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1997 Sloectria Force

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  • rcreznyjr
    Hi fellow Force owners. I just purchased a 97 Solectria Force with 55000 miles on it.. It is in need of some bodywork as well as some wiring repairs but
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 18, 2013
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      Hi fellow Force owners. I just purchased a 97 Solectria Force with 55000 miles on it.. It is in need of some bodywork as well as some wiring repairs but otherwise it is in pretty good shape. I'm doing suspension work on it before I'll be using it as my daily driver. Front control arms and struts. Possibly wheel bearings. I need it to be able to make the one way distance of 25 miles to work where I can charge it up for the way home. I'm an auto mechanic by trade and also a member of FVEAA electric car club. I wanted to convert a VW Golf or Jetta or a small pick-up truck but could never find a suitable donor vehicle. A fellow club member has had this vehicle for around 7 years and has replaced the batteries about 3 years ago with Deka Dominators and replaced the charger a couple years ago. He bought a Chevy Volt. Our EV club meets the third Friday of the month. www.fveaa.org Rich Rezny
    • Sean K
      Congrats on your acquisition! If your force has a battery pack that s in decent condition you shouldn t have any problems making 25 miles at a reasonable
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 19, 2013
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        Congrats on your acquisition! If your force has a battery pack that's in decent condition you shouldn't have any problems making 25 miles at a reasonable speed. One word of advice, i'm not sure if yours has the same single speed gearbox that my 99 has (AT1200), but if so make sure that it isn't dry! and if it is dry you should definitely inspect the bearings, they're inexpensive off the shelf bearings but if they go out on you it can do a lot of damage!

        Also, I'm sure as a mechanic you probably have, but for anyone new to the Force it is highly recommend checking out the files section for the service manual and giving it a once over before getting into servicing anything other than the stock metro parts.

        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "rcreznyjr" <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi fellow Force owners. I just purchased a 97 Solectria Force with 55000 miles on it.. It is in need of some bodywork as well as some wiring repairs but otherwise it is in pretty good shape. I'm doing suspension work on it before I'll be using it as my daily driver. Front control arms and struts. Possibly wheel bearings. I need it to be able to make the one way distance of 25 miles to work where I can charge it up for the way home. I'm an auto mechanic by trade and also a member of FVEAA electric car club. I wanted to convert a VW Golf or Jetta or a small pick-up truck but could never find a suitable donor vehicle. A fellow club member has had this vehicle for around 7 years and has replaced the batteries about 3 years ago with Deka Dominators and replaced the charger a couple years ago. He bought a Chevy Volt. Our EV club meets the third Friday of the month. www.fveaa.org Rich Rezny
        >
      • Rex Allison
        Does anyone know if the front suspension springs are stock on the Solectria Force? I know the back springs are beefed up, but I was wondering if the front was
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 19, 2013
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          Does anyone know if the front suspension springs are stock on the Solectria Force? I know the back springs are beefed up, but I was wondering if the front was also replaced.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • rcreznyjr
          I was reading in the owners manual that the front springs are stock GEO Metro LSI springs. The rears are special for the Force. Rich
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 26, 2013
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            I was reading in the owners manual that the front springs are stock GEO Metro LSI springs. The rears are special for the Force. Rich
            >
          • rcreznyjr
            Ouch!!! My first post and I butchered the title line spelling. Sorry :(. Anyway I was test cruising around the neighborhood at work to get a feel for the
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 26, 2013
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              Ouch!!! My first post and I butchered the title line spelling. Sorry :(. Anyway I was test cruising around the neighborhood at work to get a feel for the way the vehicle operates and all seemed to be going OK. Still need to replace the front struts, top mounts and control arms as it handles pretty poorly. Then a friend came over to check out the new ride. I told him to take it for a spin. He came back and said it was really peppy but not much more. Later I was going to pull it into the shop and work on the suspension and nothing............no reverse.....no forward........no faint clicking noise when it first begins to move..........nothing. I'm tired from a busy day so I go home and wonder what happened. Tomorrow's another day. The guy I bought it from said it didn't run but it did as we unloaded it from the tow truck. I haven't driven it any real distance yet but it was working. At our last FVEAA club meeting I told the seller that it did run and he was a bit surprised so now I need to track down this problem. Any ideas or where I should begin? Rich
              >
            • Steve Powers
              Your batteries are dead. That s why it doesn t run. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                Your batteries are dead. That's why it doesn't run.


