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Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

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  • anandha shankar
    you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition mercury is called as buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 30, 2010
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      you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition mercury is called as buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .


      ________________________________
      From: Richard <thenovel_writer@...>
      To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
      Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?



      Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)

      I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim Casler
      ... Uh, no, copper and tin is bronze. Pewter is typically mostly tin with lead and antimony. These days the lead is omitted, but antimony is still used,
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 30, 2010
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        On 4/30/2010 2:21 AM, AaronL wrote:
        > Greetings!
        >
        > The Planet Mercury rules not only metallic Mercury, but also any metallic alloy. Therefore, I most often suggest Pewter. It is an alloy (tin and copper), and it is very malleable and has a silver color similar to metallic Mercury. Almost as if it were solidified Mercury.
        >
        > http://www.ehow.com/about_4596715_what-pewter-made.html
        >
        > Also, a good friend of mine often suggests that aluminum is in fact a good substitute for Mercury. It is made via an electrical process that makes it very harmonious with Mercurial forces.
        >
        > http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Aluminum.html
        >
        > LVX
        > Aaron
        >
        Uh, no, copper and tin is bronze. Pewter is typically mostly tin with
        lead and antimony. These days the lead is omitted, but antimony is still
        used, generally in proportions of under two percent antimony to 98% tin.

        Frater Cuniculus
      • Richard Palfrey
        Nah Aluminium I have tried. I don t think it is very good. I mean you can get effects on paper if you do it at the right time but I have found that metals work
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 30, 2010
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          Nah Aluminium I have tried. I don't think it is very good. I mean you can get effects on paper if you do it at the right time but I have found that metals work better. I would put using aluminium somewhere between the effects of paper and metal. I will try Pewter though. :) I have never tried that before it will be an interesting experiment at least. Thanks :)





          ________________________________
          From: AaronL <kheph777@...>
          To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 7:21:55
          Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Anyone know a Mercury substitute?


          Greetings!

          The Planet Mercury rules not only metallic Mercury, but also any metallic alloy. Therefore, I most often suggest Pewter. It is an alloy (tin and copper), and it is very malleable and has a silver color similar to metallic Mercury. Almost as if it were solidified Mercury.

          http://www.ehow com/about_ 4596715_what- pewter-made. html

          Also, a good friend of mine often suggests that aluminum is in fact a good substitute for Mercury. It is made via an electrical process that makes it very harmonious with Mercurial forces.

          http://www.madehow com/Volume- 5/Aluminum. html

          LVX
          Aaron

          --- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, "Richard" <thenovel_writer@ ...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)
          >
          > I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?
          >







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tlg
          FC is the wikipedia page wrong then?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter it says: * Pewter* is a malleable
          Message 4 of 25 , May 1, 2010
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            FC is the wikipedia page wrong then?:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter

            it says:
            *"Pewter* is a malleable <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable>
            metal<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal>
            alloy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy>, traditionally between 85 and 99
            percent tin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin>, with the remainder
            consisting of copper <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper>,
            antimony<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimony>,
            bismuth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth> and
            lead<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead>.
            Copper and antimony act as hardeners while lead is common in the lower
            grades of pewter, which have a bluish tint."

            here the description of bronze ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze ):
            "*Bronze* is a metal alloy
            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_alloy>consisting primarily of
            copper <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper>, usually with
            tin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin>as the main additive, but
            sometimes with other
            elements <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element> such as
            phosphorus<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus>,
            manganese <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese>,
            aluminium<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium>,
            or silicon <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon>."

            tlg

            2010/4/30 Jim Casler <jim.casler6553@...>

            >
            >
            > On 4/30/2010 2:21 AM, AaronL wrote:
            > > Greetings!
            > >
            > > The Planet Mercury rules not only metallic Mercury, but also any metallic
            > alloy. Therefore, I most often suggest Pewter. It is an alloy (tin and
            > copper), and it is very malleable and has a silver color similar to metallic
            > Mercury. Almost as if it were solidified Mercury.
            > >
            > > http://www.ehow.com/about_4596715_what-pewter-made.html
            > >
            > > Also, a good friend of mine often suggests that aluminum is in fact a
            > good substitute for Mercury. It is made via an electrical process that makes
            > it very harmonious with Mercurial forces.
            > >
            > > http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Aluminum.html
            > >
            > > LVX
            > > Aaron
            > >
            > Uh, no, copper and tin is bronze. Pewter is typically mostly tin with
            > lead and antimony. These days the lead is omitted, but antimony is still
            > used, generally in proportions of under two percent antimony to 98% tin.
            >
            > Frater Cuniculus
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Richard Palfrey
            yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as
            Message 5 of 25 , May 1, 2010
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              yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as well. I'm really looking for a pure metal though. But then maybe that in itself goes against the properties of Mercury, for example its colour are mixed





