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Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger puzzle

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  • Wolf
    Without knowing the charger s fault code, it could be anything like a bad temp sensor, loose connection, or random chance. ... [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 34 , Jun 23, 2013
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      Without knowing the charger's fault code, it could be anything like a bad
      temp sensor, loose connection, or random chance.
      On Jun 23, 2013 11:01 AM, "Raymond" <rmalden_2000@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Thanks, Wolf. It may come to that. In the meantime, the logic of this
      > problem escapes me completely. Why should the ability of the charger to
      > perform depend on how recently the car has been driven? To recap the
      > evidence, based on about ten days of observation:
      >
      > Start with fully charged batteries. Drive ten miles, then plug in to
      > recharge. Charger will not function. Leave it connected to power source,
      > return four hours later, and find that nothing has happened. Disconnect the
      > power, then reconnect it, and the charger starts up, recharges the
      > batteries just as it has for years.
      >
      > Take another trip of ten miles or more and the pattern is repeated. (After
      > one trip of only about five miles, the charger worked immediately. Haven't
      > repeated that experience yet.)
      >
      > What is it about the charger that is detecting something about the
      > batteries? And what might it be detecting? Does this make sense to anyone?
      >
      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I can take a look at it and see if I can get it working more reliably.
      > > On Jun 18, 2013 6:34 PM, "Raymond" <rmalden_2000@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The name plate info on my charger says:Model BC3KWS/N 180A
      > > > I wonder if this might be a later model. It is the third charger on
      > > > this 1998 Force. The original, Model BC3300, S/N 1445, failed when
      > > > under warranty in 1999, and was replaced by a Model BC3300, S/N 1694.
      > > > When that one failed in 2006, it was replaced with the BC3KW, purchased
      > > > from Azure Dynamics, having a different physical configuration -- we
      > had
      > > > to remove some of the filler foam in the "valley" where the charger
      > > > sits. The wiring harness was the same, as I recall it, but the fan runs
      > > > all the time and the cooling fins are a bit larger.
      > > > I suspect this one isn't going to be diagnosed with that software
      > > > package, which I've downloaded and saved, just in case. [Sigh]Ray
      > > >
      > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > BC3300 located bottom left, when viewed from above:
      > > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300_1163/images/IMG_7862.jpg
      > > > >
      > > > > If you have a BC3000?
      > > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7902.jpg
      > > > >
      > > > > Then it is inside, and I think it is this connector, but I am not
      > 100%
      > > > sure.
      > > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7896.jpg
      > > > > On Jun 18, 2013 2:02 PM, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@ wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > **
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Wolf: Where on the charger is the connector for that diagnostic
      > > > test?
      > > > > > I don't see a data jack on the exposed surfaces, and can't feel one
      > > > on
      > > > > > the back.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Your best bet is to hook up the charger to a laptop and run the
      > > > Monlog
      > > > > > > program, it will tell you the fault code.
      > > > > > > On Jun 13, 2013 5:44 PM, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@ wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > **
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This mystery has me baffled. Can you help?
      > > > > > > > "98 Solectria Force with BC3KW charger, during the past two
      > > > weeks
      > > > > > has
      > > > > > > > failed to charge when plugged in after a trip. Repeated plug /
      > > > > > unplug /
      > > > > > > > plug procedure, at first, caused the charge to start, so I
      > > > checked
      > > > > > the cord
      > > > > > > > and connections. Found lights on an unmarked box next to the
      > > > charger
      > > > > > were
      > > > > > > > responding to "Power On". After sitting overnight, connected to
      > > > 240v
      > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > not charging, unplugging the AC connection and then restoring
      > it
      > > > > > starts the
      > > > > > > > charging.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This pattern has now repeated the last three days. Return from
      > > > trip,
      > > > > > won't
      > > > > > > > charge; leave connected overnight, no charge; unplug the power
      > > > > > source in
      > > > > > > > the morning, then restore it, and charge begins.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > On that unmarked light box when it is connected to power but
      > > > > > refusing to
      > > > > > > > charge, there is one red light "On" and the yellow light is
      > > > > > flashing.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what all this means?