                On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:49 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Ouch!!! My first post and I butchered the title line spelling. Sorry :(.
                > Anyway I was test cruising around the neighborhood at work to get a feel
                > for the way the vehicle operates and all seemed to be going OK. Still need
                > to replace the front struts, top mounts and control arms as it handles
                > pretty poorly. Then a friend came over to check out the new ride. I told
                > him to take it for a spin. He came back and said it was really peppy but
                > not much more. Later I was going to pull it into the shop and work on the
                > suspension and nothing............no reverse.....no forward........no faint
                > clicking noise when it first begins to move..........nothing. I'm tired
                > from a busy day so I go home and wonder what happened. Tomorrow's another
                > day. The guy I bought it from said it didn't run but it did as we unloaded
                > it from the tow truck. I haven't driven it any real distance yet but it was
                > working. At our last FVEAA club meeting I told the seller that it did run
                > and he was a bit surprised so now I need to track down this problem. Any
                > ideas or where I should begin? Rich
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sean K
                I would definitely check the batteries first, check the voltage where the big grey connector from the controller plugs in. Assuming your car is like my 99 (13
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                  I would definitely check the batteries first, check the voltage where the big grey connector from the controller plugs in. Assuming your car is like my 99 (13 batteries)you should be getting somewhere between 150-160 volts DC, if it's much under 150 then something is up with your battery pack.

                  Though from what was said about it being dead and then working after coming off the tow truck it sounds likely that you might have a bad connection somewhere else, i don't suppose that you are lucky enough that someone has setup your controller to be hooked up to a laptop? If not there's lots of information on the forum about that, i do remember off hand that you'll need a db15 connector and an rs-422/485 to rs-232(db9) converter. Connecting to the controller is very helpful in troubleshooting.

                  But if I had to take a wild guess on what I would assume the problem is, the connections on either the db9 or db25 cables under the hood, they're known to get corroded on the inside,or just generally become flaky over time, some have had luck with contact cleaner, others have had to remove the existing connectors and solder on new ones (not hard, just tedious) my guess is that when the car was being loaded/unloaded it jostled those cables enough to make a decent connection, and when you were driving around it around they got bounced around and broke the connection again. Connecting to the controller with your laptop might give you an idea if that is the case.

                  Lets see, other possibilities the motor temp sensor, if you disconnect the db9 cable and use a meter across pins 5 and 9 on the end going into the back of the motor you should be seeing around 180-240 ohms (or close to that) if it's not seeing something close to that range I don't think the controller will even start up.

                  But one last ID-10T check before tearing into it too far, and I've made this mistake, if you've been doing anything under the hood, make sure that you haven't disconnected the POT from the controller.

                  I think there are a couple other things to check like the ignition relay, but others here would have a much better idea than I.

                  Best of luck!