              ________________________________
              From: anandha shankar <ashankar88@...>
              To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 8:34:20
              Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?




              you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition mercury is called as buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: Richard <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
              To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
              Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
              Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

              Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)

              I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Roy
              You can make a form of solidified Mercury by bringing sulphur to a molten state and adding Mercury into it - the resultant substance is brittle, but solid,
              Message 6 of 25 , May 1, 2010
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                You can make a form of solidified Mercury by bringing sulphur to a
                molten state and adding Mercury into it - the resultant substance is
                brittle, but solid, moldable and will take a polish. The process is
                dangerous and requires special laboratory equipment (this has to be done
                in a sealed vessel, probably to retain the gases etc.) The Hindus have
                methods of making a solid Mercury that is (according to their claims)
                not poisonous to the touch, and samples can easily be found on the net.
                If you can find true cinnabar pigment (prepared from Mercury), it can
                easily be used to stain glass, as it was in old European church windows.

                Roy


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jim Casler
                ... Well, I ve never heard pewter described as an alloy of tin and copper before, I ll say that. OTOH, the proportions are about right, although these days, I
                Message 7 of 25 , May 1, 2010
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                  On 5/1/2010 10:20 AM, tlg wrote:
                  > FC is the wikipedia page wrong then?:
                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter
                  >
                  > it says:
                  > *"Pewter* is a malleable<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable>
                  > metal<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal>
                  > alloy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy>, traditionally between 85 and 99
                  > percent tin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin>, with the remainder
                  > consisting of copper<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper>,
                  > antimony<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimony>,
                  > bismuth<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth> and
                  > lead<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead>.
                  > Copper and antimony act as hardeners while lead is common in the lower
                  > grades of pewter, which have a bluish tint."
                  >
                  > here the description of bronze ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze ):
                  > "*Bronze* is a metal alloy
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_alloy>consisting primarily of
                  > copper<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper>, usually with
                  > tin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin>as the main additive, but
                  > sometimes with other
                  > elements<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element> such as
                  > phosphorus<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus>,
                  > manganese<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese>,
                  > aluminium<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium>,
                  > or silicon<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon>."
                  >
                  > tlg
                  >
                  Well, I've never heard pewter described as an alloy of tin and copper
                  before, I'll say that. OTOH, the proportions are about right, although
                  these days, I think pewter is generally made with the tin at around the
                  higher of the given proportions. Antimony is pretty much a given
                  (careful, it is about as poisonous as arsenic, to which it is closely
                  related), and bismuth, perhaps. Most modern pewter in this country is
                  lead-free nowadays. I think what got me was the "alloy of tin and
                  copper" statement, which, to me, connotes bronze rather than pewter,
                  because the proportions of other metals in the alloy (besides tin) are
                  rather small.

                  FC
                • R.J. Ray
                  From what I understand there are a number of formula for making what has come to be known as fixed mercury. Short of that, I have been considering using a
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 1, 2010
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                    From what I understand there are a number of formula for making what has come to be known as 'fixed mercury.' Short of that, I have been considering using a standard mercury\silver amalgam, which would be much simpler. Then again for those adverse to the use of metallic mercury in talismans, silver itself has become the standard replacement. It has far and away the best ability for maintaining magical ensoulment than any other metal except gold which is usually reserved for solar talismans. Sterling works just as well.

                    Cheers;

                    Frater EH'e...



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@...>
                    To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 9:59:08 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                    yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as well. I'm really looking for a pure metal though. But then maybe that in itself goes against the properties of Mercury, for example its colour are mixed





                    ________________________________
                    From: anandha shankar <ashankar88@...>
                    To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 8:34:20
                    Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                     


                    you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition  mercury is called as  buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .

                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                    From: Richard <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                    To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                    Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
                    Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                    Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)

                    I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                         

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available!  Let me know what you think.
                    http://kheph777.tripod.com/indexsecrets.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
                  • marsyas555
                    Although it s toxic, I believe cinnabar (mercury sulfide) is generally considered to be fixed mercury.
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 1, 2010
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                      Although it's toxic, I believe cinnabar (mercury sulfide) is generally considered to be 'fixed' mercury.

