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Re: A Lion's skin

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  • sumpuo
    can you kindly explain the uses of the lion s skin to me through this e-mail provided below: latino_tino@yahoo.com if you have other stuff which will be good
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 18, 2013
      can you kindly explain the uses of the lion's skin to me through this e-mail provided below: latino_tino@...
      if you have other stuff which will be good for me.examples are books and etc
    • Brother Invulnerable
      Greetings I would like to discuss the purpose of this piece if you are interested. Why do you feel this is included in the goetia? Brother Invulnerable
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 24, 2013
        Greetings

        I would like to discuss the purpose of this piece if you are interested. Why do you feel this is included in the goetia? Brother Invulnerable

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • R~
        Honestly, Bro, I think it is one of many things written into the texts by aristocrats and the church militant who co-opted the tradition from the ancients and
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 24, 2013
          Honestly, Bro, I think it is one of many things written into the texts
          by aristocrats and the church militant who co-opted the tradition from
          the ancients and peoples of late-pagan antiquity - like the sword and
          the use of all that gold. But that's just my sarcastic opinion, and I
          could be wrong. Maybe there is some degree of divine favor that comes to
          those who skin lions (or those who buy the skin from those who skin
          lions). Is traditional magic only available to the church and the
          aristocracy? I don't think so.

          Roy

          On 6/24/2013 10:56 PM, Brother Invulnerable wrote:
          > Greetings
          >
          > I would like to discuss the purpose of this piece if you are interested. Why do you feel this is included in the goetia? Brother Invulnerable
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jake Stratton-Kent
          On 25 June 2013 04:56, Brother Invulnerable ... lots in the group archives on this. One possibility: the Goetia is known to be part cut & paste, it borrows
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 25, 2013
            On 25 June 2013 04:56, Brother Invulnerable
            <brotherinvulnerable@...> wrote:
            > Greetings
            >
            > I would like to discuss the purpose of this piece if you are interested. Why do you feel this is included in the goetia? Brother Invulnerable

            lots in the group archives on this.

            One possibility: the Goetia is known to be part cut & paste, it
            borrows substantially from Scot's 'Discoverie of Witchcraft' (for
            example, for its spirit catalogue), which also includes belts of bear
            skin and of snake.

            Another possibility, not necessarily excluding the former: it is
            sympathetic magic to induce courage (in the face of demons).
            References to this will be in the archives. They lead to the 'Book of
            Secrets' tradition which encourages folks to wear lion skin for this
            purpose... or the smock of a harlot. Both lions and harlots are bold,
            and items once belonging to them can transmit this quality. For some
            reason folks go on Ebay to get lion hide, rather than ask a friendly
            tart for some discarded clothing, - not very brave of them really :P

            Having the kit and knowing what it means are two different things.
            A good swordsman can defend himself with a stick,

            ALWays

            Jake

            http://www.underworldapothecary.com/
          • Julian
            ... Or maybe the ultimate source was Ancient Egypt, wherein the lion Goddess Sekhmet could be considered the wrathful form of the Goddess Hathor--who was
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 25, 2013
              On 6/25/2013 4:53 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent wrote:
              > They lead to the 'Book of
              > Secrets' tradition which encourages folks to wear lion skin for this
              > purpose... or the smock of a harlot.

              Or maybe the ultimate source was Ancient Egypt, wherein the lion
              Goddess Sekhmet could be considered the "wrathful" form of the Goddess
              Hathor--who was Herself somewhat of an Aphrodite parallel and arguably
              therefore a "harlot".
            • Jake Stratton-Kent
              ... lol, maybe, though the line from the Book of Secrets to the grimoires is both short and very easy to draw. Though not as easy as going online and bidding
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 25, 2013
                On 25 June 2013 14:24, Julian <belfire1@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 6/25/2013 4:53 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent wrote:
                >> They lead to the 'Book of
                >> Secrets' tradition which encourages folks to wear lion skin for this
                >> purpose... or the smock of a harlot.
                >
                > Or maybe the ultimate source was Ancient Egypt, wherein the lion
                > Goddess Sekhmet could be considered the "wrathful" form of the Goddess
                > Hathor--who was Herself somewhat of an Aphrodite parallel and arguably
                > therefore a "harlot".

                lol, maybe, though the line from the Book of Secrets to the grimoires
                is both short and very easy to draw. Though not as easy as going
                online and bidding on Ebay.
              • Brother Invulnerable
                God damn it jake that's good! I didn't know there was snake and bear skin belts! But I had long felt that the belt could be made from other animals,
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 25, 2013
                  God damn it jake that's good! I didn't know there was snake and bear skin belts! But I had long felt that the belt could be made from other animals, such as wolf or bear. But I hadn't thought about snake! That is another fascinating possibility. I do think it needs to be a predator tho, deer or cow skin just won't do. I made mine out of the skin of a cat the I ran over with my truck on accident. It had been living on my porch for years and I fed it so I figured it was an even trade, and I didn't mean to run over it. So yeah it was a little gruesome to skin and salt, but once it was done, it is the real deal, there's a pic in the files area of bro I if you look real close.