                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Your batteries are dead. That's why it doesn't run.
                  >
                  >
                  > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:49 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ouch!!! My first post and I butchered the title line spelling. Sorry :(.
                  > > Anyway I was test cruising around the neighborhood at work to get a feel
                  > > for the way the vehicle operates and all seemed to be going OK. Still need
                  > > to replace the front struts, top mounts and control arms as it handles
                  > > pretty poorly. Then a friend came over to check out the new ride. I told
                  > > him to take it for a spin. He came back and said it was really peppy but
                  > > not much more. Later I was going to pull it into the shop and work on the
                  > > suspension and nothing............no reverse.....no forward........no faint
                  > > clicking noise when it first begins to move..........nothing. I'm tired
                  > > from a busy day so I go home and wonder what happened. Tomorrow's another
                  > > day. The guy I bought it from said it didn't run but it did as we unloaded
                  > > it from the tow truck. I haven't driven it any real distance yet but it was
                  > > working. At our last FVEAA club meeting I told the seller that it did run
                  > > and he was a bit surprised so now I need to track down this problem. Any
                  > > ideas or where I should begin? Rich
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Wolf
                  I would check the DC-DC converter first, make sure you have 12 Volts, nothing will work with out that. The quick test, turn your head lights on. If that is ok,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                    I would check the DC-DC converter first, make sure you have 12 Volts,
                    nothing will work with out that.

                    The quick test, turn your head lights on.

                    If that is ok, then check the motor controller to battery and vehicle
                    connections.
                    On Jul 27, 2013 11:16 AM, "Sean K" <seankmc@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > I would definitely check the batteries first, check the voltage where the
                    > big grey connector from the controller plugs in. Assuming your car is like
                    > my 99 (13 batteries)you should be getting somewhere between 150-160 volts
                    > DC, if it's much under 150 then something is up with your battery pack.
                    >
                    > Though from what was said about it being dead and then working after
                    > coming off the tow truck it sounds likely that you might have a bad
                    > connection somewhere else, i don't suppose that you are lucky enough that
                    > someone has setup your controller to be hooked up to a laptop? If not
                    > there's lots of information on the forum about that, i do remember off hand
                    > that you'll need a db15 connector and an rs-422/485 to rs-232(db9)
                    > converter. Connecting to the controller is very helpful in troubleshooting.
                    >
                    > But if I had to take a wild guess on what I would assume the problem is,
                    > the connections on either the db9 or db25 cables under the hood, they're
                    > known to get corroded on the inside,or just generally become flaky over
                    > time, some have had luck with contact cleaner, others have had to remove
                    > the existing connectors and solder on new ones (not hard, just tedious) my
                    > guess is that when the car was being loaded/unloaded it jostled those
                    > cables enough to make a decent connection, and when you were driving around
                    > it around they got bounced around and broke the connection again.
                    > Connecting to the controller with your laptop might give you an idea if
                    > that is the case.
                    >
                    > Lets see, other possibilities the motor temp sensor, if you disconnect the
                    > db9 cable and use a meter across pins 5 and 9 on the end going into the
                    > back of the motor you should be seeing around 180-240 ohms (or close to
                    > that) if it's not seeing something close to that range I don't think the
                    > controller will even start up.
                    >
                    > But one last ID-10T check before tearing into it too far, and I've made
                    > this mistake, if you've been doing anything under the hood, make sure that
                    > you haven't disconnected the POT from the controller.
                    >
                    > I think there are a couple other things to check like the ignition relay,
                    > but others here would have a much better idea than I.
                    >
                    > Best of luck!
                    >
                    > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Your batteries are dead. That's why it doesn't run.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:49 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > **
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Ouch!!! My first post and I butchered the title line spelling. Sorry
                    > :(.
                    > > > Anyway I was test cruising around the neighborhood at work to get a
                    > feel
                    > > > for the way the vehicle operates and all seemed to be going OK. Still
                    > need
                    > > > to replace the front struts, top mounts and control arms as it handles
                    > > > pretty poorly. Then a friend came over to check out the new ride. I
                    > told
                    > > > him to take it for a spin. He came back and said it was really peppy
                    > but
                    > > > not much more. Later I was going to pull it into the shop and work on
                    > the
                    > > > suspension and nothing............no reverse.....no forward........no
                    > faint
                    > > > clicking noise when it first begins to move..........nothing. I'm tired
                    > > > from a busy day so I go home and wonder what happened. Tomorrow's
                    > another
                    > > > day. The guy I bought it from said it didn't run but it did as we
                    > unloaded
                    > > > it from the tow truck. I haven't driven it any real distance yet but
                    > it was
                    > > > working. At our last FVEAA club meeting I told the seller that it did
                    > run
                    > > > and he was a bit surprised so now I need to track down this problem.
                    > Any
                    > > > ideas or where I should begin? Rich
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rex Allison
                    Thanks. ________________________________ From: rcreznyjr To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 8:32 PM Subject:
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                      Thanks.