                      --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as well. I'm really looking for a pure metal though. But then maybe that in itself goes against the properties of Mercury, for example its colour are mixed
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: anandha shankar <ashankar88@...>
                      > To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 8:34:20
                      > Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition mercury is called as buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .
                      >
                      > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > From: Richard <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                      > To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                      > Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
                      > Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?
                      >
                      > Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)
                      >
                      > I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Bryan Garner
                      Roy, It s good to site John R. King when you use almost his exact quote from his book Imperial Arts about fixed Mercury. All, There is a an exact (if not
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                        Roy,

                        It's good to site John R. King when you use almost his exact quote from his book 'Imperial Arts' about fixed Mercury.

                        All,
                        There is a an exact (if not complicated) formulae for fixed Mercury for making talismans,
                        Etc. in Stephen Skinner and David Rankind's 'The Vertiable Key of Solomon'. I've heard of many people subsituting fixed Mercury for all sorts of metals and alloys even Zinc.

                        None of the magicians of the grimoires used those substitutes. None of them (brass, pewter, zinc, etc.) have any inharent relation or corrispondance to Mercury whatsoever. The above method mentioned by Roy/ Imperial Arts will work. It's not easy to make but not hard to find.

                        Bryan

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On May 1, 2010, at 4:03 PM, Roy <roy@...> wrote:

                        You can make a form of solidified Mercury by bringing sulphur to a
                        molten state and adding Mercury into it - the resultant substance is
                        brittle, but solid, moldable and will take a polish. The process is
                        dangerous and requires special laboratory equipment (this has to be done
                        in a sealed vessel, probably to retain the gases etc.) The Hindus have
                        methods of making a solid Mercury that is (according to their claims)
                        not poisonous to the touch, and samples can easily be found on the net.
                        If you can find true cinnabar pigment (prepared from Mercury), it can
                        easily be used to stain glass, as it was in old European church windows.

                        Roy

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Richard Palfrey
                        Yea I don t think Silver works either really. I think I m gonna try Brass first and then perhaps the Cinnabar thing. I have also been considering making a
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                          Yea I don't think Silver works either really. I think I'm gonna try Brass first and then perhaps the Cinnabar thing. I have also been considering making a hollow pentacle out of a metal and filling the inside with liquid mercury. I'm asuming it does not have to be visible, just as long as the metal is in there. I mean I know they say uncover it when a spirit is there and they will be astonished, but in my experience they seem to know where the pentacles are covered or not. Lots of ideas coming in. thanks a lot to everyone :)

                          Richard





                          ________________________________
                          From: R.J. Ray <rjraytoday@...>
                          To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, 2 May, 2010 1:53:11
                          Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?


                          From what I understand there are a number of formula for making what has come to be known as 'fixed mercury.' Short of that, I have been considering using a standard mercury\silver amalgam, which would be much simpler. Then again for those adverse to the use of metallic mercury in talismans, silver itself has become the standard replacement. It has far and away the best ability for maintaining magical ensoulment than any other metal except gold which is usually reserved for solar talismans. Sterling works just as well.

                          Cheers;

                          Frater EH'e...

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                          To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                          Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 9:59:08 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                          yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as well. I'm really looking for a pure metal though. But then maybe that in itself goes against the properties of Mercury, for example its colour are mixed

                          ____________ _________ _________ __
                          From: anandha shankar <ashankar88@yahoo. com>
                          To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                          Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 8:34:20
                          Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?



                          you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition mercury is called as buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .

                          ____________ _________ _________ __
                          From: Richard <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                          To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                          Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
                          Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                          Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)

                          I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ------------ --------- --------- ------

                          "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available! Let me know what you think.
                          http://kheph777. tripod.com/ indexsecrets. htmlYahoo! Groups Links







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • AaronL
                          ... Key of Solomon the king, Chapter 18, Concerning the Holy Pentacles or Medals: Saturn ruleth over lead; Jupiter over tin; Mars over iron; the Sun over
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                            --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Garner <bryanashen@...> wrote:

                            > None of the magicians of the grimoires used those substitutes. None of them (brass, pewter, zinc, etc.) have any inharent relation or corrispondance to Mercury whatsoever.
                            >

                            Key of Solomon the king, Chapter 18, Concerning the Holy Pentacles or Medals:

                            "Saturn ruleth over lead; Jupiter over tin; Mars over iron; the Sun over gold; Venus over copper; Mercury over the mixture of metals; and the Moon over silver."