                  My opinion is that the spirit of the animal fuses with that of the magician as his shamanic totem, see we are divided into parts, and one of our parts is an instinctual drive, called by Freud the Id and by kabalists the nephesh. That part of the soul is on the plane that the goetia spirits live on. When you strap on that belt, the wild animal soul that is connected to it is invoked, and blends with your astral body, making it enflamed with energy, connected to the world of the dead, after all its a ghost, and ready to operate. I can tell you from experiance that the ghost of that cat is very present when we operate. And I have always wanted to have a belt of wolf ,bear,cougar or lion.....but snake? Wow. Hadn't thought of that. Cool. Bro I

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bryan Garner
                  The lion skin belt or girdle was a Lemegeton vestment requisite I spent a lot of time researching and later, appreciating the meaning of whilst making it and
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 25, 2013
                    The lion skin belt or girdle was a Lemegeton vestment requisite I spent a lot of time researching and later, appreciating the meaning of whilst making it and more so after wearing it during goetic operations. Coming about it from the standpoint that each piece of magical clothing is a functional part of the ceremony is essential for discovering the functions of these vestments. Further, understanding that every listed vestment is a priestly garment or emblem of divine authority is necessarily to completely appreciate the full meaning and function of them.
                     
                    The Solomonic cycle of magic is steeped in a rich framework of Judeo-Christian cultural, spiritual, religious, and spiritual customs. Though there are obvious parallels to pagan and older cultural practices, the magical vestments are suited for the spiritual practices and times they were found in. As such, a measure of understanding can be apprehended when the lion skin belt is viewed against other belts/girdles of the clergy class of both Christian and Jewish origin.
                     
                      “The Torah provides for specific vestments to be worn by the priests when they are ministering in the Tabernacle: "And you shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for dignity and for beauty" (Exodus 28:2). These garments are described in detail in Exodus 28, Exodus 39 and Leviticus 8. The high priest wore eight holy garments (bigdei kodesh). Of these, four were of the same type worn by all priests, and four were unique to the Kohen Gadol.“
                     
                    Obviously the inclusion of what the priests were to wear down to every detail has carried down through the Judaic tradition into the Catholic, Christian customs as well. Nothing was done or worn without specific reason, function, and purpose.
                     
                    Those vestments which were common to all priests, were:
                     
                    Priestly undergarments (Hebrew michnasayim) (breeches): linen pants reaching from the waist to the knees "to cover their nakedness" (Exodus 28:42)  Later we have the introduction of the very similar Linen robe or alb which is a staple of Grimoric vestments.
                     
                    Priestly tunic (Hebrew ketonet) (tunic): made of pure linen, covering the entire body from the neck to the feet, with sleeves reaching to the wrists. That of the High Priest was embroidered (Exodus 28:39); those of the priests were plain (Exodus 28:40).
                     
                    Priestly sash (Hebrew avnet) (sash): that of the High Priest was of fine linen with "embroidered work" in blue and purple and scarlet (Exodus 28:39, 39:29); those worn by the priests were of white, twined linen.
                     
                    Here we have the first mention of a priestly “girdle”, and girdle it was since it was indented to be wrapped several times around the midst of the torso to secure the robes firmly around the body.
                     
                    In the later, Catholic context, we have the cincture which has taken on many varieties from a simple woven cord to a wide sash worn on the waist. The cincture is the cord used as a belt to gird the Alb. It symbolizes the virtues of chastity and continence (meaning "the exercise of self constraint in sexual matters") required of the priest. It comes in many colors. In both the Jewish and Christian context the girdle is meant to gird up, human, sexual energies, and “constrain” the priest/magician from letting their animal natural be enticed or excited/manipulated by the spirits.
                    Consider that later in 777 for the lion's skin girdle is recommended to be inscribed with the colors vermilion and scarlet - symbolizing the lion, Venus, fire, girdle that binds, love. Possibly, these parallels have been considered before.
                     
                     
                    So why lion skin? I’ve also read many theories and arguments, many which seem to make since, particularly when figures in biblical or poplar legend are recalled.
                     
