomancy post.
                                    > I look forward to reading that tomorrow. The brain is too tired tonight :-/
                                    >

                                    That one isn't on my blog, it is in an essay on my writings website. Lots of my old stuff is found there. In fact I need to update it...

                                    Also, if you click on one of my books from that writings page, you'll find a section called "useful posts" (or something like that) that links to all kinds of cool stuff that I have posted in the forums. (These days I just cross post them to my blog... maybe I need to cross post those to the blog too...)

                                    >
                                    > Speaking of this, I recently wood-burned a Saturn talisman that is just to lay out when I do geomancy. The whole Saturn in Scorpio thing may be nasty in many ways, but it's rather nice for tapping Earth (Saturn) to do divination (Scorpio).
                                    >
                                    > The combination of laying this out on the table and observing the proper planetary hours for the question has proved pretty useful in getting clearer answers.
                                    >

                                    Very nice. :) Also, that Geomancy essay I linked to that you say you're going to read might be *very* helpful - since it is written specifically for Golden Dawn students (who often find the Order's method of Geomancy confusing, unless you know the simple secrets I reveal in that essay).

                                    LVX
                                    Aaron
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