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Re: Enochian reference materials I-- comments solicited!!

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  • Terri Burns
    ... Yes, but imho there s no clear guide to the material that places it in its historical context and looks at why Dee and Kelley were trying to have their
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2009
      >
      > >>>>> i wonder why there's still so much mystery on enochian. there's plenty of "angels" to invoke there.
      >

      Yes, but imho there's no clear guide to the material that places it in its historical context and looks at why Dee and Kelley were trying to have their "angelic" conversations to begin with. In other words, if you use Zalewski's "Golden Dawn Enochian magic" (which I'm picking since its one of the few attempts to give a comprehensive look at the system, and not an account like Tyson's that thinks the angels have some dark and sinister motive and are looking at Dee and Kelley as pawns), you still don't have a discussion of the whole system, nor any historical context. There's a mystery about the system because its complicated and imho no one really understands it well, myself included. First instance, I'm convinced that to understand how the basic geometric structures in Enochian work, you first have to understand Dee's Hieroglyphic Monad at least through Theorem 22, and understand how he's using 4D geometry without calling it that (because there was no mathematical language for 4D at the time.)

      Crowley implies as much in Liber Chanokh, which is still imo the only attempt to place Enochian in an overall view of the universe (as Dee understood it) and look at how it was used to leverage effects in that universe, or prevent other negative effects. Dan Winter discusses the 4D aspects of Enochian, which he calls "Ophanic," based on the work of Vincent Bridges, but the discussion is over the heads of many people and even when it isn't, he's approaching it so differently from most ceremonial magicians that it seems there's little overlap in readership.

      Meanwhile, there are "little" matters like which version of the tablets are correct--many writing on the topic now would say none of them are. That makes some of the angelic names wrong, if, for instance, you're using the Golden Dawn tablets which is what most people use. Most people also use tablets with Roman letters rather than Enochian script, which kind of defeats the notion of using a letter as an image of power that could have self-referencing effects. And added to all this, there's the not-so minor notion of invoking angels when one isn't clear what that entity is an angel "for." You can find several examples in Dee's work where he invokes an angel and is told something like "that's not what I do; you should talk to someone else." Also, in terms of the Great Tree, where are these angels? If you look at Dee's other work, they have to be associated with Daat-- or the choir of angels associated with Chockmah, given form through Binah, and expressed "via" Daat. I don't think they will "express" themselves at all unless the geometric structures are aligned in a particular way, which can be done imperfectly with Golden-Dawn style tablets-- but imho could be done much, much better, and not blindly, if one understood the whole system in its context.

      LVX,

      Terri
    • Terri Burns
      ... Thanks for the tip. Rufus, what do you make of Jim Reeds deciphering of Book III of Stenografia? Did it make a difference on how you approached
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2009
        --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Jose Rodrigo <rodrigomontemayor@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes.
        >
        > Kristle: I've used Rufus Opus' mini-kit based on Trithemius' method. I strongly recommend it to you if you are new to this. It's available on his website, and it's well worth the cost.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Josephus
        >


        Thanks for the tip.

        Rufus, what do you make of Jim Reeds' deciphering of Book III of Stenografia? Did it make a difference on how you approached Trithemius?

        LVX,

        Terri
      • Rufus Opus
        No, it had no effect on how I approach Trithemius. I think he s an awesome cryptographer, a freakin genius, And it s the Steganographia, hidden writing. When
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2009
          No, it had no effect on how I approach Trithemius. I think he's an awesome cryptographer, a freakin' genius, And it's the Steganographia, hidden writing.

          When Agrippa talks about receiving messages from afar under the full moon, I believe he's referencing a similar cryptographic technique.

          Now, it's got to be noted that the likelihood of The Art of drawing Spirits into Crystals being an actual work by Trithemius is slim to none. It's as likely the product of Trithemius as the "Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy" was written by Agrippa. The rite of the AoDSIC is taken right out of the 4th Book, which I'm pretty sure was written long after Trithemius had become worm food.

          I think Francis Barret probably wrote both. Regardless, it's structured on the principles of neoplatonic conjure magic, it contacts the seven Governors of the planets, and in other words, it works.


          ----------------------------------------------
          I sit with the elders of a generation this world has seldom seen
          "Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis."

          Fr. Rufus Opus
          RufusOpus@...
          http://headforred.blogspot.com
          www.rufusopus.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Terri Burns
          To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:36 AM
          Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Enochian reference materials I-- comments solicited!!


          --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Jose Rodrigo <rodrigomontemayor@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes.
          >
          > Kristle: I've used Rufus Opus' mini-kit based on Trithemius' method. I strongly recommend it to you if you are new to this. It's available on his website, and it's well worth the cost.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Josephus
          >

          Thanks for the tip.

          Rufus, what do you make of Jim Reeds' deciphering of Book III of Stenografia? Did it make a difference on how you approached Trithemius?

          LVX,

          Terri





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Terri Burns
          ... Agreed-- ... Interesting-- I ve heard one other person say that, and never got around to asking why. Do you think that just because it looks like no one
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2009
            --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Rufus Opus" <rufusopus@...> wrote:
            >
            > No, it had no effect on how I approach Trithemius. I think he's an awesome cryptographer, a freakin' genius, And it's the Steganographia, hidden writing.
            >
            > When Agrippa talks about receiving messages from afar under the full moon, I believe he's referencing a similar cryptographic technique.
            >
            > Now, it's got to be noted that the likelihood of The Art of drawing Spirits into Crystals being an actual work by Trithemius is slim to none. It's as likely the product of Trithemius as the "Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy" was written by Agrippa. The rite of the AoDSIC is taken right out of the 4th Book, which I'm pretty sure was written long after Trithemius had become worm food.
            >

            Agreed--


            > I think Francis Barret probably wrote both.

            Interesting-- I've heard one other person say that, and never got around to asking why. Do you think that just because it looks like no one else is around who could have written it, except Barret? Sorry if its an obvious question-- I just have a kind of tunnel focus on an earlier period, and tracing its strands to now, which means I keep running into Barret but never focusing much on him.


            Regardless, it's >structured on the principles of neoplatonic conjure magic, it contacts the seven Governors of the planets, and in other words, it works.
            >
            >

            Thanks! and btw, good to "see" you again.

            LVX,

            Terri


            > ----------------------------------------------
            > I sit with the elders of a generation this world has seldom seen
            > "Omnis tui castrum es proprietas ad nobis."
            >
            > Fr. Rufus Opus
            > RufusOpus@...
            > http://headforred.blogspot.com
            > www.rufusopus.com
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