                    As before, the best places to start when trying to understand religious/spiritual symbolism for the grimories is to cover the Greek, Jewish, and surrounding older cultural references. Consider the below:
                     
                    ARIEL: Anglicized form of Hebrew unisex Ari'el, meaning "lion of god." In the bible, this is a name applied to the city of Jerusalem, and the name of a chief of the returning exiles. In the Apocrypha, this is the name of an archangel who rules the waters (underworld). It is also the name of a moon of Uranus, and the name of a spirit in Shakespeare's play "The Tempest."  Areli is the Anglicized form of Hebrew Ar'eliy, meaning "lion of God." In the bible, this is the name of a son of Gad. Gad is the Hebrew name meaning "troop." In the bible, this is the name of a prophet and the seventh son of Jacob by Zilpah.
                     
                     -The lion in reference to this would be an obvious and fierce parallel to a having a warrior like control over the dark underworld or sublunar spirit realm.
                     
                    AHASUERUS (אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹש): Latin form of Greek Xerxes, meaning "great warrior" or "lion-king." In the bible, this is the name of a king of Persia. His Hebrew name is Achashverosh. 
                    The legend of the Nemean Lion in Greek mythos may also have some significance for the symbolism.(Greek: Λέων τῆς Νεμέας (Léōn tēs Neméas); Latin: Leo Nemaeus) was a vicious monster in Greek mythology that lived at Nemea. It could not be killed with mortal weapons because its golden fur was impervious to attack. Its claws were sharper than mortal swords and could cut through any armor. The lion was eventually killed by Heracles. The Nemean lion is usually considered to have been the offspring of Typhon (or Orthrus) and Echidna; it is also said to have fallen from the moon as the offspring of Zeus and Selene, or alternatively born of the Chimera. The Nemean lion was sent to Nemea in the Peloponnesus to terrorize the city.
                    While searching for the lion, Heracles fetched some arrows to use against it, not knowing that its golden fur was impenetrable; when he found and shot the lion and firing at it with his bow, ( NOW PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART!) he discovered the fur's protective property when the arrow bounced harmlessly off the creature's thigh.  (hmmmmmm, interesting)
                     
                    After slaying the lion, he tried to skin it with a knife from his belt, but failed. He then tried sharpening the knife with a stone and even tried with the stone itself. Finally, Athena, noticing the hero's plight, told Heracles to use one of the lion's own claws to skin the pelt.
                    The Nemean lion's coat was impervious to the elements and all but the most powerful weapons. Others say that Heracles' armor was, in fact, the hide of the lion of Cithaeron.
                    It is not certain but then again not a stretch to assume the magician who included the lion skin belt in the Lemegeton was aware of the above Greek legend.
                     
                    My predecessor and advisor into traditional Lemegeton Goetia workings, John King/Imperial arts relates his experiences of conjuring from the Goetia both before and after he acquired the lion hide belt. Apparently the absence of the belt seemed to allow the summoned spirit to have some measure of control over him after he was licensed to depart. Mr. King accounts for the spirit fulfilling its terms by imbuing him with superior rhetoric and debating skills, but altering his voice to “sound like a pirate” every time he spoke. He mentioned how such effects were mitigated once the belt became a part of his evocations.
                     
                    My personal assessment of this particular vestment is that is serves a specific and unique function. It was most likely included to goetic workings at a LATER date by a magician who had worked with other Solomonic (KoS/Heptameron) conjuring arts over the years. To me it appears to be a vestment requisite that was included after several experiments had already been previously conducted.
                    The lion girdle is the magician’s circle outside of the circle. It symbolizes and embodies the entire cosmos of creation, the celestial spheres, and Kabalistic realms of spiritual influence (due to its symbolic inscriptions). Through the hide of fierce power and solar rule The belt of divine and cosmic authority is wrapped about the mage in an undeniable enclosure of divine protection as well as discipline (obedience, self controlled adherence to God’s will)
                     
                    -I did attempt a few Goetia conjurations before acquiring the complete assortment of the ritual implements and vestments listed in the Lemegeton’s Goetia. Luckily, no severe misfortunes befell me as a result of not having the belt on, but then again the  experiences and results of those early evocations did not compare to my recent workings where the ritual is performed to the exact specifications of the text.
                     
                    The “before and after” comparison is hardly worth mentioning since the two stages of those practices are so remarkably different. My further assessment on the belt is purely intuitive and based on presumption. I have no plans to perform goetic workings without the lion girdle just to experiment, but I feel it severely limits the allowances of the conjured spirits (and baser instincts) to manipulate the magician where there were opportunities beforehand. There are many energetic, intentional, and systematic loopholes that the spirits will exploit when there is opportunity.  I have read examples of this in countless relations of evocations where the magician got what he asked for in a sense but received heavy doses of misfortune and unintended side effects as an added result.
                     