                      ________________________________
                      From: rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@...>
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 8:32 PM
                      Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Suspension Springs



                       


                      I was reading in the owners manual that the front springs are stock GEO Metro LSI springs. The rears are special for the Force. Rich
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • rcreznyjr
                      Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the 12vdc system
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                        Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector. Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and advice. Rich
                        >
                      • Charles Bliss
                        Disconnect the DSub connectors and clean with contact cleaner or better, such as DeOxit. Reassemble a couple times to rub the contacts together a bit. Despite
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                          Disconnect the DSub connectors and clean with contact cleaner or better,
                          such as DeOxit. Reassemble a couple times to rub the contacts together
                          a bit.
                          Despite the fact that they are gold plated, they can still get an oxide
                          coating that prevents a good contact. I have had this happen several times.
                          On 7/27/2013 8:14 PM, rcreznyjr wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                          > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in
                          > the 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson
                          > connector. Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I
                          > have to wait until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really
                          > appreciate the input and advice. Rich
                          > >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rich Rezny
                          I use a product in my job as an auto mechanic called Stabilant 22. It is a contact enhancer that works wonders. Airbag systems always seem to have conductivity
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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                            I use a product in my job as an auto mechanic called Stabilant 22. It is a contact enhancer that works wonders. Airbag systems always seem to have conductivity issues that set trouble codes. When this product is used the codes and warning lights usually stay off.  I'll try that on Monday.  I have the new connectors to replace the current ones.  I have a little trouble seeing close since I had cataract surgery this spring so it should be a challenge with all those small wires. Wish me luck! Rich

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Steve Powers
                            Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn t mean the pack is good. Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet is drops
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 28, 2013
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                              Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn't mean the pack is good.
                              Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet
                              is drops below the necessary voltage.


                              On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:14 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                              > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the
                              > 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector.
                              > Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait
                              > until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and
                              > advice. Rich
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • rcreznyjr
                              My saga continues. Went to work this morning and first thing I checked pack voltage. Was at 169.6 vdc. Turned on the A/C, headlights, rear defogger and
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 29, 2013
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                                My saga continues. Went to work this morning and first thing I checked pack voltage. Was at 169.6 vdc. Turned on the A/C, headlights, rear defogger and radio. Heater element doesn't work. Still have to figure that out. Let it run for at least a half an hour. A/C works good. Pack voltage measured at the controller main power cables dropped to 160.4. Shut the system down. Pulled the two multi-wire connectors to the speed controller. Used the Stabilant 22 contact enhancer on the pin terminals and reconnected them. Reconnected the main power cable and then recharged the vehicle. The test this morning used 5.96ahr. Had to go to work on ICE vehicles and checked back at the charge status in 2 hours it was back to zero and going negative. Let it charge until noon. Disconnected charger and tried to operate vehicle. SSDD. Now what? Any help is always appreciated and I hope I'm learning....Rich

                                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn't mean the pack is good.
                                > Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet
                                > is drops below the necessary voltage.
                                >
                                >
                                > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:14 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                                > > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the
                                > > 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector.
                                > > Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait
                                > > until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and
                                > > advice. Rich
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Sean K
                                I think with your pack giving you that high of a voltage after drawing several AH that at the very least you d be getting the car to attempt to limp along. I
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 30, 2013
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                                  I think with your pack giving you that high of a voltage after drawing several AH that at the very least you'd be getting the car to attempt to limp along.

                                  I would still recommend trying to hook up a laptop to the controller, that will help you get a picture of what the controller thinks is going on.

