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Re: Charger puzzle

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  • Raymond
    Thanks, Wolf. It may come to that. In the meantime, the logic of this problem escapes me completely. Why should the ability of the charger to perform depend
    Message 1 of 34 , Jun 23, 2013
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      Thanks, Wolf. It may come to that. In the meantime, the logic of this problem escapes me completely. Why should the ability of the charger to perform depend on how recently the car has been driven? To recap the evidence, based on about ten days of observation:

      Start with fully charged batteries. Drive ten miles, then plug in to recharge. Charger will not function. Leave it connected to power source, return four hours later, and find that nothing has happened. Disconnect the power, then reconnect it, and the charger starts up, recharges the batteries just as it has for years.

      Take another trip of ten miles or more and the pattern is repeated. (After one trip of only about five miles, the charger worked immediately. Haven't repeated that experience yet.)

      What is it about the charger that is detecting something about the batteries? And what might it be detecting? Does this make sense to anyone?




      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
      >
      > I can take a look at it and see if I can get it working more reliably.
      > On Jun 18, 2013 6:34 PM, "Raymond" <rmalden_2000@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > The name plate info on my charger says:Model BC3KWS/N 180A
      > > I wonder if this might be a later model. It is the third charger on
      > > this 1998 Force. The original, Model BC3300, S/N 1445, failed when
      > > under warranty in 1999, and was replaced by a Model BC3300, S/N 1694.
      > > When that one failed in 2006, it was replaced with the BC3KW, purchased
      > > from Azure Dynamics, having a different physical configuration -- we had
      > > to remove some of the filler foam in the "valley" where the charger
      > > sits. The wiring harness was the same, as I recall it, but the fan runs
      > > all the time and the cooling fins are a bit larger.
      > > I suspect this one isn't going to be diagnosed with that software
      > > package, which I've downloaded and saved, just in case. [Sigh]Ray
      > >
      > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf wrote:
      > > >
      > > > BC3300 located bottom left, when viewed from above:
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300_1163/images/IMG_7862.jpg
      > > >
      > > > If you have a BC3000?
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7902.jpg
      > > >
      > > > Then it is inside, and I think it is this connector, but I am not 100%
      > > sure.
      > > > http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3000/images/IMG_7896.jpg
      > > > On Jun 18, 2013 2:02 PM, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Wolf: Where on the charger is the connector for that diagnostic
      > > test?
      > > > > I don't see a data jack on the exposed surfaces, and can't feel one
      > > on
      > > > > the back.
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Your best bet is to hook up the charger to a laptop and run the
      > > Monlog
      > > > > > program, it will tell you the fault code.
      > > > > > On Jun 13, 2013 5:44 PM, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@ wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > **
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > This mystery has me baffled. Can you help?
      > > > > > > "98 Solectria Force with BC3KW charger, during the past two
      > > weeks
      > > > > has
      > > > > > > failed to charge when plugged in after a trip. Repeated plug /
      > > > > unplug /
      > > > > > > plug procedure, at first, caused the charge to start, so I
      > > checked
      > > > > the cord
      > > > > > > and connections. Found lights on an unmarked box next to the
      > > charger
      > > > > were
      > > > > > > responding to "Power On". After sitting overnight, connected to
      > > 240v
      > > > > but
      > > > > > > not charging, unplugging the AC connection and then restoring it
      > > > > starts the
      > > > > > > charging.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > This pattern has now repeated the last three days. Return from
      > > trip,
      > > > > won't
      > > > > > > charge; leave connected overnight, no charge; unplug the power
      > > > > source in
      > > > > > > the morning, then restore it, and charge begins.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On that unmarked light box when it is connected to power but
      > > > > refusing to
      > > > > > > charge, there is one red light "On" and the yellow light is
      > > > > flashing.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what all this means?
      > > > > > > Ray, in Santa Rosa
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > >
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    • Raymond
      Thank you, Josh. I understand the charging profile, but didn t know the stages were called by these names. l m going to put labels on those red lights!Until
      Message 34 of 34 , Jul 7, 2013
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        Thank you, Josh. I understand the charging profile, but didn't know the
        stages were called by these names. l'm going to put labels on those red
        lights!Until a better idea comes along, I'm proceeding on the theory