                    To my knowledge, I have not noticed any additional negative variables when my requests were carried out by the spirits, nor have I sensed or seen them around during inopportune times after the ceremony. Whether or not the belt is solely responsible for this, I cannot say, but it does seem to be a much needed additional level of security/protection against the possible miscalculations, mistakes, or inaccuracies enacted by the magician which the spirit might utilize for its advantage.
                     
                    Hope that helped,
                     
                    -Ashen


                    ________________________________
                    From: Jake Stratton-Kent jakestrattonkent@...

                     
                     
                     
                    > I would like to discuss the purpose of this piece if you are interested. Why do you feel this is included in the goetia? Brother Invulnerable

                    lots in the group archives on this.

                    One possibility: the Goetia is known to be part cut & paste, it
                    borrows substantially from Scot's 'Discoverie of Witchcraft' (for
                    example, for its spirit catalogue), which also includes belts of bear
                    skin and of snake.

                    Another possibility, not necessarily excluding the former: it is
                    sympathetic magic to induce courage (in the face of demons).
                    References to this will be in the archives. They lead to the 'Book of
                    Secrets' tradition which encourages folks to wear lion skin for this
                    purpose... or the smock of a harlot. Both lions and harlots are bold,
                    and items once belonging to them can transmit this quality. For some
                    reason folks go on Ebay to get lion hide, rather than ask a friendly
                    tart for some discarded clothing, - not very brave of them really :P

                    Having the kit and knowing what it means are two different things.
                    A good swordsman can defend himself with a stick,

                    ALWays

                    Jake

                    http://www.underworldapothecary.com/



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Brother Invulnerable
                    Thanks Brian! Your views are greatly appreciated. I might add that when I got my catskin, the ritual power doubled as well. Bro I [Non-text portions of this
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 25, 2013
                      Thanks Brian! Your views are greatly appreciated. I might add that when I got my catskin, the ritual power doubled as well. Bro I

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Desi
                      Hi, Bro I Just reminding you all that I still have that Lion s skin whihc I brought from Ivory Coast last February. Incidently, I am back in Ivory Coast and
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 7, 2013
                        Hi, Bro I
                        Just reminding you all that I still have that Lion's skin whihc I brought from Ivory Coast last February.
                        Incidently, I am back in Ivory Coast and will return to England in two months' time. Many skins here that I can buy. if anybody needs one in particular, i could purchase it here and sell it back to them at my return.
                        Desi

                        --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Brother Invulnerable <brotherinvulnerable@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > God damn it jake that's good! I didn't know there was snake and bear skin belts! But I had long felt that the belt could be made from other animals, such as wolf or bear. But I hadn't thought about snake! That is another fascinating possibility. I do think it needs to be a predator tho, deer or cow skin just won't do. I made mine out of the skin of a cat the I ran over with my truck on accident. It had been living on my porch for years and I fed it so I figured it was an even trade, and I didn't mean to run over it. So yeah it was a little gruesome to skin and salt, but once it was done, it is the real deal, there's a pic in the files area of bro I if you look real close.
                        >
                        > My opinion is that the spirit of the animal fuses with that of the magician as his shamanic totem, see we are divided into parts, and one of our parts is an instinctual drive, called by Freud the Id and by kabalists the nephesh. That part of the soul is on the plane that the goetia spirits live on. When you strap on that belt, the wild animal soul that is connected to it is invoked, and blends with your astral body, making it enflamed with energy, connected to the world of the dead, after all its a ghost, and ready to operate. I can tell you from experiance that the ghost of that cat is very present when we operate. And I have always wanted to have a belt of wolf ,bear,cougar or lion.....but snake? Wow. Hadn't thought of that. Cool. Bro I
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • rufuscoppertop
                        ... Oh man. I wish you were coming to Australia.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 7, 2013
                          --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Desi" <desi.magia@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi, Bro I
                          > Just reminding you all that I still have that Lion's skin whihc I brought from Ivory Coast last February.
                          > Incidently, I am back in Ivory Coast and will return to England in two months' time. Many skins here that I can buy. if anybody needs one in particular, i could purchase it here and sell it back to them at my return.
                          > Desi

                          Oh man. I wish you were coming to Australia.
                        • Desi
                          Sorry, man this Pom ain t coming to OZ for at least five years. Just wondering, Could I make the lion s belts and sell them on my amazon page?
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 10, 2013
                            Sorry, man this Pom ain't coming to OZ for at least five years.
                            Just wondering, Could I make the lion's belts and sell them on my amazon page?