                                  Aside from that if you have a db9 breakout you can check the operation of the motor speed sensor with an O-Scope on the a+/-,b+/-, pin-out of that 9 pin connector is on the last page of the manual at http://www.kruspan.ch/assets/downloads/Manual_AMC_III_Kruspan_V072009.pdf

                                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "rcreznyjr" <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > My saga continues. Went to work this morning and first thing I checked pack voltage. Was at 169.6 vdc. Turned on the A/C, headlights, rear defogger and radio. Heater element doesn't work. Still have to figure that out. Let it run for at least a half an hour. A/C works good. Pack voltage measured at the controller main power cables dropped to 160.4. Shut the system down. Pulled the two multi-wire connectors to the speed controller. Used the Stabilant 22 contact enhancer on the pin terminals and reconnected them. Reconnected the main power cable and then recharged the vehicle. The test this morning used 5.96ahr. Had to go to work on ICE vehicles and checked back at the charge status in 2 hours it was back to zero and going negative. Let it charge until noon. Disconnected charger and tried to operate vehicle. SSDD. Now what? Any help is always appreciated and I hope I'm learning....Rich
                                  >
                                  > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn't mean the pack is good.
                                  > > Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet
                                  > > is drops below the necessary voltage.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:14 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > **
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                                  > > > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the
                                  > > > 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector.
                                  > > > Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait
                                  > > > until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and
                                  > > > advice. Rich
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • johnnydwa
                                  A couple of things to check...I was down a few months last year and got a lot of advice from Reed Bement. 1. Check each battery under load (high beams, heater
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Aug 7, 2013
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                                    A couple of things to check...I was down a few months last year and got a lot of advice from Reed Bement.

                                    1. Check each battery under load (high beams, heater - etc). You may see one that is reversing polarity. Many times everything looks fine without load and you'll find the culprit when under load. I normally go one by one write down the voltage without load and under load to compare.

                                    2. Check the main fuse of the controller. This requires pulling the cover of controller off (take lots of photos). If you have blown controller fuse you'll get your symptoms. I purchased a replacement online.

                                    3. While you have the controller apart. Connect and reconnect all of the connections between the boards. I also replaced the "foam pads" on the circuit boards that sit along the bottom rail of the controller.

                                    4. Replace the DB9 and DB25 connectors. I really fought doing this, but once I did it solved many issues. I bought some molded computer cables from Goodwill, cut off a 8 inch length and slowly soldered and shrink wrapped each connection. It is tedious and you have to be careful to keep everything in order (the Solectria cables are curled up ribbons, without any color coding). I replaced the two sets exposed cable heads since they get the most use.

                                    5. Search these posts - pretty much everything has happened before.

                                    Hope this helps.




                                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "rcreznyjr" <rcreznyjr@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My saga continues. Went to work this morning and first thing I checked pack voltage. Was at 169.6 vdc. Turned on the A/C, headlights, rear defogger and radio. Heater element doesn't work. Still have to figure that out. Let it run for at least a half an hour. A/C works good. Pack voltage measured at the controller main power cables dropped to 160.4. Shut the system down. Pulled the two multi-wire connectors to the speed controller. Used the Stabilant 22 contact enhancer on the pin terminals and reconnected them. Reconnected the main power cable and then recharged the vehicle. The test this morning used 5.96ahr. Had to go to work on ICE vehicles and checked back at the charge status in 2 hours it was back to zero and going negative. Let it charge until noon. Disconnected charger and tried to operate vehicle. SSDD. Now what? Any help is always appreciated and I hope I'm learning....Rich
                                    >
                                    > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn't mean the pack is good.
                                    > > Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet
                                    > > is drops below the necessary voltage.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:14 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > **
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                                    > > > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the
                                    > > > 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector.
                                    > > > Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait
                                    > > > until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and
                                    > > > advice. Rich
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • geo_homsy2
                                    Hey Rich- my advice: Don t waste your time shooting in the dark (e.g. replacing the D-sub connectors or fussing around with the speed sensor) if you don t
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Aug 7, 2013
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                                      Hey Rich-

                                      my advice: Don't waste your time shooting in the dark (e.g. replacing the D-sub connectors or fussing around with the speed sensor) if you don't know they're the culprit. To put a twist on a Beastie-Boys song, "ch-ch-ch-checkulate, before ya speculate"...


