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Re: Charger puzzle

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  • Raymond
    Okay. Back to your previous suggestion. I ll go inside and look, and compare with your pictures. Thanks to all who have tried to help. Incidentally, I m
    Message 1 of 34 , Jun 27, 2013
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      Okay. Back to your previous suggestion. I'll go inside and look, and
      compare with your pictures.
      Thanks to all who have tried to help. Incidentally, I'm getting along
      just fine by waiting four hours to start the charge. Strange!

      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf wrote:
      >
      > I am not that sure what, if any, program to use with that charger.
      >
      > It has been many years since I worked on that one... There does seem
      to be
      > a programming connector inside, but it might just be for loading
      firmware...
      >
      > You would need to connect a scope to the pins and see what voltage
      levels
      > are present, and if they are toggling in a data looking way.
      >
      > Measure the baud rate and then try hyper terminal and see if you get
      > anything.
      >
      > I never investigated that when I had the charger, because it did not
      even
      > power up. ;)
      > On Jun 25, 2013 4:24 PM, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@... wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Many thanks, Wolf. I may try this -- twenty years ago, this would
      have
      > > been routine; Now, at 91 years, I'll have to think about it. One
      more
      > > question and then I'll shut up for awhile.If I open this beast is it
      > > likely that I'll find the place to hook up a computer and run the
      > > diagnostic software? And if so, is it likely to do me any good to do
      > > so?Ray
      > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The last BC3000 I worked on, had a bad capacitor in the main 15V
      > > supply.
      > > >
      > > > The standby supply was able to help the main supply during the
      > > undervolt
      > > > conditions to keep it working.
      > > >
      > > > However, the standby supply is so inefficient that it actually
      burns
      > > the
      > > > circuit board, if the main supply is undervolting and drawing
      power
      > > from it.
      > > >
      > > > So, if you want to try and fix it yourself, then make sure the
      charger
      > > is
      > > > fully discharged and then open it up.
      > > >
      > > > If you see burned circuit board like this:
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7734.jpg
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7737.jpg
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7739.jpg
      > > >
      > > > Then replace this 25V 47uf capacitor:
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7872.jpg
      > > >
      > > > Replace with automotive grade, at least 85C 10,000 hour capacitor.
      > > >
      > > > Then go back and blob on solder like this:
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7742.jpg
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7744.jpg
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7746.jpg
      > > >
      > > > The extra solder acts like a heatsink, and adds structural support
      to
      > > all
      > > > the resistors, since the circuit board has delaminated.
      > > >
      > > > All the pics are here:
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/index.htm
      > > >
      > > > There is a 90% chance this is what is wrong with your charger.
      > > > On Jun 24, 2013 9:49 AM, "EV" ev@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ALTHOUGH SOLECTRIA HAD SEVERAL CHARGERS THAT THEY USED IN THEIR
      > > > > CONVERSIONS MOST OF THE FORCE CHARGERS WHERE A:) BC1000.(
      SOLECTRIA
      > > DESIGN)
      > > > >
      > > > > B:) BRUSA NLG412 ( BC3300 SOLECTRIA P/N (PROGRAMABLE 100-200VDC)
      > > (SQUARE
      > > > > BOX)
      > > > >
      > > > > C:) BC3000 ( SOLECTRIA P/N) MADE BY A COMPANY IN GERMANY
      144/156VOLT
      > > ONLY)
      > > > > (RECT BOX) I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS WERE SOFTWARE PROGRAMABLE) BUT
      WOLF
      > > HAS
      > > > > MORE EXPERIENCE THEN I DO ON THIS MODEL
      > > > >
      > > > > I HAVE TO AGREE WITH WOLF IT COULD BE ANYTHING FROM A BAD SOLDER
      > > JOINT TO
      > > > > A BAD TEMP SENSOR HEAT AND MOVEMENT COULD ALL BE COMING TO PLAY
      WITH
      > > YOUR
      > > > > ISSUE HOPE THIS HELPS STRAIGHT OUT THE CHARGER P/N CONFUSION
      > > > >
      > > > > ----------------------------------------
      > > > > From: "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
      > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 7:02 PM
      > > > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger puzzle
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks Ken. I'm sure we'll figure it out eventually. What I do
      > > > > remember is that when my previous charger failed, the Solectria
      > > people
      > > > > --- by then at Azure Dynamics -- told me, "We have only two
      chargers
      > > > > left. You can have one of them." And I never questioned the
      Model
      > > > > label, until now.
      > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Ken Olum wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > BC3000 is the Solectria name for a Brusa NLG4. I think BC3KW
      is
      > > the
      > > > > > name for some other charger made by Solectria, not by Brusa. I
      > > have
      > > > > > never seen one. It would be strange for the nameplate to say
      that
      > > it
      > > > > > is something other than what it really is, but it's not
      > > impossible.
      > > > > > I'm sure Wolf's website has many pictures of the NLG4, inside
      and
      > > out,
      > > > > > and you should be able to determine pretty quickly whether or
      not
      > > > > > that's what you have.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Ken Olum
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
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      >