      > > > > > > > Ray, in Santa Rosa
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > >
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      >


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    • Raymond
      Thank you, Josh. I understand the charging profile, but didn t know the stages were called by these names. l m going to put labels on those red lights!Until
      Message 34 of 34 , Jul 7, 2013
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        Thank you, Josh. I understand the charging profile, but didn't know the
        stages were called by these names. l'm going to put labels on those red
        lights!Until a better idea comes along, I'm proceeding on the theory
        that a temperature sensor is telling the charger not to charge until the
        batteries cool down after a trip. On a very hot day this takes about
        four hours; on a nice summer day like this one, one and a half to two
        hours will do the trick.However, it won't start charging when plugged in
        to 240v; I have to unplug it, and then plug it in again and it fires
        right up!As the evidence accumulates I'm closing in on the problem, I
        think.Ray
        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Josh Anzicek wrote:
        >
        > Good day,
        >
        > This is a very common lead acid charge profile. Most solar charge
        > controllers also follow the same process.
        >
        > From
        > http://www.chargingchargers.com/tutorials/charging.html
        >
        > Three Stage Battery Charging
        >
        > The *BULK* stage involves about 80% of the recharge, wherein the
        charger
        > current is held constant (in a constant current charger), and voltage
        > increases. The properly sized charger will give the battery as much
        current
        > as it will accept up to charger capacity (25% of battery capacity in
        amp
        > hours), and not raise a wet battery over 125┬░ F, or an AGM or GEL
        (valve
        > regulated) battery over 100┬░ F.
        >
        > The *ABSORPTION* stage (the remaining 20%, approximately) has the
        charger
        > holding the voltage at the charger's absorption voltage (between 14.1
        VDC
        > and 14.8 VDC, depending on charger set points) and decreasing the
        current
        > until the battery is fully charged. Some charger manufacturers call
        this
        > absorption stage an equalization stage. We don't agree with this use
        of the
        > term. If the battery won't hold a charge, or the current does not drop
        > after the expected recharge time, the battery may have some permanent
        > sulphation.
        >
        > The *FLOAT* stage is where the charge voltage is reduced to between
        13.0
        > VDC and 13.8 VDC and held constant, while the current is reduced to
        less
        > than 1% of battery capacity. This mode can be used to maintain a fully
        > charged battery indefinitely.
        >
        > I hope this helps, best regards,
        >
        > Josh
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Raymond rmalden_2000@... wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks, "EV".Can you explain the terms "Bulk charging" and
        "Absorption
        > > charge"?Ray
        > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "EV" wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > GREEN LED =CHARGE COMPLETE/FLOAT
        > > >
        > > > YELLOW LED = CHARGER FAULT
        > > >
        > > > 1 ST RED (TOP)= CHARGER BULK CHARGING
        > > >
        > > > 2 ND RED =ABSORBTION CHARGE
        > > >
        > > > 3 RED = NEVER SEEN IT ON MAY NOT BE USED
        > > >
        > > > ----------------------------------------
        > > > From: "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
        > > > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 4:15 PM
        > > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger puzzle
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Is there a drawing or an explanation of the lights that are
        associated
        > > with the battery charger on my 1998 Force? The box has yellow,
        green,
        > > and red lights of which only one -- the green -- offers any clue of
        its
        > > meaning.
        > > > A quick search of the group files did not turn up anything.
        > > > The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems that the
        > > heating of my batteries in use is preventing recharge until after
        they
        > > cool down. So I'm on the trail of temperature sensors. Even so, they
        are
        > > installed for a purpose, so more research may be needed before
        assuming
        > > that it is the sensor which is at fault.
        > > >
        > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
        wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Jim: Thanks for the suggestion. If it is a temperature sensor,
        can
        > > you
        > > > > tell me how to find out? Or where to look? Or what to
        measure?Ray
        > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "jwolfe@" wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > >2a. Re: Charger puzzle
        > > > > > > Posted by: "Raymond" xxxxxxxxx
        > > > > > > Date: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am ((PDT))
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >Okay. Back to your previous suggestion. I'll go inside and
        look,
        > > > > and
        > > > > > >compare with your pictures.
        > > > > > >Thanks to all who have tried to help. Incidentally, I'm
        getting
        > > > > along
        > > > > > >just fine by waiting four hours to start the charge. Strange!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > I haven't been watching this thread too closely but I'm
        wondering
        > > if
        > > > > it's
        > > > > > not a temperature sensor that's bad.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Good luck,
        > > > > > Jim - in the Valley of the SUN
        > > > > > www.evalbum.com/1703
        > > > > >
        > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > > > > > mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading
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        > > > >
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