                            --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "rufuscoppertop" <rufuscoppertop@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Desi" <desi.magia@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi, Bro I
                            > > Just reminding you all that I still have that Lion's skin whihc I brought from Ivory Coast last February.
                            > > Incidently, I am back in Ivory Coast and will return to England in two months' time. Many skins here that I can buy. if anybody needs one in particular, i could purchase it here and sell it back to them at my return.
                            > > Desi
                            >
                            > Oh man. I wish you were coming to Australia.
                            >
                          • R~
                            ... No one has them trademarked, but there is the issue of doing it on your own - perhaps you should think about selling, rather than the whole skin or a
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 10, 2013
                              On 7/10/2013 10:28 AM, Desi wrote:
                              > Sorry, man this Pom ain't coming to OZ for at least five years.
                              > Just wondering, Could I make the lion's belts and sell them on my amazon page?
                              No one has them trademarked, but there is the issue of doing it on your
                              own - perhaps you should think about selling, rather than the whole skin
                              or a premade belt, selling pieces large enough to make into a belt...

                              Roy


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • rufuscoppertop
                              I honestly don t know. You could certainly sell them on ebay. The problem for me is Customs in this country are dynamite. I could check into it again but I m
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 11, 2013
                                I honestly don't know.

                                You could certainly sell them on ebay.

                                The problem for me is Customs in this country are dynamite.

                                I could check into it again but I'm pretty sure that tanned leather gets through but leather with fur still on it is deemed ultra-naughty.

                                The best chance would be to come over and wear it back or bring it back in my luggage. Or wait until I move to the UK which will hopefully happen later this year.



                                --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Desi" <desi.magia@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Sorry, man this Pom ain't coming to OZ for at least five years.
                                > Just wondering, Could I make the lion's belts and sell them on my amazon page?
                                >
                                > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "rufuscoppertop" <rufuscoppertop@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Desi" <desi.magia@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi, Bro I
                                > > > Just reminding you all that I still have that Lion's skin whihc I brought from Ivory Coast last February.
                                > > > Incidently, I am back in Ivory Coast and will return to England in two months' time. Many skins here that I can buy. if anybody needs one in particular, i could purchase it here and sell it back to them at my return.
                                > > > Desi
                                > >
                                > > Oh man. I wish you were coming to Australia.
                                > >
                                >
                              • Desi
                                Well, that can be done of course! if somebody would rather make the belt themsel ves, then I ll sell the skin to them.
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 14, 2013
                                  Well, that can be done of course! if somebody would rather make the belt themsel ves, then I'll sell the skin to them.
                                  --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, R~ <roy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > On 7/10/2013 10:28 AM, Desi wrote:
                                  > > Sorry, man this Pom ain't coming to OZ for at least five years.
                                  > > Just wondering, Could I make the lion's belts and sell them on my amazon page?
                                  > No one has them trademarked, but there is the issue of doing it on your
                                  > own - perhaps you should think about selling, rather than the whole skin
                                  > or a premade belt, selling pieces large enough to make into a belt...
                                  >
                                  > Roy
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Desi
                                  Ah! in that case you ll get it when you come over, I live in London. The mane was shaven from the skin before I travelled with it. I thought I d be stopped,
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jul 14, 2013
                                    Ah! in that case you'll get it when you come over, I live in London. The mane was shaven from the skin before I travelled with it. I thought I'd be stopped, but nothing happened. And the one I brought was huge...
                                    Desi
                                    --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "rufuscoppertop" <rufuscoppertop@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I honestly don't know.
                                    >
                                    > You could certainly sell them on ebay.
                                    >
                                    > The problem for me is Customs in this country are dynamite.
                                    >
                                    > I could check into it again but I'm pretty sure that tanned leather gets through but leather with fur still on it is deemed ultra-naughty.
                                    >
                                    > The best chance would be to come over and wear it back or bring it back in my luggage. Or wait until I move to the UK which will hopefully happen later this year.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Desi" <desi.magia@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Sorry, man this Pom ain't coming to OZ for at least five years.
                                    > > Just wondering, Could I make the lion's belts and sell them on my amazon page?
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "rufuscoppertop" <rufuscoppertop@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Desi" <desi.magia@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hi, Bro I
                                    > > > > Just reminding you all that I still have that Lion's skin whihc I brought from Ivory Coast last February.
                                    > > > > Incidently, I am back in Ivory Coast and will return to England in two months' time. Many skins here that I can buy. if anybody needs one in particular, i could purchase it here and sell it back to them at my return.
                                    > > > > Desi
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Oh man. I wish you were coming to Australia.
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
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