                            The "mixture of metals" would indicate an alloy. We see this in practice in the Pauline Arts, where each zodiacal talisman is made from a specific alloy formula. These were adopted from the work of Paracelsus. If Kathy MacDonald is around, she can tell us about Paracelsus' versions in depth.

                            Also note from the same chapter of the Key of Solomon:

                            "Wherefore unto Saturn the colour of black is appropriated; Jupiter ruleth over celestial blue; Mars over red; the Sun over gold, or the colour of yellow or citron ; Venus over green: Mercury over mixed colours; the Moon over silver, or the colour of argentine earth."

                            Note that Mercury's color here is "mixed colours", further indicating the mixed nature of Mercury. This is because the study of Alchemy viewed all metals as a combination of some type of "sulpher" and liquid Mercury. Liquid Mercury has the property of easily making alloys with all other metals- where it hardens and becomes part of the new metal.

                            LVX
                            Aaron
                          • Jim Casler
                            ... A container for mercury pretty much MUST be made of iron. Mercury will dissolve most other metals. Amalgams are metals dissolved in mercury, for instance.
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                              On 5/3/2010 5:31 PM, Richard Palfrey wrote:
                              > Yea I don't think Silver works either really. I think I'm gonna try Brass first and then perhaps the Cinnabar thing. I have also been considering making a hollow pentacle out of a metal and filling the inside with liquid mercury. I'm asuming it does not have to be visible, just as long as the metal is in there. I mean I know they say uncover it when a spirit is there and they will be astonished, but in my experience they seem to know where the pentacles are covered or not. Lots of ideas coming in. thanks a lot to everyone :)
                              >
                              > Richard
                              >
                              A container for mercury pretty much MUST be made of iron. Mercury will
                              dissolve most other metals. Amalgams are metals dissolved in mercury,
                              for instance.
                              Frater Cuniculus
                            • Roy
                              ... I m sorry - I had that written in a notebook from a conversation with an alchemist friend of mine, I had no idea I was paraphrasing someone else. Maybe my
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                                On 5/3/2010 8:50 AM, Bryan Garner wrote:
                                > Roy,
                                >
                                > It's good to site John R. King when you use almost his exact quote from his book 'Imperial Arts' about fixed Mercury.
                                >
                                I'm sorry - I had that written in a notebook from a conversation with an
                                alchemist friend of mine, I had no idea I was paraphrasing someone else.
                                Maybe my friend was, or maybe it was a "coincidence" type of thing, but
                                I had no idea. It's a messy process that requires a hood and mask, and
                                IMHO dangerous for those with little experience. We were discussing the
                                antimony processes (Basil Valentine) when he mentioned it. I certainly
                                would have cited his work had I known.

                                R


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Bryan Garner
                                Ahh yes, thank you for that. Forgot that quote. Been so use to working with the Goetia which says to make Mercury from Mercury which, as you say is an
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                                  Ahh yes, thank you for that. Forgot that quote. Been so use to working with the Goetia which says to make " Mercury from Mercury" which, as you say is an alloy, -mixture of metals- but thanks for pointing that out/reminding Aaron

                                  I suppose for me, just ANY mixture of metals or common metal alloys wouldn't cut it. But that's me.

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On May 5, 2010, at 7:11 AM, "AaronL" <kheph777@...> wrote:



                                  --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Garner <bryanashen@...> wrote:

                                  > None of the magicians of the grimoires used those substitutes. None of them (brass, pewter, zinc, etc.) have any inharent relation or corrispondance to Mercury whatsoever.
                                  >

                                  Key of Solomon the king, Chapter 18, Concerning the Holy Pentacles or Medals:

                                  "Saturn ruleth over lead; Jupiter over tin; Mars over iron; the Sun over gold; Venus over copper; Mercury over the mixture of metals; and the Moon over silver."

                                  The "mixture of metals" would indicate an alloy. We see this in practice in the Pauline Arts, where each zodiacal talisman is made from a specific alloy formula. These were adopted from the work of Paracelsus. If Kathy MacDonald is around, she can tell us about Paracelsus' versions in depth.