        that a temperature sensor is telling the charger not to charge until the
        batteries cool down after a trip. On a very hot day this takes about
        four hours; on a nice summer day like this one, one and a half to two
        hours will do the trick.However, it won't start charging when plugged in
        to 240v; I have to unplug it, and then plug it in again and it fires
        right up!As the evidence accumulates I'm closing in on the problem, I
        think.Ray
        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Josh Anzicek wrote:
        >
        > Good day,
        >
        > This is a very common lead acid charge profile. Most solar charge
        > controllers also follow the same process.
        >
        > From
        > http://www.chargingchargers.com/tutorials/charging.html
        >
        > Three Stage Battery Charging
        >
        > The *BULK* stage involves about 80% of the recharge, wherein the
        charger
        > current is held constant (in a constant current charger), and voltage
        > increases. The properly sized charger will give the battery as much
        current
        > as it will accept up to charger capacity (25% of battery capacity in
        amp
        > hours), and not raise a wet battery over 125┬░ F, or an AGM or GEL
        (valve
        > regulated) battery over 100┬░ F.
        >
        > The *ABSORPTION* stage (the remaining 20%, approximately) has the
        charger
        > holding the voltage at the charger's absorption voltage (between 14.1
        VDC
        > and 14.8 VDC, depending on charger set points) and decreasing the
        current
        > until the battery is fully charged. Some charger manufacturers call
        this
        > absorption stage an equalization stage. We don't agree with this use
        of the
        > term. If the battery won't hold a charge, or the current does not drop
        > after the expected recharge time, the battery may have some permanent
        > sulphation.
        >
        > The *FLOAT* stage is where the charge voltage is reduced to between
        13.0
        > VDC and 13.8 VDC and held constant, while the current is reduced to
        less
        > than 1% of battery capacity. This mode can be used to maintain a fully
        > charged battery indefinitely.
        >
        > I hope this helps, best regards,
        >
        > Josh
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Raymond rmalden_2000@... wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks, "EV".Can you explain the terms "Bulk charging" and
        "Absorption
        > > charge"?Ray
        > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "EV" wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > GREEN LED =CHARGE COMPLETE/FLOAT
        > > >
        > > > YELLOW LED = CHARGER FAULT
        > > >
        > > > 1 ST RED (TOP)= CHARGER BULK CHARGING
        > > >
        > > > 2 ND RED =ABSORBTION CHARGE
        > > >
        > > > 3 RED = NEVER SEEN IT ON MAY NOT BE USED
        > > >
        > > > ----------------------------------------
        > > > From: "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
        > > > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 4:15 PM
        > > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger puzzle
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Is there a drawing or an explanation of the lights that are
        associated
        > > with the battery charger on my 1998 Force? The box has yellow,
        green,
        > > and red lights of which only one -- the green -- offers any clue of
        its
        > > meaning.
        > > > A quick search of the group files did not turn up anything.
        > > > The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems that the
        > > heating of my batteries in use is preventing recharge until after
        they
        > > cool down. So I'm on the trail of temperature sensors. Even so, they
        are
        > > installed for a purpose, so more research may be needed before
        assuming
        > > that it is the sensor which is at fault.
        > > >
        > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond" rmalden_2000@
        wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Jim: Thanks for the suggestion. If it is a temperature sensor,
        can
        > > you
        > > > > tell me how to find out? Or where to look? Or what to
        measure?Ray
        > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "jwolfe@" wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > >2a. Re: Charger puzzle
        > > > > > > Posted by: "Raymond" xxxxxxxxx
        > > > > > > Date: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am ((PDT))
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >Okay. Back to your previous suggestion. I'll go inside and
        look,
        > > > > and
        > > > > > >compare with your pictures.
        > > > > > >Thanks to all who have tried to help. Incidentally, I'm
        getting
        > > > > along
        > > > > > >just fine by waiting four hours to start the charge. Strange!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > I haven't been watching this thread too closely but I'm
        wondering
        > > if
        > > > > it's
        > > > > > not a temperature sensor that's bad.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Good luck,
        > > > > > Jim - in the Valley of the SUN
        > > > > > www.evalbum.com/1703
        > > > > >
        > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
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