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Re: [Solomonic] Re: "The Dagger" VS. The Black Handled Knife

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  • Ye Silver Owl
    Aaron, Thanks! I ve actually heard of the black handled knife/Athame being used similar to the lance in that it was stuck in the ground in the center of the
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 29, 2013
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      Aaron,

      Thanks! I've actually heard of the black handled knife/Athame being used similar to the "lance" in that it was stuck in the ground in the center of the circle. I do not yet have a white handled knife, but it's next on my list of things to acquire. The wonderful Gary over at http://www.omegaartworks.com/%c2%a0made my black handled knife for me, and he's going to do my white handled knife as well. As I have moved away from the more NeoPagan forms of Witchcraft into something more traditional I've slowly been making or acquiring the grimoiric tools as explained in the traditions I am inspired by. I don't have a sword and don't really feel the need for one, at least as long as I am working alone. In group work perhaps it would be more appropriate.

      Chris


      ________________________________
      From: AaronL <kheph777@...>
      To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:32 PM
      Subject: [Solomonic] Re: "The Dagger" VS. The Black Handled Knife



       
      Greetings!

      The two primary daggers in the Solomonic system are the same two adopted in Wicca: the whitle-hilted knife and the black-hilted knife.

      The whtie one is for cutting herbs, or string/thread, or paper, or anything else connected with the magickal art.

      The black knife is for inscribing the circle and for brandishing at hostile spirits. So far as I can tell, the Sword is just an extension of the black-hilted knife. Jake might be right about the Sword being a later addition, as it has the *exact* same function as the black-hilted knife.

      Then there is also a "quill knife" or "short lance" that is used in the tracing of the magick circle. The quill knife or lance (and I think one part of the text suggests using a sickle for the same purpose) is thrust into the ground at the center of the circle. Then a nine-foot black cord is tied around it, and the black-hilted knife or sword is tied to the other end. You now have a giant compass to use in tracing out the Circle with the black-hilted knife or sword.

      LVX
      Aaron

      --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Ye Silver Owl <ghowl33@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ah ha, good to know. I see the Mathers translation has many different blades shown, but they aren't really explained; I am guessing this is why. There is a relatively new translation out done by David Rankine and Stephen Skinner that I really want; it's on my wish list now. I know that Paul Huston worked with an older, different translation when writing "Mastering Witchcraft." The sigils he shows for the knife and wand are slightly different from the Mathers ones.
      >
      > R.
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Jake Stratton-Kent <jakestrattonkent@...>
      > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:29 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Solomonic] "The Dagger" VS. The Black Handled Knife
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      > the dagger is about the only instrument in the KoS where clear
      > mentions of its use occurs in the ritual texts. Swords are mentioned
      > in telling where the disciples stand, or what position in the
      > procession they take, but these appear to be more recent and decidedly
      > secondary. It really looks like the sword was a later aristocratic
      > substitute for the dagger, problem being it isn't half as versatile.
      > Most of the blades mentioned in the big chapter on instruments are
      > scribal duplications (for instance, a scimitar is a sword) partly
      > explaining why there is no indication what they are for. The black
      > hilted dagger on the other hand can be traced back to Cretan folk
      > magic and Greek MSS, it is highly traditional and important, where
      > several other blades are later additions of misunderstandings.
      >
      > Jake
      >
      > http://www.underworldapothecary.com/
      >
      > On 27 April 2013 06:49, Ye Silver Owl <ghowl33@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > My own background and area of interest has been Traditional Witchcraft and British Traditional Wicca. As was recommended to me, my Athame bears the sigils from the Key of Solomon and was consecrated in something of a similar manner. Over time I became curious about the origins of the Athame, what the sigils meant, the variations on the magical circle, etc which is what lead to the beginning of my research into Ceremonial Magic. One thing I have noticed is that there are many instruments, blades especially, whose function I am unsure of, the dagger being only one of them.
      > >
      > > Raven
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Nick Nichols <ozusmvmcga@...>
      > > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 4:40 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Solomonic] "The Dagger" VS. The Black Handled Knife
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > You know thats an interesting question and here is one more to add; I have been using an antique british spear tip (unused) as my Athame and find it feels right I have read in passing that the athame originally may have been a spear tip has any one else seen or heard that or do i need to stop operating for awhile. Sorry R. this just pushed me to ask now, thank you for bringing it up.
      > > Oz.
      > >
      > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:41 AM, Ye Silver Owl wrote:
      > >
      > >> Forgive me for asking what may be a basic question, but what is the difference in use between the "dagger" and the "black handled knife" in the Key of Solomon. The translation I've been looking at, the Mathers one, seems a bit unclear. I have noticed that the sigils on the "dagger" sometimes show up on the modern Athame in addition to/instead of the ones he gives for the black handled knife.
      > >>
      > >> Thanks!
      > >>
      > >> R.
      > >>
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      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available! Let me know what you think.
      > > http://kheph777.tripod.com/indexsecrets.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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