                                  Also note from the same chapter of the Key of Solomon:

                                  "Wherefore unto Saturn the colour of black is appropriated; Jupiter ruleth over celestial blue; Mars over red; the Sun over gold, or the colour of yellow or citron ; Venus over green: Mercury over mixed colours; the Moon over silver, or the colour of argentine earth."

                                  Note that Mercury's color here is "mixed colours", further indicating the mixed nature of Mercury. This is because the study of Alchemy viewed all metals as a combination of some type of "sulpher" and liquid Mercury. Liquid Mercury has the property of easily making alloys with all other metals- where it hardens and becomes part of the new metal.

                                  LVX
                                  Aaron







                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • R.J. Ray
                                  Well good luck. If you decide to try cinnabar be sure you remain upwind of the pot so that the fumes flow away on the wind while heating. Naturally you need to
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                                    Well good luck. If you decide to try cinnabar be sure you remain upwind of the pot so that the fumes flow away on the wind while heating. Naturally you need to do it outside unless you have a vented glove box in your home lab:). As to filling a metal container - I just recently received some silver coins for melting. Each came in a very tight fitting plastic coin case. You can buy them at any coin shop. I thought about molding the seal of Mercury into some two-part epoxy inside one half of the coin container then filling the grove with liquid mercury and snapping the other side of the case in place. The result would be the shape of the seal in liquid mercury inside the clear plastic case. A little epoxy around the case edge before snapping the two sides together should ensure that no mercury ever leaks out. ymmv...

                                    Cheers;

                                    Frater EH'e

                                     


                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@...>
                                    To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:31:06 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                    Yea I don't think Silver works either really. I think I'm gonna try Brass first and then perhaps the Cinnabar thing. I have also been considering making a hollow pentacle out of a metal and filling the inside with liquid mercury. I'm asuming it does not have to be visible, just as long as the metal is in there. I mean I know they say uncover it when a spirit is there and they will be astonished, but in my experience they seem to know where the pentacles are covered or not. Lots of ideas coming in. thanks a lot to everyone :)

                                    Richard





                                    ________________________________
                                    From: R.J. Ray <rjraytoday@...>
                                    To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sun, 2 May, 2010 1:53:11
                                    Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                     
                                    From what I understand there are a number of formula for making what has come to be known as 'fixed mercury.' Short of that, I have been considering using a standard mercury\silver amalgam, which would be much simpler. Then again for those adverse to the use of metallic mercury in talismans, silver itself has become the standard replacement. It has far and away the best ability for maintaining magical ensoulment than any other metal except gold which is usually reserved for solar talismans. Sterling works just as well.

                                    Cheers;

                                    Frater EH'e...

                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                                    To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                    Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 9:59:08 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                    yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as well. I'm really looking for a pure metal though. But then maybe that in itself goes against the properties of Mercury, for example its colour are mixed

                                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                                    From: anandha shankar <ashankar88@yahoo. com>
                                    To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                    Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 8:34:20
                                    Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                     

                                    you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition  mercury is called as  buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .

                                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                                    From: Richard <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                                    To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                    Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
                                    Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                    Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)

                                    I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                         

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                                  • R.J. Ray
                                    Hi Roy; You said, We were discussing the antimony processes (Basil Valentine) when he mentioned it. Is this the one where you end up with a glass substance
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                                      Hi Roy;

                                      You said, "We were discussing the antimony processes (Basil Valentine) when he mentioned it."

                                      Is this the one where you end up with a glass substance (I think its supposed to be orange in color,) and is it a very complicated process? Any source offering the instruction that you know of? Or is it a major undertaking not for the inexperienced? I remember somthing about using antimony.

                                      TIA -

                                      Frater EH'e...

                                       


                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: Roy <roy@...>
                                      To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 8:49:13 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                      On 5/3/2010 8:50 AM, Bryan Garner wrote:
                                      > Roy,
                                      >
                                      > It's good to site John R. King when you use almost his exact quote from his book 'Imperial Arts' about fixed Mercury.
                                      >   
                                      I'm sorry - I had that written in a notebook from a conversation with an
                                      alchemist friend of mine, I had no idea I was paraphrasing someone else.
                                      Maybe my friend was, or maybe it was a "coincidence" type of thing, but
                                      I had no idea. It's a messy process that requires a hood and mask, and
                                      IMHO dangerous for those with little experience. We were discussing the
                                      antimony processes (Basil Valentine) when he mentioned it. I certainly
                                      would have cited his work had I known.