                                      If your 12v is solid, IMO the next thing to check is the so-called "ignition" board. When you turn the ignition switch to "run", it should close a 12v relay contact on the ignition board, which in turn powers up the controller (by asserting a certain signal on the DB25 connector).

                                      The ignition board is housed in a small black plastic box behind the fascia under the steering column. NOT the plastic box with the 20 pin dual-row IDC connector; the plastic box with the rats-nest of wires with a whole sh*tload of different connectors on the ends.

                                      Some other kind soul has posted schematics of the ignition box in the "files" section here. Avail yourself of it :)

                                      Check that when you turn on the ignition, the relay inside that box clicks. If it doesn't, figure out why (the 12v wiring is implicated). If it DOES, then check if the main contactor inside the controller is engaging. When you turn on the ignition, you should hear a subtle clunk from inside the controller. I can't hear mine from the passenger compartment; in fact I've never heard it. So if you're checking this, use two people.

                                      If the controller contactor isn't engaging, then either (a) replace or recondition the DB25 connector, (b) check voltages at the DB25 connector using a breakout box, or (c) connect to the debug port on the controller. My preferences would be (b) or (c).

                                      There's an AC325 controller manual in the "files" section, that gives the pinout of the DB25 connector.

                                      Hope this helps!

                                      //Geo


                                      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I think with your pack giving you that high of a voltage after drawing several AH that at the very least you'd be getting the car to attempt to limp along.
                                      >
                                      > I would still recommend trying to hook up a laptop to the controller, that will help you get a picture of what the controller thinks is going on.
                                      >
                                      > Aside from that if you have a db9 breakout you can check the operation of the motor speed sensor with an O-Scope on the a+/-,b+/-, pin-out of that 9 pin connector is on the last page of the manual at http://www.kruspan.ch/assets/downloads/Manual_AMC_III_Kruspan_V072009.pdf
                                      >
                                      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "rcreznyjr" <rcreznyjr@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > My saga continues. Went to work this morning and first thing I checked pack voltage. Was at 169.6 vdc. Turned on the A/C, headlights, rear defogger and radio. Heater element doesn't work. Still have to figure that out. Let it run for at least a half an hour. A/C works good. Pack voltage measured at the controller main power cables dropped to 160.4. Shut the system down. Pulled the two multi-wire connectors to the speed controller. Used the Stabilant 22 contact enhancer on the pin terminals and reconnected them. Reconnected the main power cable and then recharged the vehicle. The test this morning used 5.96ahr. Had to go to work on ICE vehicles and checked back at the charge status in 2 hours it was back to zero and going negative. Let it charge until noon. Disconnected charger and tried to operate vehicle. SSDD. Now what? Any help is always appreciated and I hope I'm learning....Rich
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn't mean the pack is good.
                                      > > > Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet
                                      > > > is drops below the necessary voltage.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:14 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > **
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                                      > > > > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the
                                      > > > > 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector.
                                      > > > > Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait
                                      > > > > until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and
                                      > > > > advice. Rich
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Sean K
                                      +1 to option C, if you are connected to the debug port you will pretty easily be able to easily tell if the motor speed sensor, power/range switch, potbox,
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Aug 9, 2013
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                                        +1 to option C, if you are connected to the debug port you will pretty easily be able to easily tell if the motor speed sensor, power/range switch, potbox, etc. are working.

                                        One bit of advice on that though, try coming up with an older laptop to connect with, win95 or xp, for some reason my windows 7 rig didn't want to work, but when I dusted off my old 486 with win95 it connected right up.

