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Re: Grims- literal or not...and a few more comments/questions

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  • AaronL
    Tonight, I stumbled across the following article: Singing Sand Dunes: The Mystery of Desert Music
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 1, 2012
      Tonight, I stumbled across the following article:

      "Singing Sand Dunes: The Mystery of Desert Music"
      http://www.livescience.com/3788-singing-sand-dunes-mystery-desert-music.html

      I found what it had to say very interesting in light of our discussions about the grimoires and their often fantastical claims. Considering the Arabic sources for much of the grimoires' lore, note the opening lines of the article:

      "If you've never heard a sand dune rumble, listen up. Marco Polo in the 13th Century said the singing sands -- which he ascribed to evil desert spirits -- "at times fill the air with the sounds of all kinds of musical instruments, and also of drums and the clash of arms."

      One can easily imagine an Arabian conjuror taking disciples or witnesses out into the dessert to summon the Jinn, and taking the sounds of the dunes as signs of the arrival of the spirits. The spectral sounding of musical instruments (such as trumpets and drums) and the evocation of armed men are commonly promised throughout grimoiric literature.

      LVX
      Aaron
    • Rob
      I m not sure we have to reach this far... I ve seen and heard all sorts of things during evocations, even though I never got a clear image like someone
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 1, 2012
        I'm not sure we have to reach this far... I've seen and heard all sorts of things during evocations, even though I never got a clear image like someone standing in front of me. Rushing water, bells, far off singing, dancing lights, all the haunted house creepiness that you read about - seen pretty much all of it.

        All the best,

        Zadkiel / Ogbe Di


        --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "AaronL" <kheph777@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tonight, I stumbled across the following article:
        >
        > "Singing Sand Dunes: The Mystery of Desert Music"
        > http://www.livescience.com/3788-singing-sand-dunes-mystery-desert-music.html
        >
        > I found what it had to say very interesting in light of our discussions about the grimoires and their often fantastical claims. Considering the Arabic sources for much of the grimoires' lore, note the opening lines of the article:
        >
        > "If you've never heard a sand dune rumble, listen up. Marco Polo in the 13th Century said the singing sands -- which he ascribed to evil desert spirits -- "at times fill the air with the sounds of all kinds of musical instruments, and also of drums and the clash of arms."
        >
        > One can easily imagine an Arabian conjuror taking disciples or witnesses out into the dessert to summon the Jinn, and taking the sounds of the dunes as signs of the arrival of the spirits. The spectral sounding of musical instruments (such as trumpets and drums) and the evocation of armed men are commonly promised throughout grimoiric literature.
        >
        > LVX
        > Aaron
        >
      • hypnovatos
        I would have thought that the Armchairs would have been flying out for a chance such as this. I would say of the most important would be diaries such as those
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 7, 2012
          I would have thought that the Armchairs would have been flying out for a chance such as this.
          I would say of the most important would be diaries such as those by Dee which describe not on the work, but also the results and information gained.

          You are right, many times, these authors get put up on a pedestal, much like most countries do with their forefathers/founders. This is where work such as Aaron's comes into play where the author has done the work and put things into a perspective. Once works such as Secrets and various diaries such as Dee's are exhausted, the only thing left is to either try what you have before you and see what you get, or attempt to find an older source and see how things may have changed, and try the older sources and see what you get.

          -Hypnovatos

          --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, HUMBERTO MAGGI <aldajjal@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey, Adam
          > I think people tend to think too much of the grimoire writers. We must remember the age they lived, an era of superstition and persecution. We should not assume that they were more intelligent, learned, wise or that they had better sense than everybody else back them. We should not assume that they had better morals and would not lie or exaggerate their claims. Some of them could be just insane.
          > It was more easy at that time to believe that impossible things could happen. What we must ask is:
          > "How did they write the descriptions about the powers of the spirits? Where did they get the information?"
          > The possible answer are few:
          > 1. The imagined or assumed the spirits could do it.2. They really did or testified to someone who did it.3. They just received the information during a spirit conversation.4. They were using symbolic descriptions.
          > Let's give this debate some useful direction and analyse this.
          > HM
          >
        • Brother Invulnerable
          .....thought these were both interesting posts and adam, your right about the grimoire writers being a little crazy ,superstitious etc. but one thing that I
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 9, 2012
            .....thought these were both interesting posts and adam, your right about the grimoire writers being a little crazy ,superstitious etc. but one thing that I might add about them is that, having that fear of being burnt at the stake for your art could have driven them to study and take it seriously more than the modern age students. Also they lived in an age where there were less distractions like television and internet, so there focus was more pure in some ways. (the internet is a valuable tool for research tho)

            Also I think they were more in touch with the energies of the earth, and trees and stones, and animals.(as well as the seasons, and the phases of the moon.) Just because they were around them more, today's city dwellers are surrounded by concrete and steel. its really fascinating to look at their worldview openly and honestly and be able to see their strengths and weaknesses. BRO I 



            ________________________________
            From: hypnovatos <hypnovatos@...>
            To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2012 6:44 PM
            Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Grims- literal or not...and a few more comments/questions


             
            I would have thought that the Armchairs would have been flying out for a chance such as this.
            I would say of the most important would be diaries such as those by Dee which describe not on the work, but also the results and information gained.

            You are right, many times, these authors get put up on a pedestal, much like most countries do with their forefathers/founders. This is where work such as Aaron's comes into play where the author has done the work and put things into a perspective. Once works such as Secrets and various diaries such as Dee's are exhausted, the only thing left is to either try what you have before you and see what you get, or attempt to find an older source and see how things may have changed, and try the older sources and see what you get.

            -Hypnovatos

            --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, HUMBERTO MAGGI <aldajjal@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey, Adam
            > I think people tend to think too much of the grimoire writers. We must remember the age they lived, an era of superstition and persecution. We should not assume that they were more intelligent, learned, wise or that they had better sense than everybody else back them. We should not assume that they had better morals and would not lie or exaggerate their claims. Some of them could be just insane.
            > It was more easy at that time to believe that impossible things could happen. What we must ask is:
            > "How did they write the descriptions about the powers of the spirits? Where did they get the information?"
            > The possible answer are few:
            > 1. The imagined or assumed the spirits could do it.2. They really did or testified to someone who did it.3. They just received the information during a spirit conversation.4. They were using symbolic descriptions.
            > Let's give this debate some useful direction and analyse this.
            > HM
            >




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