                                      R


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                    • Roy
                                      Triumphal Chariot of Antimony by Basil Valentine is the text. I think it s fairly easy to find on the web. Yep that s it - the glass dissolves and makes a
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 6, 2010
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                                        "Triumphal Chariot of Antimony" by Basil Valentine is the text. I think
                                        it's fairly easy to find on the web. Yep that's it - the glass dissolves
                                        and makes a very hot medicine. It's not that hard to make; the decision
                                        as to whether to take it or not is the hard part. Our conversation was
                                        about how other poisons work, homeopathy, and this method of treating
                                        Mercury (that's the old way of making the Cinnabar powder for stained
                                        glass, art history books have a lot of valuable information on stuff
                                        like that and gem counterfeiting too - ) as a possible homeopathic
                                        cinnabar pill (although the Chinese formula was a little different).

                                        Roy

                                        On 5/5/2010 8:22 PM, R.J. Ray wrote:
                                        > Hi Roy;
                                        >
                                        > You said, "We were discussing the antimony processes (Basil Valentine) when he mentioned it."
                                        >
                                        > Is this the one where you end up with a glass substance (I think its supposed to be orange in color,) and is it a very complicated process? Any source offering the instruction that you know of? Or is it a major undertaking not for the inexperienced? I remember somthing about using antimony.
                                        >
                                        > TIA -
                                        >
                                        > Frater EH'e...
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • MARCUS
                                        Hi,   I would like to know if anyone can lead in the right direction(a book or grimoire) for a seal or sigil of Sandalphon, different from the one in
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 6, 2010
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                                          Hi,
                                           
                                          I would like to know if anyone can lead in the right direction(a book or grimoire) for a seal or sigil of Sandalphon, different from the one in Konstantinos' Summoning Spirits.
                                           
                                          Thanks in advance for any input.
                                           
                                          Marcus




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Richard Palfrey
                                          Having researched it I have found that it is far too dangerous (for me). You can get liquid mercury from it just from scratching it with a pin. This is not
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 7, 2010
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                                            Having researched it I have found that it is far too dangerous (for me). You can get liquid mercury from it just from scratching it with a pin. This is not good seems as I intend to carry it around. I will go much the same idea as you with the incasing of Mercury but with Iron, as Frater Cuniculus said that other metals are destroyed by Mercury. I just dont think I could do the glass thing or plastic, I would definately like an outside of metal even if it is iron.




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: R.J. Ray <rjraytoday@...>
                                            To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Thu, 6 May, 2010 1:50:56
                                            Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?


                                            Well good luck. If you decide to try cinnabar be sure you remain upwind of the pot so that the fumes flow away on the wind while heating. Naturally you need to do it outside unless you have a vented glove box in your home lab:). As to filling a metal container - I just recently received some silver coins for melting. Each came in a very tight fitting plastic coin case. You can buy them at any coin shop. I thought about molding the seal of Mercury into some two-part epoxy inside one half of the coin container then filling the grove with liquid mercury and snapping the other side of the case in place. The result would be the shape of the seal in liquid mercury inside the clear plastic case. A little epoxy around the case edge before snapping the two sides together should ensure that no mercury ever leaks out. ymmv...

                                            Cheers;

                                            Frater EH'e



                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                            From: Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                                            To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                            Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:31:06 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                            Yea I don't think Silver works either really. I think I'm gonna try Brass first and then perhaps the Cinnabar thing. I have also been considering making a hollow pentacle out of a metal and filling the inside with liquid mercury. I'm asuming it does not have to be visible, just as long as the metal is in there. I mean I know they say uncover it when a spirit is there and they will be astonished, but in my experience they seem to know where the pentacles are covered or not. Lots of ideas coming in. thanks a lot to everyone :)

                                            Richard

                                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                                            From: R.J. Ray <rjraytoday@yahoo. com>
                                            To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                            Sent: Sun, 2 May, 2010 1:53:11
                                            Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?


                                            From what I understand there are a number of formula for making what has come to be known as 'fixed mercury.' Short of that, I have been considering using a standard mercury\silver amalgam, which would be much simpler. Then again for those adverse to the use of metallic mercury in talismans, silver itself has become the standard replacement. It has far and away the best ability for maintaining magical ensoulment than any other metal except gold which is usually reserved for solar talismans. Sterling works just as well.

                                            Cheers;

                                            Frater EH'e...