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    • Raymond
      Thank you, Josh. I understand the charging profile, but didn t know the stages were called by these names. l m going to put labels on those red lights!Until
      Message 34 of 34 , Jul 7, 2013
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        Thank you, Josh. I understand the charging profile, but didn't know the
        stages were called by these names. l'm going to put labels on those red
        lights!Until a better idea comes along, I'm proceeding on the theory
        that a temperature sensor is telling the charger not to charge until the
        batteries cool down after a trip. On a very hot day this takes about
        four hours; on a nice summer day like this one, one and a half to two
        hours will do the trick.However, it won't start charging when plugged in
        to 240v; I have to unplug it, and then plug it in again and it fires
        right up!As the evidence accumulates I'm closing in on the problem, I
        think.Ray
        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Josh Anzicek wrote:
        >
        > Good day,
        >
        > This is a very common lead acid charge profile. Most solar charge
        > controllers also follow the same process.
        >
        > From
        > http://www.chargingchargers.com/tutorials/charging.html
        >
        > Three Stage Battery Charging
        >
        > The *BULK* stage involves about 80% of the recharge, wherein the
        charger
        > current is held constant (in a constant current charger), and voltage
        > increases. The properly sized charger will give the battery as much
        current
        > as it will accept up to charger capacity (25% of battery capacity in
        amp
        > hours), and not raise a wet battery over 125┬░ F, or an AGM or GEL
        (valve
        > regulated) battery over 100┬░ F.
        >
        > The *ABSORPTION* stage (the remaining 20%, approximately) has the
        charger
        > holding the voltage at the charger's absorption voltage (between 14.1
        VDC
        > and 14.8 VDC, depending on charger set points) and decreasing the
        current
        > until the battery is fully charged. Some charger manufacturers call
        this
        > absorption stage an equalization stage. We don't agree with this use
        of the
        > term. If the battery won't hold a charge, or the current does not drop
        > after the expected recharge time, the battery may have some permanent
        > sulphation.
        >
        > The *FLOAT* stage is where the charge voltage is reduced to between
        13.0
        > VDC and 13.8 VDC and held constant, while the current is reduced to
        less
        > than 1% of battery capacity. This mode can be used to maintain a fully
        > charged battery indefinitely.
        >
        > I hope this helps, best regards,
        >
        > Josh
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Raymond rmalden_2000@... wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks, "EV".Can you explain the terms "Bulk charging" and
        "Absorption
        > > charge"?Ray
        > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "EV" wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > GREEN LED =CHARGE COMPLETE/FLOAT
        > > >
        > > > YELLOW LED = CHARGER FAULT
        > > >
        > > > 1 ST RED (TOP)= CHARGER BULK CHARGING
        > > >
        > > > 2 ND RED =ABSORBTION CHARGE
        > > >
        > > > 3 RED = NEVER SEEN IT ON MAY NOT BE USED
        > > >
        > > > ----------------------------------------
        > > > From: "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
        > > > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 4:15 PM
        > > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger puzzle
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Is there a drawing or an explanation of the lights that are
        associated
        > > with the battery charger on my 1998 Force? The box has yellow,
        green,
        > > and red lights of which only one -- the green -- offers any clue of
        its
        > > meaning.
        > > > A quick search of the group files did not turn up anything.
        > > > The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems that the
        > > heating of my batteries in use is preventing recharge until after
        they
        > > cool down. So I'm on the trail of temperature sensors. Even so, they
        are
        > > installed for a purpose, so more research may be needed before
        assuming
        > > that it is the sensor which is at fault.
        > > >
        > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
        wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Jim: Thanks for the suggestion. If it is a temperature sensor,
        can
        > > you
        > > > > tell me how to find out? Or where to look? Or what to
        measure?Ray
        > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "jwolfe@" wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > >2a. Re: Charger puzzle
        > > > > > > Posted by: "Raymond" xxxxxxxxx
        > > > > > > Date: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am ((PDT))
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >Okay. Back to your previous suggestion. I'll go inside and
        look,
        > > > > and
        > > > > > >compare with your pictures.
        > > > > > >Thanks to all who have tried to help. Incidentally, I'm
        getting
        > > > > along
        > > > > > >just fine by waiting four hours to start the charge. Strange!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > I haven't been watching this thread too closely but I'm
        wondering
        > > if
        > > > > it's
        > > > > > not a temperature sensor that's bad.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Good luck,
        > > > > > Jim - in the Valley of the SUN
        > > > > > www.evalbum.com/1703
        > > > > >
        > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > > > > > mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading
        > > > > provider -
        > > > > > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
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