                                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hey Rich-
                                        >
                                        > my advice: Don't waste your time shooting in the dark (e.g. replacing the D-sub connectors or fussing around with the speed sensor) if you don't know they're the culprit. To put a twist on a Beastie-Boys song, "ch-ch-ch-checkulate, before ya speculate"...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > If your 12v is solid, IMO the next thing to check is the so-called "ignition" board. When you turn the ignition switch to "run", it should close a 12v relay contact on the ignition board, which in turn powers up the controller (by asserting a certain signal on the DB25 connector).
                                        >
                                        > The ignition board is housed in a small black plastic box behind the fascia under the steering column. NOT the plastic box with the 20 pin dual-row IDC connector; the plastic box with the rats-nest of wires with a whole sh*tload of different connectors on the ends.
                                        >
                                        > Some other kind soul has posted schematics of the ignition box in the "files" section here. Avail yourself of it :)
                                        >
                                        > Check that when you turn on the ignition, the relay inside that box clicks. If it doesn't, figure out why (the 12v wiring is implicated). If it DOES, then check if the main contactor inside the controller is engaging. When you turn on the ignition, you should hear a subtle clunk from inside the controller. I can't hear mine from the passenger compartment; in fact I've never heard it. So if you're checking this, use two people.
                                        >
                                        > If the controller contactor isn't engaging, then either (a) replace or recondition the DB25 connector, (b) check voltages at the DB25 connector using a breakout box, or (c) connect to the debug port on the controller. My preferences would be (b) or (c).
                                        >
                                        > There's an AC325 controller manual in the "files" section, that gives the pinout of the DB25 connector.
                                        >
                                        > Hope this helps!
                                        >
                                        > //Geo
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I think with your pack giving you that high of a voltage after drawing several AH that at the very least you'd be getting the car to attempt to limp along.
                                        > >
                                        > > I would still recommend trying to hook up a laptop to the controller, that will help you get a picture of what the controller thinks is going on.
                                        > >
                                        > > Aside from that if you have a db9 breakout you can check the operation of the motor speed sensor with an O-Scope on the a+/-,b+/-, pin-out of that 9 pin connector is on the last page of the manual at http://www.kruspan.ch/assets/downloads/Manual_AMC_III_Kruspan_V072009.pdf
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "rcreznyjr" <rcreznyjr@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > My saga continues. Went to work this morning and first thing I checked pack voltage. Was at 169.6 vdc. Turned on the A/C, headlights, rear defogger and radio. Heater element doesn't work. Still have to figure that out. Let it run for at least a half an hour. A/C works good. Pack voltage measured at the controller main power cables dropped to 160.4. Shut the system down. Pulled the two multi-wire connectors to the speed controller. Used the Stabilant 22 contact enhancer on the pin terminals and reconnected them. Reconnected the main power cable and then recharged the vehicle. The test this morning used 5.96ahr. Had to go to work on ICE vehicles and checked back at the charge status in 2 hours it was back to zero and going negative. Let it charge until noon. Disconnected charger and tried to operate vehicle. SSDD. Now what? Any help is always appreciated and I hope I'm learning....Rich
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Steve Powers <stevepowers007@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Just because the pack reads 161.2V unloaded doesn't mean the pack is good.
                                        > > > > Turn on all accys and the heater heater full on and measure again. I bet
                                        > > > > is drops below the necessary voltage.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:14 PM, rcreznyjr <rcreznyjr@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > **
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Today, after working at my second job I went to my main job where the
                                        > > > > > Force is parked. Checked the DC-DC output. Good there. Everything in the
                                        > > > > > 12vdc system operational. Checked pack voltage at the Anderson connector.
                                        > > > > > Measured 161.2vdc. Had to head home to do yard chores so I have to wait
                                        > > > > > until Monday to do any other diagnostics. Really appreciate the input and
                                        > > > > > advice. Rich
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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