                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                            From: Richard Palfrey <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                                            To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                            Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 9:59:08 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                            yes. I thought maybe brass was the metal of the Earth, as it is used in containing the spirits in the Qoetia. I suppose it being a Mercury metal makes sense as well. I'm really looking for a pure metal though. But then maybe that in itself goes against the properties of Mercury, for example its colour are mixed

                                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                                            From: anandha shankar <ashankar88@ yahoo. com>
                                            To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                            Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 8:34:20
                                            Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?



                                            you can use brass instrd of aluminium because in hindu tradition mercury is called as buudhan (budha) his metal is brass and you can try it .

                                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                                            From: Richard <thenovel_writer@ yahoo.co. uk>
                                            To: solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com
                                            Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 12:24:24 PM
                                            Subject: [Solomonic] Anyone know a Mercury substitute?

                                            Hey people. Does anyone have a good Mercury subsitute or way of using Mercury in a Mercury Pentacle. I have tried Aluminium which doesn't seem to get the same effect out of Mercury as the other planets metals do out of them. I've heard glass, but that's not a metal. Is there anyone with any ideas on actual metals that you can make the Mercury Pentacles from. Or perhaps a wood that I could use instead. This would be of much help to me :)

                                            I had a look at the metals that seem to have been associated so far and decided that perhaps Magnesium sheet may be a substitute but I'm just not sure. Thoughts?

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            ------------ --------- --------- ------

                                            "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available! Let me know what you think.
                                            http://kheph777. tripod.com/ indexsecrets. htmlYahoo! Groups Links



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            ------------ --------- --------- ------

                                            "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available! Let me know what you think.
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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Mike Rock
                                            ... Gold is also suited to Venus for its superlative beauty, and to Jupiter for its temperance, and to Saturn for its weightiness. mike
                                            Message 21 of 25 , May 8, 2010
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                                              On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 7:53 PM, R.J. Ray <rjraytoday@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From what I understand there are a number of formula for making what has come to be known as 'fixed mercury.' Short of that, I have been considering using a standard mercury\silver amalgam, which would be much simpler. Then again for those adverse to the use of metallic mercury in talismans, silver itself has become the standard replacement. It has far and away the best ability for maintaining magical ensoulment than any other metal except gold which is usually reserved for solar talismans. Sterling works just as well.
                                              >
                                              > Cheers;
                                              >
                                              > Frater EH'e...
                                              >

                                              Gold is also suited to Venus for its superlative beauty, and to
                                              Jupiter for its temperance, and to Saturn for its weightiness.

                                              mike
                                            • Kubilai
                                              Gold is actually attributed to Venus in Eastern thought. Mercury is the same as in Western thought though.
                                              Message 22 of 25 , May 9, 2010
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                                                Gold is actually attributed to Venus in Eastern thought. Mercury is the same as in Western thought though.

                                                --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Mike Rock <mikerockatx@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 7:53 PM, R.J. Ray <rjraytoday@...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > From what I understand there are a number of formula for making whathas come to beknown as 'fixed mercury.' Short of that, I have been considering using a standard mercury\silver amalgam, which would be much simpler. Then again for those adverse to the use of metallic mercury in talismans, silver itself has become the standard replacement. It has far and away the best abilityfor maintaining magical ensoulment than any other metal except gold which is usually reserved for solar talismans. Sterling works just as well.
                                                > >
                                                > > Cheers;
                                                > >
                                                > > Frater EH'e...
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > Gold is also suited to Venus for its superlative beauty, and to
                                                > Jupiter for its temperance, and to Saturn for its weightiness.
                                                >
                                                > mike
                                                >
                                              • Mike Rock
                                                No I am talking about Western magic, not Eastern. It is straight from Agrippa TBOP. Crack it open and start reading... Don t teach your grandpa to suck eggs
                                                Message 23 of 25 , May 11, 2010
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                                                  No I am talking about Western magic, not Eastern. It is straight from
                                                  Agrippa TBOP. Crack it open and start reading...

                                                  Don't teach your grandpa to suck eggs please.

                                                  mike

                                                  On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 5:15 AM, Kubilai <n0m4n0r32@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Gold is actually attributed to Venus in Eastern thought. Mercury is the same as in Western thought though.
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Mike Rock <mikerockatx@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > Gold is also suited to Venus for its superlative beauty, and to
                                                  > > Jupiter for its temperance, and to Saturn for its weightiness.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > mike
                                                  > >
                                                  >
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